2000 echo check engine light

[jasked]

This is an interesting thread, so I thought I'd add a few thoughts of my own.

I recently bought an Echo and the malfunction indicator lamp was on. It ran fine except that it bogged at higher RPMs. I removed the MAF sensor and carefully cleaned the wires with a q-tip and some alcohol. This helped quite a bit and the engine light went off after a few days. Acceleration still wasn't perfect, so I took out the MAF sensor again and carefully cleaned the wires with a tiny pipe cleaner. The pipe cleaner allowed me to clean behind the wires and not just the front. Now the car runs perfectly. The wires never seemed that dirty and I couldn't see anything come off onto my white pipe cleaner, but it was obviously cleaning it enough to make a difference. So, my advice is to make sure the wires in the MAF are completely clean before you decide to buy a new one. It's been said quite a few times already, but be careful cleaning the wires as you don't want to break them. I'm not claiming that my method of cleaning is any better than others--this is simply how I cleaned mine, and it cost me nothing since I had the alcohol and tiny pipe cleaner on hand. Note that my pipe cleaner was small enough that it fit through the gap between the wire and the plastic of the tube part of the MAF sensor. It was also very soft--softer than the end of a q-tip.

I'll quickly explain how the Echo MAF sensor works. This will allow people to understand why it won't work optimally when the wires are even slightly dirty. The MAF sensor has two little wires that measure the flow of air through the engine. To do this electricity is passed through the wires in the MAF sensor. When a wire is colder the resistivity will drop and when the wire is hotter the resistivity will increase. This mean that a colder wire will allow more electricity to flow through it than a hotter wire. The wire will cool when there is more air rushing into the engine and circulating around the wire, therefore allowing more electricity to pass. The MAF sensor determines how much electricity is passing through the wire and therefore the amount of airflow. If the wire is dirty it won't be cooled as much as it should be, and the amount of airflow will not be correctly calculated. This results in the engine bogging at higher RPMs. So, if your car is working fine except that it's bogging a bit at higher RPMs, this should give you some idea why it may just need the MAF sensor cleaned.

Here are two other threads on cleaning the MAF sensor that look identical to the one in the Echo, and include photos:
http://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29287
http://www.celicahobby.com/ubbthread...b=2&o=&fpart=1

I'm seeing many reports from people in various threads where mechanics read the OBD II codes and proceeded to recommend replacing the oxygen sensor without testing it. In cases where the MAF sensor simply needs to be cleaned, replacing the oxygen sensor is obviously a waste of money. Testing the oxygen sensor is fairly quick and easy. Mechanics should have OBD II diagnostic equipment so that they can test the oxygen sensor. I came across a video that explains how simple it is to test the sensor with the proper equipment (which is pretty cheap):
http://www.movedigital.com/go/bbelec/49792/02Sensor.wmv
This can also be done with just an oscilloscope by reading the voltage coming off the oxygen sensor when the car is running. I'm not a mechanic, but from what I've read it seems that mechanics who suggest replacing the oxygen sensor without even testing it are probably either incompetent or trying to rip you off.

There are two oxygen sensors in an Echo: one is at the front of the catalytic converter and the other is behind it. The front oxygen sensor provides important information to the ECU to allow correct calculation of fuel mixture. The back oxygen sensor only exists for one purpose: to determine if the catalytic converter is working. So, only the front oxygen sensor is important for the proper running of your engine.

I noticed that you can find a copy of the service manual quickly just by Googling "Toyota Echo Factory Service Manual".

Hopefully this will help someone out there.

[Raine61]

I have a 2000 Echo and I've been having the same problem with the car hesitating when I step on the gas. Sometimes when I first take it out it will just crawl even though the gas peddle is to the floor. Now my engine light has come on. I took it to the garage and the guy worked on it all day. He did clean the MAS, MAF and throttle body. He just can't figure out what else to try. They were also nice enough for to charge me. He has told me to buy premium gas and put in a fuel additive. Any other ideas???

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by Raine61

I have a 2000 Echo and I've been having the same problem with the car hesitating when I step on the gas. Sometimes when I first take it out it will just crawl even though the gas peddle is to the floor. Now my engine light has come on. I took it to the garage and the guy worked on it all day. He did clean the MAS, MAF and throttle body. He just can't figure out what else to try. They were also nice enough for to charge me. He has told me to buy premium gas and put in a fuel additive. Any other ideas???

No need for premium or a fuel additive.
What code was it?
P0171?
If it was replace the MAF first, cleaning doesnt always fix this, usually but not always

[Raine61]

Yes it was P0171. So you think I might need to replace it? What would that end up costing?

[mustang67408]

PM sent to you

[jasked]

If you find the price on the MAF sensor to be really high for you, you could consider a part from a wrecker if they have a low-mileage Echo. Some of the wreckers where I live are pretty easy to deal with and allow people to swap parts to see if they solve the problem first. Another option is buying a new part from a place with a good return policy and returning it if it does not solve the problem.

According to the Toyota service manual, if you orient the MAF sensor the same way that it is in the car (flat part on top) and look at the electrical terminals, the resistance between the first two terminals on the left side should be between 2210 - 2690 ohms at 20 degrees C, between 13600-18400 ohms at -20 C, and between 490-670 ohms at 60 C. I'm not sure how useful this test is, but it's simple enough to test an MAF at 20 C to see if it's within the specified resistance range at that one temperature. If the resistance is way out then the MAF is bad, and if it's within the specs then this tells you nothing as the part may still be bad.

I was reading somewhere that about 25% of the hot-wire MAFs that mechanics diagnosed as needing to be replaced had an actual problem with them that was beyond the help of cleaning (the rest either had nothing wrong with them or just needed cleaning), so bad MAF sensors aren't that uncommon.

Although the mechanic said they cleaned the MAF, I suggest taking a look at it yourself just to make sure. It just takes a few minutes to take out the two screws, disconnect the wiring harness, and look into it with a light to see if the two little wires in the tube are clean and shiny and that the temp sensor is clean.

mustang67408,
If someone suspects an MAF sensor problem and they've already cleaned the MAF, do you think it's reasonable for them to try disconnecting the MAF (for 15 mins or so?) to see if the car runs better? My understanding is that the ECU will rely on other data without the data from the MAF sensor present, so the car will still run ok but less efficient. If the car runs better without the MAF sensor connected this would obviously indicate that the MAF sensor needs replacing.

[mustang67408]

No, unplugging the MAF shuts off the fuel pump and wont run because it has no idea about airflow and think the vehicle is below 40 degrees outside because the ait intake sensor shows open... not really a good idea or test,sorry

[toan30]

A quick Question. I am currently at 191000 miles on my 2000 echo. I replaced the plugs at 80000 by mistake because I didnt take the time to read and find out they were Iridium. Anyway do I necessarily need to change the plugs at 120000 miles of use or just inspect to see what they look like? Lastly this little car has been great but next year am looking at a new Prius. I hate to give this car up but I am sure someone will get good use of it.

[TP830]

Hi - first post here. I have read through all the posts and have a few questions about my 1999 Sienna. About 6 months ago it threw the 0171 code. I cleaned the MAF sensor and reset the engine light, which remained off until about two weeks ago when it came back on (coinciding with really hot and humid weather). Since then I have been fighting a losing battle with it. I have taken out and cleaned the MAF sensor several times using Radioshack electronics cleaner, but the light keeps coming back on. It always throws the 0171 code, but sometimes it also has a second code 1153. This morning it also threw the 1151 code. I measured the resistance on the MAF and is is just over 1.5KΩ at about 27C (80F). I also checked and cleaned the vaccumhoses to the airfilter housing - they seem fine. After the check engine light comes on the engine runs smoothly for a while, but the it starts running really rough with a lot of vibration. As soon as the reset is done, it goed back to running smoothly. I am running out of ideas here - any help will be greatly appreciated!

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by TP830

Hi - first post here. I have read through all the posts and have a few questions about my 1999 Sienna. About 6 months ago it threw the 0171 code. I cleaned the MAF sensor and reset the engine light, which remained off until about two weeks ago when it came back on (coinciding with really hot and humid weather). Since then I have been fighting a losing battle with it. I have taken out and cleaned the MAF sensor several times using Radioshack electronics cleaner, but the light keeps coming back on. It always throws the 0171 code, but sometimes it also has a second code 1153. This morning it also threw the 1151 code. I measured the resistance on the MAF and is is just over 1.5KΩ at about 27C (80F). I also checked and cleaned the vaccumhoses to the airfilter housing - they seem fine. After the check engine light comes on the engine runs smoothly for a while, but the it starts running really rough with a lot of vibration. As soon as the reset is done, it goed back to running smoothly. I am running out of ideas here - any help will be greatly appreciated!

Sounds like you have a California vehicle with those codes.
P1153 is a bad A/F sensor, it is the one in the exhaust manifold closest to the radiator before the CATALYTIC CONVETER.
P1151 does not come up as a valid code

[hawk_1954]

My wife's 2000 echo had her CEL come on and I cleaned the MAF w/ Brakleen. I then disconnected the battery cable about 10 minutes then reconnected. The light went off, but has come back on again after a day (30 miles driven). The motor runs well (no stumble, bogging) so I'm confused why the light would come back on. I have not used a diagnostic reader to get an error code, but plan on puchasing one.

1. Should I have left the battery disconnected for a longer time period to clear the ECU?
2. Does the car need to run for a period of time for the ECU to "re-learn"?
3. The owner's manual says that there could be a problem with the "engine or automatic transmission electrical system". (I don't think this could be anything since the light went off after cleaning the MAF, but my wife drives in stop and go traffic and is worried about the car getting stuck in traffic)
4. Should I determine what the error code is before doing anything else?

Thanks for your help in this matter.

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by hawk_1954

My wife's 2000 echo had her CEL come on and I cleaned the MAF w/ Brakleen. I then disconnected the battery cable about 10 minutes then reconnected. The light went off, but has come back on again after a day (30 miles driven). The motor runs well (no stumble, bogging) so I'm confused why the light would come back on. I have not used a diagnostic reader to get an error code, but plan on puchasing one.

1. Should I have left the battery disconnected for a longer time period to clear the ECU?
2. Does the car need to run for a period of time for the ECU to "re-learn"?
3. The owner's manual says that there could be a problem with the "engine or automatic transmission electrical system". (I don't think this could be anything since the light went off after cleaning the MAF, but my wife drives in stop and go traffic and is worried about the car getting stuck in traffic)
4. Should I determine what the error code is before doing anything else?

Thanks for your help in this matter.

There are over 300 reasons that light came back on.
Get the code read and lets go from there. There are so many choices, lets not guess.

[dinger1976]

Hi there i have a 2000 Toyota echo i been reading all the post and i have had the same problem with my vehicle i took the MAF sensor out cleaned it and undid the battery for 5 mins to reset the computer my engine light went out and stayed off for awhile the car ran a lot better but only a couple weeks later the same problem but the car only struggles in corners will stall out if you don't put it in neutral on the hi way it started to die out with the engine light flashing at me when i was on the side of the road it ran really rough and stalled with the fuel pedal on the floor no rev at all i let it sit for five mins started it a couple of times started running smoother but it still bogs out when i stop and go around a corner i changed the battery and the air filter and the spark plugs cleaned the MAF and it worked for about 3 weeks i have codes for the engine light it is a po441 and po446 Auxiliary asked Toyota and they told me it would not cause my problems I'm having can you please help ready to pull my hair out Toyota said it would cost around 300$ to do tests to try and fix it and then it's trial and error

[mustang67408]

Originally Posted by dinger1976

Hi there i have a 2000 Toyota echo i been reading all the post and i have had the same problem with my vehicle i took the MAF sensor out cleaned it and undid the battery for 5 mins to reset the computer my engine light went out and stayed off for awhile the car ran a lot better but only a couple weeks later the same problem but the car only struggles in corners will stall out if you don't put it in neutral on the hi way it started to die out with the engine light flashing at me when i was on the side of the road it ran really rough and stalled with the fuel pedal on the floor no rev at all i let it sit for five mins started it a couple of times started running smoother but it still bogs out when i stop and go around a corner i changed the battery and the air filter and the spark plugs cleaned the MAF and it worked for about 3 weeks i have codes for the engine light it is a po441 and po446 Auxiliary asked Toyota and they told me it would not cause my problems I'm having can you please help ready to pull my hair out Toyota said it would cost around 300$ to do tests to try and fix it and then it's trial and error

Sounds like you have a fuel pump going out, or a BAD MAF.
The P0441/P0446 have nothing to do with that, they are usually caused by a bad ORVR and Charcoal canister, or the wires on the purge VSV are broken or the vacuum lines going to the purge VSV on the air filter lid are on wrong. This is all speculation without actually having the vehicle infront of me. You should take it to someone who can actually see the vehicle and knows what they are doing, there are to many options to just guess at this repair.