2008 Toyota Sequoia interior....What a shame

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Originally Posted by Heatwave3

I think we would all do well to keep politics out of a Sequoia forum....particularly from folks that have absolutely no say in our US political process....such as non-US citizens..

Hey I didn't bring up or mention election until Tundrav8yamaha. Some of my family do get to vote and I would like them to vote for some change. BTW while we are on the topic...folks in the USA better wake up because there is going to be a HUGE change in the way America does things and viewed among the rest of the world after this election...


...back on topic.

The 5.7, the new 6sp and the IRS were clearly developed for the US market as they're not overed in the LC overseas...only here in the US. I'm very confident that this new drivetrain was developed for the new Tundra/Sequoia platform and then adapted to the LC/LX platform (for the US only) since you don't develop a new drivetrain for the lower selling older platform and then adapt it to the brand new platform that has much greater sales.

mmm. The 6 speed is used in the 4.5 diesel Landcruiser all over the world as well as the USA Tundra, Sequioa... The 5.7 is used also used in the 5.7 all over the world in Lexus 200 series application. Furthermore, the 200 series 5.7 is not built in Alabama as it manufactured in Japan. Same thing with the 6 speed. 5 speed is also a world tranmission designed/built in Japan. FYI the 5.7 is based off the 4.6 lexus motor which makes in very likely a Japanese design.

lower selling older platform

makes no sense. The 200 series outsells the Sequioa worldwide 3-1. Can haul more lbs, has more engine options, more tranmissions, tows almost as much, same GVWR, hauls 8 passengers, is a safer vehicle, has a stronger frame, stops faster, is built better, is more advanced, is more capable off road and on road, accelerates quicker and has a higher top speed.

[Heatwave3]

Hey I didn't bring up or mention election until Tundrav8yamaha. Some of my family do get to vote and I would like them to vote for some change. BTW while we are on the topic...folks in the USA better wake up because there is going to be a HUGE change in the way America does things and viewed among the rest of the world after this election...

Are things so boring in the cold white north for you canadians that you have to bring US politics into a forum on SUVs? The only "change" you should be worried about is the state of your critical tourism industry as the new border controls go into place this year combined with exchange rates that keep American tourists at home. (BTW, what genius in canada decided to name their currency the "Loonie" just because you have some duck on your coin?) Once your glaciers retreat this summer your economy is going to be alot more focused on the fact that American tourists are staying home than who wins our Presidency. BTW that same "change" you appear to support will overturn NAFTA in a NY minute which would devastate the canadian economy. Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

mmm. The 6 speed is used in the 4.5 diesel Landcruiser all over the world as well as the USA Tundra, Sequioa... The 5.7 is used also used in the 5.7 all over the world in Lexus 200 series application. Furthermore, the 200 series 5.7 is not built in Alabama as it manufactured in Japan. Same thing with the 6 speed. 5 speed is also a world tranmission designed/built in Japan. FYI the 5.7 is based off the 4.6 lexus motor which makes in very likely a Japanese design.

The 5.7 and 6sp tranny were designed and engineered in Toyota's R&D facilities in California for the US market and adapted for other suitable markets with enough income to support their deployment where Toyota could justify the needed pricing for these significant drivetrain upgrades originally designed for the US marketplace.

makes no sense. The 200 series outsells the Sequioa worldwide 3-1. Can haul more lbs, has more engine options, more tranmissions, tows almost as much, same GVWR, hauls 8 passengers, is a safer vehicle, has a stronger frame, stops faster, is built better, is more advanced, is more capable off road and on road, accelerates quicker and has a higher top speed.

Makes perfect sense to anyone looking at the situation from a business perspective instead of from an overly hyper product loyalty perspective. No one suggested the LC wouldn't be a suitable vehicle for ROW. In fact that's where its destined to survive on, just as the HiAce does in ROW while its been replaced with a far superior minivan (Sienna) dedicated to the US marketplace. Outdated LC platform = ROW. Sequoia platform = US. BTW - why would it matter to a canadian if Toyota decided to retain only the Sequoia/Tundra platform for Americans and drop the outdated and poorly selling LC/LX platform (sales in the US are essentially dead for the LC) from the US product lineup?

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HiAce does in ROW while its been replaced with a far superior minivan (Sienna) dedicated to the US marketplace

Hiace was never replaced by the Sienna. It was actually the Previa that was replaced by the Sienna.

. why would it matter to a canadian if Toyota decided to retain only the Sequoia/Tundra platform for Americans and drop the outdated and poorly selling LC/LX platform (sales in the US are essentially dead for the LC) from the US product lineup

200 series LX is up here in Canada. Landcrusiers were always availabe in Canada before the LX450 was introuced. I am looking at a new Suv. We have a imported 200 series Landcruiser here in GTA..so yeah it does matter to me.

There are only three thing thats Sequioa does in IMO that are better than the 200 series. Everything is better in 200 series from there on including the details. Fold flat seats, artificial high 10,000 tow capacity and interior room are what the Sequioa excels at...you should be driving a minivan if you don't need to tow. To me the interior size of the Sequioa is too big for my needs and I have no need for fold flat seats...plus the rear floor is now higher.

What really concerns me is how cheap the interior is made and lack of details compared to 1st gen Sequioa or Landcruiser and that is where my biggest beef is against the Sequioa. Come on..a spray painted dash and poor built quality and a cheap silver driver side...all this in $55,000 SUV is a shame.

It matter to me because all of this is because North American standards are lower compared to the rest of the world when it comes to interiors, payload and design of features for Toyota USA designed lineup. Yes the platinum can tow 8700lbs but the LC can haul pull 8500lbs yet has more payload.

Personally. I would give up a little in advertised towing capacity and rather have pull out rear seats that the hideous interior quality of the Sequioa's $55k pricetag...in that I would much rather see a better interior.

The Sequioa was never intended to replace the 100 series or 200 series Toyota SUVs. The Sequioa is not a premium product from Toyota. The LS, SC, 200 series are all premium markup products from Toyota. Premium products get the all the interior details, latest techonology, lowest defect of parts, high quality manufacturing facilities and are made closest to spec. There is a reason why Toyota Landcruiser engine was built in Japan whereas the Sequioa was made in Alabama.

The intention of the Seqiuoa was to establish a full size SUV for the north america market and in that it does very well. But to suggest the Sequioa was designed to replace the LC is wrong as the needs and income levels are much different in that LC income is close to $250k which is double that of the average Sequioa owner. Also the LX is in $340k range. A whole different buyer than the average Sequioa owner.

As for sales. The 200 series will sell just a many (if not a few more) units this year than they did 10 years ago when the 80 series was available and I think that is around 12-15k. I will gurantee you that Toyota will not sell as many Sequioa's this year (2008) then they did in 2001 (around 60k units) when 1st gen was introduced.

[Heatwave3]

Hiace was never replaced by the Sienna. It was actually the Previa that was replaced by the Sienna.

It appears you didn't read my earlier email. I'm the one that posted that the HiAce was replaced by the Previa in the late 80's which was sunsequently replaced with the Camry-based Sienna. To simplify I condensed the transition from HiAce to the Sienna in the US.

200 series LX is up here in Canada. Landcrusiers were always availabe in Canada before the LX450 was introuced. I am looking at a new Suv. We have a imported 200 series Landcruiser here in GTA..so yeah it does matter to me.

Why would what we have in the US matter to canada. You appear to get different products than the US and if your view is accurate that the LC is a better product than it should outsell the Sequoia and all you wishes for a long availability for the LC in canada will surely come true. OTOH, it gave up the ghost in the US market a long time ago.

There are only three thing thats Sequioa does in IMO that are better than the 200 series. Everything is better in 200 series from there on including the details. Fold flat seats, artificial high 10,000 tow capacity and interior room are what the Sequioa excels at...you should be driving a minivan if you don't need to tow. To me the interior size of the Sequioa is too big for my needs and I have no need for fold flat seats...plus the rear floor is now higher.

Convince enough of your canadian brethren to buy the LC over the sequoia and I'm sure you'll be able to fill several future garages with a brand new LC.

What really concerns me is how cheap the interior is made and lack of details compared to 1st gen Sequioa or Landcruiser and that is where my biggest beef is against the Sequioa. Come on..a spray painted dash and poor built quality and a cheap silver driver side...all this in $55,000 SUV is a shame.

Agreed, I wish it was of a nicer finish with more natural materials. For me that's a minor trade-off but I can understand how that would turn off some potential buyers...particularly those that are counting #s of vents and concerned about bolt covers.

Personally. I would give up a little in advertised towing capacity and rather have pull out rear seats that the hideous interior quality of the Sequioa's $55k pricetag...in that I would much rather see a better interior.

Personally, I would prefer a higher tow rating and fold flat seats without the inconvenience of dragging a 3rd row seat out of the back on my hands and knees. I'm confident that Toyota did their market research which would suggest that my personal preferences are probably in line with the majority of American consumers whereas your's were not supported by the customer data.

The Sequioa was never intended to replace the 100 series or 200 series Toyota SUVs. The Sequioa is not a premium product from Toyota. The LS, SC, 200 series are all premium markup products from Toyota. Premium products get the all the interior details, latest techonology, lowest defect of parts, high quality manufacturing facilities and are made closest to spec. There is a reason why Toyota Landcruiser engine was built in Japan whereas the Sequioa was made in Alabama.

Don't click your heels three times...you might end up in Kansas, Dorothy.

The intention of the Seqiuoa was to establish a full size SUV for the north america market and in that it does very well. But to suggest the Sequioa was designed to replace the LC is wrong as the needs and income levels are much different in that LC income is close to $250k which is double that of the average Sequioa owner. Also the LX is in $340k range. A whole different buyer than the average Sequioa owner.

As I said, that will be filled with an upscale version of the Sequoia as they refine the platform over the next decade and transition the LC to a ROW product. If you're fortunate, toyota will categorize canada as ROW.

As for sales. The 200 series will sell just a many (if not a few more) units this year than they did 10 years ago when the 80 series was available and I think that is around 12-15k. I will gurantee you that Toyota will not sell as many Sequioa's this year (2008) then they did in 2001 (around 60k units) when 1st gen was introduced.

Perhaps but my guess is they don't break 10,000 total LC/LX in the US, particularly if they end up offering incentives which will likely favor the Sequoia and not be offered on the LX.

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I'm the one that posted that the HiAce was replaced by the Previa in the late 80's which

HiAce was never sold in US or Canada.... Maybe Mexico. They actually still manufacture the Hiace as previa really never replaced anything in NA or anywhere else as they still make both.

Don't click your heels three times...you might end up in Kansas, Dorothy.

The Sequioa is appealing to a completely different buyer who has 1/2 the income as those who purchase 200 series. Most who purchase the Seqiuoa very likely are more affected by gas prices and higher finacing rates and more payments that those who are purchasing Landcruiser. I guess only Toyota knows the real sales stats.

The sequioa is nowhere on the same level as 200 series, Range Rover, Porche, Audi, and Mercdes premium SUVs

Perhaps but my guess is they don't break 10,000 total LC/LX in the US, particularly if they end up offering incentives which will likely favor the Sequoia and not be offered on the LX

they are on target for 12-15k and the Lx570 is sitting 8 days on the lot before it being sold. A lot faster than the Sequioa....8 days if fastest in the industry right now. 200 series looks like it is selling well.

below is from Wallstreet journal

1. Lexus LX (8 days on lot)
2. Audi A5/S5 (12 days)
3. Toyota Prius (14 days)
4. Lexus GX (15 days)
5. Buick Enclave (16 days)
6. Cadillac CTS (19 days)
7. Honda CR-V (20 days)
8. M-B C class (20 days)
9. Toyota Highlander (21 days)
10. Lexus ES (23 days)
11. Nissan Rogue (23 days)
12. Lexus GS (23 days)
13. Porche Cayenne (23 days)
14. Lexus LS (23 days

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Agreed, I wish it was of a nicer finish with more natural materials.

Thank you. That was the whole point of this thread.

[Heatwave3]

HiAce was never sold in US or Canada.... Maybe Mexico. They actually still manufacture the Hiace as previa really never replaced anything in NA or anywhere else as they still make both.

Incorrect....the HiAce was sold in the US during the 1980's and was called the "Toyota Van". Exact same vehicle as the HiAce which was sold throughout the rest of the world at the time. Obviously the term HiAce was a name that didn't resonate with Americans as a minivan. The Toyota Van was replaced by the US only product of the Previa which was later replaced by the Sienna. Neither the Previa or Sienna are sold in any significant #s outside the US while the HiAce/"Toyota Van" continues to be sold to ROW.
Toyota Van - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Sequioa is appealing to a completely different buyer who has 1/2 the income as those who purchase 200 series.

Sounds like an unsubstantiated opinion...got any facts to support that claim? I could have afforded any of the vehicles on your list and chose the Plat sequoia. I traded a 740il for a Denali XL because it was a better vehicle for my needs.

While income matters, needs matter more. The Sequoia is simply a superior vehicle from an interior flexibility and space perspective vs the LC/LX. Hands down. The fact that I get to keep an extra $20K in my pocket is a nice bonus.

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Sounds like an unsubstantiated opinion...got any facts to support that claim?

from contractcostaltimes.

Since its introduction, Sequoia had maintained one of the youngest buyers in the large SUV segment with an average age of 40. It is a family hauler, since nearly 60 percent of Sequoia owners are married with children. They have an average household income of $106,000.

From the Toyota pressroom.
t
the new Land Cruiser target buyer is 60 percent male and 84 percent are married with a median household income of $240,000. Its rugged character will appeal to buyers seeking traditional Land Cruiser off-road performance, durability and reliability.

From edmunds
Prospective LX owners (household income in excess of $385,000, so the marketing wizards at Lexus say)

Like I said before. The Sequioa is not offered to replace the 200 series...It is there so Toyota can offer a USA built mass produced full size SUV like the GMC, Ford, Chevy and Nissan alternatives. The 200 series is offered for those who are looking at a Range Rover, Mercedes, Audi. The Sequioa nad the 200 series appeal to two different demongraphics with different income levels and needs. Because of that. 200 series is not going anywhere anytime soom. Also, Toyota has even admitted that the Sequioa was not designed for offroad adventures.

I could have afforded any of the vehicles on your list and chose the Plat sequoia.

You are so transparent...BMW has gone to $hit and GMC is very poor at staying on the road...anything will feel like an upgrade from a GMC.

The Sequoia is simply a superior vehicle from an interior flexibility and space perspective vs the LC/LX

Right and where the Sequioa excels in being larger and has fold flat seats it has a very poor payload compared to Landcruiser.

The 200 series can haul more stuff inside while towing just about the same trailer as yours while offering a nicer materials and more safety and better integrated nav system and state of the art interior cooling...yes the whole point of this thread was to review the interior of the Sequioa.

At the begining of this thread I did say that the fold flat seats are the best feature of this vehicle I also mentioned that leather was a step up from Tundra, interior has all the features, 2nd row console is good, and climate on the steering wheel is a nice add.

What bothers me about this Sequioa is the embarassing use of (Dodge grade) materials on a $55k vehicle. The door panels, silver instrument panels, hollow dash that is spray painted (come on a spray painted dash), outdated navigation system (while they will put the upgraded nav in LX/LC and LS models), interior fit and finish that is good but not as good as older Toyota's

For me I will give up some interior function for a slightly better interior, more payload and a little better ergonomics.. In the Sequioa's case I would want a much better interior for $55k vehicle.

I am not sure if you have ever owned a Toyota before. But in 2005 they started changing...I have never read so much critism in regards to the new Camry, Tundra and Sequioa in the mainstream press and forums like this. I hear bed bounce, transmission flare for Camry, rumble strip 6 speed in Tundra, rear tailgate that peel apart, camshafts failure, hissing interior of new 2008 sequioa, Just recently Toyota Tundra was classified a unreliable for 4x4 versions from CR.

I don't read as much negative stuff from the Japanese made Toyota's

I am not all that against the rear flat fold seats, tow capacity and size (I don't need these three things) but others do and will say that it is good that Toyota offers this vehicle. What I am against is the interior quality, poor payload and good old Toyota toughness that I believe this Toyota lacks.

[Tundrav8yamaha]

page its totally unacceptable to base figures on household incomes because largely these figures are misleading to some degree. seq owners can buy whatever car suits there needs just like a highlander hybrid or tundra owner can.I love the social justification that if you own a Lexus your rich that is not always the case from many economical decisions customers do.There are a lot of people out there driving luxury cars and barely making the payments.

[Heatwave3]

Since its introduction, Sequoia had maintained one of the youngest buyers in the large SUV segment with an average age of 40. It is a family hauler, since nearly 60 percent of Sequoia owners are married with children. They have an average household income of $106,000.

From the Toyota pressroom.
t
the new Land Cruiser target buyer is 60 percent male and 84 percent are married with a median household income of $240,000. Its rugged character will appeal to buyers seeking traditional Land Cruiser off-road performance, durability and reliability.

From edmunds
Prospective LX owners (household income in excess of $385,000, so the marketing wizards at Lexus say)

All old data based on the previous gen Sequoia that was lower priced and lower featured. I'm confident that the Market research done on the new Sequoia showed much higher incomes that support the sequoia with higher end features.

Like I said before. The Sequioa is not offered to replace the 200 series...It is there so Toyota can offer a USA built mass produced full size SUV like the GMC, Ford, Chevy and Nissan alternatives. The 200 series is offered for those who are looking at a Range Rover, Mercedes, Audi. The Sequioa nad the 200 series appeal to two different demongraphics with different income levels and needs. Because of that. 200 series is not going anywhere anytime soom. Also, Toyota has even admitted that the Sequioa was not designed for offroad adventures.

Incorrect...it just a matter of time. And obviuosly you haven't read the new Sequoia brochure which has a 2 page spread highlighting its off-road capabilities. Using the same drivetrain as the LC and LX with the exception of the much improved IRS on the Sequoia vs the outdated solid axle rear of the LC platform.

You are so transparent...BMW has gone to $hit and GMC is very poor at staying on the road...anything will feel like an upgrade from a GMC.

I have no clue what you mean by transparent. Actually the GMC Denali was one of the best vehicles I've owned and much preferred it to the 740IL ...believe it or not.

Right and where the Sequioa excels in being larger and has fold flat seats it has a very poor payload compared to Landcruiser.

Were you planning on lugging concrete bags to the worksite in that LC?

The 200 series can haul more stuff inside while towing just about the same trailer as yours while offering a nicer materials and more safety and better integrated nav system and state of the art interior cooling...yes the whole point of this thread was to review the interior of the Sequioa.

The only way the LC is hauling more stuff than the Sequoia is for the LC to tow a trailer. Gotta love those well-designed 3rd row seats in the LC that fold up against the side windows blocking most of the rear storage area. Now that's a creative design.

What bothers me about this Sequioa is the embarassing use of (Dodge grade) materials on a $55k vehicle. The door panels, silver instrument panels, hollow dash that is spray painted (come on a spray painted dash), outdated navigation system (while they will put the upgraded nav in LX/LC and LS models), interior fit and finish that is good but not as good as older Toyota's

To each his own, as I stated nicer materials and finish would have been preferred however the materials and finish have actually turned out to be much better than expected. Once additional refinements are built in the interior of the Sequoia you'll be able to count the remaining days for the LC platform in the US on 1 hand.

I don't read as much negative stuff from the Japanese made Toyota's.

So move to Japan.

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Originally Posted by Tundrav8yamaha

page its totally unacceptable to base figures on household incomes because largely these figures are misleading to some degree. seq owners can buy whatever car suits there needs just like a highlander hybrid or tundra owner can.I love the social justification that if you own a Lexus your rich that is not always the case from many economical decisions customers do.There are a lot of people out there driving luxury cars and barely making the payments.

All I am saying that the two models appeal to different demongraphics with different income levels which explains why there is still a market although limited market for 200 series. People making $240k per year likely view a vehicle differently than someone who is pulling $106k and a has a family, mortgage and is likely more affected by gas prices, economy etc etc. Not to say that the $240k person doesn't have these issues but is far less affected by the economy.

There are a lot of people out there driving luxury cars and barely making the payments

Not my problem. It just like the people who have bigger houses for what they can afford.

[Heatwave3]

All I am saying that the two models appeal to different demongraphics with different income levels which explains why there is still a market although limited market for 200 series. People making $240k per year likely view a vehicle differently than someone who is pulling $106k and a has a family, mortgage and is likely more affected by gas prices, economy etc etc. Not to say that the $240k person doesn't have these issues but is far less affected by the economy.

I think this perspective is both out of date and planned for change by Toyota. Page, I think you're perspective is far too rearward biased and LC loyal. The Sequoia is now far more upscale with the platinum edition of the new platform. Its my belief that it will migrate even more upscale with interior refinement over time, particularly if the Platinum becomes an unexpected success with sales of more than 10% of the total Sequoia units sales. And I believe it will.

As the Plat successfully moves upward in image its will eventually crowd the LC out of the Toyota Lineup. Once that happens the LX is a goner and Toyota will quickly fill the void with a significantly upscaled version of the Sequoia exclusively for Lexus. The only question is how fast this transition will occur in the US. I believe the speed will be directly proportional to the following data points:

• How successful the Platinum Sequoia turns out to be in terms of units sales over the next 3 years. Since the previous gen Seq only had the SR-5 and Ltd models, IMO Toyo is testing the success of a higher end Seq model (Plat) that could eventually replace the LC platform.
• How fast the LC units sales decline in the US? I believe over the next 2 yrs the LC will die a quick death stuck between the 4Runner and new Sequoia.
• How well the LX performs in terms of units sales in the US? I suspect the LX will have relatively poor uninspiring sales as the Sequoia gains a real foothold in the next 24 months.

[Tundrav8yamaha]

Originally Posted by Heatwave3

I think this perspective is both out of date and planned for change by Toyota. Page, I think you're perspective is far too rearward biased and LC loyal. The Sequoia is now far more upscale with the platinum edition of the new platform. Its my belief that it will migrate even more upscale with interior refinement over time, particularly if the Platinum becomes an unexpected success with sales of more than 10% of the total Sequoia units sales. And I believe it will.

As the Plat successfully moves upward in image its will eventually crowd the LC out of the Toyota Lineup. Once that happens the LX is a goner and Toyota will quickly fill the void with a significantly upscaled version of the Sequoia exclusively for Lexus. The only question is how fast this transition will occur in the US. I believe the speed will be directly proportional to the following data points:

• How successful the Platinum Sequoia turns out to be in terms of units sales over the next 3 years. Since the previous gen Seq only had the SR-5 and Ltd models, IMO Toyo is testing the success of a higher end Seq model (Plat) that could eventually replace the LC platform.
• How fast the LC units sales decline in the US? I believe over the next 2 yrs the LC will die a quick death stuck between the 4Runner and new Sequoia.
• How well the LX performs in terms of units sales in the US? I suspect the LX will have relatively poor uninspiring sales as the Sequoia gains a real foothold in the next 24 months.

I think sales of the platinum will be killed within a few year's just like Avalon having this trim level for the 1999 model platinum edition which never returned ever again in that model . Allthought im sure you justify your purchase like the rest of us loyal owners I do disagree with you on a few physical aspects on platinum replacing luxury name plates which doesn't compare. Toyota has always been Value not Luxury .Should we compare an Avalon to the Ls460? sadly different class inself since These Nitch nameplates have there place.Number one the data on first gen seq owners very likely will remain the same Toyota didn't go upscale with this model period just raised the content of a new powerfull 5.7 liter v8/6 speed.

When it come to Buyer demograhic I know a ts member who had a 2004 seq limited ($40k)who is 22 years old switched to a Diesal Dodge ram 05 then to a new 07 Tundra limited Trd crewmax yet his income didn't exceed those levels as found on those reports.Wile outsourced date is good for buyer demographic it can be very misleading in a few ways thus not a good source of information in my book.I have enjoyed this post to some degree but put off on the remarks back and fourth however its been a great debate I have to say. I'm heading home it's been intresting reading this thread as I have not much to say at present.

[Heatwave3]

Originally Posted by Tundrav8yamaha

I think sales of the platinum will be killed within a few year's just like Avalon having this trim level for the 1999 model platinum edition which never returned ever again in that model . Allthought im sure you justify your purchase like the rest of us loyal owners I do disagree with you on a few physical aspects on platinum replacing luxury name plates which doesn't compare. Toyota has always been Value not Luxury .Should we compare an Avalon to the Ls460? sadly different class inself since These Nitch nameplates have there place.Number one the data on first gen seq owners very likely will remain the same Toyota didn't go upscale with this model period just raised the content of a new powerfull 5.7 liter v8/6 speed.

When it come to Buyer demograhic I know a ts member who had a 2004 seq limited ($40k)who is 22 years old switched to a Diesal Dodge ram 05 to a new 07 Tundra limited Trd crewmax yet his income didn't exceed those levels as found on those reports.Wile date is good from buyer demographic it can be very misleading in a few ways thus not a good source of information.I have enjoyed this post to some degree but put off on the remarks back and fourth however its been a great debate I have to say. I'm heading home it's been intresting reading this thread as I have not much to say at present.

They are are just opinions so don't take mine or anyone else's too seriously. Toyota's a large corporation and they make their decisions based on self-interest and profit. If maintaining a broad, extensive and sometimes overlapping product portfolio makes more money than a more limited portfolio, then they'll keep products like the LC and the sequoia together on the showroom floor for as long as the money is rolling in. When its stops, they will adjust accordingly. Its just my outsider opinion (and only an opinion of one) that a less overlapping and more limited menu of products will in the end make more money for Toyota.

BTW I don't consider myself necessarily loyal to Toyota or for that matter even the Sequoia. I buy the vehicle I like that best fits my needs at the time. I pay in cash and generally cost is a not a limitng factor (within reason), although I like a good deal as much as the next guy. As I've posted before I've owned BMWs, Pontiacs, Buicks, Nissans, Toyotas, GMC's, Cadillacs and VW. In each case they were the car that best met my needs and I leave a manufacturer as soon as someone else makes a better product.

I do own an Avalon and its my 3rd one (I actually owned a 99 Platinum Avalon - Lunar mist ...I think they all came in that color), simply because its my wife's car and that's what she likes, plus I'm comfortable in it and it has huge back seat leg room for tall kids. It wouldn't be my first choice but that's what she likes.

I'll stay with the Sequoia so long as its the best product to meet my needs which currently nothing else achieves. The real question is whether there's lots of folks with similar needs that end up considering the LC as I did and choosing the Sequoia or am I just an anomaly? Time and the marketplace will decide regardless of the opinions expressed here.....but aren't the opinions fun anyways?