Ok being a California native this is the first time I have driven in snow and it sucks. I thought by putting 350 lbs of sand in the back and with the limited slip I would be fine, but I wasn't. My top speed around town, 20 miles an hour. I couldn't get any traction. Intersections were horrible going through when I stopped at a red light, I had to crawl from a dead stop. Then my ABS light came on. I guess I should think about trading in my 4x2 for a 4x4. Guess I'm just venting.
-tpgn00
RockyMtnRay
11-23-2003, 05:28 AM
Ok being a California native this is the first time I have driven in snow and it sucks. I thought by putting 350 lbs of sand in the back and with the limited slip I would be fine, but I wasn't. My top speed around town, 20 miles an hour. I couldn't get any traction. Intersections were horrible going through when I stopped at a red light, I had to crawl from a dead stop. Then my ABS light came on. I guess I should think about trading in my 4x2 for a 4x4. Guess I'm just venting.
-tpgn00
Living in Colo Spgs, I was driving on pretty much the same surfaces as you were last night. As a Colorado/Montana native who's not only used to snow but really likes the stuff, here are a couple of thoughts:
1. 20 - 25 MPH is actually about right for city streets during a snowstorm. Even if you had enough traction to get started, you still don't have much to stop with. Remember, all vehicles have 4 wheel brakes...and on ice/packed snow, your stopping distance is roughly 10 times as far as on dry pavement. And stopping distance on any surface increases with the square of your speed (takes 4 times as long to stop at 40 MPH as it does at 20 MPH). In other words, 20 to 25 is a perfect speed.
2. 350 lbs of Sand is too much...for what little traction you're getting with the extra weight, you're losing with the amount of force it takes to accelerate that much weight, especially if you're trying to go up hills. That extra weight is also really hurting your stopping distances on slippery surfaces. Cut it to 100 lbs max. I have no weight at all in my truck's bed and had zero problems getting around hilly Colorado Springs.
3. Crawling from a dead stop is exactly what you should have been doing. On ice/packed snow, an extremely light touch on the throttle is best. Same-same for the brakes...a very, very light touch is best. If your ABS is activating, you're braking too hard and should begin your braking much farther back next time. The ABS doesn't do a whole lot for stopping distances, it mostly keeps you in control of your direction when braking. Even at 20 MPH, I figure it will take me the better part of city block to stop on glare ice. Keep remembering you have one tenth your normal traction.
4. As for 4X4 vs 4X2, that's not really that big a difference unless you have to go up very steep hills or through deep snow. I have 4X4 (and a LSD rear diff) but saw no need whatsoever to use the 4 wheel drive last night. My LSD did just fine for acceleration.
5. Narrower M/S tires with lots and lots of siping (and smaller tread blocks) have it all over wide all terrain tires when you get on ice/packed snow. Your 285 A/Ts were really hurting you in last night's conditions. I was very happy with the grip I was getting from my Michelin LTX M/S 265/75s. Reason: The narrower tires tend to cut into the surface more instead of floating on top of it like wider tires do (this is extremely important when you get into deeper snow). Tires with lots of siping have lots of biting edges for the tire to grip on the tiny irregularities in icy surfaces. Take a look sometime at the tread design of a real ice tire like the Blizzak...it's nothing but tiny tread blocks and gazillions of sipes...and it grips wonderfully on even glare ice.
Bottom line: Snow/ice are a nuisance but they're a fact of life in Colorado. You have to go slow (real slow) when it's icy, especially during/right after a storm before the sanding trucks can get some grit/deicer on the pavement. Before you spend the big bucks for 4X4, spend a few hundred on an extra pair of narrower rims and mount some really good M/S tires (maybe even get them studded) for your rear wheels (don't go over 265 in width). If you only use the M/S between November and April, they'll last you several years.
kbl41001
11-23-2003, 05:54 AM
Living in Colo Spgs, I was driving on pretty much the same surfaces as you were last night. As a Colorado/Montana native who's not only used to snow but really likes the stuff, here are a couple of thoughts:
1. 20 - 25 MPH is actually about right for city streets during a snowstorm. Even if you had enough traction to get started, you still don't have much to stop with. Remember, all vehicles have 4 wheel brakes...and on ice/packed snow, your stopping distance is roughly 10 times as far as on dry pavement. And stopping distance on any surface increases with the square of your speed (takes 4 times as long to stop at 40 MPH as it does at 20 MPH). In other words, 20 to 25 is a perfect speed.
2. 350 lbs of Sand is too much...for what little traction you're getting with the extra weight, you're losing with the amount of force it takes to accelerate that much weight, especially if you're trying to go up hills. That extra weight is also really hurting your stopping distances on slippery surfaces. Cut it to 100 lbs max. I have no weight at all in my truck's bed and had zero problems getting around hilly Colorado Springs.
3. Crawling from a dead stop is exactly what you should have been doing. On ice/packed snow, an extremely light touch on the throttle is best. Same-same for the brakes...a very, very light touch is best. If your ABS is activating, you're braking too hard and should begin your braking much farther back next time. The ABS doesn't do a whole lot for stopping distances, it mostly keeps you in control of your direction when braking. Even at 20 MPH, I figure it will take me the better part of city block to stop on glare ice. Keep remembering you have one tenth your normal traction.
4. As for 4X4 vs 4X2, that's not really that big a difference unless you have to go up very steep hills or through deep snow. I have 4X4 (and a LSD rear diff) but saw no need whatsoever to use the 4 wheel drive last night. My LSD did just fine for acceleration.
5. Narrower M/S tires with lots and lots of siping (and smaller tread blocks) have it all over wide all terrain tires when you get on ice/packed snow. Your 285 A/Ts were really hurting you in last night's conditions. I was very happy with the grip I was getting from my Michelin LTX M/S 265/75s. Reason: The narrower tires tend to cut into the surface more instead of floating on top of it like wider tires do (this is extremely important when you get into deeper snow). Tires with lots of siping have lots of biting edges for the tire to grip on the tiny irregularities in icy surfaces. Take a look sometime at the tread design of a real ice tire like the Blizzak...it's nothing but tiny tread blocks and gazillions of sipes...and it grips wonderfully on even glare ice.
Bottom line: Snow/ice are a nuisance but they're a fact of life in Colorado. You have to go slow (real slow) when it's icy, especially during/right after a storm before the sanding trucks can get some grit/deicer on the pavement. Before you spend the big bucks for 4X4, spend a few hundred on an extra pair of narrower rims and mount some really good M/S tires (maybe even get them studded) for your rear wheels (don't go over 265 in width). If you only use the M/S between November and April, they'll last you several years.
DITTO WHAT ROCKYMTNRAY JUST SAID, WHEN IT SNOWS DRVIE SLOW AND ENJOY THE BEAUTY ,BECAUSE TOMOROW THE SAND,AND SLAT TRUCKS MAKE A MESS OUT OF EVERYTHING.
I READ THAT MOST OF THE WINTER ACCIDENTS ARE CAUSED BY 4X4'S & SUV'S THAT BEING DRIVIN BY FIRST TIME 4X4 OWERS! YOU MAY HAVE MORE TRACTION IN SOME GIVEN SITUATIONS BUT YOU CAN NOT STOP ANY FASTER ! I SEE SO MANY PEOPLE DRIVING WAY OVER THERE HEADS IN SNOW AND ICE THEY PASS ME GOING WAY TO ONLY TO SEE THEM IN THE DITCH OR WORSE FARTHER DONE THE ROAD, LANE CHANGES OVER RUTTED SNOW IS NOT MUCH BETTER IN 2 OR 4 WHEEL DRIVE , I'M HAPPY WITH 20 -25 MILES A HR. SOUNDS LIKE YOU WERE DOING JUST FINE. JUST FOLLOWS RAYS TIPS AND YOU WILL ENJOY THE SPRING & SUMMER ALSO.
KEVIN