: Icon installed, but some potential issues???
06-05-2012, 05:50 PM
I picked up a set of Icons and installed them last weekend. Awsome project, totally worth it. A couple of things I am concerned about...
1. When I installed the Icons, I got 4" of lift instead of just 2.5". It was sitting tall and proud. I thought that the suspension may need to settle a bit so I took it for a drive. There are some decent size speed bumps in the neighborhood my brother in law lives in (we did the install at his house, I do not have a paved driveway or garage), and the Icons soaked them up, could bareley tell they were there. The test drive was going well, so we decided to take it offroad for a minute. WOW! Felt like I was driving over a bunch of pillows. I never felt or heard anything when we were out, but when we got back I checked everything out. Although there seemed to be quite a bit of stress on the CVs, tie rod ends, upper ball joints, and sway bar joints, it did not look like the lower ball joints were to bad. However, the driver side lower ball joint boot was no longer sealed and spit a little bit of grease. I immediately lowered the truck back down 1.25". When I was at the shop for alignment one of the guys said "These trucks do that, I would not worry about it, it has probably been like that". I was shocked to hear that come out of his mouth. Anyone have any input on the lower ball joint? Should I replace, or just grease it periodically?
2. Once I had the truck where I wanted it's height (level after 1.25" drop) it appears that alot of the stress was relieved from the tie rod ends, CVs, and sway bar. So I am comfotable with the height setting and think it looks great. However, I am concerned about the camber. It looks like the bottom of the front tires still point in slightly. The alignment guy said he set the camber to 1, and that if he went to 0 that it would be to far. He also said it would not be uncommon for the front end to look like that. From what I think I know about alignments (I am not a pro at all), you ussually like to have a bit of negative camber (bottom of the wheels slightly out) to help with wear and cornering. Anyone have any suggestions? Should I take it back and have him set to 0 and see for myself? If he is shooting me straight about the camber being positive is "not uncommon", what benefit could that have on a lifted vehicle?
Thanks for any insight ahead of time.
Here are some pictures taken with my crappy phone camera after I cleaned the truck and right before it rained on my clean truck :cry3d:
I was trying to flex the suspension, but that bump on the side of the driveway was not a big as I though it was. The last 2 pictures were before I lowered it back down.
06-05-2012, 09:01 PM
I cant say much about your situation, other than as far as the LBJs go, since the boot is/has been pulled off the joint, maybe lift the boots just enough to inspect the rims of the cups on the LBJs?
Thanx to tundrunk, here's a pic of what you would be looking for:
If theres no discernable distortion in the rim of the cups, you SHOULD be ok with them....I would imagine it takes a pretty BIG, sudden impact, or a good bit of time/mileage running bad angles on them to make them worthy of replacement.
06-06-2012, 04:04 AM
Thanks for the reply. That ball joint in the link you posted does not look happy. My LBJ does not look like that around the cup. Nor has it spit any more grease since I dropped it (haven't taken it back off the road either though). I was just concerned because the lower part of the boot popped up. I will keep an eye on it as part of maintenance, greasing as necessary.
That thread will make you want to purchase UCAs. It is on my todo list, just trying to afford one thing at the time. $$$ is tight after an Icon purchase.
06-06-2012, 06:45 AM
Here are some pics of all the joints...
Driver side front wheel locked to the left (if sitting in car). Pics shot from front of tire.
Lower Ball Joint
Upper Ball Joint
Tie rod end
Driver side front wheel centered. Pics shot from front of tire.
Lower Ball Joint
Tie rod end
Upper Ball Joint
Driver side front wheel locked to the Right (if sitting in car). Pics shot from back of the tire.
Lower Ball Joint
Upper Ball Joint
Tie rod end
Pics of Camber Concerns. It may be hard to tell by the camera but the bottom of the wheels are angled in slightly (positive camber)
06-19-2012, 06:14 PM
Okay, this post has had quite a bit of views and only one response from Stone_Blue. Thanks Brother! This tells me that I need to post a follow up. It has been a couple of weeks now, and the hot item on the fix list has been... The damn' alignment!
The first alignment I had, well... The guy apparently did not know what he was doing (or was just lazy as hell). I actually marked all the eccentric cams prior to doing the Icon coilover install (just in case). My wheels were still pointed in at the bottom to a noticeable degree after the first alignment (too much positive camber). This raised a big red flag for me. I ended up going to a 4 wheel shop here in Jacksonville called Extreme Truck Stuff and talked to one of their guys. He said that I should be worried about the alignment, but however his shop was backed up at the time so he could not have a look at it for a week. He sent over to another guy named Chris at World Auto who is the "Alignment Guru". Supposed to be very good with raised vehicles. Well he definitely lives up to his reputation.
Once he had it up on the alignment machine he called me back and showed me the markings I made on the cams. None of which had moved at all. He said "Go get your money back, they didn't touch a thing". Pissed me off to say the least. He spent about 20 minutes on the whole thing before he had it aligned completely. Here are the numbers from the alignments...
1st alignment specs on the front of the truck from the shop that did nothing...
Caster - left +2.3, right +1.8
Camber - left +1.2, right +1.2
Toe - left +0.60, right +0.20, Total +0.80
As you can see, the Camber is pretty bad, and explains why the bottom of the tires were pointed in (amongst other things).
Here are the specs after Chris at Auto World aligned it...
Caster - left +2.2, right +2.5 (compensate for road crown)
Camber - left +0.2, right +0.1
Toe - left +0.15, right +0.15, Total +0.30
The truck drives allot better now. I was hearing subtle creaking noises before in which have went away at this point. I assume that those noises were from the stress on the front end from the poor alignment.
In regards to the driver lower ball joint... I have greased it and it seems to be doing well thus far. There is no play in the joint, and caused no complications with the alignment. However, a replacement will be inevitable, I am sure.
My number one biggest concern was the tie rod ends. The rest of the joints (Upper ball joints, Lower ball joints, sway bar links) all looked very good considering the height adjustment. However, the tie rod ends looked stressed as hell. After the alignment, they now look much more relaxed than before. You can check the pictures above to see my original concern with the tie rod ends. Here is a picture after a real alignment...
I am chalking the busted lower ball joint up to my ignorance for taking it off road prior to having the front end aligned properly (couldn't help it). Also, I have had it off road since the real alignment and the suspension feels even better, like it is more relaxed now. It has settled quite a bit, over 1/2" actually. I will give another 2 weeks, then raise it back up and take it to Chris at Auto world for final alignment adjustments.
08-13-2012, 07:07 PM
you need uca's to correct the camber in the new coilovers.
08-18-2012, 07:16 PM
It sounds like your alignment guru definitely fixed some of the immediate issues you had going. One thing that is very important on the new Tundras is to make sure the ride height does not change much after the alignment gets set. The toe change is drastic even with as little as 1/2" of ride height change. The toe will wear tires WAY faster than with just the camber being off! As far as the lower balljoint goes, just keep it greased and you'll be fine. The factory tierods are terrible but unfortunately the only fix we've seen for them is the ReadyLIFT heim tierod kit. Not that we like installing a bunch of heim joints on a street truck due to potential squeeks and energy transfer to the rack & pinion, but they'll never leave you stranded if you decide to get a heavy foot when off-roading! Same goes for the upper arms although you'll definitely like the way it drives after installing the UCA's as they will add more caster and make the thing drive like a dream at highway speeds and lessen the frequency of the stability control kicking on when driving aggressively! We've done a ton of these new Tundras with your similar setup and are sure you'll be happy with everything for a long time!
09-04-2012, 08:47 PM
Looks killer. It's ready for some 35s!
10-19-2012, 09:18 AM
Haven't been back on here in a while, so sorry I have not responded...
@SoCal1 - I have been driving it now for 4 months and even took it up in the mountains in GA (by Helen). I was pretty hard on it on purpose. Had to see what would happen driving fast up and down gravel and dirt roads and on the dips and bumps in the mountains. Fun! The suspension did great, but I think you are right about the UCA's and the Caster. The handling when turning is not as good as it was, in which I expected with the truck sitting higher, but I think could be better than currently is.
Also, I have had a few instances where I have had to brake really hard, really fast. When I do that, it feels like the truck moves ahead of the wheels slightly and dips down just a bit, at which point I will hear and feel a big crunching noise. I have no idea why that happens, but like I said only occurs when I hammer the brakes real hard to stop. Any ideas?
Here is another strange one as well. Sometimes when I lock the wheel all the way when turning, I will get a pop noise. I have checked over and over again, and there is no rubbing anywhere I can see. However, I did take a look at the wheels after this happened and noticed that there were wheel weights missing. It specifically stood out to me because there was a white spot where the weight used to be. If it had come off prior to the pop, then that white spot would have been covered in brake dust and not so apparent. So this is what I think may be happening. With the factory rims still being on, and the high offset that they have, I am noticing that the tie rod ends sit very close to the inner edge of the wheel. Also, when locking the steering wheel to the right, I notice the truck dips down a little on that side. I am wondering if the tie rod end it knocking my wheel weights off when I hear this noise?
Other than the above mentioned, I am happy as can be with the Icons and truck. I can live with both issues for now. I have a feeling 20" rims with a lower offset will fix the pop noise if my theory is correct. And UCAs will hopefully fix the hard braking crunch noise and make the handling better.
@sooner02r1 - You are damn right! Just need some more $$$.
10-23-2012, 01:11 PM
It sounds like possibly the lower control arms could have been left loose which could allow them to shift when braking and accelerating. It would be good to atleast double check with a wrench. You could also probably see a shiny spot on the frame where the pivot bolt and washer go through the lower pivot.
As far as the wheel weight is concerned, it shouldn't be hitting the weights even with the stock wheels but again, crank the wheel all the way and take a look to see how close it gets. When wheel balance is off on the Tundra's even a little, you'll usually get some pretty good shaking at the steering wheel which I haven't read has been an issue for you. It just seems like something is shifting around under the truck.
Let us know what you see when you look under it...
10-26-2012, 02:07 PM
Well, if I remember correctly the whole thing involved undoing 3 bolts on each side pertaining to the LCA. 1 was to hold the bottom of the coilover in the LCA (pivot bolt). The other 2 bolts were to separate the spindle from the LCA. Icon sent torque specs with the coilovers, so I torqued them to their listed specs. I have a 250 lb torque wrench so I made sure I torqued it right, and then went back 2 weeks later and re-torqued them in case they had loosened from wear in.
As for the wheel shake, you are correct. Every time I rotate my tires I end up having to have a Road Force Balance, which sucks because it is pricey. But, my tundra will not ride smooth with a regular wheel balance, even back when it was all stock.
I did go out to look and see if the tie rods touch when the wheel is locked each way. They do not, and actually have some room to spare. So I think you are right, that could not be the crunch/popping noise I am hearing while turning with the steering wheel locked all the way in one direction.
I looked down by the pivot bolts as well to see if there was any shiny spots on the frame, but did not see anything. All looks good there.
I am now remembering this after looking under the truck. The sway bar was being a pain in the a**, so we took it off. When I put it back, we just made it tight because we could not find torque specs for it. Do you think this could be an issue?