Health Care Revolt

[H2O_MAN]

[got wake?]

@#$@%*@#$($@(!!!!!

i can't give any points to anyone that is making any sense in this thread!!!

[stevencrosbie]

Originally Posted by got wake?

@#$@%*@#$($@(!!!!!

i can't give any points to anyone that is making any sense in this thread!!!

I've given them to almost everyone in the thread who is makin sense

[Hickleberry]

Originally Posted by stevencrosbie

I've given them to almost everyone in the thread who is makin sense

Thanks for the points Stevie.

[Songdog]

It's been posted before, but worth another look.

[chuckystoy]

sniff sniff i not getting any points!! but i make perfect sense to myself!!!!

lol

chucky

[Torch]

The insurance companies donate millions of dollars to those repubs. They deny health care to people with pre-existing conditions. Some deny women on a pre-existing condition such as having had a C section delivery. The health insurance companies enjoy an anti-trust law and they PROFIT more than 30pct. Almost no other industry enjoys that kind of profit. A co-worker's mother recently was diagnosed with a very serious illness. She had paid for long term care insurance for years. She was so weak she could not care for herself and could not leave her house without assistance. Her claim was initially denied by her insurance company. Her son retained a lawyer and after several months of not paying the insurance company gave in and paid. The insurance company's tactics paid off for them. She only lived a couple of months after they agreed to pay and only under the threat of litigation.

[Songdog]

Do you think if we looked at the VA and Medicare we wouldn't find people who had been screwed over by the government run system?

[SOSHeloPilot]

.

IMO ... We do need some type on health care and/or insurance company reform. But how, I am not sure. ...

FYI ... Any time I am on the telephone with a SSA, Medicare, DVA, VARO, VAMC, banks, insurance companies or any "big box financial business' .... I record them. ...

Over the years, it has saved my azz many times ... especially when the other party had to be reminded of what they said or promised. ...

If a problem arises ... I just write a letter to them and quote date & time of call, duration of call, and both sides of the conversation and they usually get the point. ...

.

[chuckystoy]

I soo agree we need reform, but rewriting a system and taking control of it totally with such a track record of failure??? That isn't the answer.

I am sorry for the people u talked of. Health care company's need a crack to the head, but what the government is trying to pass isn't the right answer.

Why does the government prevent cross state insuring? prevents competition.
Why does the government prevent doctors from listing prices? to help hide costs and allow them to make more money.

I have a friend who is a doctor, and these are 2 things he constintly says will hlp change things more than anything else. The government, dems and repubs both have tight liped the industry for thier own profit. Want proof? The dem bill does not address either of these issues. And both would significally change things for people.

Rewrite a system, why not just expand medicare and medicade? That would save billions v/s building a new system, there are soo many better ideas that this one is rediculios.
They are loosing our taxes and they are speding it willy nilly, all do it, not just dems. The all do it. Just expand what we have, or realize that health care is not a entitlement, it's a option.

we are not borne with any healthcare.

god speed to help us out of the crap hole they are trying to dig us into

chucky

[DocWard]

Originally Posted by Torch

The insurance companies donate millions of dollars to those repubs. They deny health care to people with pre-existing conditions. Some deny women on a pre-existing condition such as having had a C section delivery. The health insurance companies enjoy an anti-trust law and they PROFIT more than 30pct. Almost no other industry enjoys that kind of profit. A co-worker's mother recently was diagnosed with a very serious illness. She had paid for long term care insurance for years. She was so weak she could not care for herself and could not leave her house without assistance. Her claim was initially denied by her insurance company. Her son retained a lawyer and after several months of not paying the insurance company gave in and paid. The insurance company's tactics paid off for them. She only lived a couple of months after they agreed to pay and only under the threat of litigation.

I have a hunch that the insurance companies donate to everyone, Democrat and Republican, because it makes for "good business."

I agree that there should be reform, such as I mentioned above, numerous health insurance companies have virtual monopolies in the states within which they operate. Changing that would be a definite change for the better, along with a number of other changes to "reform" the system.

Where did you get the 30 percent profit figure? The real figure is much lower.

Why Health Insurers Make Lousy Villains - Rick Newman (usnews.com)

Overall, the profit margin for health insurance companies was a modest 3.4 percent over the past year, according to data provided by Morningstar. That ranks 87th out of 215 industries and slightly above the median of 2.2 percent. By this measure, the most profitable industry over the past year has been beverages, with a 25.9 percent profit margin. Right behind that were healthcare real-estate trusts (firms that are basically the landlords for hospitals and healthcare facilities) and application-software (think Windows). The worst performer was copper, with a profit margin of minus 56.6 percent.
If you're wondering about Exxon, with its history of gargantuan profits, its profit margin was 9 percent over the past 12 months, according to the research firm Capital IQ. The average for the oil and gas industry overall was 10.2 percent, three times the margin in the health insurance industry. And that's nothing compared with high-fliers like Google—which had a 20.6 percent margin—and Microsoft, at 24.9 percent.

I'm no fan of the health insurance companies, and I believe, no, I know we can do better than we are. I also know that the plan working through Congress isn't the answer to the problem.

[longwoodklon]

Good points all Doc, many pointed out in the health care thread but the Canadians don't want to hear it. They have only known socialized medicine, and they like it. We have only known our current system, and we like it. They like to point out people who complain about our system as proof it's broken, but you can also find folks in Canada who are pissed about their system.

And I just wonder why now, everyone thinks the U.S. should follow all the other countries. All the other countries do it, America should too. Is this a valid justification? I don't think so. It can be taken to ridiculous extremes, lets stone women to death in America because they do it in Saudi Arabia. I can't stand this type of argument.

I think it's safe to say, most Americans DON'T want this bill. Reform, yes. A complete overhaul and more gov't meddling, no. We let them attach health care to jobs decades ago, which was a mistake. And they have the nerve to now complain about this! And want to meddle and screw it up more.

And it's scary when Pelosi tries to quiet the opposition by saying, 'only 2% will even be covered by the gov't option'. If that were the case, then we don't need it in the first place! 2%, it's a joke. Actually, it's a blatant lie. It's much higher than 2% and it is very clear that those who support this bill have an end goal of a complete single payer system. Seriously, I haven't met one person who likes this idea that is NOT for single payer system. Scary.

Another fact most people haven't heard. There have been 3 bills written by Republicans this year to address health care, so don't beleive the media when they say the Rep. don't have any idea, they are only opposed to Obama-Care. One bill I read dealt largely with tort reform. Anyone wonder why the Dems. don't like this?

/Mike

[TundraSoul]

I'll be one of the first to grumble about the state of the health care system in this country. Largely because costs have sky rocketed over the past few years especially for those small business owners and the self-employed. I had to pay over $800 a month for catastrophic insurance for the three of us and seen the premiums increase twice this year alone. We rarely visit the doctor for nothing more than a prescription, no hospital visits and we're all in good health atm.

So what I decided to do was open a health savings plan and start paying into that instead of paying the high premiums tossed to me by my insurance company. We saved some 50% month to month and now have a nice tax deductible insurance nest egg that's both earning interest and generating a return.

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by Torch

The insurance companies donate millions of dollars to those repubs. They deny health care to people with pre-existing conditions. Some deny women on a pre-existing condition such as having had a C section delivery. The health insurance companies enjoy an anti-trust law and they PROFIT more than 30pct. Almost no other industry enjoys that kind of profit. A co-worker's mother recently was diagnosed with a very serious illness. She had paid for long term care insurance for years. She was so weak she could not care for herself and could not leave her house without assistance. Her claim was initially denied by her insurance company. Her son retained a lawyer and after several months of not paying the insurance company gave in and paid. The insurance company's tactics paid off for them. She only lived a couple of months after they agreed to pay and only under the threat of litigation.

It's called lobbying and it's acceptable practice for the trial lawyers to contribute tens of millions of dollars to Democrats every election year isn't it? I just love the way the horse of progressives and nanny government proponents rides one way.

Your health insurance profit margin stats are just not correct sir. The profit margins are more like 2.2% well below law firms (30%), Apple Computers (34%), Coca Cola (23.8%) McDonalds USA (20.85%) Exxon Mobil (9.47%). The latter pays a hefty effective tax rate of 49%. Why isn't the Democratic leadership crying foul over law firms and Apple?

University of Michigan public health professor Dean G. Smith notes that; "insurance firms generally aim for profit margins in the 2 percent neighborhood."

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan was actually $144.9 million in the red last year! In 2008 Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alabama recorded a profit margin of less than half of 1%. Humana posted a third quarter profit of 4% overall. Humana irked legislators by sending out letters to seniors warning that the reforms would reduce Medicare benefits.

Please share with us the health insurance company that posted 30% profits.

In case you don't know Health insurance companies are a for profit entity unlike Medicare, Social Security, USPS and Amtrak. The government does not answer to shareholders so there is no incentive to operate for profit. A bad year. No problem, stick it to the taxpayer. Insurance companies have to turn a profit first and foremost to cover claims. Insurance is all about actuarials. It logically follows that the entitlement mob will be whining about equity in automobile and life insurance next.

Nancy and Harry talk a good game about being in favor of competition but in reality they are anti competition.

Fact: The government prohibits insurance companies from engaging in interstate competition.
Fact: The government also dictates what insurance companies cover.
Fact: The government also prevents insurance from offering a no frills policy to those with limited resources.

Then how can it be that the evil insurance companies are desirous of squelching competition?

By the way, annual Medicare fraud amounts to $60 billion and annual profits for the top ten insurance companies was $8 billion. Therefore claims that government run health care is cheaper is an outrageous projection.

The following information gleaned by BigGovernment.com proves the blatant scorn house leadership has for the taxpayer in regard to healthcare.

Section 2531, entitled "Medical Liability Alternatives," establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But]...... a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys' fees or imposes caps on damages.

This protects the trial lawyers contingency fees and is a payoff to trial lawyers for their millions in contributions to Democratic election coffers. So much for tort reform.

And on top of all this Chuckie Schumer has his sights set on removing antitrust exemptions for the insurance industry, specifically the McCarran-Ferguson exemption which grants regulatory control of the industry to the individual states. If this came to pass states would relinquish oversight back to the feds. Anyone who believes that this is not about control is living in Lewis Carroll land.

What a let down! A president that promised transparency and bipartisanship has delivered deception and arrogance.

[Tankerhank]

Originally Posted by Hickleberry

Its all conjecture at this point. I suppose some facts wouldn't help, like, the fact that Universal Health care Systems worldwide are less expensive than the current American system. Now couple that with the fact that not all Americans have health care, and it really starts too look lopsided.

Not all Americans have life insurance either so I guess that means we need to tax the masses that work so that those that don't can be given it.

A man that given up some freedoms for security gets neither...