FW: To All My Valued Employees, (ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE)

[stuball]

Originally Posted by Leland

The US still has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Almost every country has tiered tax rates. Why? Because the poor can't afford to live already, adding taxes would simply push them farther into the hole.

The US has it so good. At every earnings tier, Europeans are certainly paying much more than their American counter-parts in income taxes. Furthermore, sales taxes laid on top of that drive prices even higher (it's cheaper to buy a new Porsche or BMW in the US than in Germany!). In China, someone making $100k/year will see an income tax rate between 50% to 60% per year (as opposed to the US which is 25%). Additionally, the cost on anything imported (like, say a Toyota) is going to be doubled by duties.

Now, on the other hand, I predict we are going to see much higher taxes in the future. The reckless spending by recent Republican presidents has pushed our debt so far over the edge that it is going to be nearly impossible to come back. Reagan & the Bushes' spending went on the assumption that the US was always going to be on top and nothing else would change. Unfortunately, over the past 30 years, the rest of the world has been more responsible and is becoming much more affluent. So, like Alan said, we're going to have to share more of what is available. I just can't believe that so many people bought the BS that the economy could continue to grow fueled only by further debt. Obama has inherited a mess, and while his basic idea for massive infrastructure improvements is great, I think it's a few decades too late.

As Obama's infrastructure projects come and as Reagan's debt starts to come due in the next few years, I see the USA just taking the easy way out with more debt & more money printing. Eventually, it won't be worth the fabric it's printed on.

I agree with you 100%. And with the Freedom of Information Act, it certainly shouldn't be hard to find out how much each federal administration spent during their term of office, and what they spent the taxpayer's money on.

Stuball

[Ademadude1960]

Originally Posted by ThirdHorseman

I do envy you to a certain extent. Not because of what material items you've been able to buy or what you make every year, but because of the family business aspect.

My parents don't own their own business, nor do they pride themselves on networking, knowing people, etc. The only way I've EVER been able to get an internship or a job is simply by responding to a want ad, sending my resume, being polite, and hoping that someone gives me the chance. it just so happens that every job (except for one) I've applied for and received an interview...I landed it.

Still, I never really had the benefit of knowing the person that ran the business, knowing someone that could put in a good word for me...I always had to be a stranger first, and then a potential employee second. You never have to deal with this when you're in a family business. Sure, you have to prove that you truly want to work, but it's not really the same as "cold calling."

BTW, this opinion has nothing to do with the quality of a person's work, their work ethic, etc. I'm sure you and many other sons/daughters have truly earned the success reaped from a good family business. It's just easier sometimes when "the business" knows you, and knows your good character from the get-go.

Just be appreciative of the value of your father. I think sometimes people that have the fortune of growing up with the family business don't always realize what it's like to have to "present" yourself over and over and over again to a new entity.... I'm always just a sheet of paper on the hiring manager's desk in the beginning.

Yes..believe me i have heard it many times before and im reminded of it by others on a weekly basis. I worked several other jobs while learning about the company because when i first started working for my father, i was barely making anything. I was going to school full time, working for him as well as UPS and Papa Johns for well over a year. That year i had no life what so ever as well as little sleep. I ended up having a few health problems that year from lack of sleep and malnutrition. When i first started out, he wouldn't let me work for him so i had to go and do the slave labor garbage work just to show him i was serious. It took almost 8 months to convince him i was capable of doing this and wanted to learn the business. Now i am in charge of half the company and we have a great reputation in NC for quality craftsmanship as well as great cliental relationships.

[SOSHeloPilot]

Originally Posted by stuball

I agree with you 100%. And with the Freedom of Information Act, it certainly shouldn't be hard to find out how much each federal administration spent during their term of office, and what they spent the taxpayer's money on.

Stuball

I actually have some charts on this info. from the GAO and other sources on republican vs democrat spending .. and who spent what.
I will have to look for it.

I started to post some of this info. months ago ... but did not want to start a "flame war" or appear to be a "flame war baiter".

The republicans (and I am one) are much bigger spenders than I thought.
Heavy spending ... coupled with tax cuts .... is like us ... charging on our credit cards while we are getting a pay cut .... the numbers just do not work.

That is one good reason that I am not ... ... "party loyal" aka "koolaid drinker" ... ... and I always try to vote for the person and not the party.

SOS

PS ... Heavy spending (by either party) ... by just printing money ... without raising taxes ... can lead to the biggest hidden tax of all ... inflation.
And this hidden tax (inflation) can be much worse than a controlled tax increase and inflation can be uncontrollable for a long time too.

IMHO ... the best way for our federal govt is .... "pay as you go" (for most things) ... that way, the political leaders are forced to show to the tax payers ... what their spending habits are doing ... in a much faster time frame. Instead of leaving this spending as a "time bomb" for future administrations (both parties do this too).

It appears that many on here have excellent work ethic, are good savers and don't like taxes.

However ... if we spend , as a country, for whatever reason, we have to pay for it one way ot another .... either with tax increases or inflation .....
..... Pick your poison ....

The original post was a ... "warm and fuzzy letter" ... but taxes should be based on spending pattern by our leaders.

.

[Leland]

Originally Posted by scottnmos

You have got to be kidding me! You blame the republicans for this mess? This started with the Clintons and was perpetuated by a liberal led democratic congress. I dont agree with the bailout at all. Look at the situation with Bank of America. They held their hands out for the tune of 25B in their merger with Merrel.....now they say it isnt enough and want 15B more. F-that. 1 dollar is too much if you ask me. Let them fail. Now the O'Bama led koolaid clan gets the other 350B released before ANY monitoring programs are put into place to see how the money is spent and they propose almost 1 TRILLION dollars more in spending under the guise of the NEW DEAL? Here is a little known fact....do some research on the NEW DEAL and youll think it was really a RAW DEAL......bad news all around.....they can go ahead and bankrupt my grandchildren......watch out.....taxes here they come. Bush was not perfect but this is absolute crap!

Ummm, maybe you should do some research before posting an angry response like this. Try starting with a search for US deficit spending. You will find that Clinton balanced the budget and that Reagan & Bush Jr have racked up so much debt that our children are going to be working for pennies an hour to make toys for Chinese children.

By the way, your buddy Bush was ALL FOR the $700bn bailout. Did his best to push it through so as not to have the bad taste of the economic collapse at the tail end of his presidency. Just finished working his tail off so that the last $350bn would be ready as soon as possible. By the way, he rushed through the money for the automakers as well. Oh yea, he sent billions to the airlines bailing them out. So much for Republican capitalism.

Bush has spent hundreds of billions of dollars rebuilding IRAQ's infrastructure while New Orleans drowned & an interstate bridge collapsed in Minnesota. Good job. At least Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure HERE IN THE USA and not in some country half-way around the world; who's piling up their own oil revenues in the billions while American taxpayers pay for their roads, airports, cities & oil pipelines.

Err, uh, Clinton worked for 6 years with a Republican majority in Congress. It would be duly noted that the Financial Modernization Act was passed with the full blessing of our Republican Reps & Senators--many of whom pushed very hard for the bill (go figure they have a lot of friends in the financial services industry). By the way, these are the deregulations that largely helped to bring us the current financial meltdown.

One thing I agree with you about: I say we let all of these effing banks, airlines, automakers go bankrupt. These bailouts amount to little more than politcal fat cats helping out their industrial fat cat buddies. Let's let some real capitalism back into this country. The Republicans are no more capitalist than Democrats--they're all bad for the country. Sure, it will be hard for a couple of years, but we'll all be better off farther down the road.

Even if Obama does nothing, our taxes are going to have to go up for the debt that Reagan & the Bushes have left us. We're leveraged to our eyeballs, mostly to the Middle East & China, thanks to them. That money is coming do, and we're going to have to pay it back......

[scottnmos]

I blame Bush for a lot. I admire the man, but I do not agree with him. I am and always will be against any type of bailout and handout what-so-ever. But blaming Bush for the collapse of the bridge (hmmm is that a White House issue or a local one) and the massive amounts of people actually living BELOW sea level...... dont think so. If you actually live in an area below sea level, then after REPEATEDLY warned to leave in the face of a massive hurricane, then get rescued (most likely by friends of mine that risked their lives) only to turn around and blame the government for your problems.....doesnt fly with me. I have had it with lack of personal responsibility. It is always someone else who is at fault. Never me. Hey I cant verify my income and dont have a social security number, I just bought a million dollar house, and now I cant afford the payments that are not interest only......please Uncle Sam....HELP ME!
A little education can go a long way. I remember reading an article a few weeks back about people whining that they had to have good credit, 2 years of solid work history, and 15 to 20% down on a home. WOW......that is the way it was before the ARM explosion and how it should have been all along. But who do we blame? The banks and the lenders. How about the guy who got the loan. Look at who de-regulated the banks. Republicans are not all to blame, nor are democrats. I dont care who did it, it was irresponsible. Many lenders were mandated to give loans to people who usually were not qualified for home ownership. Then when the ship sinks.... they all point the finger. Congress placed these requirements on the lenders, whether they be republican or democrat I dont care....... they are to blame for this and a trillion dollars more in govt spending to clean up their mistakes are not the answer.

Once we get our feet under ourselves and start taking responsibility for our actions, will this nation recover. Until then we will all argue and point the finger. While they are busy blaming everyone else, I'll be buying foreclosed homes at a cut rate and making a fortune. Let them sort out that crap.

[Highwaylizard]

Originally Posted by scottnmos

I blame Bush for a lot. I admire the man, but I do not agree with him. I am and always will be against any type of bailout and handout what-so-ever. But blaming Bush for the collapse of the bridge (hmmm is that a White House issue or a local one) and the massive amounts of people actually living BELOW sea level...... dont think so. If you actually live in an area below sea level, then after REPEATEDLY warned to leave in the face of a massive hurricane, then get rescued (most likely by friends of mine that risked their lives) only to turn around and blame the government for your problems.....doesnt fly with me. I have had it with lack of personal responsibility. It is always someone else who is at fault. Never me. Hey I cant verify my income and dont have a social security number, I just bought a million dollar house, and now I cant afford the payments that are not interest only......please Uncle Sam....HELP ME!
A little education can go a long way. I remember reading an article a few weeks back about people whining that they had to have good credit, 2 years of solid work history, and 15 to 20% down on a home. WOW......that is the way it was before the ARM explosion and how it should have been all along. But who do we blame? The banks and the lenders. How about the guy who got the loan. Look at who de-regulated the banks. Republicans are not all to blame, nor are democrats. I dont care who did it, it was irresponsible. Many lenders were mandated to give loans to people who usually were not qualified for home ownership. Then when the ship sinks.... they all point the finger. Congress placed these requirements on the lenders, whether they be republican or democrat I dont care....... they are to blame for this and a trillion dollars more in govt spending to clean up their mistakes are not the answer.

Once we get our feet under ourselves and start taking responsibility for our actions, will this nation recover. Until then we will all argue and point the finger. While they are busy blaming everyone else, I'll be buying foreclosed homes at a cut rate and making a fortune. Let them sort out that crap.

That's it. I have had it. I am going to get my aluminum hat and sit in a copper shielded room. You are creeping me out by reading my thoughts and publishing them here.

Seriously, it scares me how much alike we think. Thanks again for hitting the nail square on the head. I think that a lot of the time some of what I read is so far off base that I just do not even think it is worth dignifying with a response. I am glad you have not gotten to that point yet.

Keep on keepin' on.

[TundraBay]

One main reason to HAVE a government is for infrastructure that we all need and use.

Bridges.

Levees.

Roads.

Hospitals.

Schools.

What do Bush & Co. do? Head off to fight a pointless war, costing hundreds of billions of dollars and American lives, alienating the rest of the world in the process, and then saying "The terrorists are attacking us because they hate our way of life".

I don't think they give a sh!t about our way of life. But they probably don't like it when we have military bases on their land. . .

The warnings of inadequate protection of low-lying land were hard to miss. But somehow getting involved in Iraq was bigger priority. Failing infrastructure, especially on the interstate highway system is a federal responsibility.

Anyway, I guess we're getting off topic.

On topic, I think it's more important to ask "Am I happy where I am?" than "Is there someone who's a lazy bum who I'm supporting with my hard earned money?"

Beyond infrastructure, and pointless wars, the primary thing our taxes buy us is a relative social stability; this stability suffers when people are starving, or when enough people go homeless, or when education is no longer available. It may be expensive, but it's a small price to pay, when you consider the alternatives.

[TundraBay]

P.S. I agree that the bail out was ill advised. But it is consistent with the adage: remember who your friends are.

[scottnmos]

Originally Posted by TundraBay

One main reason to HAVE a government is for infrastructure that we all need and use.

Bridges.

Levees.

Roads.

Hospitals.

Schools.

What do Bush & Co. do? Head off to fight a pointless war, costing hundreds of billions of dollars and American lives, alienating the rest of the world in the process, and then saying "The terrorists are attacking us because they hate our way of life".

I don't think they give a sh!t about our way of life. But they probably don't like it when we have military bases on their land. . .

The warnings of inadequate protection of low-lying land were hard to miss. But somehow getting involved in Iraq was bigger priority. Failing infrastructure, especially on the interstate highway system is a federal responsibility.

Anyway, I guess we're getting off topic.

On topic, I think it's more important to ask "Am I happy where I am?" than "Is there someone who's a lazy bum who I'm supporting with my hard earned money?"

Beyond infrastructure, and pointless wars, the primary thing our taxes buy us is a relative social stability; this stability suffers when people are starving, or when enough people go homeless, or when education is no longer available. It may be expensive, but it's a small price to pay, when you consider the alternatives.

I agree with you about the infrastructure..... but thats about it. In the attempt to keep this on topic I will leave the pointless war with two points. 1- If you have ever been there you would slap yourself for saying its pointless. 2- Read a book by General Sada, Iraq's #2 official in the Air force. Describes removing passenger seats in civilian aircraft to move WMD's to Syria. Not to mention the entire UN council was owned by the Oil For Food program.

Our country needs to be taken care of. I completely agree. The lack of education and experience of sheeple who sit and watch CNN all day then say its a pointless war piss me off to no extent. Anyone who comments on the war who has never been there or talked to the people there are speculation at best. I have been to palaces that have giant lakes surrounding them in the middle of the desert. Filled with water that was supposed to go to Iraqi troops. Who died of dehydration instead.

The government is here to protect the people, including those who are too stupid to protect themselves. I dont care about how the world views the United States. This isnt a popularity contest. This is the systematic removal of people bred to hate us.

Education is exactly what we need. In massive amounts. Our education system is failing and we are falling off the world stage. Education is most to blame for our problems. Its amazing how ignorance can bring down the most powerful of people......

[Hickleberry]

Originally Posted by scottnmos

I agree with you about the infrastructure..... but thats about it. In the attempt to keep this on topic I will leave the pointless war with two points. 1- If you have ever been there you would slap yourself for saying its pointless. 2- Read a book by General Sada, Iraq's #2 official in the Air force. Describes removing passenger seats in civilian aircraft to move WMD's to Syria. Not to mention the entire UN council was owned by the Oil For Food program.

Our country needs to be taken care of. I completely agree. The lack of education and experience of sheeple who sit and watch CNN all day then say its a pointless war piss me off to no extent. Anyone who comments on the war who has never been there or talked to the people there are speculation at best. I have been to palaces that have giant lakes surrounding them in the middle of the desert. Filled with water that was supposed to go to Iraqi troops. Who died of dehydration instead.

The government is here to protect the people, including those who are too stupid to protect themselves. I dont care about how the world views the United States. This isnt a popularity contest. This is the systematic removal of people bred to hate us.

Education is exactly what we need. In massive amounts. Our education system is failing and we are falling off the world stage. Education is most to blame for our problems. Its amazing how ignorance can bring down the most powerful of people......

Its not up to the American's to fight wars on behalf of other countries citizens. Its not worth losing American lives for a civil war. If the Iraqi people didn't want to stand up for themselves, then they got what they deserved, a ruthless dictator.

On that topic, there's a big difference between values, in much of the world a strong dictator you know compared to a weak elected official you don't know, its preferable to have the strong one.

In regard to you respecting W, I don't understand that at all, Bush Sr, maybe, but W was an idiot. He was a poor business man, he skipped out on his pilot duties, but he was lucky to have a father who had a brain.

Consider how short sighted he was on the Afghanistan invasion, he thought the war there was over and turned his attention to Iraq, now American troops are being sent back to Afghanistan. By my count, that's two mistakes.

It brings to mind one of my favorite Family Guy episodes

YouTube - Family Guy - Visiting Ground Zero

[stuball]

Originally Posted by Tundra_Hick

It brings to mind one of my favorite Family Guy episodes

YouTube - Family Guy - Visiting Ground Zero

That sounds like a pretty good analogy.

Stuball

[scottnmos]

That video is fantastic...... Why is Brian the sole source of wisdom in that family? LOL I love family guy.

[Leland]

Originally Posted by scottnmos

I blame Bush for a lot. I admire the man, but I do not agree with him. I am and always will be against any type of bailout and handout what-so-ever. But blaming Bush for the collapse of the bridge (hmmm is that a White House issue or a local one) and the massive amounts of people actually living BELOW sea level...... dont think so. If you actually live in an area below sea level, then after REPEATEDLY warned to leave in the face of a massive hurricane, then get rescued (most likely by friends of mine that risked their lives) only to turn around and blame the government for your problems.....doesnt fly with me. I have had it with lack of personal responsibility. It is always someone else who is at fault. Never me. Hey I cant verify my income and dont have a social security number, I just bought a million dollar house, and now I cant afford the payments that are not interest only......please Uncle Sam....HELP ME!
A little education can go a long way. I remember reading an article a few weeks back about people whining that they had to have good credit, 2 years of solid work history, and 15 to 20% down on a home. WOW......that is the way it was before the ARM explosion and how it should have been all along. But who do we blame? The banks and the lenders. How about the guy who got the loan. Look at who de-regulated the banks. Republicans are not all to blame, nor are democrats. I dont care who did it, it was irresponsible. Many lenders were mandated to give loans to people who usually were not qualified for home ownership. Then when the ship sinks.... they all point the finger. Congress placed these requirements on the lenders, whether they be republican or democrat I dont care....... they are to blame for this and a trillion dollars more in govt spending to clean up their mistakes are not the answer.

Once we get our feet under ourselves and start taking responsibility for our actions, will this nation recover. Until then we will all argue and point the finger. While they are busy blaming everyone else, I'll be buying foreclosed homes at a cut rate and making a fortune. Let them sort out that crap.

I basically agree with you. I don't blame Bush for a bridge collapse, but I do blame he and his administration for pouring hundreds of billions into Iraq while our infrastructure here crumbles. The I35 bridge is a federal road. Furthermore, civil engineers have been warning us for years that there are potentially hundreds of dangerous bridges like that across the country. Concerning New Orleans....if the tiny nation of the Netherlands can build extensive levee systems that can hold back the turbulent North Sea, why is the greatest nation in the world watching a major city drown?

I also agree that both sides are to blame. Like I said, no one man can steer America into disaster.....it's taken millions. Actually, everyone (well almost everyone's) to blame for our current situation. The government's staggering debt and incompetence, the average American citizen's apparent lack of ANY understanding of basic economics and the financial industry's lack of self-assessment of risk. Some banks actually were carrying toxic risks in amounts 30 times their liquid capital!

I believe that the fact that government is bailing out all of these companies and individuals is insane. It will only reinforce this behavior. Furthermore, we're be selling our national soul, as it were, to China to do it.

I've been thinking about the original letter for a while now, and I think that while initially, I thought it was pretty good, on further consideration I think the author is an idiot. I can sympathize with the frustration of living lean and working hard to make oneself successful, only see other get handouts when times turn rough. I've worked very hard to make sure my wife & I live a rich life. I don't own my own business, but I have saved a lot of money while owning nice things, enjoyed life and traveled. I am one of a handful of people worldwide who can do what I do, and I'm one of the very best. Siemens doesn't collect $250/hr for me for no reason.

However, I wonder what you business owners think as you read further? This guy says he's surrounded himself with 14 employees who show up at 9 & don't really work until noon. Sounds to me like he's not hiring well. I would think one would want to surround themselves with people who shared some passion for what they do. What about the mantra, "hire people better than you?" Seems to me to that he is probably a control freak & micro-manager, based on his comments that he is basically working 24/7. Now,l I can sympathize. I'm pretty jaded & personally believe that 90% of human beings aren't basically competent to tie their shoes, lest do their job, but his statements lead me to believe he's surround himself with idiots.

Most fundamentally, he's holding a Sword of Damacles over the heads of his employees about an issue over which they have no control. I would totally respect him if he told them to work harder, more hours, work more efficiently, stop belly-aching or whatever. But to terrify one's employees over taxes, which they have no control and also have to pay, is just dumb. I'm sure he'll find that the result of this is that any excellent employees he has (in 14, he's got to have at least 1 or 2 that's really good) will jump ship leaving him saddled with the riff-raff.

I hope he knows that even laying on the beach, being an American citizen will mean he STILL owes taxes to Uncle Sam.

[OntheRox]

Originally Posted by scottnmos

Its amazing how ignorance can bring down the most powerful of people......

So that's all folks........

[chriswv6]

Originally Posted by Leland

Ummm, maybe you should do some research before posting an angry response like this. Try starting with a search for US deficit spending. You will find that Clinton balanced the budget and that Reagan & Bush Jr have racked up so much debt that our children are going to be working for pennies an hour to make toys for Chinese children.

By the way, your buddy Bush was ALL FOR the $700bn bailout. Did his best to push it through so as not to have the bad taste of the economic collapse at the tail end of his presidency. Just finished working his tail off so that the last $350bn would be ready as soon as possible. By the way, he rushed through the money for the automakers as well. Oh yea, he sent billions to the airlines bailing them out. So much for Republican capitalism.

Bush has spent hundreds of billions of dollars rebuilding IRAQ's infrastructure while New Orleans drowned & an interstate bridge collapsed in Minnesota. Good job. At least Obama wants to rebuild the infrastructure HERE IN THE USA and not in some country half-way around the world; who's piling up their own oil revenues in the billions while American taxpayers pay for their roads, airports, cities & oil pipelines.

Err, uh, Clinton worked for 6 years with a Republican majority in Congress. It would be duly noted that the Financial Modernization Act was passed with the full blessing of our Republican Reps & Senators--many of whom pushed very hard for the bill (go figure they have a lot of friends in the financial services industry). By the way, these are the deregulations that largely helped to bring us the current financial meltdown.

One thing I agree with you about: I say we let all of these effing banks, airlines, automakers go bankrupt. These bailouts amount to little more than politcal fat cats helping out their industrial fat cat buddies. Let's let some real capitalism back into this country. The Republicans are no more capitalist than Democrats--they're all bad for the country. Sure, it will be hard for a couple of years, but we'll all be better off farther down the road.

Even if Obama does nothing, our taxes are going to have to go up for the debt that Reagan & the Bushes have left us. We're leveraged to our eyeballs, mostly to the Middle East & China, thanks to them. That money is coming do, and we're going to have to pay it back......

Um... Didn't Clinton almost halt ALL military spending? I vaguely recall 9/11 that almost certainly was caused by some serious cutbacks by Bill and Monica. Er, ummm Hillary I mean.