U.S. vs. Canadian new car prices

[Cliffy1]

"Mr. Dealer, could you tell the court why you discriminated against my client?"

"We didn't discriminate against anybody."

"Isn't it true that you would not accept the draft my client provided to you."

"Well, yeah, but..."

"And isn't it true that you accept bank drafts from other banks?"

"Well, yeah, but..."

"Isn't it true that the only difference between my client and the rest of your customers is that my client is a Canadian resident?"

"No, but..."

"My client provided you with a draft from a legitimate bank, payable in US funds. Every other customer who presented a similar draft was able to purchase a car. Isn't that true?"

"Yes, but the bank required that we provide them with a title for the vehicle before we could get the funds."

"Every other draft you accepted had the same requirement, didn't they?"

"Yes, but those are US titles. We've never done a Canadian title."

"So you admit that you refuse to provide the same service to my client that you provide to all your other customers, simply because he is Canadian!"

"No! Its not like that. We sell cars to Canadians. They just have to pay cash."

"So you admit that you cater only to wealthy Canadians who don't have to finance their cars. Nothing further your honor."

Sounds far fetched doesn't it? Not really. I'm not arguing that this is the reason many dealers will not sell to Canadians. The fact of the matter is, its complicated and fraught with pitfalls. Its easier and safer to not do it. When the manufacturer is telling you not to do it, consistent business practices tell you not to do it and a legal system that can find victims faster than Nanook of the North can eat a raw leg of caribou, it just makes sense to avoid it.

It might be worth it for some dealers. One or two extra sales a month can make or break some dealers. Some dealers just want to sell at any cost. Most will not.

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by stuball

You would probably be more successful than Toyota would as you could fall back on used car sales. Toyota, on the other hand, relies solely on the dealers to make their money. And especially with the market being so huge in the U.S. I believe the U.S. dealers, collectively and sticking together, hold the power in any negotiation. Individually, you have zip and are at their mercy.

Stuball

it is funny you say that because my internet sales office is on the used car lot and youre right, that is where I make my money.

Maybe I could get a waiver since I am half Canadian, lol

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by stuball

I don't know anything about the financing part. I am not financing my Tundra and will be wiring the money when required. I do not know of any U.S. auto dealers financing vehicles going outside of the U.S. I had assumed it would be cash sales only and that any financing for vehicles brought into Canada would have to be done by the buyer in Canada at Canadian financial instutions. I would think that U.S. financial institutions would have the right to say yes or no to a loan for non-U.S. citizens. And I think this right should exist if there would be road blocks preventing them going after default loans outside of the U.S. But, as I said I know nothing about the financing part.

Stuball

\

they have rules on the financing for sure. Just like Our Regional Toyota Motor Credit wouldnt finance any of the tundras that I have sent to Hawaii. They had to get their own financing over there and send me the check before I shipped it.

But with all of those rich Canadians, cash shouldnt be a problem, lol

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by Cliffy1

"Mr. Dealer, could you tell the court why you discriminated against my client?"

"We didn't discriminate against anybody."

"Isn't it true that you would not accept the draft my client provided to you."

"Well, yeah, but..."

"And isn't it true that you accept bank drafts from other banks?"

"Well, yeah, but..."

"Isn't it true that the only difference between my client and the rest of your customers is that my client is a Canadian resident?"

"No, but..."

"My client provided you with a draft from a legitimate bank, payable in US funds. Every other customer who presented a similar draft was able to purchase a car. Isn't that true?"

"Yes, but the bank required that we provide them with a title for the vehicle before we could get the funds."

"Every other draft you accepted had the same requirement, didn't they?"

"Yes, but those are US titles. We've never done a Canadian title."

"So you admit that you refuse to provide the same service to my client that you provide to all your other customers, simply because he is Canadian!"

"No! Its not like that. We sell cars to Canadians. They just have to pay cash."

"So you admit that you cater only to wealthy Canadians who don't have to finance their cars. Nothing further your honor."

Sounds far fetched doesn't it? Not really. I'm not arguing that this is the reason many dealers will not sell to Canadians. The fact of the matter is, its complicated and fraught with pitfalls. Its easier and safer to not do it. When the manufacturer is telling you not to do it, consistent business practices tell you not to do it and a legal system that can find victims faster than Nanook of the North can eat a raw leg of caribou, it just makes sense to avoid it.

It might be worth it for some dealers. One or two extra sales a month can make or break some dealers. Some dealers just want to sell at any cost. Most will not.

omg, you had me rolling, You have too much time on your hands if you can argue with yourself in a court of law, lmao

[stuball]

Originally Posted by Cliffy1

"Mr. Dealer, could you tell the court why you discriminated against my client?"

"We didn't discriminate against anybody."

"Isn't it true that you would not accept the draft my client provided to you."

"Well, yeah, but..."

"And isn't it true that you accept bank drafts from other banks?"

"Well, yeah, but..."

"Isn't it true that the only difference between my client and the rest of your customers is that my client is a Canadian resident?"

"No, but..."

"My client provided you with a draft from a legitimate bank, payable in US funds. Every other customer who presented a similar draft was able to purchase a car. Isn't that true?"

"Yes, but the bank required that we provide them with a title for the vehicle before we could get the funds."

"Every other draft you accepted had the same requirement, didn't they?"

"Yes, but those are US titles. We've never done a Canadian title."

"So you admit that you refuse to provide the same service to my client that you provide to all your other customers, simply because he is Canadian!"

"No! Its not like that. We sell cars to Canadians. They just have to pay cash."

"So you admit that you cater only to wealthy Canadians who don't have to finance their cars. Nothing further your honor."

Sounds far fetched doesn't it? Not really. I'm not arguing that this is the reason many dealers will not sell to Canadians. The fact of the matter is, its complicated and fraught with pitfalls. Its easier and safer to not do it. When the manufacturer is telling you not to do it, consistent business practices tell you not to do it and a legal system that can find victims faster than Nanook of the North can eat a raw leg of caribou, it just makes sense to avoid it.

It might be worth it for some dealers. One or two extra sales a month can make or break some dealers. Some dealers just want to sell at any cost. Most will not.

"Sounds far fetched", ....only in America. There is good reason the U.S. legal system dominates the headlines of the "News of the wierd" page. (just kidding)

All other U.S. dealers I have talked to gave the reason that "Big Brother" wouldn't allow them to sell to Canadians. You are the first dealer I have heard give possible liability as a reason not to sell to Canadians.

Sooo, who's Nanook?

Stuball

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by stuball

All other U.S. dealers I have talked to gave the reason that "Big Brother" wouldn't allow them to sell to Canadians. You are the first dealer I have heard give possible liability as a reason not to sell to Canadians.

It is a great career move to just follow orders and not worry about why. As the other guy stated, I am not in a position to change it so I dont trip about it.

And I will sell to a Canadian happily but there are guidelines that have to be met for that to happen. As I am sure we have already talked about in length

[2Canoe]

Originally Posted by deepthought

You make good points Steve. Being a Canuck has it's trials for certain, we as a nation are among the highest taxed people in the democratic world. I'm sure this play's a major factor in this equation.

As Steve mentioned, fluctuation in the difference in currencies can not possibly be accounted for on a monthly or even yearly basis. This coupled with all of the various tariffs and taxes on vehicles brought into Canada I can't see a drop in price in the foreseeable future.

Even if we would be allowed to purchace new US vehicles south of the border and bring them back to Canada the cost of the madatory conversion to "Canadian Spec" (ie Metric Guages ,odometer, etc) coupled with the import duties and headaches that would come along with such an endevour would almost assuredly bring you very close to if not beyond the cost of the same car on a lot in Canada.

Fear not though, fellow Canadians. If being Canadian means being taxed 40% of your wages at least you can rest assured that our fine government will at least spend your money constructively with systems like the gun registry or perhaps implementing a survey on the pine needle count in the norhwest quadrent of BC

I have imported a few vehicles lately. no customs charge, other than a $200 import (RIV) it is no defferent to buy down there than here. I saved $14,000 on my new Tundra, Dealers only have to make my new Truck into a Demo with 1 mile on it and the game goes on. Daytime running lights for some models is the only mod.

[2Canoe]

Originally Posted by deepthought

If you're refering to the "free trade agreement" , that only applies to used vehicles 10 years or older. Duty would still apply to new vehiclesor anything newer than '98

I just came by this site you are so misinformed. where do you get your info. I bought a new Truck and a car in the states I am from Canada. Yes I pay GST at the border. You pay GST at the dealer. That is the only difference other than (RIV) Inspection. I put Daytime Running Lights on my truck, my car had them already. It is Candian dealers whining to the manufactors to put Pressure on US dealers not to sell new cars to canuck so they can charge us from $10,000 to $20,000 more . US dealer like to do volume Canadian dealers like to charge there customers lots and sit around. The best way to have the price come down in Canada is to buy you next car in the States.

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by 2Canoe

I have imported a few vehicles lately. no customs charge, other than a $200 import (RIV) it is no defferent to buy down there than here. I saved $14,000 on my new Tundra, Dealers only have to make my new Truck into a Demo with 1 mile on it and the game goes on. Daytime running lights for some models is the only mod.

At our dealership, we dont even put our demos in demo status. We are not giving up a retail sale for any reason. Basically if we sell a car that way, we wont get a truck to replace it. Again as someone else stated, It isnt worth it. I am sure some dealers will still do it, but it makes absolutely no business sense.

any way, this thread has run its course, what else can we talk about now?

[Cliffy1]

Originally Posted by stuball

"Sounds far fetched", ....only in America. There is good reason the U.S. legal system dominates the headlines of the "News of the wierd" page. (just kidding)

All other U.S. dealers I have talked to gave the reason that "Big Brother" wouldn't allow them to sell to Canadians. You are the first dealer I have heard give possible liability as a reason not to sell to Canadians.

Sooo, who's Nanook?

Stuball

At the level of the sales floor, all they know (or even need to know), is that its against policy. Those policies come from somewhere and its usually a lawyer that most salesmen have never seen.

Again, I'm not saying this is the answer. Its a possible and likely answer or maybe just a contributing factor.

[2Canoe]

Originally Posted by SFTundraMan

At our dealership, we dont even put our demos in demo status. We are not giving up a retail sale for any reason. Basically if we sell a car that way, we wont get a truck to replace it. Again as someone else stated, It isnt worth it. I am sure some dealers will still do it, but it makes absolutely no business sense.

any way, this thread has run its course, what else can we talk about now?

I maby wrong calling them demos but my point is. There is US dealers selling very low mileage units, At great prices. I am from Canada and your retail is far below ours. When Toyota says they cant sell new to canucks they have ways of not calling them new and the Unit gets sold. Dealers increase their volume of sales and that makes sence in my books. The Idea that Canadian trucks are built for Canada is basically untrue.(very minor differences) and certainly doesnt justify the price difference. I have worked all my life for big companys I have paid from 20-30 thousand dollar every year in income tax. I am semi retired now and I have bought a Used Tundra in Canada last year. $37,000 an 2006 Tundra. This year I got a 1 year newer Tundra (2007) with more options for $29,000. in Michigan. Canadian dealers want to keep their prices high. Canadian dealers took $12,000 extra from me last year With options difference it was actually more like $16,000). Or maybe it was Toyota. Canadian dealers want to refuse warranty block free trade, and steal from Middle class working people. Besides when I buy a vehicle I pay GST,PST . I feel beat up but I got my tundra, And it feels good to have not made the same mistake twice. Plus I tell everyone I know how easy it is to get an almost new Truck (5,500 miles) in the States. I know someone else who bought with 55 miles on it.

[SFTundraMan]

Originally Posted by 2Canoe

I maby wrong calling them demos but my point is. There is US dealers selling very low mileage units, At great prices. I am from Canada and your retail is far below ours. When Toyota says they cant sell new to canucks they have ways of not calling them new and the Unit gets sold. Dealers increase their volume of sales and that makes sence in my books. The Idea that Canadian trucks are built for Canada is basically untrue.(very minor differences) and certainly doesnt justify the price difference. I have worked all my life for big companys I have paid from 20-30 thousand dollar every year in income tax. I am semi retired now and I have bought a Used Tundra in Canada last year. $37,000 an 2006 Tundra. This year I got a 1 year newer Tundra (2007) with more options for $29,000. in Michigan. Canadian dealers want to keep their prices high. Canadian dealers took $12,000 extra from me last year With options difference it was actually more like $16,000). Or maybe it was Toyota. Canadian dealers want to refuse warranty block free trade, and steal from Middle class working people. Besides when I buy a vehicle I pay GST,PST . I feel beat up but I got my tundra, And it feels good to have not made the same mistake twice. Plus I tell everyone I know how easy it is to get an almost new Truck (5,500 miles) in the States. I know someone else who bought with 55 miles on it.

you said it right, if we make it a demo model in our system, then it is sold as a used car and different rules apply. But because it is not sold by the dealer as a retail unit, they lose credit for a retail sale. The truck is going to sell to someone regardless so why a dealer would not want to get credit for the sale and earn another one makes no business sense at all. Works out great for you, but again, makes no business sense to the dealership

[kdmiller]

Originally Posted by 2Canoe

I just came by this site you are so misinformed. where do you get your info. I bought a new Truck and a car in the states I am from Canada. Yes I pay GST at the border. You pay GST at the dealer. That is the only difference other than (RIV) Inspection. I put Daytime Running Lights on my truck, my car had them already. It is Candian dealers whining to the manufactors to put Pressure on US dealers not to sell new cars to canuck so they can charge us from $10,000 to $20,000 more . US dealer like to do volume Canadian dealers like to charge there customers lots and sit around. The best way to have the price come down in Canada is to buy you next car in the States.

You make it sound like the dealers here in Canada have a choice. Like you think that the dealers are the ones making the difference between the US and Canadian prices. If this is actually what you, or anyone else for that matter, thinks you need to all give your head a shake!!! What everyone needs to do is get in touch with Toyota Canada and tell them to get the pricing in line, it is them making the money, NOT the dealers.

.....now that I think about it, SFTundraMan, why don't you just sell me all of your Tundra 4x4s at say $1500 over invoice (I think that would be a good deal as I am seeing all the US buyers seem to want to buy at or under invoice on the forums) we can split the freight to the Canadian border I can look after the paperwork at this end, sell for stupid cheap compared to one that was actually built for Canada and still have happy customers..... lol Wonder what Toyota Canada would have to say about that....lol

[pittass]

I have been looking into new Tundra's myself, can save $13k in NJ. Will cost me about $1500 including airfare, gas, hotel and meals to get back to NL. The changes required are minimal, and I was told that the 2008's will have daytime running lights and heavy-duty batteries. Why would I pay $41k here when I can buy one in the US for $28k? Crazy.

[stuball]

Originally Posted by pittass

I have been looking into new Tundra's myself, can save $13k in NJ. Will cost me about $1500 including airfare, gas, hotel and meals to get back to NL. The changes required are minimal, and I was told that the 2008's will have daytime running lights and heavy-duty batteries. Why would I pay $41k here when I can buy one in the US for $28k? Crazy.

The Daylight Running Lights usually a $40.00 option in most areas. You would want to check that out. Also, the Cold Kit (includes heavy duty battery, heavy duty starter) is standard on the Limited models for 2008, but I do not know if it still is a $100.00 option on other vehicles. You might want to check that out what is standard and what is optional.

Bought my Avalon XLS in from the dealer in Gander. Nice people in NL.

Stuball