I'm interested in the sway-bar thing. How much are they without any deal, just to get an idea of what I'm getting into.

Also I believe it was CaliforniaWine that was going to let me know where to get white side marker lights locally and also who did his white front valances and grill.

Once again this weekend was very nice and I look forward to seeing everyone again soon.

I think Big Bear is going to be really cool for those who camp and those that don't and for those who stay over and those who don't.

Another fun gathering would be a trip to the Peterson Automotive museum, right now they are showing million dollar cars. It is located on Wilshire and Fairfax in L.A. about 1/2 between Beverly Hills and Downtown.

They will often accomodate groups like ours and provide special parking on the top deck and discounts.

The last time I was there their was a Porche club and before that I saw a hotrod club on the top deck.

We could meet there in the morning and tour the place and then have a BBQ around the cars or get reservations and some local eatery.

This is also the museum row area so there are other places to go as well and the La Brea tar pits are just down the street for the 4wheelers.

www.truckperformance.com has the Hellwig sway bar for $139.49.

Mike

One of the best, and cheapest mods, I ever made. The Hellwig swaybar can be had for $129.99 at Summit Racing. I ordered it and received it the same week.

http://www.summitracing.com/

Thanks guys, I'll probably do this soon especially if we can work a group discount.

Mike and IBTG2 -

Thanks for the pricing and sources. I'll see if we can improve on that tomorrow.

Judy

yeah yeah! i can't stop thinking of how great the ride is when i test drove heriberto's on sunday. been bragging to everyone at work and still working on persuading the wife. kinda hard right now since i just dropped $150 tonight on fishin gear though....

You know you're gonna get it, TundraBear...the sway bar, too!!!! :p :D Judy

I've ordered mine couple of day ago. But I asked my wife after I ordered.:) I know she'll like it.

Hi Chuck, The truck with the grill mod and the valances painted is Big Joe's truck. I'll be watching this thread for more info on the anti-sway pricing. Take care, Randy.

Thanks Randy, I will get it straight someday.
Chuck

Originally posted by TundraBear
yeah yeah! i can't stop thinking of how great the ride is when i test drove heriberto's on sunday. been bragging to everyone at work and still working on persuading the wife. kinda hard right now since i just dropped $150 tonight on fishin gear though....

If I had a choice between $150 for my truck and $150 for fishing gear...I'd be torn. I'm leaning a little more towards the fishing gear thogh.:D

My next purchase (hopefully):

Originally posted by red's tundra


If I had a choice between $150 for my truck and $150 for fishing gear...I'd be torn. I'm leaning a little more towards the fishing gear thogh.:D

My next purchase (hopefully):

Where do you put that? :D

In my "full size" truck bed. I believe the pontoons on that one are 9-10 feet long and the boat itself is about 4-5 feet wide, so I will probably have to deflate it a little. I like it because you can take it on Rivers as well as Lakes. I believe it is rated for class 3+ rapids. Speaking of Rivers...I'll be doing 4's and 5's on the Merced River this weekend. Hopefully I fit in the wet suit. :D

There was a thread "BC" that was about doing a group buy for the sway bar. Did anything come of it? I would be interested.

Originally posted by red's tundra
In my "full size" truck bed. I believe the pontoons on that one are 9-10 feet long and the boat itself is about 4-5 feet wide, so I will probably have to deflate it a little. I like it because you can take it on Rivers as well as Lakes. I believe it is rated for class 3+ rapids. Speaking of Rivers...I'll be doing 4's and 5's on the Merced River this weekend. Hopefully I fit in the wet suit. :D

There was a thread "BC" that was about doing a group buy for the sway bar. Did anything come of it? I would be interested.

You should be able to hook up some wheels on that bad boy and just tow it behind the Tundra with a 5' rope. Put a little "red" light on it and you're good to go :p
Have fun this weekend.

All you Hellwig swaybar purchasers please post info on your install event. There has been lots of chatter here about Hellwig supplying short U bolts for over the axle. Mine were short enough that I only got about half the second nut on for locking the first. I plan to remove both nuts and install a nut with the nylon lock. With the brake line and other garbage on the axle I found only one place on each side that the U bolt fit. The good news is it was just in the right spot. Oh, you will find the gas tank side (drivers side) is a difficult install for the endlink because of access for your hand is limited. The install is not too hard, be patient, read the instructions, FIRST as they are fairly easy to follow and pretty complete.

Hey IBTundraGuy2, how long did it take to install, and are there any special tools needed?

And does anyone know what this does to the warranty?

Thanks in advance -- Steven

I couldn't wait for the weekend when the bar arrived. The next day I had a trip into the SoCal mountains planed for work. So it was in the garage with a drop light at night and cold (yes 48 degrees is cold for SoCal). It took less than two hours working alone in these conditions. On a warm Saturday parked out in front of the garage your time should be less and lots easier. The nuts supplied for the endlink bracket are the locking type so you have to fight them all the way down. As mentioned the bracket install on the driver side is a bear cat. It is inside the channel of the frame without a way to use a socket or wrench easily. I used a large open end wrench held sideways, one end down (or up) and the flat of the wrench handle against the bolt to hold it from turning. I only lost a little skin on my knuckles and this bolt was the longest part of the install. Before and after it was a piece of cake. No special tools. I have a mixture of American and metric wrenches and sockets in my toolbox so I don't remember what it took, but nothing unusual.

Can't see any reason for this mod to effect the warrantee. It actually improves the truck handling and is a bolt on without any added holes or other changes to the truck. I can't think of a thing the swaybar could hurt on the truck that Toyota could use as a reason to not stand behind their warrantee.

i just poked my head into the texas forum and there are a handful of people that are interested, so we're on our way to getting a good number of interested folks.

i did notice that there are some folks wondering if the part (HEL-7641) listed with summit racing (http://www.summitracing.com/) is for the '00, but i recall reading somewhere within TS that it will fit '01 & '02 models, but not 100% sure. anybody know for sure?

One model fits all.

If anyone want to see what the bar looks like, I have a pic in my profile :)

It might be interesting but this is one of those mods that don't need to look good as long as they work good, kinda of like me.

here is a scan of the actual hellwig instalation instructions. i can not take any credit for this. i found it in another thread on TS but can not remember who i grabbed it from. (sorry)

I was nervious about the listing at Summit so I called Hellwig and confirmed that the bar listed for the 00 will also fit the 01 and o2. It did.

Add me to the list. I'll get a sway bar.

Talked to Sales at Hellwig today and told them we had over 12 people interested in a group purchase of the rear sway bar and in different states (mainly CA and TX). She's working to see what kind of deal we might get through one of their authorized dealers. Told her that the Summit price was $129.XX and right now they're shipping for $10.00. She's trying to see if they can help us better that. More to follow. Judy

Oh, same bar all years so far on the Tundra.

I would like offer my CA resale number. I have a resale number for auto accessories. Maybe she can use that to sale direct to us.

Thanks, Joey, I have one, too, but the problem is that they only sell to their authorized distributors. She is trying to work with one or more of them to provide a group discount. Let's see what she comes back with and we'll go from there. Thanks for the offer. Judy

Did you try contacting Summit Racing with a discount request? These guys were great to work with when I purchased the seaybar.

Not yet, IBTG2 -

Here's the deal arranged by the Hellwig Sales Manager:

One time group purchase with minimum 15 buyers. I send them a list of names and each person can phone or fax their credit card info (to distributor) as soon as list is submitted.

Price:
$128.42 plus $9.95 Tax (CA residents only)
Shipping UPS ground, any state, FREE


Next call is Summit Racing to see if we can do better than this. Stay tuned.

~Judy

A little off the track but I'm new to the Tundra thing (about 3 months).

Where can I get the clear front side marker lights (cheap), and do I get the fog lights from a dealer or somewhere else.

If we get 25 bonafide orders at one time, Mac's Springs, (the Hellwig Distributor that Hellwig made arrangements with), will negotiate with Hellwig to improve the price a little more. John, the owner at Mac's Springs, is trying to negotiate a price for the 25 orders for us.

I'm going to start a sticky thread to put the count in, since they will ship free anywhere in the country by UPS ground (about 5 working days from our combined order confirmation/paid date).

Outside California the price is currently $128.42. No tax, shipping or handling charges!!! WITHIN CALIFORNIA the price is $128.42 + $9.95 sales tax = $138.37. For Californians this is currently $1.47 more than a Summit Racing online order. (Summit does charge sales tax for Ohio and one other state?)

With 25 orders the price will come down for everyone but I just don't know how much. Let's get a count on the sticky thread to see if we can make 25 at this price and we'll confirm the lower price before the order is placed.

~ Judy

Judy....you're the greatest!

where will the sticky be found so that all (cali, texas, others...) can find it so we can get a confirmed head count?

Way to go TundraRose!

Everyone without the swaybar should jump on this. It is one of the cheapest mods and one of the most dramatic improvements in the truck.

Now if you are into a pretty face the billet grill is real nice too:D

Just PMd Possum to get his advice. Think it should go in the main TS forum but don't know if it fits the current rules. I'll post where it is when I know tonight!! :D Judy

Judy,
Why not in the Aftermarket Products or Announcements forums?

Thanks, Glenn,

When I've got a Super Moderator who can sticky it in Aftermarket Products, I'll transfer it there. Tonight since I've lost you, I'll stick it in CA and we can fix it tomorrow. Appreciate the response.

~Judy

If you are interested in the Hellwig rear anti-sway bar, click here (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3029) for more info and to get counted in the poll. Then email me per posted instructions. Thanks so much. Judy

Does this Sway Bar hang lower than the lowest portion of the rear differential?

Thank You

not on my truck

I was talking to a tool designer here at my work who also teaches road racing at a place out by Edwards AFB (Willowtree or something like that) about rear sway bars. He was telling me that if these have adjustable end links (and after checking the Hellwig website, I don't think they come from Hellwig with these), you should start at the farthest hole out in the link, try that, and if you need more stiffness, move up to the next hole. The closer the sway bar is to the differential, the more it transfers the weight to the opposite side. So that's something to think about, especially if you're concerned about oversteer when driving on ice or if you have LSD and are in the snow. Also, if they don't come with adjustable links, I noticed on the macs spring website (THERE'S OUR FIRST PLUG FOR MAC'S SPRINGS, JUDY) there's an adjustable link kit you can buy for $41 bucks. That would be a good thing so that we could adjust the stiffness control the amount of understeer. When I get my Hellwig, I'm going to check out the whole system, and then see if I can whip up a good design for some stainless steel quick disconnects (if that's possible) for the guys who have 4WDs and want an easy and quick way to disconnect and re-connect the rear anti-sway bar when going offroad and returning to the highway. If I come up with a winner, I'll post that design (and a machinist I used) on a separate thread in the future. Shouldn't be too big a deal, but then again, ya never know. So hang in there TundraBear, we'll figure out something (unless of course I get distracted by another mod or something..........).

Try this thread:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2896

I thought it was a good idea. I have my sway bar on order thanks to Judy's group discount, so I am looking into ways for the disconnect to work...

JD

What kind of person would set up a deal for 40 plus Sway Bars, Get offered a free one and tell the vendor to take the discount and apply it to everyone else.

1. A Crazy person

2. The pope

3. Judy (AKA Tundra Rose)



Answer: # 3. and maybe a little of #1.;)

Bob........the answer is "all the above"

My TundraAngel strikes again. Judy, you're really an amazing lady. I didn't have any idea you did this, and I'm sure you know we would've discouraged you had we known about it.
You truly have the heart of a giant. Thank you so much........

http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/otn/love/yllove.gif

Uh...I think I can answer this one!

The answer is Number 1....right MJ!:D

Pogo;)

LOL...we will share moderating stories at the LSB! :D

Hey, just wanted those CA folks to get a break so they weren't paying more than by going to Summit. Besides, I didn't do it for a freebie. We all made out great on this. I'm jazzed. Now we need a mod day to make sure everyone puts them on...then we take "rear end" from the ground picks of the Tundra lineup with sway bars!!! Whaddya think? ;) Judy

PS. SuperPogo, looking forward to the storyswap at the LSB!!

Hey Judy:

Thanks bunches, I ordered my bar on Monday and am looking forward to receiving it shortly.

I'm, kind of testing limits on my current suspension so that I can tell the difference. When people say 2 wheelin vs. 4 wheelin are the 2 wheels on the right or left side?;)

Judy-

I don't normally post in the California forum but I wanted to say thanks for setting this up. I ordered mine Monday.

Kese- Thanks for stopping by. Our forum isn't quite as exciting as the TX forum, of course, but we still have lots of fun. Glad you chimed in and feel free to do it more often.

ChuckF, I always thought 2 wheelin' was when she r'ared up on her haunches and pawed the air!!! :D Judy

thanks judy for clearing that 2-wheelin issue. for some reason i always thought it was when the back end was off the ground and the nose was in the dirt! do you think the anti-sway bar will keep my rear end down? =P

Ya, thanks Judy, I was confused.

I'll have to try that "front wheels in the air thing".

I might actually have a chance of pulling it off considering I am the only one in the group man enough to have a clutch.

Well, TundraBear, don't know about your rear end but at least you shouldn't have to worry about left side or right side!!! ;)

And, ChuckF, it IS always nice to have a man around the parking lot (with his clutch, of course)!!! :D

Judy

Judy:

Nacho grassy ass (thank you very much)

Chuck:p

I thought someone posted somewhere what to watch out for when checking your parts. He even mentioned specific bolt legth for some of the bolts. With Hellwigs rep for getting out the correct part, I think this is something we should all watch out for. It is always fun to get it half installed and realize you don't have the correct parts. I hope someone remembers where that post is. Let us know if you do. Judy is super, she always goes way out of her way to help those of us that are tundraholics.
THANKS JUDY

mike

Mike,
I found this post from TRDPWRD that has some helpful info including some lengths:

let me give you Hellwig's number: 800-367-5480. Go ahead and call them NOW before you start installing, get frustrated, and have to pull it out and start again.

Check your U brackets they sent. Measure from the apex of the U to the end of the threaded shaft. If it is 5.5", like mine was, it's too short for your 2002 rear axle. I found this out after I had started putting it on.

I probably could have screwed one nut onto each U shank with the originals that came in the box. The instructions, however,(and Robert in Hellwig tech. support), tell you to double nut the U brackets for safety.

Robert will have to send you out longer U bolts.

Also, check the J bolts. Mine were 2.5". The Tundra(at least the 2002), requires the J bolts to be 4" long. He had to send me another set of those too.

They are great people to talk to at Hellwig, but I definitely let Robert know that I'm not happy with an advertised "specialized" part not having the right pieces. If I want crappy packaging with universal parts that don't fit, I'll go to PepBoys.

There are other "gotchas" I ran into. PM me if you need any help. I just put mine on two days ago, so the memory is fresh...

Now that's out of the way. When you do get the right hardware, it's a beautiful thing. I am so glad I joined this fantastic group of people here at TS. I would never have known about a lot of the mods for my Tundra, including the anti-sway bar. It's like night and day. It doesn't handle like my wife's Z06, it's still a truck with a high center of gravity and a lot of weight.

But you notice how the rear end stays upright and rigid in turns from stoplights, changing lanes at high speed, and interstate cloverleafs. What I have found now is that I don't have enough rubber on the street to keep up with the incredible chassis stability!!!

I mounted by U bolt/carriage bracket assemblies as close to the turn in the bar on each side as possible-the truck still has a very compliant and smooth ride. Many have said on this site that the further out on the bar on each side you mount the U brackets, the harsher the ride, so keep that in mind. by TRDPWRD

~Judy

Thanks Judy,
I knew I saw a post with some vital information.

mike

Originally posted by Offc. Bob
What kind of person would set up a deal for 40 plus Sway Bars, Get offered a free one and tell the vendor to take the discount and apply it to everyone else.

1. A Crazy person

2. The pope

3. Judy (AKA Tundra Rose)



Answer: # 3. and maybe a little of #1.;)

WOW!!!!

Thanks Judy. It's very refreshing to hear there are folks like you out there.

OS

I talked to Mike at Mac Springs today. He said they got about 70 orders. I think they were surprised at the number of orders.
mike

After reading Judy's post of TRDPWRP's post (re: Hellwig sending the wrong J bolts and U brackets for 2002 Tundras), I wrote an email to Mac's springs to ask them to make sure my order included the correct hardware, and gave them the info. from TRDPWPR's post. Here's the response from Mike at Mac's springs;


I have been in contact with Hellwig and was told that these changes were made after running into problems with this bar.


Thank you,
Michael Wagenstein
Sales

G'mornin:

I also did some follow up on this.

I called Hellwig last week and they were aware (and pleased) of this order and assured that the longer J bolts and U bolts would be there.

Chuck

Chuck ; Great mind think alike I just talked to Robert at Hellwig and he assured me that the orders would have the correct hardware.
I ordered mine last week because I need to get it on B4 we drive back to Virginia on Sunday .
My kit did include J bolt and U bolts that were too short he is mailing me the correct one SAP.
We will be gone for a month so hope everyone gets the correct stuff.
IMOP for an outfit that has been around as long as Hellwig their quality control leaves something to be desired .( and I'm being nice)

Bill:devil:

Hey molecule:

This minds thinking alike must be a Torrance thing. I grew up in Torrance and went to South high.

I currently go through there regularly on my to King Harbor Yacht Club where I sail out of, but I haven't seen you.

Chuck:confused:

I wrote back to Michael at Mac's springs to thank him for the assurance that the right hardware will be sent with the bar (but I ain't holding my breath.......case in point, molecule's recent experience; ref. two posts just below this one). For anyone wondering what's up with when we might see our bars on our doorstep, here's the response I got from him today (5/13), along with Mac's phone #;

"The bars are being made right now we are hoping to be able to start shipping them by Mon. next week. Hopefully you won't have any problems with this bar if you do please call me @ (800) 585-5117 in California Pacific Time 8:00Am to 5:00Pm.




Thank you,
Michael Wagenstein
Sales "

Just wanted to let you know what to look for in your installation of the Swaybar .
Got the longer U bolts today and put the bar on took about 40 minutes ,but have partially done it B4 ( needed longer J bolts and U bolts)
Tips;

1} At step # 8 installing the J bolts ,wait until you install the 9" end link bolt and the top washer and bushing ,the9" bolt is easier to get on especially on the side with the gas tank and brake lines if the J bolt is removed .

2 } I also used Lock tight on all nut ,except the lock nuts on the 9" bolt.

3} I installed a 1/16" washer under the 2 bolts holding the brake lines to the rear end , This gave me a little more clearance between the brake line and the U bolts.


One issue that still bugs me is that the U bolt don't sit flush on top of the rear axle housing .

Would like to hear from someone who has the bar and see if theirs is the same.

I can definitely feel the difference in handling and ride , Corners much better and feels more stable on acceleration and stopping ,
I,m trying to convince myself that it stops better also.

I will be putting over 7000 miles on the truck in the next month heading to Virginia , so I will give it a good test drive.

If anyone near Torrance need help installing their Bar after June 16 , let me know I will be available.


Bill :devil:

I got an email from UPS and it say`s that Mac Springs shipped out the Hellwig anti sway bar. I should get it on May 22, 2002.

Anybody else get this email from Macs Springs or UPS?


Jose:D

***Do not reply to this email. UPS and MACS SPRING SHOP will not receive your reply.

At the request of MACS SPRING SHOP, this notice confirms the following shipment has been sent.

Important Delivery Information


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scheduled Delivery: 21-May-2002

Got mine tonight as well... Looks like it'll be here by the 24th for us Texas guys...

Next mod addition arriving TUESDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! I received this memo last night from UPS with a tracking number;

"At the request of MACS SPRING SHOP, this notice confirms the following shipment has been sent.

Important Delivery Information
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Scheduled Delivery: 21-May-2002"


Thanks Judy! P.S. Godspeed on your trip back from Texas!:D

Looks like Judy made special arrangements so that all the good folks in California got theirs first!!! :D

Thanks Judy!!

Frank

Can't take too much credit for the CA delivery schedule...you know, they only let the mice peddle so much per day now. Union rules, I think. So the further you are from Mac's Springs, the longer it takes those little guys to get to ya!!

Mike did call me Friday night to say that the bars had arrived that day from Hellwig and that the Mac's Springs folks were coming in Sat. on their day off to open EVERY carton and double check the hardware for count, correctness, etc., and that they had a bag of extra parts in case corrections were needed...so how's that for service???!! Monday AM a special UPS pickup is scheduled for the whole lot (less Mustang Sally's which is held back by request!!). SoCal should receive Tuesday, NorCal on Wed., etc.---as you have been notified.

I think John, Mike and the crew at Mac's Springs deserve a GREAT, BIG Hand of applause...<<clapclapclapclapclap>> for one spectacular job. When the bars start arriving, I'll open a thread where it would be really special if you could drop in and give them a thankyou as yours arrives.

Thanks, too, to all who ordered bars and helped make this such a successful buy!!!!!

~ Judy :)

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Can't take too much credit for the CA delivery schedule...you know, they only let the mice peddle so much per day now. Union rules, I think. So the further you are from Mac's Springs, the longer it takes those little guys to get to ya!!

Mike did call me Friday night to say that the bars had arrived that day from Hellwig and that the Mac's Springs folks were coming in Sat. on their day off to open EVERY carton and double check the hardware for count, correctness, etc., and that they had a bag of extra parts in case corrections were needed...so how's that for service???!! Monday AM a special UPS pickup is scheduled for the whole lot (less Mustang Sally's which is held back by request!!). SoCal should receive Tuesday, NorCal on Wed., etc.---as you have been notified.

I think John, Mike and the crew at Mac's Springs deserve a GREAT, BIG Hand of applause...<<clapclapclapclapclap>> for one spectacular job. When the bars start arriving, I'll open a thread where it would be really special if you could drop in and give them a thankyou as yours arrives.

Thanks, too, to all who ordered bars and helped make this such a successful buy!!!!!

~ Judy :)

Judy,

Thank you for everything you did and to Mike & the crew at Mac`s Springs. I can`t wait to get the hellwig anti sway bar.

Jose:D

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Can't take too much credit for the CA delivery schedule...you know, they only let the mice peddle so much per day now. Union rules, I think. So the further you are from Mac's Springs, the longer it takes those little guys to get to ya!!

I know . . . just pullin' those Texan's legs so to speak!! :D

Frank

Originally posted by fdjanzen


I know . . . just pullin' those Texan's legs so to speak!! :D

Frank

HeHe...we did make out, alright!! ;) Can't believe they pulled that big order together so fast!! What an all around win for us all!! Think "those Texans" 'll get quite a "kick" out of longer legs!! :D :p :D Judy

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Monday AM a special UPS pickup is scheduled for the whole lot (less Mustang Sally's which is held back by request!!).

I made arrangements with them to send it out after Memorial Day, but they shipped it anyway. :(

Originally posted by Hover
Got mine tonight as well... Looks like it'll be here by the 24th for us Texas guys...

I have not gotten an email about my Hellwig Anti Sway Bar....just if I wanted free porn. :devil: :cry:

Pogo strikes again........

Somebody I know might be getting a new nickname.....ONETRACK (LOL)

Can't wait to do the mod this weekend. Just did the DRL mod and removed my badges...Just itchin' to do more! Thanks Sally. You and the guys at Mac ROCK! Especially re: the Calif. Tax situation.;)

Just checked the UPS tracking and shows it on the truck from the local start point as of 4:53 AM today!!!! If anyone has not gotten a tracking email from UPS/Mac's Spring, email or call Mac's Spring IMMEDIATELY. Can't wait to bolt that puppy on and ROLL!!! :D Judy

Thanks for the update, Judy. I just checked the UPS website and here's a cut and paste from that site re: my Hellwig. It's already arrived at my local (Gardena, Ca) UPS distribution center, and now is in a truck headed for my door.

Who's gonna be the first one to receive their Hellwig? Maybe me..........

May 21, 2002 4:48 A.M. GARDENA, CA, US OUT FOR DELIVERY
4:31 A.M. GARDENA, CA, US ARRIVAL SCAN
4:08 A.M. CERRITOS, CA, US DEPARTURE SCAN
2:21 A.M. CERRITOS, CA, US LOCATION SCAN
12:55 A.M. CERRITOS, CA, US ARRIVAL SCAN
May 20, 2002 11:33 P.M. SAN BERNARDINO EAST, CA, US DEPARTURE SCAN
9:53 P.M. SAN BERNARDINO EAST, CA, US ORIGIN SCAN
4:58 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

Hi Myke (Cloud 9),

Tried to PM you, says full...can you clear it out so I can get in touch with you?

Thanks,
Dan:)

Hey Cloud9:

I'm betting that mine will be before yours, I live in Long Beach which is a lot closer to Cerritos than Redondo.:D

WOOOOHOOOO!!! I just got my Hellwig sway bar from UPS. Came in a 2'x4'x3" box. The total cost stated on the invoice is $126...I thought Cali residents got charged an additional $9 in tax. Oh well, thanks again Judy.

Just got the word.

IT'S HEERRE!!

Chuck F., you win. Mine still is "in transit".

There'll be wrenches a turnin' tonight under Tundras!

1:32 PM - 1 Sway Bar HERE!! Working on school work so will open, inspect late tonight and install tomorrow AM!! :D Judy

Mine came in a little before noon. Now I just need to sucker my friend to install it for me. :D

I hear cursing already and feel the pain of busted knuckles. This is going to be a mass install with the most Tundra drivers with sore and dirty hands at one time ever. The drivers side top end link bracket bolt is tough. Enjoy...... Remember it is worth it, once done your pleasure will last a real long time.

Just got back to the office and found mine sitting on top of my desk! Prinited out molecule's installation tips (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3549) and check all the parts. getting ready for a saturday full of installation fun! first is the hellwig bar then the basslink!

YIPPEE!!!!

Had mine delivered to my business today. Got it around 1pm pacific time. SWEEEEEET! Can't wait to get it on and rollin'. :D

Mine was on the doorstep when I got home about 3:15 P.M.. Now who wants to do the intsall for me?:D Actually I will probably put it on Monday when I go down to my buddies shop.
mike

(1) Hellwig anti-sway bar received at 7:50pm tonight!!!!!!! :D
Tundrabear, if I can wait until this Saturday, I'm with you (will install it then in the daylight).

THANKS AND BIG KUDOS TO JUDY (in particular) and to all the rest of you who made this great opportunity possible for us all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally, an unsung hero special thank you to Lon, who, without this website, this would never could have happened as soon or as efficiently as it did.:D

WoooHooo, My Bithday present arrived this afternoon. I installed both the Hellwig front anti-sway kit and rear anti-sway bar by myself in approx. 2.5 hours. Took it for a test ride, and it feels so much better.
Thanks again Judy for making this possible and to Lon for his fantastic TS website.:)

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Working on school work so will open, inspect late tonight and install tomorrow AM!!

Let me know how it goes . . . and when you can come up and do mine!!! :D

Frank

Originally posted by fdjanzen


Let me know how it goes . . . and when you can come up and do mine!!! :D

Frank

OK, Frank, let me get mine on first, then I'll commit to putting yours on...BTW, anyone close to Mac's Spring in San Bernadino can call then stop by and they'll install it for you ...gratis!! How's that for service with a smile!! ;) Judy

I'm looking forward to hearing to everybody's install stories.

I'm not going to do mine until the weekend. I didn't like the finish on the parts much, so I'm going to have it sand blasted today at my work and then paint (or powder coat) everything for a nice and smooth finish.

When I speak to people about the bar and its performance, I wouldn't want someone to say "yah, but it is so ugly".

Am I too picky?

ChuckF
From my experience when I installed mine.

1 - Check the fit of all bolts/nuts etc to make sure you got the "right" ones.
2 - Put some grease on the inside of the D bushing.
3 - Make sure where your vehicle is located when you do the install is level (measure height to top of fender opening on each side) If the truck is not in a level spot, you have a "heck" of a time getting both the endlinks on.

Yes, I agree w/ nhparrot that the parts should have been painted better. But I guess I was in too big of a hurry and installed it anyway. I would like to add these comments to his as follows:

1) The clearance between the bar and the passenger side shock mount bracket is marginal, say 1/4". (another member, "Bandit" called Mac Springs this a.m., and they contacted Hellwig who is going to ship him some 3/8" spacers). I will check mine tonight for any signs of rubbing, etc. 2) The drivers side is really hard to access with your arm in between the gas tank. It will take multiple trys to get the bolt that is welded to the plate thru the frame hole.
3) You will need to bend the bracket that holds the fuel line to the frame to keep it from rubbing the Hellwig bracket that attaches to the frame.
4) Bandit had one of the J-bolts break while starting to tighten it. He is going to drill a new hole in the frame and attach a new bolt/nut in the 2nd hole of the bracket.
5) I found out you need to put the end-link bolt into the bracket before you bolt down the bracket.

Good Luck,
Greg

When I did my install this is how I did it.

1- Decide if you will install endlinks with the nut down or up. If you think you want to disconnect the endlinks for 4 wheeling you want the nut up.

2 - Attach end link bracket to frame. If you are installing the endlinks nut down hang the endlinks in the bracket. Hand tighten. The driver's side bracket can be tough, you may need to tape a wire to the bolt and snake it through the frame hole.

3. Remove the bolts holding the brake line to the rear axle. Hang the U bolts over the axle and position it place. Bend the brake lines slightly to clear the U bolts. You may want to add some washers to shim out the brake line from the axle.

4. Attach the sway bar to the U bolts loosely to hold it in position.

5. Complete attaching the endlinks to the sway bar.

6. Center the sway bar, so neither endlink is at much of an angle.

7. Tighten up U bolt nuts.

8. Recheck everything, tighten & torque to spec.

9. Test Drive

10. Smile :D

I just checked the bar at the point where it has 1/4" clearance and it has been rubbing, the paint is gone. I will have to contact the boys @Mac's Spring Shop tomorrow and request the 3/8" spacers to be sent out.:mad:
See photo link: http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/index.pl?photo=1483
Here is another picture taken in the daytime that shows you minimal clearance (1/16") with it parked in the driveway:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/index.pl?photo=1497

Mine is "mostly" installed. I was on a roll and all went well, including the U-bolts (did a slight bend in the brake line to increase clearance.) Small hands made inserting the driver's side plate bolt a piece of cake. Everything loosely in place and positioned, I tighten up the end links first. Great. Then tighten and torque the passenger frame bracket. Great. Next stop, driver's side frame bracket. 20 minutes later I still haven't been able to "fix" the spinning bolt plate inside the frame so that I can tighten the lock nut. Ended up tightening rest of system and praying that nothing gets bent or destroyed till tomorrow when Al can tighten from the outside and I can get in from the back to hold it. On the first side the plate was arrested by the upper inside of the frame. Not so for the driver's side. Anyone else have trouble here? Ideas or suggestions welcome!! BTW, my install time would have been about 1 hr, 10 min, if that locknut had gone on like the other side. :) Judy

Sorry Tundrabear, but I couldn't wait until the weekend, had to try the install today after work. Funny thing....once you get going on checking out the parts and where they go, next thing you know, you're turnin wrenches!

Just got back from a test drive and MAN does it handle sweet. Big, big difference in cornering and steering. Big time! Now I know why people have been touting this as the best mod bang for your buck! Really amazing difference.

OK, so here's what I learned; read the instructions twice, checked out all the hardware, and found that (2) of the 1/2-20 nuts and (2) of the 7/16-10 nuts didn't mesh right with their bolts. These nuts all had a small rectangular stamp on one face of the wrench surface. I believe these either have a slightly different pitch angle to their thread (the bolts checked out fine with all the other nuts and with a 1/2-20 die I threaded over them) or the plating is a little thick. I used the tight 7/16" nuts on the J-bolts and they worked really well, almost like a locknut. I chased the threads of the 1/2-20 nuts with a tap and used them on the upper bracket/welded bolt fastener. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have chased the 1/2-20 nuts, would've just used them as is. So don't think you have metric nuts if you find these in the kit....they're standard, just a little tiny off in the pitch or I.D., and act great as angle bracket bolt locking devices.

I basically followed NHParrot's advice all the way vs. the Hellwig instructions. Installed the frame brackets first (loose), with the end links hanging. BTW, the frame bracket thru hole on the frame is NOT the big round hole, it's the slot right behind that hole, just ahead of the center of the wheel. On the driver's side, putting the welded bolt in, you can do it easily from between the gas tank and frame if you pop loose the two lines right there (brake or gas, I didn't check) from their rubber brackets and move them down. Gives you just the room you need, but still it's a bit tight and you have to kinda work that bracketbolt into the slot. Just stick the bolt in and it will pretty much stay there as you gently install the angle bracket, nut and washer. Also, I chose to use a large washer with the 7/16 J-bolt because of the large slot in the bracket....it carries the load to the bracket better. I also added lockwashers to both bracket nuts (they don't come in the kit....I would recommend using these or loctite on all the non-locking hardware just cause).

Remove the (2) brakeline holddown bolts (one on each side of the 3rd member), and loosen the one at the top of the 3rd member to give the line some stress relief for when you're squeezing in the U bolts. After you install the bar to the Ubolts and terminate it to the end links, add a washer about 1/8" thick between each of those (2) brakeline holddown clamps and the differential housing. This will reduce the amount that you'll have to tweek the brake lines at those points. And tweek them gently by pulling on them at these points, or use a pencil as a lever, you don't need much force to bend the lines, they're soft. Just be careful not to bend them too much, you don't want to put any kink or weak points in the line. Be careful and you'll do fine.

The only problem I had at all was that the sway bar definitely comes too close to the right (passenger side) shock mounting bracket. I'd say it's about 3/16" away from it, and I did my best many times to adjust and readjust the sway bar and frame brackets to favor it to the driver's side without angling the endlinks too much. I'll give it a few days and see if it rubs at all. Hopefully not, but it sure is close. Saw a post about this same problem and 3/8" bushings just a minute ago, maybe that's the right answer.

Anyway, not a bad installation at all! Pretty darn straightforward, really. Good luck and maybe someone can put together a "best method" when we get a few more posts.:sleep:

Cloud 9,
The nuts with the rectangle imprint ARE the locknuts. That's why you can't finger tighten them. You use them everywhere but on the U-bolts which are double-bolted and don't need locknuts.

Sounds like you didn't have a problem with the flat plate on the driver's side. How did you hold it in place to tighten the nut? Judy

well i too started dinking with the parts and an hour later....the bar was installed and i was taking a shower! for the most part the install was easy. rolled around the driveway on my craftsman creeper for a while too!

judy, as for the issue on the driver's side. i stuck my arm in between the gas tank & frame and held a socket (3/4"). the plates that you're talking about have hex heads on mine so i was able to use 2 socket sets to accomplish the task. i also noticed that connecting the end links to the L-shaped bracket is easier than connect the bracket to the frame.

as my loctite is all dried up, i grabbed some of the wife's clear nail polish and painted the threads after the nut has been tightened. this is a trick i used to do back in the day. it pretty much holds it's own until you need to break the seal with a wrench!

test drive was spectacular, but can't wait till tomorrow when i can drive a bit crazier with the wife outta the ride!

as for a sure shot install guide line.....i used the hellwig instructions, nhparrot's tips & molecule's tips (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3549)

Judy......duh on the locknuts, no wonder. Guess I messed two of the 1/2-20 ones up.......thank goodness for lockwashers for us meatheads! Course, then again, my bar's 100% installed.........

You know, I didn't have a chance in heck to even think of holding onto the welded bolt on the driver's side....my had just barely got the bolt thru the hole in the first place. Don't think I could've held on to it.

HOLD IT! YOU KNOW WHAT? I bet I know what's up now that I think about it a little......I mentioned in my post that I had chased the threads of two of the 1/2-20 nuts with a tap, and probably wouldn't have done that had I had to do it all over. Maybe I'm not so sure about that not being a blessing in disguise, now. Yeah, I removed the locking device from those nuts, and the nut spun on REALLY easy on that welded bolt once I did that. Your locking nut is creating a torque on that bolt and the bolt wants to spin, and if it can, it sure will. You might try that (if you have a tap), or just get a non-locking 1/2-20 grade 5 or better cad plated or stainless nut and use a lockwasher with it. I betcha that's why I had no problem. You might try that, what the heck.......

Course, there's always that phone call you can make to Robert at Hellwig. :rolleyes:

Thanks, Oliver and Cloud 9,
I'll check it out again in the daylight. Couldn't see how to get a socket in there. Will check it out again. I used the instructions, plus nhparrot's and Molecule's tips, also. Pretty straightforward, it seemed. Mine'll be done in the morning one way or the other. I can certainly rethread the locknut if I have to. Probably also have stainless nuts and lock washers to fit and definitely have Loctite!! :) Judy

Well I have the same problem, the passenger side shock mount. I was able to adjust it a little bit, but it comes too close for comfort. We have some wide streets over here and I was testing some "emergency turns" and BAM, it hit the shock mount hard. I adjusted it a bit more and I'll just drive normally until a fix comes out.

Well I'll be calling mac springs tomorrow to see what can be done.

Please see the daytime photo that shows minimal clearance of about 1/16" while parked in the driveway.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/index.pl?photo=1497

Boy, this is the best.

Here, because I'm a little anal and want a good paint job on my new bar I'm getting all kind of tips to help me get this job done right.

I'll be calling Richard today and ordering the spacer.

Thanks mucho, all.

Chuck

well it's been about 13 hours & 10 miles since the bar has been installed and the clearance on my setup is about the same as others. y2ktruc, have you called mac springs and requested the spacers yet? how much are they charging for that? i was thinking of just adding a few washers in there, but hot sure how that will effect the tension on the application.

on the upside....the bar is fabulous! i'm slivering along the streets like a snake instead of a 18-wheeler about to fish-tail! all the nuts are still tight. i was wondering if i could pick up some eurathane bushings instead of the rubber ones. i figure the eurathane ones would be better in the long haul.

I just got off the phone with Robert at Hellwig regarding the spacers.

He was supprised at the quick response that we had on this issue but pleasantly.

He has these in stock and is sending mine out today.

You can't use washers because they won't hold the nylon bushing in place, the spacer is a plate covering the top of the U bracket.

Call him at 800 367 5480 and be sure to thank him for this super deal and service.

OK, well I just got off the phone with Robert from Hellwig.

The quick fix is to loosen the ubolt assembly and rotate the whole sway bar forward. This should give clearance to that shock mount. It seems that the endlink assembly would also probably need some loosening to get this going.

I'm going to try it out tonight. He said if I still am not getting enough clearance to call him and get the spacers.

I'll post later tonight after I try the procedure.

I emailed Michael Wagenstein @ Mac's and he has responed to my home email that Hellwig is shipping him "some" spacers. He will ship them out UPS asap. I have just called Mac's and spoke to a gentleman by the name of John and told him that I emailed Michael a photo showing the clearance problem. He said they will send it to Hellwig. I told him that everyone is having the same problem, and it is not just a couple of TS members. He questioned if I have stock shocks? I told him it is not hitting the shock, it is the mount that is welded to the rear axle.

Rotating the bar in the other post sounds like that would also rotat the u-bolts, which would not make them vertical? umm:confused:

Rotating the bar forward does tilt the end link -- not a good solution. Seems the clearance problem is about the same whether it's a 2- or 4-wheel drive. Solution to holding the flat bolt plate (which had a large weld bead on the back head which wouldn't take a socket anyway) was to use a 3 1/2" C clamp through the large round hole to the left of the bracket. I took the horizontally positioned plate and held it perfectly to the frame to torque the locknut on. Will post pics and my tool list tonight after school. ;) Judy

So is Hellwig blowing smoke up my ... ?

Can't we just get the damn spacers and be done with it. Would someone from Mac Springs or Hellwig step up with a solution?

-E

Hellwig is not blowing smoke, they have been very helpful.

See my and other posts from earlier, others have gotten their spacers and mine is coming on Friday.

The tilting the bar thing was for those that were already installed and are waiting spacers.

Hellwig and Mac's have been very helpful to me and others.

Just got off the phone w/ Robert at Helwig and said to try the rotate quick fix solution and I asked if this would cause any problems and he assured me none at all. But, he said if I still want the spacers, to call back and let him know. He' was very pleasant and courteous and I am sure that's hard to do after the barrage of phone calls from TS members he's been gettin.

I had the same clearance problem a few months ago complete with telltale flat spot on the shock mount...ask nhparrot...I bugged him enough about how much clearance he had between the bar and the passenger shock mount...

Anyway...I tried every suggestion that Robert had...measured the lengths of the arms, the distance between the arms -- both within specs, rotated the ubolts on the axle, etc. Nothing worked.

Turned out I had a malformed bar of some sort. Hellwig sent me a new one. I put it on and it has been perfect from that day forward. I now have over 3/16" clearance between the bar and the shock mount, with both ubolt brackets parallel to the ground.

Just talked to Robert to order my spacers.....took all of two minutes, if that much. Great service.

OS

WOW!! Now I know what TundraBear meant by slithering through town. Truck feels like the center of gravity dropped 15 inches and it's gliding smoothly on its belly--even dampened out the extra road sensitivity added by the HD shocks!! LOVE this ride.

Thought I'd add my tool list with a couple of pics:

Tape measure - to check wheel well height to assure level
Screwdriver - to gently ease out brake line for U-bolt pass-through
3/4" box wrench
11/16 box wrench
3/4" socket
11/16" socket
12mm socket (to remove/replace brakeline tab screws for washer spacer add under tabs)
Torque wrench
1 cardboard box - (since I'm wimpy and used it to hold sway bar up to U-bolts till I could put nuts on the bottom of the assemblies.
2 each 5/16" washers 1'16" thick to use as spacers under brake line tabs
Instructions and printouts from nhparrot, molecule and Greg.
1 bottle water - for working in sun

Check in My Photos for the driver's side L-bracket with a C-clamp in the large adjacent hole holding the bolt plate. Another photo shows the shock mount proximity to the sway bar. Third photo shows the whole installed assembly. Plus the tool layout (less the 12mm socket) Just for Fun!!

AND only physical damage was scraping my hand on the security door when I took the package from the UPS driver. :D Not a bad install!! ;) Judy

Well mine is in and I notice a lot more tire squeal than before when making 90 degree turns. I guess this normal operation for an anti-sway bar. And Judy a wrench does fit on the back of square plate/bolt assembly. It isn’t easy to reach but it helps to have an assistant.

Robert:D

Mine had a large weld blob so nothing fit on it. Al (engineer to rescue) said, "Why didn't you just use a C-clamp to hold it?" Worked like a champion. I've gotten a little squeal a couple of times, too. Gotta watch it or you'll think I'm gettin' reckless here!! :D Feels so good, though, really makes me feel like steppin' on it. :oHN:o Judy

Judy, GREAT pics and you're such a help to everyone. You forgot to add (1) dab of grease to your toolkit for the D-bushings, but that's about it (LOL).

One thing I wanted to mention, and I don't know if there's a right or wrong about this; I positioned my U bolts just to the inside (towards the third member) of the brake line hold down clamps. I see that you've positioned yours just to the outside and at the end of the straight section of the sway bar.

Does anyone know what the optimum position is for these U-bolts (inside or outside the brakeline hold downs)?

I believe I read an earlier post to a Hellwig thread that addressed the positioning of the u-bolts. I started out with mine in the position that Judy has hers, but then I moved them in towards the differential so they were centered on the bar configuration. I notice Judy has a lot more shock mount clearance than I do.

I found it ------ it sounds like may they go outward from the differential. Here you go - http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2549&highlight=Hellwig+AntiSway

Does anyone else have an answer to the best postion?
THX

Cloud 9,
TundraV84Me was told by Robert at Hellwig to put the U-bolts as far out on the flat as possible, so I did that. I used a large screwdriver to ease out the brake line a little, then just added a 1/16" washer under the hold down tab for some extra clearance. I didn't use any grease - couldn't find it immediately. Put a tiny spray of Ru-Glide inside the D-bushings but seemed like I wouldn't have needed it. Since they have a split, they were pretty easy to position.

I'm just wondering if that position somehow affects the shock mount clearance at all? :confused:

~Judy

MamaRose........

It's not a big deal to experiment around a little, so later this afternoon I'll do that and re-position the U-bolts as you did and see if that changes the clearance. Besides, I plum FORGOT to grease up the D-bushings, so I had planned to un-do the U-bolts anywho.

In your pic, it seems that you have a LOT of clearance between the shock mount and sway bar (1/2" or more?), than I and others do, so I'm gonna fiddle around a little with that and will post the results of the before and after for those who haven't yet received or installed their bars. Sorry I don't have a digital camera (yet) to post the before and after photos, though.

And to all of you, have a great and safe Memorial day weekend, flag your flag high and please take a moment to pay your respect and give thanks to those who gave the ultimate sacrifice for us to enjoy all the freedoms and the great country that we enjoy today!
http://216.40.201.38/contrib/navigator/usa.gif

That's super, Cloud 9, then you can let us know if it makes a difference in that clearance. About the grease, it should only matter if you have trouble positioning it on the bar. Once tightened, you definitely wouldn't want any movement. I didn't think mine would have been a problem even without the Ru-glide.

Anxious to hear your results. :) Judy

Hey Judy.....as much as I hate to say this, the instructions (at the bottom of the page with the red ink) say "to avoid D-bushing squeeking, apply grease to the bushings before installing". I could see how the interaction between them when driving could do that, especially if the bushing starts to dry out over time.

I SURE don't want to be squeekin around town with my baby, so a greasin' I'm a goin.....(and I sure do hope Possum and EDJ aren't reading into that, LOL).

i just can't say enuf good stuff about this mod. judy....you're a winner in my book. thank you again for spearheading this deally with mac springs. the hour or so that i spent gettign attacked by fleas while installing the bar the other nite was well worth the pain. I LOVE THIS MOD!!!!!!

as for pass side clearance. i too installed the u-bolts as far out as possible. the gap from the shock mount appears rather close, but it has not hit yet (even in inner-city los angeles pot holes).

any word on using eurathane bushings instead of the rubber ones?

You're SO right, Cloud 9--shoulda greased 'em!! When they start to squeek, I'll fix it.

TundraBear, nhparrot and others have used the Addco urethane bushings (& end link kits). I thought that I'd let the rubber ones wear out first. :D You really described the feel of this mod...!! I love it!!!! :cool: Judy

Engineer Al says I'm saved by the Ru-glide, that that is an excellent anti-squeek lubricant. Whew!!

I'm pretty sure the D-bushings and the endlink bushings that come with the bar are urethane, although the endlink bushings are pretty cheap...

I only have pne question to Toyota.

Why dosen't the Tundra come ith a rear Swaybar?

No other mod that I have done at any price has pleased me as much as this mod (and I have done lots of mods for lots of money).

I disassembled, reassembled, disassembled and reassembled the sway bar today to check out what difference the position (inboard or outboard) might make with regards to the right shock mount. What I found was that it just plain doesn't make a bit of difference where the U-bolts are positioned. Bummer. So, I'm living with my 3/16" clearance with the U-bolts installed just to the inside of the brakeline hold down clamps on the differential housing.

Loctite stock must've gone up, I used a bunch.......

Hey IBTundraGuy2:

One of the reasons that the factory doesn't install anti-sway bars on trucks is that by design the limit the movement of the rear axle.

Most trucks (believe it or not) are designed for work and when on uneven surfaces or 4wheelin the rear axle needs as much motion as possible.

You'll notice that there is a discussion about making this mod "quick release" so that it can be removed quickly for off road.

If it is in place and one wheel is on a high spot, the one in the low spot will not , in some cases, even be on the ground because the anti-sway bar has restricted it's movement by design.

But I'll tell you, this is the best mod that I have done thus far. I have a shell and carpet kit adding weight to the back of my truck but with this bar installed I can take corners like my wifes Acura Integra (well almost).

The best words that can descripe this mod are WAH WHOO!

This is going to ruin my mileage, I'm going to want to play too much.

Have any of you engeering types looked at putting together a quick release for the endlinks. I don't 4X4 that much, but when I do I need all the help I can get.
mike

mbisson.......I'm GOING to look at a quick release mod to the end links, possibly using pip (aka ball-lock) pins. That way, all you'll need to do is push a button, pull the pin and out it comes. However, I JUST installed the sway bar and don't intend to do any serious 4wd stuff for a few months, so I've got a bunch of other priorities ahead of this. Stay tuned, I hope to have something for us in a couple of months. Later.....

My swaybar has a small clearance between the passenger side shock mount and the bar. Tomorrow i'm gonna call Robert @Hellwig and have him ship me the 3/8 spacers to add clearance. The spacers go between the saddle brackets and the U plate. I'll post to let you know how it goes.

TundraMan

Originally posted by Cloud9
I disassembled, reassembled, disassembled and reassembled the sway bar today to check out what difference the position (inboard or outboard) might make with regards to the right shock mount. What I found was that it just plain doesn't make a bit of difference where the U-bolts are positioned. Bummer. So, I'm living with my 3/16" clearance with the U-bolts installed just to the inside of the brakeline hold down clamps on the differential housing.

Loctite stock must've gone up, I used a bunch.......

Cloud9 when I did what you did, I noticed that the rear stiffness did change slightly. When I put the brackets as close together as I possibly could, I did notice that the stiffness that it added to the rear suspension was slightly less. The cornering didn't really change that I noticed, but when pulling our of a driveway and the rear was going to "bottom", it did it slightly softer with the brackets closer together than farther apart.

I was hoping it would go back to stock, but I can live with what it is. I don't even notice any more and the difference it added to the cornering is more than worth the slightly stiffer ride.

alan

Wow!! My wife's reaction after the install; and I'm the performance nut in the family.
Thanks to everone who included photos, tools and tips. A totally painless install requiring only 55 minutes from start to finish.
Special thanks to Tundra Rose for the special members buy.

I just received a box from Hellwig today with the 3/8" spacers and no instructions for use. Maybe a real dumb question, but I gotta ask just in case nobody thought of this.....if these spacers are installed between the two U-bolt brackets, wouldn't you think that might make the D bushing sloppy or when torqued up, deformed? Maybe I'm not thinking straight on this, but had to ask..........

Hey Judy.....could you ask Engineer Al what he thinks? :eek:

Since we're dealing with a warranted after-market part, I think even Engineer Al shouldn't second guess it. I'd call Robert at Hellwig and ask him directly. I could see some help if the were on the end link because of the tilt angle but that would make starting the locknut almost impossible. putting it directly against the D-bushing would ultimately just grind it into the bushing. Just call...this seems like a better safe than sorry moment!! ;) Judy

Is this a great forum or what?:D

To anyone who has the same concern I had or who wants to see the before and after photos (of adding the 3/8" spacer), y2Ktruc was kind enough to send me a PM with his photos attached. Here's the link (P.S....also check out the pic of Y2Ktruc's very cool billet grill....hadn't seen anything quite like this before).

Y2Ktruc's Pics (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/index.pl?user=1264&cat=500&thumb=1)

TundraRose and TundraAl, thanks for the advice, but sometimes a picture paints a thousand words........looks straightup good to go!

Thanks very much Y2Ktruc!!:)

for those of you seeking quick-release mounts for your swaybars, i'm going to get a set of disconnects from rockstomper in a few weeks here (after i get a RAS kit). they're rated well by quite a few 4x4 sites and mags, seriously beefy and easy to use...75 bucks. you could perhaps do the same sort of thing yourself but i suspect the time and money invested would be close to if not surpass the 75 bones for a ready-made set...

ill post a thread somewheres once i get them.

-sean

You're right, Cloud 9, those pics are all you need...and now I know what the spacer LOOKS like, too!!! Hey, there's even a pic of Offc. Bob's bar that Mac's Spring took. :D Judy

TundraRose...I've been meaning to tell you this without bursting your bubble but I don't know how to do that so here goes.......

a real honorary Texan don't need no plaque to prove it. Ask Possum who else out here might've been made an honorary Texan (BEFORE the LSB)....he'll tell ya....

Sincerely yours,

Plaqueless (and I don't mean I got clean teeth, neither).

P.S. Take care and I'm not REALLY jealous cause you got a plaque. No, really......

Originally posted by Cloud9
a real honorary Texan don't need no plaque to prove it. Ask Possum who else out here might've been made an honorary Texan (BEFORE the LSB)....he'll tell ya....

Judy and I were honorary Texans long before the LSB. Now we have the plaques to prove it! :D

~WildMustang ;)

NOW NOW NOW...Let's all calm down.:p

To become an "Honorary" Texan all ya gotta do is post some BS in Texas.

Anyone may apply....

We like BS!:D So come on over for a visit!

Dan ;)

Hey Possum........do real Texans fight about their pride? I'm sure havin fun with the Honorary thing. Just a little reality check there........

OK, I give. I'm calling "Uncle". You ladies are the oldest Honorary Texans I know of.

Peace TS sisters!!!!!!!!

Y2Ktruk...........I couldn't answer your PM to me because you have it turned off in your profile. So here' s your answer; to create a hyperlink, when you're writing a post, click on the http:// button. A prompt will come up asking you what you want to call your hyperlink. That's where I typed in "Y2Ktruck pics". Then click "OK" and another box comes up that asks you to type in (or paste if you've thought ahead and already right click copied the URL address of the link you want to show) the URL address of the link you want to insert into your post. Bingo, done. Try it, it's easy (trust me.......if I can do it, you gotta know it's easy). Good luck. Also, get your PM back working in your profile, it's real handy. If you have a problem with that, contact a moderator and they'll walk you thru how to activate your PM.

Cloud9 thank you for the grill compliment. I sent you a PM on the details.
I originally mounted my u-bolts on the inboard position. Last night when I installed the 3/8" spacers, I moved them to the outboard position. It may be my imagination, but the ride seems to be a lot stiffer, rougher, and it seems like I feel everything in the road now. I may wind up moving them back to the inboard position.:confused:

Well here is my .02 cents on the best postioning [for me] on the u-clamps. This a.m. I re-located the u-clamps back to the inboard location. I think I have got the "Slithering" feeling back, even the speed bumps in my tract are less harsh now. The ride is smoother and not as stiff and rough.
Per Michael Wagenstein [mike@macsspring.com] at Mac's Spring Shop, "with the clamps mounted closer to the diff. there is more bar to twist so that is a possible reason why there is a rougher ride when placed outboard". It may be worth the effort for fellow TS members to experiment and see which position seems to be the best location, and then post their opinions.
Also Cloud9 gave me a Great Tip about cutting off the 1-1/4" excess u-bolt length. The material is very hard steel and you need a Dremel saw blade to cut them. And here I thought I was going to use a Hacksaw to do the job.

Thanks for the update as to location. I had mine mounted closer to the differential and after seeing others installed outside the brake line connection I was thinking to change it.

Not now. One question I have is how much did you pay for the front sway bar? And how do you like it?

So I am having a little trouble following what has been said. Is it better to have the clamps closer to the diff or farther from the diff? Where is the best location?

Thanks,
Wes

well it looks like if you want a slightly harder ride, put them nearest the differential. If you want a stiffer ride than that, move 'em to the outside.

EricL, Please click on the Search button under my post, and you will see my info. on the front kit listed with my other posts.
thx,
Greg(y2ktruc)

Bummer post here, sorry about this, but for those of us who are installing the endlinks with the nut "up", please check this out......

I was telling a guy at work today, who owns a 2000 Tundra, how cool the sway bar is, and what a difference it has made. So I'm showing him the sway bar and the endlinks, and we both notice that one of the end links is missing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No bueno........:(

I installed the endlinks with the the nylon locknut UP, so I could remove it easily for offroading. Unfortunately, the nylon locknut was either worn out (from two installations and removals) or it was defective, because now I'm without one of the two end links. I have yet to read a thread where this has happened to anyone, but I promise you it wasn't pilot error. If you're positioning the nylon locknuts UP, I'd strongly recommend using a backup nut, similar to the double nut setup with the u-bolts. ;)

Maybe this is a little blessing in disguise, because I'm now going to checkout those other (Adco?) improved endlinks and maybe order a pair of them up vs. the stock Hellwig ones. Anywho, I just wanted to let those of you who have installed the endlinks "upside down" to know about this and maybe put those extra two locking nuts as backups to the nylon locknuts so you don't lose an endlink as I did.

BTW, I wouldn't have posted this if I wasn't 200% sure that I did torque up both the end links when I installed them the last time because I remember comparing the swell of the bushings on each side (to match) after torquing both sides up.

Originally posted by Cloud9
Bummer post here, sorry about this, but for those of us who are installing the endlinks with the nut "up", please check this out......



In general, when ever you are installing a bolt/nut pair you try to install it so that the bolt isn't going to "fall" out if the nut comes loose. If there is enough vibration, it still will, but hopefully you catch it before then.

Sometimes though, you have to install it nut side down.

Even without lock washers, those nuts shouldn't have come loose, they were improperly torqued.

Too, it's a good idea after an installation to just check and "see how things are doing" a couple of day, then a couple of weeks, then a couple of months after an installation. If you're really meticulous when you do it the first time, you wouldn't have to do this. But in practice there are so many times I get distracted and forget something.

Too, it's one of the reason I'll biefly look over even work that was done for me by a mechanic. A little extra precaution never hurts and it's easier to catch something when it's starting to break loose than after it already has.

Alan

Alan, Thanks for taking the time to post your useful comments. That said, I installed the nut ON PURPOSE "nut up" (and I believe NHParrot did this a while back, that's where I got the tip).. so I could remove the endlink whenever I wanted to go 4 wheeling (generally only in the fall). I completely agree with your comments, and all was done (torque, checked the next day and checked a week afterwards). My thinking is that the nylon insert in the nut spun out upon torquing.

So all was conciously done this way, and I would've lost the nut and washer and bottom bushing if my guess is correct, even if they were installed as planned. I will safety wire or double nut it up (or both) when I install my Addco links.

Originally posted by Cloud9
Alan, Thanks for taking the time to post your useful comments. That said, I installed the nut ON PURPOSE "nut up" (and I believe NHParrot did this a while back, that's where I got the tip).. so I could remove the endlink whenever I wanted to go 4 wheeling (generally only in the fall). I completely agree with your comments, and all was done (torque, checked the next day and checked a week afterwards). My thinking is that the nylon insert in the nut spun out upon torquing.

So all was conciously done this way, and I would've lost the nut and washer and bottom bushing if my guess is correct, even if they were installed as planned. I will safety wire or double nut it up (or both) when I install my Addco links.

You should be able to get a full sized nut and and a half sized jamb nut on there okay. I was going to put jamb nuts under my stainless aircraft nuts (locking insert), but I didn't have the room. But if you use a normal nut, a locking or jamb nut should fit on their fine.

Too, the Addco links might have more threads. You might think about drilling a small hole through the shaft to pin it or lock ring it so that it can't fall through - ever.

Alan

Cloud9. I installed my Hellwig with the Addco end links. Their part number or size was 007. I purchased them from our local Autozone. They were in stock and on the shelf. They actually were "just" slightly shorter than the ones that came with the bar. I had a heck of time getting the nuts started (in the down position) but I got em. I also have the bar hitting the shock mount problem. It actual has opened up to about 3/16 now with the corner of the mount worn down.

Question about spacers. I have received the 3/8-spacer plates from Hellwig. How much disassembly is required to put them in? Can you do it with the end links still attached?

Niles

nwaring: Thank you for the Addco end link info. To install the spacers, merely loosen the nuts on both sides, but on one side just enough to let the bar lower slightly, then disassemble the opposite side and install the spacer. Leave the newly installed spacer side nuts loose enough to repeat the spacer install on the opposite side. There is no need to involve the end links.

Originally posted by y2ktruc
nwaring: Thank you for the Addco end link info. To install the spacers, merely loosen the nuts on both sides, but on one side just enough to let the bar lower slightly, then disassemble the opposite side and install the spacer. Leave the newly installed spacer side nuts loose enough to repeat the spacer install on the opposite side. There is no need to involve the end links.

y2ktruc,

I looked at your pictures and then wondered why mine didn't look like yours. My bar was a LOT farther from the shock support. Mine isn't even close to contacting anything. I'm assuming that you have a 2000, too.

You know, if you mount the brackets even further inward (I probably have mine mounted inward at least another two inches and it might be even closer to four or more on each side), the ride is even softer and the bar has more clearance from the shock mount as the bar drops down another quarter to a half inch from the rear axle. You'd have that much more clearance. I've got almost and inch I think maybe more.

I think initially I had mine where yours is and still found the ride too hard. So I moved it *all* the way in to the curve on the sway bar (the bushing even has a bit of the curve in it on each side). That works fine and the bar has the most rotation (flex) available to it.

You still get the sway control and the rear end spring is more normal. I wish they had a bar that was a slightly smaller diameter available too. It would be even more of a even compromise of sway control while still allowing for the "natural" Tundra ride. That's a pretty darn thick bar!!

From a standpoint of cushy ride, putting those brackets as close together as [possible] makes a big difference!! If ride quality doesn't matter. Putting it (somewhat) centered like you did or outside (for the maximum stiffness is fine).

Did you put the center of the sway bar inline with your drive axles (center of the pumpkin). It could be you gave up some clearance on one side for more clearance on the other. Center the bar and it will be more equal. It's easy just to put it on and not really center the bar. It can slide back and forth a lot in those bushings (until you tighten them down, that is).




Alan

Where do you get these spacers I am also having a little clearence problem.
Wes

Wes,
The spacers come from Robert at Hellwig...just give him a call.

Alan,
More people with clearance problems had the U-bolts in the inside position - and those who had the problem but also tried the outboard position, I believe, still reported the problem. The centering is important. I did that and don't have the problem. Be interesting to know how many did careful centering and ended up with a problem.

~Judy

Thanks y2ktruc for the response. That's what I wanted to hear.

Judy. I put the u-bolts tight to the outside of the brake line hold down tabs. My D bushing is almost on the outside curve of the bar where it turns and points toward the end link. The bar appears (eyeball) to be centered on the pumpkin and my end links point straight down. I spend a lot of time trying to get the bar away from the shock mount but still trying to keep the u-bolts pointed straight down. Now I did use Addco end links that were a tad (3/16 max) shorter than the Hellwig ones. I don't think that made much of a difference. It's hard to explain why some people have the problem and others don't unless it's a combination of what year the truck is and subtle differences in the bar's construction. Oh well…..the spacers look like they will resolve the problem.

Niles

Niles,
That sounds like some trucks-think multiple years are affected-are going to have this problem. Sounds like a stack tolerance variability. I know that Offc. Bob and I both have ours located to the far outside as you've described. While there isn't a huge clearance, it doesn't hit at all. The Addco end links shouldn't be a problem unless the spacer length changed. The bolt shorter just sounds like a pain to start the nut but then should be a non-player. Thanks for the input. Judy

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Wes,
The spacers come from Robert at Hellwig...just give him a call.

Alan,
More people with clearance problems had the U-bolts in the inside position - and those who had the problem but also tried the outboard position, I believe, still reported the problem. The centering is important. I did that and don't have the problem. Be interesting to know how many did careful centering and ended up with a problem.

~Judy

Wanted to compliment you Judy on how you installed your sway bar. I never thought of using the c-clamp. Great idea. I think the centering helps a lot. The when I first put it on, I think I just "put it on" and didn't center it. Didn't have a clearance problem, but I wanted it perfect. Too, I swapped the nuts at the same time for stainless aircraft nuts.

I don't know how someone would have the problem if the moved the bracket inboard. Due to the curver of the axle housing it drops down and should provide the maximum clearance.

I ran mine as far inward as I could and still be able to clamp the bar.

Alan

Originally posted by nwaring
Thanks y2ktruc for the response. That's what I wanted to hear.

It's hard to explain why some people have the problem and others don't unless it's a combination of what year the truck is and subtle differences in the bar's construction. Oh well…..the spacers look like they will resolve the problem.

Niles

Maybe Toyota had multiple vendors on the axle housing and the core measurements were the same but some periphery (like bracket attachment) might have changed. What mattered is where the shocks attached.

Mine isn't even close. I've got a good inch of clearance or more.


Alan

Alan, my thoughts were that you'd have maximum clearance in a stopped and level condition further inside but in a cornering or uneven road situation, you'd have greatest flex with greatest shock mount contact risk. Not sure, though. Judy

Originally posted by Tundra Rose
Alan, my thoughts were that you'd have maximum clearance in a stopped and level condition further inside but in a cornering or uneven road situation, you'd have greatest flex with greatest shock mount contact risk. Not sure, though. Judy


Never thought about it that way. Because it's a little thicker than I like, I was trying to minimize it's effects. That bar size is over kill for a "passenger" truck. But if you load it up, it might be just fine. I never really noticed the few times that I've had 1,600 pounds in there. The truck doesn't really carry that weight well.

I don't think it will deform enough to cause a difference, but one way to find out. I'll put a chunk of clay on both sides and I'll rip around a few corners to see if it deforms. That will tell me a lot more than theorizing.

That bar is so thick , that I doubt it would flex longitudinally, but it might. Good point, though. I'll check it's validity.


alan

akauth, Alan.....yes I have a 2000, thusly my handle "y2ktruc". Thank you for your input on centering, it is something to consider. I just took a few measurements and everything seems to be centered. My endlinks appear to be vertical, I used a small bubble level to check the frame brackets prior to tightening them down. When I installed the bar, I left all of the hardware loose until I attached the end links. Then I slid the clamps to the inside of the brake line brackets and tightened everything down. When I got the spacers, I moved the clamps on the outside of the brake line brackets. The clearance did not change until I installed the spacers. Only the ride changed. I currently have them back to the original position which is on the inside of the brake line brackets. The clamps appear to be in the middle of the bar between the pumpkin and the bend in the bar towards the endlinks.
It still makes no sense why some TS members have clearance problems and others do. I guess one can't assume that all of the bars were manufactued the same. I also noticed that in the picture I posted of Offc. Bob's bar, his u-clamps go up the middle of the axle (the welded bead), mine only come up 1/4 of the way.
Greg

Great idea, Alan. My thought was less bar flex and more fittings flex. Your test would answer either way, though. Anxious to hear how it turns out. :) Judy

Originally posted by y2ktruc
akauth, Alan.....yes I have a 2000, thusly my handle "y2ktruc". Thank you for your input on centering, it is something to consider. I just took a few measurements and everything seems to be centered. My endlinks appear to be vertical, I used a small bubble level to check the frame brackets prior to tightening them down. When I installed the bar, I left all of the hardware loose until I attached the end links. Then I slid the clamps to the inside of the brake line brackets and tightened everything down. When I got the spacers, I moved the clamps on the outside of the brake line brackets. The clearance did not change until I installed the spacers. Only the ride changed. I currently have them back to the original position which is on the inside of the brake line brackets. The clamps appear to be in the middle of the bar between the pumpkin and the bend in the bar towards the endlinks.
It still makes no sense why some TS members have clearance problems and others do. I guess one can't assume that all of the bars were manufactued the same. I also noticed that in the picture I posted of Offc. Bob's bar, his u-clamps go up the middle of the axle (the welded bead), mine only come up 1/4 of the way.
Greg

You know, my brackets aren't as level as yours are. (I don't think).

That might account for a slight change in clearance. For example, spin it around the housing and it could vary by as much as a half inch or more I would think.

Maybe they changed the brackets which requires the spacers as mine certainly did not need them.

I'll check to see how far my clamps go up. To it might be misleading because he might have spun them around the housing a little as I think I did.

I tried to make them level to the ground, but I was on a hill when I did it and I don't know that the brackets really are level. Works for me though.

I put my brackets next to the bend that goes around the pumpkin. In fact, I've got a little bit of the bend in the clamp. Just a bit.

alan

I have compared the angle of the u-bolts for the leaf springs to the Hellwig bar and they are not the same. The ones for the leaf springs seem to be angled forward, and the bars rearward.
Has anyone else compared their angles? Some Photos would be of great assistance.:confused:

Alan et. all......with regards to the Hellwig sway bar being "too thick for a passenger truck" I think I have an answer. The question would be best answered by the design engineer(s) at Hellwig, but here's a couple things I was told by a friend who teaches road racing out at Rosamond and is a tool designer at my work (Boeing);

1) The diameter of the rear anti-sway bar needs to compliment the diameter of the front anti-sway bar so that the understeering condition is as equal as possible to both ends of the vehicle. It is possible to actually create a problem with an underdesigned or an overdesigned rear or front bar with regards to it's diameter.
In other words, both the bars need to work together, in conjunction with one another.

2) The length of the endlinks are critical to the performance of the bar and how the vehicle reacts to this new lever action in the rear (BTW, on the Mac's Spring site, I noticed also that Hellwig sells adjustable end links for our rigs). My buddy told me that if the bar comes with adjustable links (of course it didn't, but I guess racing car anti-sways do), to try setting it to the lowest link setting first and check the understeer (in a wide open area on a turn). Then move it up a notch and try it again to see if that works better. If you get to the point where the truck's end starts breaking loose and coming around, that's probably stiffer than we should have it and to back it off to a setting that you're most comfortable driving with. This is how they set anti-sway bars where he races, and he said it's different with every car, even of the same type vehicle, due to driver weight, tire size, etc. We're not that different, so the stock links are probably pretty darn optomized for trucks (course, for those lowered "Lightning" type Tundras, those owners might want to experiment with this for better cornering....

And from that and the little I've learned about sway bars just recently, my own thinking on why Y2Ktruk found that the ride was a little bit stiffer when he positioned his U-bolts to the outside of the brake line hold down clamps.....essentially, that was similar to "choking up on the bat", i.e., getting a quicker transfer of energy from the frame/endlinks to the bar, but also constricted or had less action of the bar acting as a lever since the U-bolts were positioned closer to the ends of the bar and not allowing the bar to optimially transfer all the energy to the other side. As far as the bar flexing, if it didn't (to a very small degree), I don't know how the heck a noticeable difference in the stiffness of the ride could be explained just from changing the position of the U-bolts by a couple of inches.

We've all got a little experience now under our belt, and I've read a lot of conjecture on what we think are the causes for the different clearances on our trucks between the bar and the right shock mount. I almost think it's getting to be a no-brainer from the posts we've had here. So here's my take from all the text and from my own experiments; From moving the U-bolts in and out, positioning them at a slight angle both forward and back, and straight up, and loosening the frame brackets during these adjustments to optimize this clearance, None of that "posturing" increased the clearance to above 3/8" no matter what I did (without compromising the verticality of the end links by more than 10 degrees...can't have that!). From all this and other's comments, it seems more and more obvious to me that the Hellwig design is a little off and they should've allowed more margin in their design for the shock mount, and that seems to be all there is to that, IMHO. Maybe now we can quit beating this to death, let it all rest in peace and just enjoy these beautiful little levers we have. Sorry for another tome....Later.......

Thanks, Cloud 9, for so much helpful information along with your experiences. Hopefully, we can get to just enjoying the new ride, soon!!! ;) Judy

Hey Cloud9, thanks for the tome.

I was feeling like you, these are great items, maybe not perfect but we must remember that we aren't driving Porches these are TRUCKS.

I have a shell and carpet kit in mine and the handeling difference is incredible, I feel so much more in control in all situations.

Thanks Judy for putting this together.

Chuck

Originally posted by Cloud9
Alan et. all......with regards to the Hellwig sway bar being "too thick for a passenger truck" I think I have an answer. The question would be best answered by the design engineer(s) at Hellwig, but here's a couple things I was told by a friend who teaches road racing out at Rosamond and is a tool designer at my work (Boeing);

1) The diameter of the rear anti-sway bar needs to compliment the diameter of the front anti-sway bar so that the understeering condition is as equal as possible to both ends of the vehicle. It is possible to actually create a problem with an underdesigned or an overdesigned rear or front bar with regards to it's diameter.
In other words, both the bars need to work together, in conjunction with one another.

2) The length of the endlinks are critical to the performance of the bar and how the vehicle reacts to this new lever action in the rear (BTW, on the Mac's Spring site, I noticed also that Hellwig sells adjustable end links for our rigs). My buddy told me that if the bar comes with adjustable links (of course it didn't, but I guess racing car anti-sways do), to try setting it to the lowest link setting first and check the understeer (in a wide open area on a turn). Then move it up a notch and try it again to see if that works better. If you get to the point where the truck's end starts breaking loose and coming around, that's probably stiffer than we should have it and to back it off to a setting that you're most comfortable driving with. This is how they set anti-sway bars where he races, and he said it's different with every car, even of the same type vehicle, due to driver weight, tire size, etc. We're not that different, so the stock links are probably pretty darn optomized for trucks (course, for those lowered "Lightning" type Tundras, those owners might want to experiment with this for better cornering....

And from that and the little I've learned about sway bars just recently, my own thinking on why Y2Ktruk found that the ride was a little bit stiffer when he positioned his U-bolts to the outside of the brake line hold down clamps.....essentially, that was similar to "choking up on the bat", i.e., getting a quicker transfer of energy from the frame/endlinks to the bar, but also constricted or had less action of the bar acting as a lever since the U-bolts were positioned closer to the ends of the bar and not allowing the bar to optimially transfer all the energy to the other side. As far as the bar flexing, if it didn't (to a very small degree), I don't know how the heck a noticeable difference in the stiffness of the ride could be explained just from changing the position of the U-bolts by a couple of inches.

We've all got a little experience now under our belt, and I've read a lot of conjecture on what we think are the causes for the different clearances on our trucks between the bar and the right shock mount. I almost think it's getting to be a no-brainer from the posts we've had here. So here's my take from all the text and from my own experiments; From moving the U-bolts in and out, positioning them at a slight angle both forward and back, and straight up, and loosening the frame brackets during these adjustments to optimize this clearance, None of that "posturing" increased the clearance to above 3/8" no matter what I did (without compromising the verticality of the end links by more than 10 degrees...can't have that!). From all this and other's comments, it seems more and more obvious to me that the Hellwig design is a little off and they should've allowed more margin in their design for the shock mount, and that seems to be all there is to that, IMHO. Maybe now we can quit beating this to death, let it all rest in peace and just enjoy these beautiful little levers we have. Sorry for another tome....Later.......

You're right about the "choking the bat principle". Though it's more of a choking the spring. It only can go so far before it starts to "bottom". Though more force can always cause more deflection, of course, so there is no such thing as a literal bottoming. There are two different type of deflection to take into account. Rotational and end deflection. That spring works more on rotational energy and not so much end deflection (like a diving board does) so diameter can make a big difference in the spring constant. The other thing is the length available for deflection. That's why the bar feels "softer" when you move the brackets inward. It can rotate farther before the bar starts to stiffen up, it also has more room for end deflection.

I think that either the axle housings were manufactured slightly differently for some reason by Toyota (different vendors?) or Hellwig did a redesign somewhere down the line. There is a third possibility also that is the reality of manufacture.

I've had my bar for a while. Do any people who've had their bar for more than a year have the clearance issue? Seems to be more recent purchasers that have the problem.

Too, it might be that Hellwig substituted different axle brackets to complete some orders. They were close, but not quite the same. That's the reality of manufacturing sometimes. You do what you have to do to get something done. Maybe two brackets for two different vehicles are now one bracket because they were close enough. Less variety means cost savings.

Balancing the front and rear sway bars isn't as easy as a car or SUV due to the fact that the rear can have a BIG difference in load. There is a much bigger delta in the rear load on a truck. You kind of have to compromise for that.

Look at a competitor's vehicle that has a sway bar from the factory and you'll see they don't use nearly as large a bar.

Adjustable end links (springs vs tubes) would help adjust issues with size. But even that has weaknesses. Using softer bushings or harder bushings is a means of adjustment also.

I guess I'm always tweaking to make things better so it's a bigger issue with me. Can't leave well enough alone.

There is always room for improvement.

Alan