I have just spent the last month going through somewhat of a nightmare getting a retrofit done on my '08 Tundra Crew Max. Here is what happened:
I ordered some retro headlights from Black Flame Customs in NY. He was to provide "high quality" aftermarket headlamps, FXR Projectors, Gatlin shrouds and satin black paint. He kept me updated on the progress of the headlamps and the pics looked awesome. Then I got the lights.
First thing I noticed was that there was several layers of electrical tape wrapped around the outside of the lamp assemblies. There was a note with the headlamps advising NOT to remove the tape as it covered a layer of Butyl rubber that was supposed to keep condensation out. It looked really bad. I contact Black Flame and was told that I could remove the tape and butyl rubber, and he was still confident the headlamps would be air tight. So I spent a couple of hours trying to remove most of that sticky junk. Then I went to change the bulbs out and notices that the bulb could not be inserted. Apparently the headlights had "shifted" in transit and something had "popped" out of place. I tried adjusting the screw to make the lamp assembly move in/out, but the screw would not engage so it just kept spinning.
I also noticed that the instructions advised you to cut the harness from the ballast, and to cut the stock harness from the low beam and splice them together. I was told that this was a "plug and play" setup? So I sent them back to Black Flame (cost me $45 to ship) and asked for a refund.
I got an email response saying that that he could only refund me for parts, not labor until/if he resells the lights. He then assured me that he would remove the butyl rubber and repair the headlamps. So I decided to give it another try.
I get the headlamps back with the butyl rubber only partially removed. I then proceeded to tap into the stock wiring and used some adapters to go to the ballast in case I ever needed to remove them and had to reinstall the OEM lights. Good thing I did. After trying to install the headlamp, I noticed that it would not fit. The plug to the HID bulb was making contact with the fender before the headlamp assembly could be bolted in. They didn't fit. I also noticed that he had used the butyl rubber on the INSIDE of the lamp assembly around the projector and it was clearly visible from the outside of the lamp.
Throughout this procedure, I was assure that all of these "little" problems were par for the course when doing a retro. And having to cut some metal away to make room for the was lamps is common. When I said that the electrical tape around the outside of the lamp assembly looked unprofessional, he replied that condensation in the lamp would look more unprofessional. I did call another HID Retrofitter and described the situation and he said that the methods used were NOT the "industry standard".
Long story short, I am sending the headlamps back again ($50 to ship this time) and will be lucky to recoup half of what I paid. Starting this thread may cost me the buyer of those headlights, but I would rather be honest and warn my fellow Tundra owners and lose some money, than recoup my losses and let some other poor guy go through what I went through. If you are looking to get an HID retrofit done, I would strongly advise against using Black Flame Customs.
Ken

I'm sorry to say this is my first time posting on the board, as it was my intention to join up on a few select forums for early 2011.

While I would prefer to keep business transactions between our business and the customer, it seems important in this situation to ensure that publicly posted information is correct because this particular feedback is not entirely accurate.

To respond to what has been said about a recent transaction regarding a set of 2008 Toyota Tundra Retrofit Headlights: Some information that was not mentioned includes that the complete package project was discounted $180 from the original quoted price, along with free items and upgrades and free shipping when returning items to the customer. Additionally, as is done with all of our projects, constant communication and requests for approval at each major step in the project, with accompanying pictures, was provided and met with the customer's approval.

With regards to our sealing method, one simple and clean layer of electrical tape was utilized - just enough to cover the butyl rubber and keep it from sticking to anything during installation, as is standard procedure on all of our headlight projects. When contacted about removing the electrical tape/precautionary butyl rubber sealant, no assurance was given about it being "air tight" if removed and in fact caution was given regarding our ability to guarantee a moisture-free product if it was removed. Our method of utilizing this extra sealant works flawlessly for keeping moisture out. While the butyl rubber/electrical tape is certainly visible on the uninstalled headlights, once installed on the vehicle the rubber/tape is minimally seen, and only so when the hood is open. Please note, two of the images that were posted show the very bottom of the gatling gun shrouds and it is NOT butyl rubber around the projector. We do not put any butyl rubber around the projectors as it would not last with the heat. What is seen in the picture is our epoxy, that actually keeps the projectors solidly mounted. It's un-noticeable when installed on the truck from average viewing angle.

The adjustment of the internal components did have an issue upon arrival at customer destination. This was not something related to our work. If the package is dropped, kicked, tossed or inappropriately handled during shipping any number of things can happen to the headlights and/or their internal components, which is why we take photo documentation before shipment (damage to any of the internals adjustment clips/pivots would not allow the lights to be assembled properly before shipment). To be clear, when the lights were shipped back to us to address these problems, a simple click into place of the internal adjust clip was all it took to fix the issue. Additionally, in changing the high beam bulbs (installing and plugging them in) there was no difficulty encountered when we did this - they were easily installed. The difficulty the customer had was not evident nor understandable, especially given our guidance via email to help walk him through it.

The term "plug-and-play" applies to these headlights. With any custom project, regardless of what it is, there will be some form of modification or effort required to make the product work and function as desired. With this particular project, it happened to be the splicing of four wires per side for ballast power and high beam solenoid trigger, not an uncommon modification. For example, take the popular "plug-and-play" HID kits that everyone often installs. Even these require installation, including mounting of the ballasts, running of wires and in a significant number of applications cutting holes to snake wires through. It's not as simple as plugging something in and having it work instantly. In our attempt to help with the cost of the project, which the customer verbalized was a concern as is with many customer's projects, splicing was suggested as the preferred installation method, versus utilizing a plug-in harness.

Unfortunately, the installation of the headlights was an unforeseen problem on both ends. Most vehicles have more than adequate room to install a projector with more than OEM depth with no issues. However, the 2008 Tundra and FX-R projector combo did not work out as expected. As shown in the OP's pictures, approximately 1/2" of inner fender sheet metal would need to be trimmed in order for the projector bulb plug to fit properly. Going back to the custom project note above, any custom project needs "tweaking" or "adjustments" to make it work and we always help walk the customers through any such necessary adjustments during installation, in addition to the pre-packaged instructions we send along with our finished product to help with this process.

An alternative, free-of-charge, no-cut solution was offered to remedy the HID bulb-plug fitment issue. Our supplier carries D2H bulbs, which use a different connection style that allow them to have a much more shallow base. This would have easily sorted the fender cutting issue. New ballasts would have been required, given the new connection style, but that is a one-bolt swap in (and would have been included at no cost). The customer decided not to accept this option.

I can not speak to what another "HID Retrofitter" stated regarding "industry standards." I do not know who was spoken to and the work experience, history and legitimacy of that particular business that wasn't named. I can only assure customers that my standards of practice, as can be seen from feedback on my website, have resulted in quality results and satisfaction over the years. When any difficulties have risen, our priority is mending them immediately to ensure satisfaction with the custom project.
In our years of doing custom headlights, with over 100+ sets this year alone, we've not had a single customer complaint that was not able to be remedied, and certainly have never had any issues with a customer rising to this level of dissatisfaction. Issues can be expected from time to time with any custom project, especially when people have particular wants and needs. We pride ourselves in our customer service, communication and ability to rise to customer standards and provide projects per customers' specifications.

It is unfortunate that the customer was not satisfied, especially given our many attempts to help remedy anything that was seen as an issue. We have discussed the refund process. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts at fixing issues that arose, and providing guidance and education, sometimes expectations and preferences don't align with the logistics of retrofitting. We are truly sorry that this customer's project did not end up to his liking, as our goal is not only quality product but consistent, quality customer service and satisfaction.

Thank you
~JB @ BFC

^^They always say there is two sides to a story. It is never good when you have an unhappy customer, but your response it very well written!

^ I agree, pretty professional response. I do have to question one thing, if the package getting dropped or kicked damages the headlights, how do they hold up when on the truck? I know my headlights have been bounced, jolted, and even smacked with pigeon. Sounds odd to think a dropped headlight would no longer accept a bulb. Maybe I'm not picturing it.:beatsme: Probably a small problem if its just a clip. I hate to hear about costumers not being happy, but hopefully both parties take the situation as a learning experience and move on wiser. Modifying can be a real headache.... until your truck looks like Marky's, then it's just a superpower over chicks! :heh:

my headlights have been bounced, jolted, and even smacked with pigeon.


.... :pound:



.

^ I agree, pretty professional response. I do have to question one thing, if the package getting dropped or kicked damages the headlights, how do they hold up when on the truck? I know my headlights have been bounced, jolted, and even smacked with pigeon. Sounds odd to think a dropped headlight would no longer accept a bulb. Maybe I'm not picturing it.:beatsme: Probably a small problem if its just a clip. I hate to hear about costumers not being happy, but hopefully both parties take the situation as a learning experience and move on wiser. Modifying can be a real headache.... until your truck looks like Marky's, then it's just a superpower over chicks! :heh:

Thanks for your comment. A quick explanation of the shipping damage scenario is simply that the lights are well packed in their boxes, but are horizontal (the internals are facing up and down as opposed to frontwards-to-backwards---or parallel to the ground as opposed to perpendicular). This places all of the shock absorbing capabilities on the internal pivot points in a manner for which they weren't designed.

So...if a happy(sarcasm) truck loader or package handler tosses the box, drops it from a height, kicks it, slams it---or does what-have-you to the box during shipment, the "guts" of the headlight can pop lose.

Sounds crazy I know, I didn't believe it either until it happened on a few of our shipments. Which we had to sort out. I hope the explanation made sense.

QUOTE: I'm sorry to say this is my first time posting on the board, as it was my intention to join up on a few select forums for early 2011.
While I would prefer to keep business transactions between our business and the customer, it seems important in this situation to ensure that publicly posted information is correct because this particular feedback is not entirely accurate. END QUOTE.
I would have preferred this as well. After not less than 50 emails back and forth, I could not get the answers that I wanted, and was expected to accept the headlamps for what they were. I have been TOTALLY honest with my posts, and please note that everything posted in BLACK are JBs words (from his post, or copied and pasted from emails between he and I) and test in RED is my reply. Sorry for the lengthy thread, but this needs to be posted.
QUOTE: To respond to what has been said about a recent transaction regarding a set of 2008 Toyota Tundra Retrofit Headlights: Some information that was not mentioned includes that the complete package project was discounted $180 from the original quoted price, along with free items and upgrades and free shipping when returning items to the customer. END QUOTE.
While I appreciate the “discount”, I was never told that I was getting one. I was told that he was getting in some new 55w ballasts/bulbs that he was willing to give me instead of the 35 watt setup. I think the discount came about when we discussed me running a group buy for the headlamps if and when my headlamps were installed and I was happy with the setup.
As for the free shipping, I paid over $90 to ship the headlamps back to Black Flame (twice). It is normal for a distributor/shop to pay for return shipping (back to customer) when performing a warranty repair. It was not my fault the headlamps did not work out of the box. I would have GLADLY paid “full” price to avoid the problems.
QUOTE: Additionally, as is done with all of our projects, constant communication and requests for approval at each major step in the project, with accompanying pictures, was provided and met with the customer's approval. END QUOTE
This is absolutely true. JB is a GREAT communicator. The pictures looked AWESOME. My problem was that the headlamps I received did not look exactly like the the headlamps in the pictures (electrical tape wrapped all the way around the outside, etc.
QUOTE: With regards to our sealing method, one simple and clean layer of electrical tape was utilized - just enough to cover the butyl rubber and keep it from sticking to anything during installation, as is standard procedure on all of our headlight projects. END QUOTE.
Not true. There were several layers of electrical tape covering a LOT of butyl rubber around the seal on the headlamps. When I emailed JB about the rubber/tape issue, here was his response: “Ken- Gotcha, I see what you're saying now. I tried to cover it as neatly as possible with the tape, but a single 1.5-2" piece of black tape would probably be a bit better suited--appearance wise”.
The single layer of tape was my idea to try and “clean up” the look. I spent a couple of hours removing the tape he had installed and thinning out the butyl rubber. I tried to find a suitable replacement for the tape that would look more like an outer seal, but no luck. I could live with a “bead” of silicon type sealant or something that looks similar, but this looked REALLY bad. Frankly, it was embarrassing and anyone who mods their truck (that means you ModFather!) would never have put the headlamps on their truck the way they looked. The best mods are the ones that look “original”. Otherwise we would all be using duct tape and Gorilla Glue!
QUOTE: When contacted about removing the electrical tape/precautionary butyl rubber sealant, no assurance was given about it being "air tight" if removed and in fact caution was given regarding our ability to guarantee a moisture-free product if it was removed. Our method of utilizing this extra sealant works flawlessly for keeping moisture out. While the butyl rubber/electrical tape is certainly visible on the uninstalled headlights, once installed on the vehicle the rubber/tape is minimally seen, and only so when the hood is open. END QUOTE.
JB is right. He did not use the words “air tight”. When I emailed him about removing the butyl rubber altogether her was his response: “The black adhesive, the butyl rubber, is an extre precaution. There is a bunch of sealant between the lens and the back black mounting portion-- so you should be ok. I just like that extra insurance. I use the heat method on most lights, and the sealant is 99% enough to heat them back together.” SO, I was thinking of the 99% as being “air tight. My fault. Again, there has to be a less obnoxious looking way to add extra sealant.
QUOTE: Please note, two of the images that were posted show the very bottom of the gatling gun shrouds and it is NOT butyl rubber around the projector. We do not put any butyl rubber around the projectors as it would not last with the heat. What is seen in the picture is our epoxy, that actually keeps the projectors solidly mounted. It's un-noticeable when installed on the truck from average viewing angle. END QUOTE.
OK, my mistake again. Not butyl rubber, epoxy. It is still visible from the outside of the headlamp unless viewing from straight on. This was a relatively minor issue, but just added to my frustration
QUOTE: The adjustment of the internal components did have an issue upon arrival at customer destination. END QUOTE.
Blatantly untrue. Look at the pics that I attached of the high beam bulb plug. One picture is of the stock headlamp and the other is of the aftermarket Black Flame headlamp. There was no possible way to plug the bulb into the Black Flame lamp as the reflector assembly was so far recessed that you could not plug the OEM harness into the bulb receptacle. Again, I tried adjusting the headlamps and they would not budge.
QUOTE: This was not something related to our work. If the package is dropped, kicked, tossed or inappropriately handled during shipping any number of things can happen to the headlights and/or their internal components, which is why we take photo documentation before shipment (damage to any of the internals adjustment clips/pivots would not allow the lights to be assembled properly before shipment). To be clear, when the lights were shipped back to us to address these problems, a simple click into place of the internal adjust clip was all it took to fix the issue. Additionally, in changing the high beam bulbs (installing and plugging them in) there was no difficulty encountered when we did this - they were easily installed. The difficulty the customer had was not evident nor understandable, especially given our guidance via email to help walk him through it. END QUOTE.
The pics I took speak for themselves. And as far as the “guidance” goes, when I emailed him PHOTOS of the headlamps explaining the problem he replied: “If you had an issue getting a clip on the bulb or installing these, I would highly recommend a local mechanic.” For the record, I am 46 years old. I have worked in the automotive industry for more than 15 years (as a mechanic, and at Vetronix Corp. now owned by Bosch doing on vehicle testing using their OEM and aftermarket scantools), I worked as a Broadcast Engineer for another 7 years repairing electrical equipment at radio stations from the studio, to the transmitter to the tower, so I am very mechanically inclined and know my way around a car and electronics. I have done TONS of mods to a LOT of vehicles. I don’t need a mechanic to change a bulb.
QUOTE: The term "plug-and-play" applies to these headlights. With any custom project, regardless of what it is, there will be some form of modification or effort required to make the product work and function as desired. With this particular project, it happened to be the splicing of four wires per side for ballast power and high beam solenoid trigger, not an uncommon modification. For example, take the popular "plug-and-play" HID kits that everyone often installs. Even these require installation, including mounting of the ballasts, running of wires and in a significant number of applications cutting holes to snake wires through. It's not as simple as plugging something in and having it work instantly. In our attempt to help with the cost of the project, which the customer verbalized was a concern as is with many customer's projects, splicing was suggested as the preferred installation method, versus utilizing a plug-in harness. END QUOTE.
This is not true. When I asked JB if any hard wiring would be required he replied “The complete setup will be plug and play. If there is any wiring, which with most of the components I use there isnt, it would be a simple small wiring harness installation NO splicing, cutting, soldering or anything of the sort.” His words, not mine. I was quoted for a “Plug-and-play wiring setup”. I fully understand that I would have to mount the ballasts, and did not mind tapping into the high beam for the solenoid, but the instructions with this kit advised to “cut” the harness from the ballast and “cut” (and discard if you like) the OEM low beam harness and splice the two together. This is not plug and play and the option of splicing to lower cost was NEVER discussed.
QUOTE: Unfortunately, the installation of the headlights was an unforeseen problem on both ends. I vehicles have more than adequate room to install a projector with more than OEM depth with no issues. However, the 2008 Tundra and FX-R projector combo did not work out as expected. As shown in the OP's pictures, approximately 1/2" of inner fender sheet metal would need to be trimmed in order for the projector bulb plug to fit properly. Going back to the custom project note above, any custom project needs "tweaking" or "adjustments" to make it work and we always help walk the customers through any such necessary adjustments during installation, in addition to the pre-packaged instructions we send along with our finished product to help with this process. END QUOTE
I guess my mistake was assuming that Black Flame had done Tundra or Sequoia retros before. I did expect to have to make room for harnesses, etc. but did not expect to have to cut any metal to make room for the new projector headlamps. I don’t really consider this an “adjustment” or “tweaking”.
QUOTE: An alternative, free-of-charge, no-cut solution was offered to remedy the HID bulb-plug fitment issue. Our supplier carries D2H bulbs, which use a different connection style that allow them to have a much more shallow base. This would have easily sorted the fender cutting issue. New ballasts would have been required, given the new connection style, but that is a one-bolt swap in (and would have been included at no cost). The customer decided not to accept this option. END QUOTE.
This is true. But by this time I had spent too much time trying to make these lights works and was thoroughly frustrated. I was not happy with the quality of the aftermarket headlamps or the install. Again, my mistake, but after several emails from JB saying things like: “Ken- I COMPLETELY feel your frustration 100% on this setup. I feel like crying...well not really, but let's say I'll drink an extra beer at the expense of these lights” or “Sorry for this, for whatever reason these lights don't want to be in your truck.” I expected that he would offer a refund, only to find out that I would be refunded for parts only, until he could sell the headlamps to another customer. That is why I posted in the first place. Like I said, it is probably going to cost me, but I don’t want another Tundra owner going through what I went through.
QUOTE: I can not speak to what another "HID Retrofitter" stated regarding "industry standards." I do not know who was spoken to and the work experience, history and legitimacy of that particular business that wasn't named. I can only assure customers that my standards of practice, as can be seen from feedback on my website, have resulted in quality results and satisfaction over the years. When any difficulties have risen, our priority is mending them immediately to ensure satisfaction with the custom project.
In our years of doing custom headlights, with over 100+ sets this year alone, we've not had a single customer complaint that was not able to be remedied, and certainly have never had any issues with a customer rising to this level of dissatisfaction. Issues can be expected from time to time with any custom project, especially when people have particular wants and needs. We pride ourselves in our customer service, communication and ability to rise to customer standards and provide projects per customers' specifications. END QUOTE.
I spoke to Caesar at LightWerkz.net and asked his advice on my situation and what procedures he uses. Keep in mind that Caesar has done TONS of Tundras and Sequoias and is very familiar with them (wish I had known this to start with). JB said in one email “Lightwerkz does great work too, I know Caesar the owner over there.” He advised that he knew other retrofitters used different materials to ensure water tightness on the headlamps, but had never heard of anyone using the butyl rubber and electrical tape. He said he usually runs a small bead of sealant around the seam of the headlamps. Check out this THREAD (http://www.tundratalk.net/forums/buy-sell/89352-bhlm-sale.html). AlwaysLooking is a member of another forum that has done a bunch of black painted headlight mods (amongst a TON of other mods, check out his pics) and has never had an issue with condensation without adding any external material. While I totally understand the insurance of adding something to ensure water tightness, the butyl rubber and electrical tape just looked awful.
QUOTE: It is unfortunate that the customer was not satisfied, especially given our many attempts to help remedy anything that was seen as an issue. We have discussed the refund process. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts at fixing issues that arose, and providing guidance and education, sometimes expectations and preferences don't align with the logistics of retrofitting. We are truly sorry that this customer's project did not end up to his liking, as our goal is not only quality product but consistent, quality customer service and satisfaction. END QUOTE.
I did get educated, that is for sure. I learned a lot from this transaction and I hope others can learn from my experience. I wanted these headlights to fit, and work. I just got tired of jumping through one hoop after another. I REALLY wish I had taken pics of the headlamps as received, but thought I could work everything out with JB and didn’t see the need at that point.
As an aside, as I mentioned I have done a TON of mods on my trucks. Instead of “cutting” the harnesses per Black Flames instructions, all connections were spliced, soldered, heat shrink applied, tape wrapped and wire loom installed. Butt connectors were used so that should the OEM lamps need to be installed, it would be truly “Plug and Play”. I have been doing this stuff for a long time, and prefer to do things right the first time. I am no rookie at mods (but I still kiss the ModFather’s ring). In my opinion, this was less than professional work, and a less than professional response.
Buyer beware.
Ken

Ken - You are entitled to your opinion. It is unfortunate that there is disagreement about the facts.

As quoted:


...QUOTE: The adjustment of the internal components did have an issue upon arrival at customer destination. END QUOTE.
Blatantly untrue. Look at the pics that I attached of the high beam bulb plug. One picture is of the stock headlamp and the other is of the aftermarket Black Flame headlamp. There was no possible way to plug the bulb into the Black Flame lamp as the reflector assembly was so far recessed that you could not plug the OEM harness into the bulb receptacle. Again, I tried adjusting the headlamps and they would not budge.

Please carefully re-read my statement: 'The adjustment of the internal components DID have an issue....' I was agreeing with you.

The situation is unfortunate. While there are many other issues that can be addressed with the statements made, I think that for BFC to continue further publicly posting on this topic will just fuel the disagreement. We stand behind our original posting and its information.
~JB @ BFC

Ken - You are entitled to your opinion. It is unfortunate that there is disagreement about the facts.

As quoted:



Please carefully re-read my statement: 'The adjustment of the internal components DID have an issue....' I was agreeing with you.

The situation is unfortunate. While there are many other issues that can be addressed with the statements made, I think that for BFC to continue further publicly posting on this topic will just fuel the disagreement. We stand behind our original posting and its information.
~JB @ BFC

You are right on that issue, I misread the statement.

Ken

I had Lightwerkz retrofit a set of bi-xenon Lexus LS460 projectors into my 2008 Sequoia headlights (same as the Tundra) and it did not require any modification to the vehicle, etc. Plug and play means you just have to plug and 'play.' Not splice and play.

I was the first current Tundra/Sequoia owner to get a retrofit by LW, since then he's done about 6-10? more and I haven't heard any complaints. The retrofitting world is a small world, sometimes it's better for a company to take a small loss than get a bad rep. :beatsme:To the OP maybe contact Lightwerkz to see if they can clean up the mess?

I had Lightwerkz retrofit a set of bi-xenon Lexus LS460 projectors into my 2008 Sequoia headlights (same as the Tundra) and it did not require any modification to the vehicle, etc. Plug and play means you just have to plug and 'play.' Not splice and play.

I was the first current Tundra/Sequoia owner to get a retrofit by LW, since then he's done about 6-10? more and I haven't heard any complaints. The retrofitting world is a small world, sometimes it's better for a company to take a small loss than get a bad rep. :beatsme:To the OP maybe contact Lightwerkz to see if they can clean up the mess?

Thanks. I did contact Caesar at LightWerkz about the issue. He said that they do not provide headlights to retro. The customer can purchase aftermarket ones or send in their OEM headlamps and they will do the retro. I don't think he wanted to mess with someone elses work, not knowing what he was getting into. And money wise, I can't afford to buy another set not knowing how much money I am getting back from the Black Flame headlamps. I am putting this project on the back burner for now, at least until I get things worked out on the refund. I wish I had known about Caesar before this purchase. I have done some searches on LightWerkz and heard nothing but good things about them.
Funny though, if Black Flame was that confident that there was nothing "wrong" with the lights they sold me, why would they not just refund my money knowing they would have no problem selling the lights to someone else? Either way, I am out at least $90+ dollars just for shipping not to mention the cost of the headlamps. So as of right now I am close to $1100 in the hole.
Ken

Holy crap :eek: 1100. I guess I would be looking for some type of recourse with this issue.

Wow, I don't know what to say except that I can completely understand why you are upset. :( Obviously a light that has been opened will never be the same as factory...there will be SOME scratches on the lens, maybe some dust. That's what happens when you modify. However, it can still be done very cleanly.

Sucks about the clearance problem. I had something similar happen, I wanted to use all OEM grade components, none of the aftermarket HID stuff. So I insisted, and purchased my own parts. Turns out that where water runs down in the Tundra is the PERFECT SPOT to get water in my D1S ignitors, yay! Totally annoying. It was nothing a little dielectric grease didn't permanently cure, but again, whenever you start changing something THIS much, you are going to run into some roadblocks. Once you've hit a couple of those blocks, I completely understand wanting to just throw your hands up and throw in the towel. These retrofits are not cheap, and it can seem like a money pit really fast.

I also had a set of retrofitted lights from Caeser at Lightwerkz. I did a ton of research and spoke to JMS before taking the plunge. No extra sealant, no electrical tape at all except to protect sockets during shipping, etc. The one problem I did have was the result of my OWN retrofit component choices, and Caeser promptly cleaned up my mess :) In the end, black lights didn't look so great on my new Salsa Red Pearl truck (compared to the white Sequoia) so I'm back to stock. I may do another one in the future with chrome housings. I've learned from my mistakes, and can skip all of them on the next retrofit.

Don't discount the ability of FedEx and UPS to destroy something like headlights. My lights actually were damaged in shipping as well. One of the OEM adjusters would not work. Caeser fixed them ASAP and had them back out to me. Seriously, the package handlers can do things to these lights that cannot be done while in the truck unless you wreck it.

I understand that it would have been hard to refund 100% of everything, but maybe a solution acceptable to both parties would have been to split the labor refund down the middle? You get 50% back, he's vested 50% in re-selling his own work. A couple sets of retrofits have sold on these very boards. :)

Again, sorry to hear about this. I know exactly how you are feeling. I hope that you guys can reach a mutually satisfying solution, and just learn from the experience.

Do you need a spare set of headlights? I have a pair that are pretty beat up and one is leaky, but they are fine while your "real set" is down for repairs/upgrades.

I can loan them to you for as long as you need them if you pay for shipping.

I have just spent the last month going through somewhat of a nightmare getting a retrofit done.

Keninsb I'm sorry to hear that you've been through this BS with this clown that just did A Mickey Mouse hack job.
Don't worry we are here to help each other. So this is what I can do for you...Send me those lights, and I can fix them at no cost - I do know exactly why your headlighths are not working and why they are not fitting right. You can Borrow the lights from ThirdHorseman, and I will take care off the rest. Or if you can wait a couple weeks, I can send you a set of my loaners which are out right now with folks I am completing retrofits for. I've been doing retrofits for some folks around here in New Orleans and never had any problems!

I will send you back what you were likely looking for in the first place.


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/pazorell69/60ab368b.jpg

^^Pazo..Now that is a stand up act of kindness right there! Rep points to you my friend!! And please PM me on what your cost is to do a retro.

Man Paz, I don't know what to say. That is an incredibly generous offer and I wish I could take you up on it. I sent the light back to BF last week and he should be getting them on Weds. That is why I have been waiting for a "solution". Once JB gets the lights back, I should get some kind of a response from him as far as the refund goes. I am blown away by your generous offer though, and REALLY appreciate it. I have seen your work (and the cool video!) so I know you are the man when it comes to the retros! Again, thanks for the offer. Oh, and the pic of the setup you attached looks AWESOME!
ThirdHorseMan, thanks to you too. I actually have the stocks in roght now, as BF had supplied aftermarket headlamps for the retro, so I never had to send mine in. Thanks to you too for the generous offer, MUCH appreciated.
All of you have renewed my faith in people. It just goes to show that for every one person that is willing to take advantage of someone, there are TEN people willing to help out. That is what I love about this country (and this forum). You guys are AWESOMEm and it just makes me want to contribute as much as I can to this forum (and other forums).
Thanks again for all of the kind words and incredibly generous offers. I do REALLY appreciate it.
Will keep you posted on the outcome of the BF issue.
Ken


QUOTE=keninsb;1586270]I have just spent the last month going through somewhat of a nightmare getting a retrofit done.

Keninsb I'm sorry to hear that you've been through this BS with this clown that just did A Mickey Mouse hack job.
Don't worry we are here to help each other. So this is what I can do for you...Send me those lights, and I can fix them at no cost - I do know exactly why your headlighths are not working and why they are not fitting right. You can Borrow the lights from ThirdHorseman, and I will take care off the rest. Or if you can wait a couple weeks, I can send you a set of my loaners which are out right now with folks I am completing retrofits for. I've been doing retrofits for some folks around here in New Orleans and never had any problems!

I will send you back what you were likely looking for in the first place.


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/pazorell69/60ab368b.jpg

@pazorell69... High class right there.. Thank you Sir for your fine show of "gentlemanship".. Points sent.

Thanks for the points guys. I'm just doing the right thing.

Marky mark: PM as soon as I'm done here.

Ken any updates? Hope you can get your money back. :amen:

Hi everyone. I just wanted to post the resolution.
JB emailed me yesterday and said he was refunding the total price of the retro AND the $90 that I paid for shipping the headlights back to him. By the end of the day, he had followed through and refunded exactly what he said he would. Bottom line: Black Flame DID stand behind their product and he apologized for the inconvenience. I think we both REALLY wished we could have worked things out, but I respect him for standing behind his product. So thanks to JB for working things out with me.
I want to thank EVERYONE on this forum for your support. You guys have been great, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the support, kind words and incredibly generous offers. Special thanks to Paz and ThirdHorseman (I added to rep, but could not add to Paz's again, already added in another thread. What a gyp!). Everyone’s help and input was MUCH appreciated!
Thanks again,

Ken

Wow that's pretty awesome! Nice to see a company handling a situation like this.

Good for you Man!

ok why do we retro fit? i have just ordered 6k hids today, but do i have to retro fit to make them work? cnat i just plug then in and install the ballast and go? will they melt my headlamps or do damage?

They don't control the light output direction well enough that way. You will cause glare for oncoming motorists.

[QUOTE=gheins;1594796]ok i have just ordered 6k hids today, but do i have to retro fit to make them work? cnat i just plug then in and install the ballast and go?
Yes, Hid kits are plug n play.


will they melt my headlamps or do damage?
DDM 55W will do over time. or any cheap hid kit due to poor quality.


why do we retro fit?


Because...

Hid kit installed/ halogen reflectors...


http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/pazorell69/glare.jpg

Real Hid kit/ projectors retrofit ...:tu:

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af200/pazorell69/bbd5f46d.jpg

Nuff said!!!!