New hybrid Tundra would you buy one if offered?

[geojim]

I am not convinced that gasoline hybrids are the answer to all of our dino fuel dependency woes. Maybe good for city commuter cars, not too good in trucks IMO. Check out the Chevy Silverado Hybrid. Not too impressive a gain.

The cost and complexity, and relativley short battery life (Toyota states Camry Hybrid packs should go 150k) would lead me to look for a better long term investment.

I would rather see a diesel, especially a turbodiesel option, as someone else stated here, they get better economy than straight gas engines, and have loads more torque. And that is continuous torque. Hybrids can produce alot of torque from a standstill and for short distances, but the battery charge would be quickly depleted pulling a 6k lb travel trailer up a 10% for 5 miles.

Also, diesels can run on locally produced biodiesel, which is becoming more availible these days.

[HBjeff]

with deisel tech where it is nowadays im shocked that it is not being pushed as a better option than gasoline. it makes more power, its faster, hauls more, and will power our trucks with a much smaller displacement motor

[MOREPOWER]

I would buy it for 10ger over current sr5 ac cab price , if gas was $5 per gallon and the tundra got at least 45 mpg city 30 hwy and could haul up to 8,000 lbs while getting 25 mpg, i would also need a 150k warranty on the drive train including the battery. I know I'm asking a lot.

[RSLAND]

I wouldn't base any judgements on the so-called Chevy Silverado Hybrid. It's just another scam by GM to fool the public into believing that they are on the cutting edge. If Toyota can build a Tundra or Tacoma hybrid that gets over 28 mpg, I will give it serious consideration and see how the numbers play out. Since the cost difference is only speculation at this point, who knows what the price will be. The higher gas goes, the better the hybrid looks, and with the emergence of the auto industry in China, the demand for gas will result in prices continuing to rise. In five years, $3.00 a gallon gas will seem cheap. How's that for an uplifting post? What can I say, it's been a long week.

Rob

[CT-Tundra]

No sales tax in CT on hybrid vehicles.

If it made 300HP, equivelant torque, and 20+ MPG, I'd do it. Crap, if Toyota made a diesel pickup in the USA I'd do that in a heartbeat, too (Hilux!).

Yes, hybrid gas/electric engines are going to have more problems because the technology is being rushed. Internal cumbustion engines have had a LONG time to mature, rushing out hybrids to production in just a few years is going to have some bumps.

For anyone with a diesel, check out http://www.greasecar.com/ - lots of Dodge trucks going over to vegatable oil. Wish I had an old Hilux diesel pickup to experiment with.

[ibaxnu]

Originally Posted by gprotz203

i would rather wait for a diesel. they have more power, and better mileage. not to mention it should be cheaper if prices ever go back to where they should be. im still praying that will happen

High gas prices are here to stay. Remember when gas jumped to 2.00 a gallon? How we bitched and moaned? We should have been paying 3.00+ a gallon years ago, (Europe and Japan have gas at 4-5.00+) if only to make consumers think about the benefits of fuel efficient cars and trucks and force manufacturers and the government to push for higher milage standards through the entire product line, not just for a couple of economy cars to bump up the average. The Toyota Prius battery pack has been shown to be just as reliable as the car, with few premature failures. As for depreciation or cost of replacing the battery pack, remember these are Toyotas, depreciation is not a big concern regardless. Besides, with Lithium-Ion technology advancements, you can expect to replace the current NiMh batteries with a lighter, more powerful, more efficient, longer lasting battery pack, extending the lifespan of the Hybrid and again stretching the savings over time.
I average 14 mpg with my Tundra, I knew it when I bought it so I can't complain. It is a sports truck isn't it?

[AC]

How about an experimental engine(not available yet), by Toyota that produces 400 HP? Saw the article with sedan in Popsci. or Popmechanics.

[tomhole]

I doubt that a hybrid would help much for a work truck. The electric part would never have enough oomph to help much at hwy speeds while towing. It would help off the line, but I don't need to win a race when towing. I would worry about the long term durability of beating the snot out of it every day. Heck, I'm worried about my regular Tundra.

Tom

[PointCrossed]

If Toyota offers 8 year 100K warranty on the hybrid, lets do a little theoretical math...

In a perfect world lets say the car is hybrid and gets 55 MPG (you can plug any number in here you want) and the warranty expires at 100K miles so thats 100K miles/55mpg = 1818 gallons of gas. Now multiply 1818 x $3.05 = $5545 over the 100K period inf gas prices stay the same. If it is estimated to cost $6000 to replace the batteries alone, without adding the other maintenance costs, the total price for fuel and batteries is $11545.

Now if you plug in a less number like 15MPG which my tundra gets. you will end up theoretically paying near 3 times as more for fuel.

Now if a hybrid system is put in the tundra maybe reducing the engine size to a large displacment 4 cylinder or inline 6 which is more ideal, it is modestly possible to double the gas milage.

Now doing the math what savings do you assume you will get with a hybrid tundra. With a 100K warranty and maybe a $8000 battery cost. You would probably still see a savings.

With the way battery technology is improving yearly, you may be able to see increased gas milage.

[chuff]

I really don't think a hybrid drive sytem would help much in a full size truck. I have no idea but doesn't seem worth while when towing or pulling. Unless battery technology improves by leaps and bounds soon I don't think we could expect more than a little gain from the system. Maybe around 20mpg as I get around 16 now at best, add to that the manufactures seem to be using it more as a performance enhancer than a mpg enhancer in anything that's not golf cart sized. They really need a smaller diesel hybrid or just a plain old diesel.

[PointCrossed]

With the cost of gas going up I think more hybrids are just around the corner even in a full size truck.

Off subject in this paragraph, but very few people really think about where the gas that they are putting in there engines comes from, or even better how it is made, how its pumped out of the ground, and then what is happening in the ground where the oil is taken out of (besides filling it with seawater) where the oil is being pumped out, is there magic under the earth that is making more oil?

Well wherever I need to go, its too far to walk so I dont really care too much, I really need my car and gas so I can drive it.

I am a engineer so I know anything is possible if designed right, there are battries out there that last longer, take up less space, has as much power and are lighter that the ones used in the hybrids today. The problems are that they are currently expenive and the charging them is a tedious process once those issues are resoved they can be incorporated into vehicles especially hybrids and trucks.

For example, Look at how much and how fast cell phones have advanced, like out of a 50's or 60's Sci-fi movie. Even some of the outrageous gadgets they use in 007 and MI movies seem believable.

The battery technology is there. Subways and Trolleys use electric motors exclusively. and I have been in some cities that use buses with electric motors that are powered like trolleys.

Hybrids use the electric motor exclusively for charging the batteries Drive power and assisting the electric motor. Needing a V8 engine to do all that is unnecessary, it can be done with a smaller engine. It can be done with a large displacment 4 cylinder, or small displacment 6 or 8 cylinder. You may need a bigger electric motor with the appropriate gearing Another thing is a hybrid uses a diferent type of transmission, that is designed around the electric motor, because there are electic motor have alot of torque and can run at much Higher RPM's like 15K rpm or more, depending upon the application.

In the near future you may stop thinking of vehicles as just having engines but having (in a science fiction sense) "propulsion systems", and when you go to the auto parts store you will end up seeing different parts and strange upgrades.

Times have changed and the way gas prices is going I am ready for it.

[looknow12]

There's a lot of incorrect assumptions here. A Hybrid gas electric could offer more low end torque (instant torque at that) and more high end power than the current gas variant powerplant. And it's seamless power. Like a rubber band you're getting a very distributed power curve.

Remember electric motors are used in many applications. Including jumbo dump trucks which have electric motors in each wheel and offer 500hp.

It's not just about gas savings. With hybrids, you get a lot of plus'. In the form Toyota is currently pushing, a balance between more power for better gas mileage

Lexus has just announced a a new LS600LH which will offer over 430HP and provide 0-60 times in the 4 second range. YES, sign me up.

If Toyota used a 5.0 liter V8 in a hybrid powerplant, we'd see more horsepower and get better gas mileage than the 5.7 offering.

If they offered another version with a V6 3.5 liter in a Hybrid, we'd probably achieve the same as the 5.7 liter engine HP and get much better gas mileage.

Toyota is begining to get really smart about it too. Offering transmission switches (ECT) that allow you to select power for more power and Normal for better gas mileage. The new ECT switches offer a much greater swing of power, than the old days (80's).

I'm there!!

[cupidstoy]

i agree with pointcrossed. don't down the electric motor system, large tour buses and locomotives use the electric motor charged by a diesel engine so towing a load and running all day won't be a problem and might actually be an improvement.

a simple calc: i've been spending $330/month in gas. if i could cut that in half, (double the mileage for the same distance traveled), i would have $165/month to invest in new technology. let's say the higher initial cost plus changing the batteries comes to about $12000 as in previous post. i could pay that amount in 72 months (12000/165). with a conventional loan, (not lease) i would be paying on the truck 60 - 72 months anyway. so, at the end of payments, i have a new battery pack and about 1200miles/month x 72 months = 87000 miles on the truck. now i have no payments, a vehicle that gets 30 or so mpg and can haul my boat, toys, etc all day long and is better for the environment.

not too shabby, right? that doesn't even include the tax credits and smug as i enjoy the smell of my own farts. (southpark fans?)

[AC]

If you think electric machines aren't powerful enough, just look no further than this beast. All electric motors(Not the Tundra).

[chuff]

I'm not saying electric motors are not powerful or don't offer any advantages like instant torque. The examples you guys point out don't use batteries, they are powered by a third rail, overhead cable (trolley) or a dedicated diesel engine (locomotive). I don't know but I believe to expect 30mpg is very optimistic with a hybrid system. There is no way a hybrid drive system as we know them right now will double our mileage.

Lets take the Prius for example, that car alone without the hybrid drive could probably get 40 or more mpg. A mid to late eighties Honda Civic hatchback or CRX gets around 44mpg. With the hybrid system people are only getting 45 - 55mpg out of the Prius, that's hardly better than an 88" Honda CRX. Depending on how much stop and go regenerative braking can be done. That's not a lot of gain, and that car is not pulling around much weight, let alone a trailer, nor is it a big V-8 or pushing a brick through the air.

"In '84, the 1.3 liter Civic CRX achieved an impressive EPA reading of 51/67 mpg (city/hwy)" http://arstechnica.com/reviews/3q00/...insight-1.html That's a better rating than the Prius without a hybrid system. If you could only find one in decent shape it's probably a better deal than the current hybrids.

Like I said earlier unless batteries are improved dramatically or we pull an extension cable behind us the gain will be minimal. A normal diesel would probably provide as good or better mileage than a gas hybrid.