At the end of 1999, as we were moving into the last year of the Clinton Administration, the amount of money our government
owed was 61.4% of our GDP; the total value of all goods and services produced in this country during that year.
By the time George Bush was through that figure had gone up by 8.8 percentage points to 70.2%. Not good. But ...
by the time Barack Obama gets his first year all wrapped up that figure will have risen another 20.2 percentage points to 90.4%!
In 2011 that figure will reach the magic 100%. At that point we owe more than the total value of our economy.
At the end of 1999, as we were moving into the last year of the Clinton Administration, the amount of money our government
owed was 61.4% of our GDP; the total value of all goods and services produced in this country during that year.
By the time George Bush was through that figure had gone up by 8.8 percentage points to 70.2%. Not good. But ...
by the time Barack Obama gets his first year all wrapped up that figure will have risen another 20.2 percentage points to 90.4%!
In 2011 that figure will reach the magic 100%. At that point we owe more than the total value of our economy.
At the end of 1999, as we were moving into the last year of the Clinton Administration, the amount of money our government
owed was 61.4% of our GDP; the total value of all goods and services produced in this country during that year.
By the time George Bush was through that figure had gone up by 8.8 percentage points to 70.2%. Not good. But ...
by the time Barack Obama gets his first year all wrapped up that figure will have risen another 20.2 percentage points to 90.4%!
In 2011 that figure will reach the magic 100%. At that point we owe more than the total value of our economy.
Obamanomics will Bankrupt the USA by 2011.
Eh, Japan's been running along at near 200% for quite some time now. Now, I'm NOT saying that I agree with that, but I think that magic 100% is going to go by like a speed bump in a rental car. I would also contend that we were thoroughly on the road to disaster LOOOOONG before Jan 2009. Also keep in mind that the GDP is a notation of the annual product. For you or me, 100% would be like being in debt equivalent to one's annual salary. I would guess that many people are in deeper than this in their house alone--even those who responsible. I am very responsible....our only debt is our mortgage, and we have about 30% equity in our home. We just refinanced to a 15-year which is about 15% of my monthly take-home, and we have about 1/2 take home in the bank (cash) and many more times in retirement. Even so, my $140k balance is about 100% of my GDP for last year--about 10% more actually.
Democratic "stimulus" spending is definitely misplaced now. The first problem is that politicians are always thinking formost about constituents and re-election. This means that they want a "right now" result for stimulus when we should be looking farther down the road. The problem is that smart grids, alternative energy, infrastructure, education don't start clearly showing their benefits for decades.
Were the Democrats to spend some efforts getting after China to allow their currency to float properly against the dollar (the Bush Administration also failed MISERABLY in this regard), our deficit could be noticably reduced simply through accont deficits. See, the yuan got pegged to the dollar right as the recession started, this means that the value of their currency has decreased with the dollar even though their economy has had double-digit growth. This drops the price of their exports (encouraging American spending) and increases the price of their imports (encourging Chinese spending to stay in China). Years ago Bush Jr. promised to go after them for their currency (which economists figured needed to halve), but backed down. I'm think that this may have to do with the fact that they basically have a monopoly on the rare earth market, and hence other countries' ability to manufacture most anything technological. We even have a bad problem that if China shuts down their rare earth exports, our ability to keep the military stocked is basically eliminated (The House is just now getting around to this even though it has been a problem for a decade or so...).
Anyway, if we forced the Chinese to properly float their currency, we would get a significant reduction in our account deficit--which was also a contributor to the current economic crisis. We should also throw a 100% duty on everything Chinese to match the 100% duty they have on everything imported. The increased tax revenue would help....
Finally, all of this forgets an increase in the national debt that was set in place by Greenspan & Reagan in 83. 2009 or 2010 will mark the first year that the treasury has to begin selling bonds to cover Social Security payouts. See, instead of saving the money (which was also promised to collect interest somehow???), the government spent it on other sh!t, so we're now going to have to BORROW money from China, the Middle East, wherever to pay the promised benefits. The only real solution is for the government to admit to seniors (and everyone else) that they have been victimized by a Ponzi scheme and that their Social Security checks are going to be reduced to match what is getting paid into the system. Of course, this would pretty much eliminate re-election, so those of us on the yonger end of the scale are going to go deeper into the hole for decades old government promises.
To sum up: We're eff'd, and you don't get to blame it all on Obama, no matter how much you want to. We've been diligently working our way into this mess for decades.
Ok guys lets not forget what the pension obligations are currently and not let the ostriches (politicans) sink their head in the sand and deny it exists...
Eh, Japan's been running along at near 200% for quite some time now. Now, I'm NOT saying that I agree with that, but I think that magic 100% is going to go by like a speed bump in a rental car. I would also contend that we were thoroughly on the road to disaster LOOOOONG before Jan 2009. Also keep in mind that the GDP is a notation of the annual product. For you or me, 100% would be like being in debt equivalent to one's annual salary. I would guess that many people are in deeper than this in their house alone--even those who responsible. I am very responsible....our only debt is our mortgage, and we have about 30% equity in our home. We just refinanced to a 15-year which is about 15% of my monthly take-home, and we have about 1/2 take home in the bank (cash) and many more times in retirement. Even so, my $140k balance is about 100% of my GDP for last year--about 10% more actually.
Democratic "stimulus" spending is definitely misplaced now. The first problem is that politicians are always thinking formost about constituents and re-election. This means that they want a "right now" result for stimulus when we should be looking farther down the road. The problem is that smart grids, alternative energy, infrastructure, education don't start clearly showing their benefits for decades.
Were the Democrats to spend some efforts getting after China to allow their currency to float properly against the dollar (the Bush Administration also failed MISERABLY in this regard), our deficit could be noticably reduced simply through accont deficits. See, the yuan got pegged to the dollar right as the recession started, this means that the value of their currency has decreased with the dollar even though their economy has had double-digit growth. This drops the price of their exports (encouraging American spending) and increases the price of their imports (encourging Chinese spending to stay in China). Years ago Bush Jr. promised to go after them for their currency (which economists figured needed to halve), but backed down. I'm think that this may have to do with the fact that they basically have a monopoly on the rare earth market, and hence other countries' ability to manufacture most anything technological. We even have a bad problem that if China shuts down their rare earth exports, our ability to keep the military stocked is basically eliminated (The House is just now getting around to this even though it has been a problem for a decade or so...).
Anyway, if we forced the Chinese to properly float their currency, we would get a significant reduction in our account deficit--which was also a contributor to the current economic crisis. We should also throw a 100% duty on everything Chinese to match the 100% duty they have on everything imported. The increased tax revenue would help....
Finally, all of this forgets an increase in the national debt that was set in place by Greenspan & Reagan in 83. 2009 or 2010 will mark the first year that the treasury has to begin selling bonds to cover Social Security payouts. See, instead of saving the money (which was also promised to collect interest somehow???), the government spent it on other sh!t, so we're now going to have to BORROW money from China, the Middle East, wherever to pay the promised benefits. The only real solution is for the government to admit to seniors (and everyone else) that they have been victimized by a Ponzi scheme and that their Social Security checks are going to be reduced to match what is getting paid into the system. Of course, this would pretty much eliminate re-election, so those of us on the yonger end of the scale are going to go deeper into the hole for decades old government promises.
To sum up: We're eff'd, and you don't get to blame it all on Obama, no matter how much you want to. We've been diligently working our way into this mess for decades.
Excellent take on the situation and it puts into perspective what this really means. On the flip side Warren Buffet wrote an article that doesn’t totally apply here but it is still relevant because it speaks to the total size of the economy. It is a little dated but I think it still applies. Squanderville versus Thriftville (Warren Buffet)
I can see how some people don’t like Obama or his methods; he always seems to be moving at break neck speeds. He is a visionary and probably the first one of his kind, healthcare comes to mind. He also inherited some disasters that he is forced to solve and I think it is easy to spin the numbers if you just look at presidential term alone. Not disagreeing just looking at from a different point of view.
Plus, I am not to sure how well the next best candidate would be in this case.
I can see how some people don’t like Obama or his methods; he always seems to be moving at break neck speeds. He is a visionary and probably the first one of his kind, healthcare comes to mind.
Obama is a Fascists and he is moving a break neck speeds to destroy this Constitutional Republic.
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Line-X over the rail
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Color matched LEER Hi-Top cap
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Obama is a Fascists and he is moving a break neck speeds to destroy this Constitutional Republic.
Fascist?
Definition: Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak.
He might be a communist, but a Fascist?
__________________
Mama's don't let your babies grow up to be Woodrow!
Obama is a Fascists and he is moving a break neck speeds to destroy this Constitutional Republic.
Fascist?! How do you figure that? It’s a democracy and more people voted for that guy; it is just something that you are going to have to deal with. That’s the risk with a democracy; things are great when they go your way, but when the tide turns…You don’t have to like it and I can see why you’re upset. But fascist he is clearly not.
Centralizing, although not the American way, might have been the only option to stave off what could have been a giant economic problem, for you, me and every single person. You could say, “well, let them all fail…”; but I don’t think this would have been a prudent course of action. Healthcare reform is another hot button issue, but again the USA is the only 1st world country that does not have some form of centralized healthcare and it is the only super power. Plus, he campaigned on the issue. I know these are not the only issues but they are probably the biggest contributor to the debt; besides the war but that existed before he showed up.
I don’t really know how much he has infringed on your constitutional rights at this point; Bush has already curtailed those. Again, I am not disagreeing with your overall thoughts on the issues just looking at it from a slightly different view point.
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Last edited by Go Flames Go; 10-22-2009 at 05:52 PM.
" The government is getting more and more deeply involved in business, even taking controlling interests in some private companies. The Obama administration is trying to "make policy" for private companies they do not control, but merely "help" with "infusions of capital," as in the recent call for salary caps for certain CEOs. So government power is growing at the expense of corporations.
But that's not socialism. Socialism rests on a firm theoretical bedrock: the abolition of private property. I haven't heard anyone this side of Barney Frank calling for any such thing. What is happening now-and Newsweek is honest enough to say so down in the body of the article-is an expansion of the state's role, an increase in public/private joint ventures and partnerships, and much more state regulation of business. Yes, it's very "European," and some of the Europeans even call it "social democracy," but it isn't.
Thunder Gray Metallic
2002 REGULAR CAB - LONG BED - 4WD - V8 - SR5
TRD / Kazuma LSD made by EATON
Bilstein HD shocks
Michelin 8 ply E series radials
JBA headers
Hellwig rear bar
Line-X over the rail
2005 tail lights
OEM Door Sill protectors
TRD Off-Road front coil springs
Color matched LEER Hi-Top cap
Wet Okole Sport Seat Covers
Tinted Windows
OEM Rubber Bed Mat
OEM All-Weather mats
OEM Towing Package with Remote Transmission Cooler
Thunder Gray Metallic
2002 REGULAR CAB - LONG BED - 4WD - V8 - SR5
TRD / Kazuma LSD made by EATON
Bilstein HD shocks
Michelin 8 ply E series radials
JBA headers
Hellwig rear bar
Line-X over the rail
2005 tail lights
OEM Door Sill protectors
TRD Off-Road front coil springs
Color matched LEER Hi-Top cap
Wet Okole Sport Seat Covers
Tinted Windows
OEM Rubber Bed Mat
OEM All-Weather mats
OEM Towing Package with Remote Transmission Cooler
The US is already killing itself with its GDP and debt interest as a % of GDP. SO forget the US, and focus on what is happening overseas as that is WHERE THE MONEY is going man, so follow that money over there and the USA is going to screw itself out of being the trade currency anyways!
I say forget the USA, and watch CHINA swallow the USA in a couple of years by passing it in GDP and not debt levels.
Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
Re: Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
Re: Gross Domestic Product (GDP)
Linear Mode
