Tried to testdrive 07 Tundra - NOT HAPPY!

[dsrtrcr01]

I had a similar experience when looking to buy the Double cab I have. Granted I still got carded for rated R movies at that time even though I was 27. So maybe they thought I was just some kid.
The sales guy just handed me a Tundra pamphlet and did not even show me a truck. The only thing I got was to walk around the lot and check them out by myself. So I bought from a friend at another dealer and went back the same day to the Jerks lot. I parked right in front of all the salesmen standing in the lot and went in to buy floor mats from a friend at the counter. When I was leaving the Jerk comes up to me to say "why did you end up going to Lemon grove?"(Dealer plates) I told him straight out that when I came in to buy this morning he blew me off. He stated he did not know I was ready to buy right then and that he was really busy. My reply = "I found someone who was not to busy to do their job"

I h8 salesmen. To bad I work with them everyday

[mtnrunner]

Originally Posted by Whaler22

Sooo....how do you really feel?

...

The reality is, nothing they need to do takes more than a couple minuts. Credit history is almost instantaneous, as is trade evaluation...the four hour process is all about wearing/tiring the buyers - but we don't have to play by their rules.

Nice tactic Whaler. My favorite way of dealing with the dealer is thru my auto broker. I love the looks I get when I say: honestly sir, I have an auto broker who will be acquiring this vehicle for me, I'm just taking a test drive.

Recently, buying my 07 Tundy, a salesman said using a broker will end up costing me more cuz he takes off the top. I challenged him to make his best offer, it was $0 off MSRP but they'd waive the $400 dealer prep. "Sir, that's all the time of mine I will allow you to waste - click"

[laytonj1]

I bought my Titan through the internet sales department..Did all the negotiating through e-mail, so I didn't have to deal with the scum ignorant sales people!

If you walked on to a dealers lot with that attitude then I can understand why you were cold shouldered.
I ain't a salesman but they have families to feed and bills to pay and get to spend all day with people wanting this and wanting that right now. And they don't get to decide what you pay for a vehicle.. the sales manager does. They're just the go between catching crap between buyer and sales manager. I would imagine that when their busy and someone pulls up on the lot with no intention of buying and wants a test drive right now and shows some attitude.... well...
I say this because I've never had and issues buying vehicles.. I go in with a pleasent attitude and get treated with same.
Of course, there's always exceptions.

Jim

[eharri3]

Their comments about why you would want to trade a Titan for a Tundra, the Titan being the only thing that comes close to the Tundra, etc... they were 'qualifying' you as a potential buyer, feeling you out, saying something to provoke you and waiting for your response to get an idea of whether you are a buyer or habitual test-driver.

Once the original guy figured out you were the latter, he pawned you off on someone else. The 'truck expert' comment was his way of pulling your leg, maybe an inside joke that him and the other salespeople privately giggled about because he was probably really turning you over to the newbie who is used to getting all the tire-kickers shoved in his direction.

They probably could have been more diplimatic about how they treated you, but IMHO if the dealership is busy and they have plenty of potential buyers on the floor I can understand why they didn't want to spend time with you. If it was empty with nothing going on, I say they should have indulged you cause you never know if someone is an impulse buyer who might sign on the dotted line if they like the test drive.

Time is money and these guys gotta sell to keep their jobs and eat. To you it was him being too much of an a-hole just to indulge you for a little 20 min test drive. To him, you want to waste his time and keep him from the paying customers just because you were bored and wanted to thrash a brand new truck. While he's out in the truck with a customer who walked onto the lot knowing he wasn't planning to buy, the other salesmen are making the money.

I used to do the same thing you tried to do, then went into sales and now I understand the other side. I still go to lots and kick tires when there's something new out that I want to see in person but I never solicit a test drive. IF a salesman approaches and pushes the test drive on me, which has happened, that's different. I don't decline but I re-iterate that I'm not currently in the market before I take the keys. It usually helps my chances of getting behind the wheel if when they approach I say something along the lines of, "Yes, I'd love to drive it but I'm not planning to buy right at this moment so if you're busy I don't want to make you spend time on me when you won't get a sale out of it today." NExt time I walk up and specifically ask to test drive anything will be when I'm planning to buy.

Salesmen don't appreciate being fed a line of crap buy a customer any more than customers appreciate being fed a line of crap by salesmen. You tried to pass yourself off as a buyer when by your own admission you really weren't. They didn't react too well. No big surprises there.

[TNK]

Why is a Saleman a jerk for not wasteing his time with a "Tire Kicker: ?
Hate to break your heart dude .... but nobody owes you anything on this earth.

[BrianHud]

AgTitan06,

Thanks for the heads up on those a-holes at Don McGill. I live in Cypress, but drive by that hellhole fairly often. I'll make sure and steer clear.

If you're really interested in a Toyota, and want a recommendation, I purchased by Tundra and my wife's Sequoia at Fred Haas Toyota World on 45N and 2920. I dealt only with Kris Yoosefi, who is one of the Fleet Sales managers. He's a great guy, who pulled through on price and got me everything I wanted. I dealt with other fleet sales managers at other Toyota dealerships, which is how I pulled off the deal that I wanted, but this guy got everything done for me that I needed, and did it well. I try to send everyone his way. If I had a bad experience, like I did at Sterling McCall Toyota on 59S near Beltway 8, I would not recommend them. Kris Yoosefi though...I would send everyone to him, because I will go back to him when I'm ready. Hopefully he's still working there, because I like to upgrade every 10 years.

Brian

[jliltd]

If you did get to test drive one you would be happy. That dealer must be a Tea Sipper.
Here's a vote for Blackwood Toyota in Victoria. Kent Blackwood is a great guy and their operation is friendly and family-run with no BS and a person's word is golden. Their service department, though small, has more knowleged than most of the folks at the distributor. I drive there from Corpus (80 mi) for service because our local big-box Toyota dealer blows. I've decided to purchase my next Toyota(s) at Blackwood, notwithstanding the below:

If somebody could only get Gulf States Toyota distributor in Houston to configure some proper '07 Tundras for our Texas dealers then folks like me wouldn't have go all the way to New Mexico (Rocky Mountain distributor out of Denver) to bring a good '07 work truck back. It's a damn shame. All the currently-stocked Texas trucks are short-bed, small-engined soccer-mom "go to the mall" types with tape stripes and extra mile paint sealer BS packages. The rocky-mountan states distributor gets 'em with big engines, long beds, proper work packages with real amenities and they leave the tape stripes to the low riders.

[wileetundra]

I was in sales and managed sales teams for many years. You can't really understand their perspective until you are in their shoes. It is very frustrating to spend so much of your time treating every customer like gold when 95% of them are not ready to buy and 85% of them probably won't buy anything any time soon.

Since most sales people are paid on commission they literally live for the sale and they can't afford to spend a lot of time on the window shoppers, curious folk, or tech heads which want to hang out and talk shop-tech all day long. The seasoned sales reps have a quick way of sizing up their customers and spending most of their time with the 5%-15% that are ready to buy now or will be ready very soon. Some have better methods than others but none are perfect, and when they misjudge or mistreat a customer then they almost always lose out on the sale but this is still more efficient for them than treating 100% of the customers as ready-to-buy.

Keep in mind that sales people are exactly what we make them. When making a large purchase we expect to be able to haggle on price and negotiate terms of the deal. We insist on being treated special when we pay cash, provide repeat business, purchase a top of the line product, etc. We also want personalized attention and follow-up before, during, and after the sale. We don't act this way when buying a toaster or other low-price, low-tech items which is why most retail businesses don't have sales people. When spending a lot of money or buying a high-tech item then we literally demand the services which sales people offer and thus we have to take the good with the bad.

Rather than fight it you should use it to your advantage. When purchasing my Tundra 4x4 DoubleCab 5.7L V8 Limited just a few weeks ago, I drove down to our regular dealer where the sales people change often enough that we don't have a regular rep. I parked out of site of the dealership so they wouldn't see our fairly new RAV4. I deliberately dressed down in comfortable sweats with a two-day beard to appear very casual and not made of cash. I took the wife in with me to show I was potentially ready to buy on the spot, even though she had nothing to do with the vehicle or my decision. My policy is to give the sale to the first rep that greets us and offers to help since some of them are not even motivated enough to say hello. A young guy greeted us immediately. He was actually standing outside in the rain to get the first dibs on new traffic while all the veterans were huddled inside drinking coffee: I liked his attitude.

Right off the bat I told him exactly how it would go: I had a sizeable cash down payment and was pre-approved for financing. I purchased several Toyotas from this same dealership in the past 5 years. I was ready to buy a new truck within the next week but not on my first visit regardless of what deal he offered. I told him the key to winning my business would be to find the exact truck I wanted, then offer me the best price which I would determine by getting quotes on the same vehicle from 5 other local dealers. I told him I already had all the reports from edmunds showing the dealer costs, holdback, etc. and that I would allow them a fair but not excessive profit. I told him there was no need for the typical games of copying or holding my license, including hidden fees which show up on the pink slip during the financing, or pulling a bait-and-switch if they didn't have what I wanted in stock. I said the wife was interested and I wanted her to be comfortable in the truck but she didn't really care what I purchased, which she confirmed by adjourning to the lounge for coffee, popcorn, and television while I shopped. I also told him I would be loyal to him and not work with another rep as long as he was good at follow-up and called me back when promised. This saved us both a lot of time which he appreciated since he now knew how to sell to me and what the rules were.

Right away he showed me a few Tundras and I looked at Tacomas too just for comparison (night and day, not even close). He took me on a test drive immediately without even knowing my last name. We got a price quote from him on the test drive model even though he didn't have the exact vehicle we wanted in stock. This helped us figure out what their starting point would be for negotiations. I left with a brochure, reviewed the option codes and researched model differences online, then called him the next day with the factory option codes for the exact vehicle I wanted. Being realistic I also told him which options I was flexible on: top 3 colors, things I could install later on my own, etc. Turns out he got the perfect truck in later that day so I went back down. We looked at it, test drove it briefly, then went to his desk to haggle price. I had my laptop and a price calculator file which I created in Excel. I just punched in the option codes and it showed me the dealer invoice / holdback and calculated the profit of his offer versus my top price, estimated loan payments, etc. I showed it to him and told him my top price which was non-negotiable. He tried to get me to come up twice and I stood firm. He eventually came down to within $500 but I said I was walking since they didn't meet my best and only offer. They let me walk out that night over $500 which surprised me but then the next morning they called me and came down another $300 so I went in to close the deal, which ended up just $200 over my original price. MSRP was $42,103 and I paid $39,200 which was 7% below MSRP but still 3% above invoice. I felt this was very fair since this specific vehicle was hard to get and 1 of four in my region, the Tundras are still in heavy demand, most other dealers I called wouldn't even come close to the offer price, and some dealers laughed or hung up on me when I said I had a quote below MSRP.

All of this took no more than 2 hours of the sales rep's time and I didn't bug him with stupid questions like "is this the big motor", "what does 4-LO mean", "what is the inner diameter of the spring-shaft-turny-thingy-left-modal-bolt-infometer", or whatever. Anything I needed to know I found out myself ahead of time since I wouldn't trust a sales rep to have all the right facts anyway, especially not the technical stuff on a new vehicle, and because I believe it is best to be an educated customer. The wife and I also spent less time in the dealership and we got a great deal which we feel good about, no stress or fuss.

If you aren't willing to do a lot of the work yourself or you want every sales rep to treat you like gold regardless of the situation then you will have to keep shopping until you get lucky. There just aren't that many out there that are good and treat all customers the same, and the good reps tend to move on due to promotions or better offers.

[laytonj1]

^^^^^^
Well said.

Jim

[marionpd108]

Nice post, Wileetundra! It may have been a long read, but it shows how we should approach a vehicle purchase. I am not out to screw anyone over, but I don't think they should be getting the Vasoline ready for me when I walk in the door, either! We should all do our homework before going shopping for anything. That way we will be able to make an informed decision and smell the BS coming from farther away.

[wileetundra]

As a reward for those of you who were patient enough to read my long-winded post, I have decided to share the Excel file which I used during price negotiations with the dealer. This is valuable for anyone that has Microsoft Excel installed on their computer and is planning to buy a Tundra. Instructions are simple as follows:

1. Download the file here and save it to your desktop
2. Open the file with Microsoft Excel
3. Edit the base vehicle info in rows 2-5 as needed, see edmunds.com for data
4. Place an "x" in the yellow fields to indicate which options you want on your vehicle
5. Review row 57 to see what the MSRP and Invoice totals are for your vehicle as configured
6. Enter the price quoted by the sales rep or your offer price in cell F57 to see how it compares to MSRP and Invoice
7. Place an "x" in the yellow fields in rows 60-64 to indicate which additional fees will be included (if any) then change the prices as needed
8. Review rows 66-68 to see your total cost and how much profit the dealer will make in each scenario
9. Edit the yellow loan fields in rows 69-73 as needed to estimate what your payments and total payback will be
10. Switch to the Dealers worksheet and enter contact info for all of your local dealers including several out of state or from another region. This is helpful when calling for quotes and it helps to show this to the sales rep / sales manager during final negotiations so they know you are serious about walking if they don't deal.

The factory option codes and prices are preloaded for the Tundra and should be the same for most vehicles. You can change anything in the file including the formulas for calculated fields: just select Tools... Protection... Unprotect Sheet and then all cells will be editable. No warranties expressed or implied. Hope this helps.

[awesomebase]

I think I gotta side with a little with you and more with the salesman. I'm not excusing bad behavior, but there is no incentive for a salesman to take you on a test drive if you aren't going to buy; especially at a time when there are others around that are willing to do so.
The best thing you can do is ask for a test drive when few if any people are around. That way the sales people actually look forward to it and don't feel like they may be missing out on a sale. I can only imagine that it is a difficult job dealing with people that constantly want to feel like they need "special" treatment.
I know for myself, I got annoyed going to a Toyota dealership here that is owned by CarMax. The very first thing they say is that the price is not negotiable! Like somehow this is a benefit to me (my wife said we should buy from anybody but them). I said "anything is negotiable" and she said "No sir, the price on the vehicle is the price that you pay". I just said "Uh-huh..." There was no way that I would do that and other than used cars, I can't see why anybody would see this as an advantage for new cars. Anyhow, I'm buying through another dealership, but I have to wait for the crew max editions to come out. Still, in general, you have to show that you're a) capable of purchasing the vehicle, b) not bias against the vehicle that you are looking at, c) not doing a test drive at a time when others are ready to buy (and you're not), and d) genuinely interested in what the salesperson is saying to get any positive response.
Chances are that if you look around, it isn't difficult to find a good salesperson. You just need to be up front about what you want to do and how you want to do it.
I have looked at several vehicles and each time I talk to the salesperson, I tell them that I'm interested in "a" truck and that I am not going to buy immediately until I've seen and learned about them and if they are willing to help me with their product, that I would be willing to listen and give it genuine consideration. Seasoned salespeople will basically give you a quick tour of the dealership and the vehicle inside and out. If they are good at what they do, they'll also offer to have you test drive it and even point out features while you are driving to give you a concrete example of how their product performs.
If you go in with the attitude that you are "challenging" them or trying to reinforce your purchase or "thinking" of their vehicle, you won't get anywhere. I suspect that is what happened with you when you drove up in your Titan. Maybe some clarity and better communication could have helped you a little more.

[MOREPOWER]

I test drove two 07 Tundras, both times I was offered to do so by the salesman, I also explained to him beforehand that I wasn't in the market, but I was interested checking out the truck, apparently they had time.
Had one dealer showing me the truck, he never offered to have me test drive it, and when another customer walked on the lot near us, I told him to go after them and thanked him for his time, no big deal for me, but that guy had a family to feed, I wasn't going to hold him up. Most often they assume you're actually going to buy, even tho you say you're not, because most people when they start looking don't want to buy from the first salesman or dealer, thats where the net helps out on browsing time.

[jajeh5]

Hey Wilee I noticed on your second tab all of your dealers where middle to west TN. Where did you purchase your truck from?

[TNK]

Prolly a good thing the salesman couldnt read thru this thread,most likely to expose the other side of the story and pretty well bet he had witness too.
Yet yall got the ropes out and are running around looking for a tree.trying to hang a man based on hear-say. Round this part of Texas its called a circle-jerk.

Aint that just something .....