Too funny - a nameless friend of mine - the one with the Masters in Finite Element Analysis (masters in engineering degree, microscopic analysis of what happens to steel, other metals when under load, shock stress, etc) was working for a large automobile manufacturer.
His work centered on developing better cylinder head bolts - able to hold torque better, don't snap under stress load, etc.
HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT A CYLINDER HEAD WAS - admitted that to me! Just did the analysis, presented the results. Hopefully someone was able to tie his work back to the automobile!!!! Scary!
Hublar - some of the smartest, most creative and productive people I've known never went to University or College - they CHOSE not to go. They felt it was a waste of their time.
P
It's kinda' "balls-zee" for Toyota to make such a claim IMHO, regarding it's plant workers, when THEY'RE the ones who "CHOSE" the areas to erect the 2 plants, which were mentioned in the editorial. Not to mention... that it's an outright insult!! Had they made this claim, while searching for potential sites here in the states, then their statements "might" have lent themselves, to a little more credibility. As it stands though... I see these comments as nothing more, than a COP-OUT on Toyota's part!
IMHO, what Toyota was actually "looking" for, when they chose the deep south, for the 2 plants mentioned, was LABOR COST... PERIOD! As most of us already know, especially those of us here "in" the south (self included), is that... better than 50% of the blue-collar workforce, is now comprised of an immigrant sect. Most companies as well as state municipalities, will hire an immigrant worker, in a New York minute, because they'll work for "HALF" what most Americans would. Why can they do that? Well, most immigrant workers don't have to "pay" the kind of taxes "we" have to pay! Some "do", but a WHOLE LOT... "don't"! IMHO, I kinda' think that's "why" the unemployment rate is in the shape it's in at present. I won't take those comments ANY further. Anyway, in these large corporations' minds, their saving themselves a $hit-pot full of money, by hiring workers who'll do the same job for less. It's that almighty BOTTOM LINE thing!
These corporations (including Toyota) soon begin to realize, that a language barrier (in some cases, not all) is present and it beings to impair the company’s ability to be productive, thus these companies have to implement "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers and that probably is just the beginning! There are probably bi-lingual employees that have to hired at some point, or worse, a postion created for an "interpreter", just to help with the communications gap! And so, the list of "growing" expendatures... goes on and on. It's a vicious cycle, which large corporations (like Toyota) have helped create here in America and the fact is... THEY HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME, BUT THEIR-DAMN-SELVES. As I said in the beginning, I have to think, that the comments made by Toyota, are nothing more than a simple "COP-OUT"!! Since there's ALWAYS been a "stigma" (if you will) attached to those of us here in the south as being poor, dumb, and illiterate, as well as barefoot; Toyota chose to use that, as an "excuse" to complain about their OWN shortcomings... .
I think Toyota better accept their responsibilities... QUICKLY... before they end up in the same shape, which GM is in right now!
Just my 2 cents worth... .
__________________ 2004 SR5 Double Cab 4x4 w/TRD Pkg. Mods to Date:
16" 5 Spoke Brawn Enkei Wheels, Keyless Entry, Line-X Bed Liner, Challenger Running Boards, Husky Floor Liners, Bug Flector II (painted to match), Colegan Bra, Borla Dual (Side-Exit) Exhaust System, 2" Wheeler's Coil Lift, TRD Add-A-Leafs Mods to Come:
265/75/16 BFG A/T's, Possible Mods:
Seat Covers, 3M Clear Bra (hopefully... just cost so friggin' much!)
I am not a college graduate, but I do not consider myself stupid either. I am from Birmingham, Alabama and currently live in south Alabama. I work at a nuclear plant there. I am a licensed nuclear plant operator which is a program administered by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It is an 18 month course which flunks out both the people who came up through the ranks and many more engineers than people that came up through the ranks like me. Coming from an industrial back ground in the deep south, I have a different view entirely. I believe it has nothing to do with your education level, but rather the fact theat there are many young people that were not raised on a farm or ever put a wrench to a car. We have a hard time finding people who know what basic tools are. I'm talking wrenches, pipe wrenches, phillips head screwdrivers and so on. Farm kids had to work on tractors and all sorts of farm implements and usually do well in our training programs. People who worked on their own cars and took shop type classes do well in our programs. People who may be very bright but have never touched a tool do not do well. We had one trainee who didn't know the difference between a pump and a motor. So I put it to you that it may not be a lack of education, but rather a lack of hands on experience. The college bound kids do not want to even think about doing something as disgusting as manual labor. The people that are not college bound just don't have the experience with tools and such. Too many video games.
Just my 2 cents.
Hub
Then I guess I am the best of both worlds. I am a college grad and I can do whatever it takes and run any tool I get my hands on. I build desert trucks (Welding and fab), do body work, do engine work, house work and still look PRETTY for the office work. I would rather do it myself then pay somebody to do it. But I see where you are coming from. Many in the office have degrees and could not pick a screwdriver out of a line up. I actually had one guy have me look at his car because it was driving funny and making a clicking noise. It was a 1/2 inch bolt stuck in his FLAT tire. He could not even figure out he had a flat.
__________________ '05 Tundra DC TRD 2 WHL: The TOW truck, Spectra Mica Blue, with Kenwood H/U, Kenwood Amp and crossover. Infinity 6010cs, 10" Rockford SUB, 6 disc CD Changer mounted in Center console, SWI-X to retain steering wheel controls, 7" TV with DVD. Tinted Windows, Three chamber Flowmaster, Painted front chrome strip
1994 Toy: The TOY Standard cab, Long travel front pulling13" w/Double fox w/Res, Deaver rear at 18" w/Single 2.5 18" fox w/Res., full glass, Bumper to Bumper cage, Gusseted frame, PRP seats, Crow harnesses, Custom steering(All Heims & Chromoly), Grant steering wheel, Smoothest ride around. OH by the way only 70,000 miles.
These corporations (including Toyota) soon begin to realize, that a language barrier (in some cases, not all) is present and it beings to impair the company’s ability to be productive, thus these companies have to implement "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers and that probably is just the beginning! There are probably bi-lingual employees that have to hired at some point, or worse, a postion created for an "interpreter", just to help with the communications gap! And so, the list of "growing" expendatures... goes on and on. It's a vicious cycle, which large corporations (like Toyota) have helped create here in America and the fact is... THEY HAVE NO ONE TO BLAME, BUT THEIR-DAMN-SELVES. As I said in the beginning, I have to think, that the comments made by Toyota, are nothing more than a simple "COP-OUT"!! Since there's ALWAYS been a "stigma" (if you will) attached to those of us here in the south as being poor, dumb, and illiterate, as well as barefoot; Toyota chose to use that, as an "excuse" to complain about their OWN shortcomings... .
I think Toyota better accept their responsibilities... QUICKLY... before they end up in the same shape, which GM is in right now!
Just my 2 cents worth... .
I was applying for a City job and they said straight out "If you are not bi-lingual we won't even look at you" This job consisted of talking with other city offices and city personel NO public. WTF. City employees better be speaking english or at least KNOW how.
__________________ '05 Tundra DC TRD 2 WHL: The TOW truck, Spectra Mica Blue, with Kenwood H/U, Kenwood Amp and crossover. Infinity 6010cs, 10" Rockford SUB, 6 disc CD Changer mounted in Center console, SWI-X to retain steering wheel controls, 7" TV with DVD. Tinted Windows, Three chamber Flowmaster, Painted front chrome strip
1994 Toy: The TOY Standard cab, Long travel front pulling13" w/Double fox w/Res, Deaver rear at 18" w/Single 2.5 18" fox w/Res., full glass, Bumper to Bumper cage, Gusseted frame, PRP seats, Crow harnesses, Custom steering(All Heims & Chromoly), Grant steering wheel, Smoothest ride around. OH by the way only 70,000 miles.
He said Nissan and Honda have encountered difficulties getting new plants up to full production in recent years in Mississippi and Alabama due to an untrained - and often illiterate - workforce. In Alabama, trainers had to use "pictorials" to teach some illiterate workers how to use high-tech plant equipment.
Sad isn't it? But what do you expect from a country that has an illiterate born-again frat boy as president?
[QUOTE=nucleus]Sad isn't it? But what do you expect from a country that has an illiterate born-again frat boy as president?[/QUOT
?????????????---Whats Bush got to do with this---??????? The thing I know is OUTSOURCING and DOWNSIZING---Moving jobs out of this country ---has been going on a LOT LONGER than he has been President. Truth is --IMO --there is NOBODY Demo or Rep in Washington that gives a s--t about the working people in this country. You hear about the ECONOMY being good---stocks up. Maybe but --thats not always a good thing for the working people. Good chance that the stock is up because of MAJOR layoffs and DOWNSIZING in that company. The bottom line is all that matters. If you are MIDDLE CLASS you are an indangered species.
Another thing while im ranting. Homeland security is a JOKE. A BIG joke. You will never have ANY security until the borders of this country are controlled. Chances are the bad people of this world have already walked across the southern border. Im going to go back to sleep now---Buzz
Buzzard,
I just noticed that you say the President has nothing to do with the workforce problem, then complain about Homeland Security not securing the border, which he has everything to do with.
I'll take Clinton over Bush any day. Who doesn't like a BJ once in a while? Seriously, Clinton lied to an investigator on a witch hunt, but Bush lied to me.
I agree that this is about the bottom line for Toyota. First, for healthcare, which is skyrocketing; and second, there's probably a certain density of factories that they want to avoid because they will have to compete for workers by increasing pay. Maybe they think there are already too many plants in the Southern US??
Buzzard,
I just noticed that you say the President has nothing to do with the workforce problem, then complain about Homeland Security not securing the border, which he has everything to do with.
Larry
I AGREE 100% --Bush is dropping the ball on the border issue. I DISAGREE about clinton. I think he is the sorriest pc of trash that ever walked into Washington. I would vote for for that old yellow cat walking in front of my house right now before I would vote for clinton. Mr or mrs. Like I said before---if your the middle class---working man -you have nobody. The working man-middle class is on the way down in this country and we have NOBODY to help us. The demo steal it and put it in their pockets--the Rep steal it give it to the money man. I know it so much better here than any place in the world------but it changing fast. ---Buzz
I guess you didn’t see Clinton on TV when he pointed his finger at the camera (us) and said “I did not have sexual relations with her”
He is also the one that signed the NAFTA bill. It doesn’t really matter who was President I would guess any one of them would have.
The president is a figure head no matter what party he is.
Our troubles stem from Congress because they make the laws and pass the bills.
If that is true as I believe it is, then the blame comes down to the American people who keep voting some of these jerks in. Some of these people have been Congress over 40 years and what do they have to show for it other than fat wallets. When enough people get fed up things will change, that is, unless it’s too late.
Being twenty would be nice again but I honestly feel bad for those who are because this country is going to be a second rate power in 10-15 years.
The leaders of the world are going to have everyone make the same wages so it’s truly a World Economy, we go down like most of Europe and the third world countries go up.
When China finishes building its blue water navy we can quit worrying about what is crossing our southern border and worry about the west coast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laugs1
Buzzard,
I just noticed that you say the President has nothing to do with the workforce problem, then complain about Homeland Security not securing the border, which he has everything to do with.
I'll take Clinton over Bush any day. Who doesn't like a BJ once in a while? Seriously, Clinton lied to an investigator on a witch hunt, but Bush lied to me.
I agree that this is about the bottom line for Toyota. First, for healthcare, which is skyrocketing; and second, there's probably a certain density of factories that they want to avoid because they will have to compete for workers by increasing pay. Maybe they think there are already too many plants in the Southern US??
I guess you didn’t see Clinton on TV when he pointed his finger at the camera (us) and said “I did not have sexual relations with her”
He is also the one that signed the NAFTA bill. It doesn’t really matter who was President I would guess any one of them would have.
The president is a figure head no matter what party he is.
Our troubles stem from Congress because they make the laws and pass the bills.
If that is true as I believe it is, then the blame comes down to the American people who keep voting some of these jerks in. Some of these people have been Congress over 40 years and what do they have to show for it other than fat wallets. When enough people get fed up things will change, that is, unless it’s too late.
Being twenty would be nice again but I honestly feel bad for those who are because this country is going to be a second rate power in 10-15 years.
The leaders of the world are going to have everyone make the same wages so it’s truly a World Economy, we go down like most of Europe and the third world countries go up.
When China finishes building its blue water navy we can quit worrying about what is crossing our southern border and worry about the west coast.
Being twenty would be nice again but I honestly feel bad for those who are because this country is going to be a second rate power in 10-15 years. <
That allready took place We are a second Rate world Country In term's of chief Economics.My question to you right now Are Wars Good for the this future Economy and what lies ahead for people like us in our twenties. For a student like me enrolled part time at Georgia Tech will my career goals still be present In the IT industry . The future right now doesn't look very rewarding with who's in Office nor should it. I Hope someday we have a change In our goverment and the way it's handled..
On a side Note In a pledge to America, George W. Bush vowed to restore integrity and dignity to the White House after the Clinton years. - Well, let me pose a few examples of Bush’s idea of decency. Please tell me where the integrity and dignity is?
He appoined 2 convicted felons to high positions, sidestepping Congressional approval. (allway's a plus there money and power talk )
He appointed a plethora of former Enron executives to various positions.
He built a Defense Policy Board consisting of 9 members who sit on the corporate board of at least one defense contractor. One person sits on the board of 9 defense contractors.
He increased defense spending while he cut Veterans benefits and he cut funds for the education of children of persons in the military.
Bush campaigned on the promise of Compassionate Conservatism and last of all were fighting a war and have NO general ideal what's going On so either way were all screwed with whoever is in power .............
p.s yellbird I had to give this a lot of though writing enjoy haha
"In Bush’s first three years funding for the Veterans Administration increased 27%. And if Bush's 2005 budget is approved, funding for his full four-year term will amount to an increase of 37.6%.
In the eight years of the Clinton administration the increase was 31.7%
Those figures include mandatory spending for such things as payments to veterans for service-connected disabilities, over which Congress and presidents have little control. But Bush has increased the discretionary portion of veterans funding even more than the mandatory portion has increased. Discretionary funding under Bush is up 30.2%.
By any measure, veterans funding is going up faster under Bush than under Clinton."
I would suggest you do some checking on facts that are thrown around which at best are misleading, If I were to say a person would be given a raise of $100.00 per week next year and ended up giving them only $50.00 they would say they took a pay cut. They certainly didn't get a hundred dollar raise but to say they took a pay cut is an Illusion. If you look at the hard numbers you'll find that is almost normal regarding goverment numbers.
As for the the felons I don't know who you are talking about, please provide the names if you have them.
As for your future, I believe I am correct why I say your generation will be the first one since this country was formed, that will not be better off than the previous generation. That in itself is very telling.
You very well may be correct regarding who is on the Defense Policy Board but I will assume its best to have someone from the Defense Contractors providing information and which weapon systems are available, rather than someone who is a CEO from a large Corporation. I would want the best person for the job rather than what boards they sit on.
You may not realize it but at the close of WW2 we took as many Nazis scientists as we could get to help us build our rocket programs. Is that right or wrong, I don’t know, but as of today we are the leader in that field.
I like most people live from day to day and like most do not see that far into the future, although as you get older you plan a little further out. The leaders should be looking ahead 20-30 years or more. The good leaders do the bad don’t.
People my age don’t charge machine guns, people your age do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUNDRAV8GEORGIA
Being twenty would be nice again but I honestly feel bad for those who are because this country is going to be a second rate power in 10-15 years. <
That allready took place We are a second Rate world Country In term's of chief Economics.My question to you right now Are Wars Good for the this future Economy and what lies ahead for people like us in our twenties. For a student like me enrolled part time at Georgia Tech will my career goals still be present In the IT industry . The future right now doesn't look very rewarding with who's in Office nor should it. I Hope someday we have a change In our goverment and the way it's handled..
On a side Note In a pledge to America, George W. Bush vowed to restore integrity and dignity to the White House after the Clinton years. - Well, let me pose a few examples of Bush’s idea of decency. Please tell me where the integrity and dignity is?
He appoined 2 convicted felons to high positions, sidestepping Congressional approval. (allway's a plus there money and power talk )
He appointed a plethora of former Enron executives to various positions.
He built a Defense Policy Board consisting of 9 members who sit on the corporate board of at least one defense contractor. One person sits on the board of 9 defense contractors.
He increased defense spending while he cut Veterans benefits and he cut funds for the education of children of persons in the military.
Bush campaigned on the promise of Compassionate Conservatism and last of all were fighting a war and have NO general ideal what's going On so either way were all screwed with whoever is in power .............
p.s yellbird I had to give this a lot of though writing enjoy haha
"In Bush’s first three years funding for the Veterans Administration increased 27%. And if Bush's 2005 budget is approved, funding for his full four-year term will amount to an increase of 37.6%.
In the eight years of the Clinton administration the increase was 31.7%
Those figures include mandatory spending for such things as payments to veterans for service-connected disabilities, over which Congress and presidents have little control. But Bush has increased the discretionary portion of veterans funding even more than the mandatory portion has increased. Discretionary funding under Bush is up 30.2%.
By any measure, veterans funding is going up faster under Bush than under Clinton."
I would suggest you do some checking on facts that are thrown around which at best are misleading, If I were to say a person would be given a raise of $100.00 per week next year and ended up giving them only $50.00 they would say they took a pay cut. They certainly didn't get a hundred dollar raise but to say they took a pay cut is an Illusion. If you look at the hard numbers you'll find that is almost normal regarding goverment numbers.
Could you possibly attribute your quotation to someone so we can all agree that it's from a neutral third party? Even if it is, ask yourself, is the increase keeping up with inflation? How many more vets are there due to Iraq and Afganistan (i.e. what is the per-troop amount?).
Here are some quotes I found:
“The White House quickly backpedaled Thursday on Pentagon plans to cut the combat pay of the 157,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan after disclosure of the idea quickly became a political embarrassment.” [Source: San Francisco Chronicle, 8/15/03]
“The VA Under Secretary for Health testified last year that it requires an average yearly medical care increase of 12% to 14% to meet the cost of inflation and mandated salary increases. However, $310 million is only 1.2% more than the FY 2004 appropriation. The Administration’s budget proposal relies far too heavily on budget gimmicks, major cuts in long term care programs, higher out-of-pocket costs for veterans, and not enough on appropriated dollars.” [Source: Paralyzed Veterans of America, release, 2/3/04]
"The FY '06 budget proposal calls for $33.4 billion in discretionary funding -- mostly for health care -- and $37.4 billion in mandatory funding, mostly for compensation, pension and other benefit programs. This represents an increase of 2.7 percent over this year's discretionary budget." [www.news-medical.net 2/05]
Could you possibly attribute your quotation to someone so we can all agree that it's from a neutral third party? Even if it is, ask yourself, is the increase keeping up with inflation? How many more vets are there due to Iraq and Afganistan (i.e. what is the per-troop amount?).
Here are some quotes I found:
“The White House quickly backpedaled Thursday on Pentagon plans to cut the combat pay of the 157,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan after disclosure of the idea quickly became a political embarrassment.” [Source: San Francisco Chronicle, 8/15/03]
“The VA Under Secretary for Health testified last year that it requires an average yearly medical care increase of 12% to 14% to meet the cost of inflation and mandated salary increases. However, $310 million is only 1.2% more than the FY 2004 appropriation. The Administration’s budget proposal relies far too heavily on budget gimmicks, major cuts in long term care programs, higher out-of-pocket costs for veterans, and not enough on appropriated dollars.” [Source: Paralyzed Veterans of America, release, 2/3/04]
"The FY '06 budget proposal calls for $33.4 billion in discretionary funding -- mostly for health care -- and $37.4 billion in mandatory funding, mostly for compensation, pension and other benefit programs. This represents an increase of 2.7 percent over this year's discretionary budget." [www.news-medical.net 2/05]
I saw this post late to reply on great job fact's fact's fact's
Had they made this claim, while searching for potential sites here in the states, then their statements "might" have lent themselves, to a little more credibility. 
As it stands though... I see these comments as nothing more, than a COP-OUT on Toyota's part! 
Anyway, in these large corporations' minds, their saving themselves a $hit-pot full of money, by hiring workers who'll do the same job for less. It's that almighty BOTTOM LINE thing! 
1994 Toy: 
. The future right now doesn't look very rewarding with who's in Office nor should it. I Hope someday we have a change In our goverment and the way it's handled..
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