I don't think I have ever seen a forum thread (I belong to several different automotive forums under different ID's) that has so completely and without question beat a topic to death.
I don't think I have ever seen a forum thread (I belong to several different automotive forums under different ID's) that has so completely and without question beat a topic to death.
Just quoting the sales figures. The topic really doesn't die until the sales figures and Toyota says it dies. Its an important topic since even Toyota has limited resources for future R&D. This is a particularly important time for those folks that "need" suvs vs those that just want to be "seen in one".
As the price of gas rises it will become less fashionable to drive an SUV unless its really needed. For those that need one or anticipate needing one, the R&D $ is likely to begin drying up for large SUVs. I suspect it'll be many years before hybrid or alternative energy SUVs meet the needs of the owners of large suvs.
Therefore its likely, as manufacturers begin to more closely examine their product portfolio's and R&D budgets, SUVs are likely to be trimmed in many ways. Number of models, number of years between refreshes, number of years between complete model overhauls. Essentially we'll be back in the business model of the 70's and 80's where the only folks buying Suburbans were those that needed them. Volumes were much lower than they are today and so were the number of different models. Suburbans generally went about 10 years between make-overs.
All of these business decisions will matter to current and future Sequoia owners which is what I thought this forum was all about. Toyota has far too many SUV models for a market that is about to change dramatically and they know it as evidenced by the plant slowdowns. As gas prices rise dramatically this Spring (as they always do and will again this year), folks will "really" give a second thought as to whether they "really" need a 13-16mpg full size suv.
As it becomes less "PC" to own a full-size suv (as it surely will) even the luxury suvs will take a hit as the wealthy move to the next "in" vehicle which is likely to be high end hybrids.
All the more reason why its my belief that Toyota will pull-in its R&D $ and dedicate them to less vehicles in the line-up. Its my guess that the Sequoia will be the only Full-size suv platform in the line-up. Instead of having 6 suv platforms (RAV, FJ, Highlander, 4Runner, Sequoia, LC), Toyota will trim the menu to 5 or possibly 4 suv platforms to better reflect the US market realities. Since the Sequoia/Tundra platform has a substantially larger market in the US than the LC/LX platform, there will be alot of financial incentives for Lexus to leverage the Sequoia platform into a high-end product while Toyota showrooms reduce floorspace for the non-existent sales of LCs.
Its my guess that a high end Sequoia would be a significant success and sell far more units than the current LX570. Time will tell if my assessment is correct.
That's an interesting perspective since some of the best offroading vehicles on (and off) the planet have IRS such as the military's Humvee HUMVEE. Also, the Land Rover, Range Rover, MB GL have been upgraded to IRS along with almost every off-road racer. I think those tied to live axles are living in the past with the nostalgic view of vehicles like the LC and the 50+ yr old tech of solid rear axles.
Heck...the lunar rover had IRS and you can't get further "off-road" than the moon
Sure, independent suspension helps if you are baja racing...
But you have obviously never been rock crawling.
If solid axles are such antiquated technology, why do current Rubicon Jeeps have both *front* and *rear* solid axles?
Why do off-road companies provide "Solid Axle Conversion" kits to people so they can ditch their weak, non-articulating IFS?
Ever heard of a 3 wheel stand? Welcome to IFS/IRS....
Also, you do realize that the LC is the best selling SUV worldwide right?
Toyota may drop it for the US, but it will still be making healthy sales on the rest of the planet.
Also, you do realize that the LC is the best selling SUV worldwide right?
Toyota may drop it for the US, but it will still be making healthy sales on the rest of the planet.
Yes ...I've stated many times that the LC will continue on in various versions around the world. Toyota has many vehicles that are sold outside that US that don't meet the needs of US consumers. I've posted various times in the past that Toyota used the very same approach with the Hi-Ace minivan which is one of the best selling minivans on the planet yet 99% of Americans have never heard of it. That's because it was replaced in the US during the 80's (when it was simply called the "Toyota Van") with the Previa which was then replaced by the current Sienna.
The Hi-Ace is still sold around the world today in high volume but not in the US and the Sienna is sold in the US but not in the rest of the world (with a few exceptions). The same outcome is likely for the LC.
I agree with you that a solid axle is best for rock climbing as it can be designed for greater "travel" and "articulation" than an IRS. Its also much easier for the shade tree mechanic to modify. Its much more complicated to modify or "lift" an 4wheel independent suspension than a solid axle design.
Somehow I find it difficult to envision today's new owner of a $75K Land Cruiser or a $85K LX570 caring much about rock climbing (or making the significant modifications to make it a serious rock-climber). Therefore the loss of this unique capability is not very likely to be on the minds of the Toyota US Marketing team that is focused on generating more unit sales instead of fulfilling the needs of a miniscule population of rock-climbing fans.
Toyota may drop it for the US, but it will still be making healthy sales on the rest of the planet.
200 series LX/LC will not be going anywhere anytime soon. Toyota Land Cruiser is up %80 year over year and the LX is up 156% from last march. Yes they do sell in low volumes but even at 12000 units per year Toyota can make a VERY large profit off this vehicle as it bear no US labour material cost except for shipping.
Sequioa was up 19.8% from last March. Not nearly as good year over year increase. Most likely the result of a missed opportunity on interior and MPG.
Also, you do realize that the LC is the best selling SUV worldwide right?
Toyota may drop it for the US, but it will still be making healthy sales on the rest of the planet.
One other thought on the LC/LX vehicles vs Sequoias. The profitability of a Sequoia is far greater than an LC or LX and much more important to Toyota's bottom line when evaluating the sales of these vehicles in the US. The "cost" for building a Sequoia that's built here in the US is in $'s. The vehicle is of course sold in $'s.
The cost for building a LC or LX is in Yen since its built in Japan but sold in $s. It is very possible that the LC and LX's are actually losing money even at $75K & $85K given the current exchange rate of the $ to Yen. Selling more LC's and LX's may actually be losing money when measured against the Toyota US bottom line (which of course is what the US Toyota Executives are compensated on).
If the $'s weakness continues (which I believe it will for the foreseeable future), import products like the LC & LX will be at an extreme cost disadvantage to US built products like the Sequoia (and Corolla, Camry, Avalon, Sienna, Tundra and RX).
Imported products with high cost structures vs the $ (like the LC, LX, Tacoma, Highlander, 4Runner, GX, FJ, Rav, Yaris, Prius, ES, LS, SC, GS, IS and Scion line) will each be given strong scrutiny to determine if they still have a place in the US market based on volume, growth potential and cost structure.
The entire Lexus line is in a sharp decline in the US with a Q1 08 drop of -8.3% vs last year. As compared to a Toyota 1Q 08 decline -4.4% vs last year. With another qtr or 2 like this last one you can expect some significant changes in the product line-up. I wouldn't be surprised to see the LX and SC becoming fatalities based on low volume unit sales (regardless of growth rate.)
Anyways, Everyone have their own opinion. There is no way I could change anyone's mind even if it is correct or not. With this being said, I love how the new Seq looks like. Awsome SUV.
Folding rear seat is an excellent idea.
Who cares how many air vent there is as long as it warms/cools the vehicle.
Who cares about Navigation when an aftermarket is way better then any oem navigation in any vehicle.
Who cares if your seat can bent you side ways, mine is good enough.
Who cares if your ride can crawl through rocks at 3 miles per hour.
Who cares how much you can tow or haul.
Bottom line is, What do YOU want? What do YOU need? and what options YOU like.
For those that do care, there are other vehicles with the options that you need/want, but I am not gonna justify myself by buying a 70-80,000 vehicle just so I can have more air vent. But again thats just me. In the other hand you do so it works for you, great. This is the power of options.
Oh and for the record, most or almost all large SUV are built base on truck platform, but let me tell you, it does not ride like a truck period.
Peace.
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Re: 2008 Toyota Sequoia interior....What a shame
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