Starter / Replacement Contacts [Archive] - Toyota Tundra Forums : Tundra Solutions Forum

: Starter / Replacement Contacts



tamu_tundra
10-17-2004, 11:31 PM
Need some help...

V8-2wd 2001 Tundra 84k-miles... and have what I believe is a starter problem. Symptoms are solenoid clicking with each turned key and then finally a startup after 4-5 tries. I've checked the battery and have cleaned all battery terminals.

I've searched through all the other threads, and it looks like most people have narrowed this down to the starter contacts. I want to go to the dealer and ask for these contacts, but I don't really know what I should be asking for. Is it the contact internally between the solenoid and the starter? In other words, would I need to take apart the starter and replace these contacts? If so, how many are there?

Or is it the battery contact on the outside of the starter? It seems that if the solenoid is clicking then this contact would be okay? I'm just guessing...

Also, from reading the other threads it seems you have to take off the air intake manifold. I'm assuming this is just the air-filter and surrounding box? Or it is a lot more involved than this?

Any help is much appreciated. I'm getting tired of playing starter-roulette every morning before going to work...

mustang67408
10-17-2004, 11:55 PM
Need some help...

V8-2wd 2001 Tundra 84k-miles... and have what I believe is a starter problem. Symptoms are solenoid clicking with each turned key and then finally a startup after 4-5 tries. I've checked the battery and have cleaned all battery terminals.Sounds like the starter
I've searched through all the other threads, and it looks like most people have narrowed this down to the starter contacts. I want to go to the dealer and ask for these contacts, but I don't really know what I should be asking for. Is it the contact internally between the solenoid and the starter? YES In other words, would I need to take apart the starter and replace these contacts?YES If so, how many are there?2 of them, and you have to clean the armature for the windings.
Or is it the battery contact on the outside of the starter? NOT likely It seems that if the solenoid is clicking then this contact would be okay? I'm just guessing...Nope it is an internal starter contact failure.
Also, from reading the other threads it seems you have to take off the air intake manifold. I'm assuming this is just the air-filter and surrounding box? Or it is a lot more involved than this? It is the Air filter/a/f hose/ intake manifold, along with the injectors and rails, fuel line, return line, emmision hoses. it can be done as a unit with 2 people. It is quite heavy to lift out of the truck.I would also suggest replacing the intake manifold gaskets while your in there.
Any help is much appreciated. I'm getting tired of playing starter-roulette every morning before going to work...
Hope this helps

Eddie
10-18-2004, 03:54 PM
I've done several Lexus LX470 starter replacements. They use the same engine so the following tips can be applied:

Like Victor said,most of the parts can be removed as a single unit. The throttle body,fuel injectors/rails,and upper plenum stay together. All you need to unbolt are the lower manifold nuts (ones that go into the head).

When removing the intake manifold nuts,shove some kind of sticky stuff in the socket (I use butyl rubber sealer). You do not want to drop those nuts when reinstalling them.

Be prepared to spill coolant,there are coolant lines going into the throttle body that have to be disconnected. Clamping the hoses with needlenose visegrips help reduce the mess.

Open the gas cap to relieve some fuel pressure. Have rags handy when loosening up the fuel connections at the rails. Smoking during this stage of the job is a bad idea :p

Ratcheting box-end wrenches make removal of the actual starter bolts easier. 14mm size.

You will probably have to sit/lie in the engine bay to get most of this work done. Have something comfy to sit on,you'll be there for a while.

mustang67408
10-18-2004, 04:30 PM
I've done several Lexus LX470 starter replacements. They use the same engine so the following tips can be applied:

Like Victor said,most of the parts can be removed as a single unit. The throttle body,fuel injectors/rails,and upper plenum stay together. All you need to unbolt are the lower manifold nuts (ones that go into the head).

When removing the intake manifold nuts,shove some kind of sticky stuff in the socket (I use butyl rubber sealer). You do not want to drop those nuts when reinstalling them.

Be prepared to spill coolant,there are coolant lines going into the throttle body that have to be disconnected. Clamping the hoses with needlenose visegrips help reduce the mess. You dont have to remove these lines , just lay the throttlebody off to the side, once you remove the 4 nuts.
Open the gas cap to relieve some fuel pressure. Have rags handy when loosening up the fuel connections at the rails. Smoking during this stage of the job is a bad idea :p

Ratcheting box-end wrenches make removal of the actual starter bolts easier. 14mm size.

You will probably have to sit/lie in the engine bay to get most of this work done. Have something comfy to sit on,you'll be there for a while.
Excellent advise

tamu_tundra
10-18-2004, 06:05 PM
Thanks Eddie and Victor- definitely helps get me prepared for this. I've replaced a starter on Chevy before, but it was nothing like this!

Victor, you mention to clean the armature for the windings. What do you typically use and do to clean them? Any trick to opening up the starter?

-Kent

Eddie
10-18-2004, 06:31 PM
You dont have to remove these lines , just lay the throttlebody off to the side, once you remove the 4 nuts.

Damn,now you tell me :p Next LX470 I'll do that.

mustang67408
10-18-2004, 07:05 PM
Once the starter is out, you only have to remove the rear plate. 3 - 8mm bolts. The contacts unbolt with a 12mm wrench. Do 1 side at a time.
The armature winding you will have to remove to get to the contacts, has a ring on it, it will be black and burnt looking. Just use some fine sanding paper to scuff it nice and shiny again, go easy on it and dont take off to much copper, just enough to get it clean not spotless.
Let us know how it turns out
Eddie and i will keep our ears open.
Good luck

tamu_tundra
10-18-2004, 07:26 PM
Parts are coming in on Thurs (btw, $8 each for the 2 contacts and then ~$30 each for the 2 gaskets), so I probably won't get a chance to tackle this until Sat.

I'll keep yall (yes, I'm Texan!) posted... thanks again.

tamu_tundra
10-23-2004, 08:30 PM
Just wanted to thank yall again for the help. Everything went smoothly and replacing the contacts seemed to solve the problem.

I still can't believe the starter was actually under there...

mustang67408
10-23-2004, 08:35 PM
:tu: :tu: :tu:
Have a cold 1 (or 2 ) for us.
WHOOOOOO AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Verndog
10-23-2004, 08:49 PM
Just wanted to thank yall again for the help. Everything went smoothly and replacing the contacts seemed to solve the problem.

I still can't believe the starter was actually under there...

My hat is off to you! Good job...and you have a heck of a lot more patients then I...I would have footed the $900.00 bill and saved the cuss words for the California drivers. :devil: :D

Kevin

leadsled
10-28-2004, 02:55 PM
My Tundra may have the same problem, however, when I hit the key...there is no "click" noise....just silence. When I let off and try again it fires right up.

As of today, it seems to be working fine. I hate these intermittent problems. They are sometimes difficult to pin down.

Could you please post the part numbers on the invoice, so when I go into the dealership I have some idea what to tell the parts guy. I will also have some way of checking the part numbers before the order is placed.

Thanks.

leadsled

tamu_tundra
10-28-2004, 07:16 PM
No problem:

Intake Manifold Gaskets (PN 1717150020)
QTY-2 @ $30 each (both sides identical)

Solenoid Contacts (PNs 2822650070 & 2822650080)
QTY-2 @ $8.43 each (different kit for each side)

There are two sizes of alternators used in the V8s (1.4kW & 2.0kW), but I believe the starter contacts are the same for both.

Also, there is another gasket you come across when you remove the solenoid end cover. I didn't bother replacing this as looked pretty good and seemed to just serve as a debris barrier.

I'm by no means an expert, but just to make sure things are clear... My starter was only clicking once (the solenoid hitting the armature contact)- not clicking repeatedly (like when you have a low battery).

If it's not making any noise, then maybe power just isn't getting to your solenoid? You've probably done this already, but it might be worth while to make sure you have a good connection at your battery...

Let me know if you need anything else...

akauth
10-28-2004, 11:14 PM
I was having the same issue. I replace the starter with a new one. Same issue after a while. Finally, this summer I replaced the starter relay in the fusebox and it happened one more time and that's been it for the problem for me.

Usually it would happen about once a month or so. Seems to be gone for me. Hasn't happened in a while.

Alan




My Tundra may have the same problem, however, when I hit the key...there is no "click" noise....just silence. When I let off and try again it fires right up.

As of today, it seems to be working fine. I hate these intermittent problems. They are sometimes difficult to pin down.

Could you please post the part numbers on the invoice, so when I go into the dealership I have some idea what to tell the parts guy. I will also have some way of checking the part numbers before the order is placed.

Thanks.

leadsled

PagalDesi4Life
11-12-2004, 01:30 PM
I might have a similar problem. On a level of 1-10 (10 being the most difficult), what would you grade this whole "operation" for someone who has a good amount of knowledge in mechanics?

tamu_tundra
11-12-2004, 09:14 PM
I might have a similar problem. On a level of 1-10 (10 being the most difficult), what would you grade this whole "operation" for someone who has a good amount of knowledge in mechanics?

I'd give it about a 6. Thanks to this BB, you know what to do. Its mainly just time consuming. Just make sure you note how everything is hooked up before taking it apart. If I had to do it again, I'd probably take a digital pic of the connections. I had a buddy of mine helping, and we both assembled the same side we took apart. Seemed to work pretty well. It also helped having an extra hand to lift the intake assembly out...

PagalDesi4Life
11-13-2004, 12:05 AM
I'd give it about a 6. Thanks to this BB, you know what to do. Its mainly just time consuming. Just make sure you note how everything is hooked up before taking it apart. If I had to do it again, I'd probably take a digital pic of the connections. I had a buddy of mine helping, and we both assembled the same side we took apart. Seemed to work pretty well. It also helped having an extra hand to lift the intake assembly out...

How long did it take you? I am hoping I will have my friend help me work on this, he knows a wealth about mechanics. Is there a step by step instruction on this BB on how to do it?

tamu_tundra
11-13-2004, 07:22 PM
How long did it take you? I am hoping I will have my friend help me work on this, he knows a wealth about mechanics. Is there a step by step instruction on this BB on how to do it?

It took us about 4-hours from start to finish. I enjoy doing stuff like this, but don't consider myself very experienced by any means... So I would imagine you can probably do it quicker. I basically followed Victor and Eddie's posts off this thread for the instructions. Disconnect the lines going to the throttle body, fuel rails, and upper plenum assembly, unbolt the 10-12 bolts going into the head, pull out the assembly, remove the (tiny) starter/solenoid, repair the solonoid as posted, and put everything back together.

leadsled
12-08-2004, 08:48 AM
Thank you all for the information. I'm ordering the parts and doing this soon.

My Tundra seems to have the intermittent start problem more and more these days. It will click 3 or 4 times....then start up like there was no problem.

A special thanks to tamu tundra for posting the part numbers, and mustang67408 and eddie for the detailed instructions!

leadsled

akauth
12-08-2004, 03:29 PM
Before you go to all that trouble you might want to replace the relay first. I had the same issue. I actually even replaced the starter, but the problem came back. Once I replace the relay, I had it happen one time after that and it's not happened since. And that was sometime this summer I finally swapped it out. It's about $50 and 10 minutes of work. It's probably a LOT less if you can find the relay at other than Toyota.

But it's solved my problem and I had exactly the same issue. It was getting worse and worse. I even swapped the battery out - but I'm glad I did that anyway.

My system works like a champ now and I didn't have to resort to the contact change. I think what happens is that the relay is too weak to have the contacts connect properly and eventually they become a problem. But if you fix the relay, then the contacts don't matter so much as they hit solidly now.

Mine use to happen mostly when it was hot and off for 10 minutes and restarting. Or when it was cold in the morning. Now it never happens. And I'm glad because it was getting me mad since it was happening since 6,000 miles!

Alan






Thank you all for the information. I'm ordering the parts and doing this soon.

My Tundra seems to have the intermittent start problem more and more these days. It will click 3 or 4 times....then start up like there was no problem.

A special thanks to tamu tundra for posting the part numbers, and mustang67408 and eddie for the detailed instructions!

leadsled

leadsled
12-08-2004, 10:45 PM
Thanks akauth,

I will definitely change the relay first, then if that doesn't fix it, I will change the contacts.

leadsled

leadsled
12-21-2004, 02:02 PM
tamu tundra,

What was the difference in the two different part numbers for the contacts. I'm looking at the parts in the two bags and they appear to be identical.

I just want to make sure I get the correct parts on the correct side of the starter.

By the way, my starter is part of the "Cold Weather Package", so the part numbers for the contacts are different than yours: 28226-72010, 28226-74070.

leadsled

akauth
12-21-2004, 04:39 PM
I'm really surprised that replacing the relay didn't solve your issue. I've got the same starter and after I replaced the relay it's been fine. Even through this cold weather when it always used to occur in the mornings.

I did have the issue happen one time right after I replaced the relay (at about the normal interval of every couple, three weeks) but after that time it hasn't happened and it's going on six months now.

I think the issue is that the relay isn't strong enough for some reason and the contacts don't touch like they should. After a while they might get some buildup which then interfers. But a good solid contact fixed the issue for me. I figured either it was relay in the system or the switch, but a relay would be my first guess. If it was 150,000 miles later I would have thought it was a hard contact issue somewhere. That's when starters are usually toast.


Alan





tamu tundra,

What was the difference in the two different part numbers for the contacts. I'm looking at the parts in the two bags and they appear to be identical.

I just want to make sure I get the correct parts on the correct side of the starter.

By the way, my starter is part of the "Cold Weather Package", so the part numbers for the contacts are different than yours: 28226-72010, 28226-74070.

leadsled

leadsled
12-21-2004, 05:31 PM
akauth,

Yes, I too was hoping that it was just the relay. Oh well, I guess I know what I'll be doing over Christmas Holiday.

leadsled

akauth
12-21-2004, 06:38 PM
akauth,

Yes, I too was hoping that it was just the relay. Oh well, I guess I know what I'll be doing over Christmas Holiday.

leadsled

Be sure to take lots of digital pictures along the way. I'm sure that it easier for anyone else doing it. Too, sooner or later people are going to have to replace the starters and it would nice to have that documented before it starts happening in a major way since it's such a headache.

alan

leadsled
01-03-2005, 12:42 AM
akauth,

Well, the new contacts are in. I also changed the starter relay.

The truck starts just fine now. I didn't take a lot of pictures, but the few I did take will be posted soon.

This job is fairly straight forward, but it was a real pain getting the two bolts that hold the starter in. Just no room in there for my hands!

leadsled

ekunst
01-05-2005, 11:55 AM
the work in general is not that hard if you are experienced at mechanicial repairs and have a good torque wrench. there is more adversity involved in this job because after you have removed the intake plenums and runners you have to lay on top of the fender/engine bay to be able to reach the starter bolts and wire harness securing bolt. the starte bolts are accessed on the firewall side of the engine and are not the easiest to work with. patience is the main key here...and good luck!

DevinSixtySeven
10-16-2006, 10:43 AM
thread resurrection...this had the best tech advice of the threads i looked at.

this morning, first time ever, roughly 130K miles, got the massive CLICK sound when i turned the key.

battery has plenty of juice, contacts are clean, everything is :tu: except no turnover just a CLICK. it's not the pop-pop-pop-pop sound like when the battery is low or whatever, and i assume the CLICK is the relay engaging.

it did start after a couple turns of the key, first it did about a quarter turnover, sounded like a huge GRUNT, then stopped. next round it started like normal.

does this sound like the same problem? if so, i will do the same procedure outlined by eddie and mustang. if thats the case, where's the best place to disconnect the fuel line from the intake plenum group?

and also it sounds like i disco the t/b from the plenum and leave it in the bay, but remove the plenum/rails/etc...correct?

what sort of sealant/gasket maker stuff goes between the plenum and block, if any? just the factory gasket?

thanks much :D

-sean

mustang67408
10-16-2006, 03:15 PM
thread resurrection...this had the best tech advice of the threads i looked at.

this morning, first time ever, roughly 130K miles, got the massive CLICK sound when i turned the key.

battery has plenty of juice, contacts are clean, everything is :tu: except no turnover just a CLICK. it's not the pop-pop-pop-pop sound like when the battery is low or whatever, and i assume the CLICK is the relay engaging.

it did start after a couple turns of the key, first it did about a quarter turnover, sounded like a huge GRUNT, then stopped. next round it started like normal.

does this sound like the same problem?YES if so, i will do the same procedure outlined by eddie and mustang. if thats the case, where's the best place to disconnect the fuel line from the intake plenum group? Drivers side at the back of the plenum is where the fuel line attaches, its a 22mm wrench

and also it sounds like i disco the t/b from the plenum and leave it in the bay, but remove the plenum/rails/etc...correct?Yes unbolt the TB,but leave the water hoses connected to it. The injector rails can stay bolted on too, just remove the 6 bolts and 4 nuts that hold the manifold down to the heads. There are 2 6mm bolts that hold the wire harness down back by the firewall , they need to come out too. Once all the hoses and stuff are out of the way the manifold assy can be lifted straight out and the starter is below it. MAKE SURE TE BATTERY IS DISCONNECTED FIRST.

what sort of sealant/gasket maker stuff goes between the plenum and block, if any? just the factory gasket? Just the factory gasket, no sealer needed.

thanks much :D

-sean
Hope this helps

DevinSixtySeven
10-16-2006, 03:43 PM
would it help if i pulled the fuel pump fuse, let the engine die, then disconnected the fuel line? so as to reduce pressure in the line when i disconnect that 22mm nut?

mustang67408
10-16-2006, 03:47 PM
would it help if i pulled the fuel pump fuse, let the engine die, then disconnected the fuel line? so as to reduce pressure in the line when i disconnect that 22mm nut?
That's a good idea :tu:
I just place a rag around it a crack it open slowly. Let the rag absorb the fuel.

DevinSixtySeven
10-16-2006, 05:40 PM
carson had a great deal on the parts, i'm going to swap in a complete new starter since this one has 130K on it...i figure it'll last another 130K or so :D. that way im not spending gaskets*2+starter+4 hours*2 (never done it before) if the solenoid is also going bad. it's been well-loved, held up a long time.

30 dollar core charge, i send back the old starter, they refund the core charge. the 2000 starters are reman'd units now.

-sean

Kdog
10-17-2006, 10:51 AM
Any recommendations on Starters? I've found several on-line. Can anyone provide a link. I don't want to pay the "stealer" $450 for a starter.
2001 v8 4wd access cab.

Denso (is this OEM)

Bosch

Thanks!



I'm having the same problem. Dealer wants $913 to fix.

mustang67408
10-17-2006, 11:13 AM
Any recommendations on Starters? I've found several on-line. Can anyone provide a link. I don't want to pay the "stealer" $450 for a starter.
2001 v8 4wd access cab.

Denso (is this OEM)

Bosch

Thanks!



I'm having the same problem. Dealer wants $913 to fix.
DENSO ONLY!!!!!

Dont put a German starter in a JAPANESE/AMerican truck, you'll be sorry


$913 is a rip off

ALLDATA is what we use for labor rates
It pays 4.0hr labor x ($95 per/hr) = $360 + starter ($ 205 (approx) Toyota reman)= $565 + tax
Find another dealer or do it yourself.

Kdog
10-17-2006, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the helpful info!!! Working the "stealer" now on labor price... This forum rocks!!!!!

DevinSixtySeven
10-18-2006, 12:50 PM
if you have some hand tools and patience, consider the DIY route.

also, talk to carson toyota (forum sponsor) about a starter. 192 + refundable core charge got me a remanufactured oem high output unit. the gaskets were really cheap, too. even if you dont do it yourself, youll be saving almost 100 bucks getting the parts through carson. tell 'em tundrasolutions sent you.

-sean

Kdog
10-24-2006, 10:34 AM
:sleep:

mustang67408
10-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Any concerns that the starter in my truck is a 1.4 amp and I am replacing it with a factory refurb 2.0 amp unit?
No concern
The 2.0 amp is for COLD REGIONS to give it that extra UMPHH whent he engine is very cold.

It cant hurt in NON COLD REGION. It actually may help, by turning the engine easier.
I say go for it we do it all the time. LV is designated as a Cold Region, so we install Cold Spec starters in whatever vehicle is here and needs it.

Wellcraft19
10-26-2006, 02:36 AM
Appreciate all the info in this thread. My 1999 LandCrusier has had the "intermittent" starter issue for a while (over a year...). This past monday, it would just not turn over (truck's in the garage). Most times before, with some patience, it would turn after a little bit of waiting and X more attempts. Not this time...

So today I cleaned all accessible contacts, cleaned (already pristine) battery posts, pulled relays and put them back. Tried, waited, no difference.
Turn the key to "ign", usual "whizz and burr" of the electronics, turn to "start", hear the solenoid click, battery voltage drops to about 11.25V (from fully charged 12.65V), but no cranking. Assuming like many others it is the contacts in the starter (corroded or dirty soleneoid contacts or the brushes in the starter motor, or both). Battery voltage drop seem to indicate that the solenoid is at least actually energized...

But, just before I left the garage to go up for a bite to eat and sleep, I tried again. Starter ran for about two seconds, than back to nothing. Tried a few times more, and upon the fourth or fifth try, engine turned over and started (right away).

But, I am ready to pull the intake manifold, pull the starter, to get this solved once and for all.

As for the location of the starter, it is a PITA when it actually breaks, but it is well protected, sits high up (less issues when fording a creek) and it is in an area that otherwise likely would not be used at all. All in all, not a bad location, but...

If anyone has any final words/advice before I attack this, please post. Thanks to everyone's great advice in this thread up until now.

BTW, anyone that has listed the exact test sequence the ECU goes through when you turn key to "ign"? Would be fun to know what the "whizz and burr" is coming from (I had it pretty well documented in my old Nissan 300 ZXTT).

/// Per-Ola

DevinSixtySeven
10-26-2006, 05:59 PM
only the advice ive heard from a few people now, dont separate the upper and lower intake manifold, just take the whole thing off from the lower bolts.

mustang67408
10-26-2006, 06:01 PM
only the advice ive heard from a few people now, dont separate the upper and lower intake manifold, just take the whole thing off from the lower bolts.
Exactly:tu: . Leave injectors in place too.

mitey_whitey
10-26-2006, 09:17 PM
1) did anyone ever post any pics?
2) Does techinfo.toyota.com download of the manual go into the details necessary to finalize this with pics......??

mustang67408
10-26-2006, 11:11 PM
1) did anyone ever post any pics?
2) Does techinfo.toyota.com download of the manual go into the details necessary to finalize this with pics......??
No pics that i know of.

The TIS techinfo tells you to do alot more steps than necessary, like draining coolant and stuff. You dont need to do 1/2 the stuff it calls for.
It has pics of certain things and the step by step procedure jumps around from area to area, to many links and PDF's to post or I would.

Basically

1. remove battery cable
2. remove TB cover
3. Remove air intake hose and vac lines
4. remove other vac lines attached to intake
5. unplug all injectors and water temp sensor
6. unbolt TB and moveto side (you dont have to drain coolant)
7. remove fuel return line (if equipped)
8. remove fuel line (22mm wrench)
dont lose fuel line washer and make sure they go back on fitting
in the proper order.
9. remove 6- 12mm bolts and 4 nuts from intake manifold to cylinder head
10. unbolt wire harness at rear of both cylinder heads on top (6mm bolt)
11. lift out intake manifold/injector assy
12. remove 12mm bolt on wire harness to starter (at firewall)
13. remove the 2 - 14mm bolts holding the starter in (at firewall)
14. rotate starter and remove exciter wire and remove 12mm nut holding
battery wire to starter.
15. repeat in rev order to install new starter or replace starter contacts in old starter and re-install.

I have a zip file of pictures that will help guide you thru the starter contact replacement.

Hope this helps

mitey_whitey
10-27-2006, 09:50 AM
I did not see the zip file........ Keeping my fingers crossed right now...
fiddled with the starter relay yesterday.. I believe the relay is the same as the heater relay.... listened carefully with a stethescope as wife clicked to start and swapped them around..... 1 mis start immediately after but since then.... fire in the hole on every try.;)

mustang67408
10-27-2006, 09:56 AM
I did not see the zip file........ Keeping my fingers crossed right now...
fiddled with the starter relay yesterday.. I believe the relay is the same as the heater relay.... listened carefully with a stethescope as wife clicked to start and swapped them around..... 1 mis start immediately after but since then.... fire in the hole on every try.;)
I hope the relay works for you.:tu: Been down that road before:o . I changed a starter relay, Vehicle came back a month later and customer was pissed, she had to take more time off of work to leave vehicle for starter replacement. Wont do that again.

mitey_whitey
10-27-2006, 11:51 AM
I have been dowloading from techinfo.toyota.com all morning....
I found lots of great electrical stuff, but am still trying to find "THE MANUAL" that has pics and breakdowns like you posted with instructions.
Under the repair manual section there is some pretty simplistic DIY stuff, but not the shop stuff. Did I create the wrong kind of account in setup?:(

mustang67408
10-27-2006, 12:05 PM
I have been dowloading from techinfo.toyota.com all morning....
I found lots of great electrical stuff, but am still trying to find "THE MANUAL" that has pics and breakdowns like you posted with instructions.
Under the repair manual section there is some pretty simplistic DIY stuff, but not the shop stuff. Did I create the wrong kind of account in setup?:(
This is how I found the pics I posted and some of the instructions, most of them were from memory. I did a SEQUOIA starter yesterday (30min :devil: start to finish:D )
START HERE:
TIS
Vehicle: 2000 Tundra
REPAIR INFO: repair manual
Section :Starting (2UZ-fe)
Sub section : STARTER
CLICK "FIND"
THEN CLICK REMOVAL. In that PDF that pops up there are other links (SEE PG SF34) (see page EM34) for removing different components. It tells you to remove way to much stuff. I pick and choose what components to remove, there is no "MANUAL" or exact step by step, like what I posted.
They assume you have working knowledge of this entire vehicle and dont need a post of exact step by steps for all things.

I have TIS thru the DEALER at work and the same account at home. I dont know what accounts are avaliable to the general public.

mitey_whitey
10-27-2006, 12:59 PM
:ts: That helped a lot!

mitey_whitey
10-27-2006, 02:23 PM
Mustang....
Thanks for the good info. Congrats on destroying the clock on that starter job..... Their estimate seems to be 6-8 Hours.
Is their a typical torque pattern on the 10 bolts and nuts on the Intake manifold following your procedures. Also, do you only need 2 gaskets... Intake to head and TB to Intake?:ts:

mustang67408
10-27-2006, 02:44 PM
Mustang....
Thanks for the good info. Congrats on destroying the clock on that starter job..... Their estimate seems to be 6-8 Hours.
Is their a typical torque pattern on the 10 bolts and nuts on the Intake manifold following your procedures. Also, do you only need 2 gaskets... Intake to head and TB to Intake?:ts:
ALLDATA estimates 4 hrs, thats what we use as a guide line. Once you learn how to do it, you find shortcuts and things that do not have to be taken apart which saves more time.
Yes it was fast, I have only done....... (seems like a million):p :D

I start on the drivers side middle bolt and work in a clockwise circular pattern back and forth across the manifold.

(pass)
10 6 2 3 7
9 5 1 4 8
(driver)
front<-----


The TB to intake is usually fine and I dont change it.

I only change the other 2 as a precautionary measure and protection for the customer.
(I wont be changing them on my own truck) That descision is up to you.

Wellcraft19
10-27-2006, 07:25 PM
Parts for the LandCruiser ('99) as per one of my local Toyota dealers:

Intake manifold gaskets (x2): PN 1717150020 - $36.55/ea

Solenoid contacts:
1 ea PN 2822654412 - $9.98/ea
1 ea PN 2822672010 - $14.95/ea

The latter one is said to be common among many Toyota starters. The first one unique to the LC engine (really no idea why these numbers/parts are not the same as for the Tundra V8 as listed earlier in this post - anyone?).

A remanufactured starter from same dealer, $271.50 + $30 core charge

Starter relay, even though unlikerly to be the culprit in my case: $67.51/ea

mitey_whitey
10-27-2006, 10:26 PM
mustang,
You have been very helpful with explicit details for this job. I was able to download an overview diagram from techinfo that made sense when viewing the instructions from your earlier post. The one thing that concerns me is the variance in pricing on identical parts from the stealers. The 3 here seem to be charging about 6 hours labor + about $300 for the starter. The relay pricing is from $57 to $80 and the gaskets range from $24 ea to nearly $40 each. The only quote I received on the contacts was $40 for both. This thread may become a priceless link for anyone with starting issues because of the detailed info that Mustang, Ed and Devin shared. Thanks to all of you.:tu:

Wellcraft19
10-29-2006, 05:46 PM
Saw someone was looking for pictures. found some on another list:
Procedure for replacing 100 series(98 and up) starter contacts - IH8MUD.com Toyota Forum (http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=9117)

About half-way down the first page is a set from under the hood of a LC100. Surprised me it was rather dirty and even some rust. Guess spoiled here in the Pacific NorthWest with very little rust (not at all like the rust "horror" we had in southern Sweden where cars rust away thanks to all the salt on the roads, - northen Sweden, cars are as rust free as in Arizona).

I will do this job this week, no real rush except I WANT it done. Glad truck "stalled" in the garage. Fall has arrived and it's COLD outside.

Thanks to Mustang and others for providing great info on this. Will provide update (and possibly some pictures) when done.

/// Per-Ola

PRTaco
10-30-2006, 10:24 AM
This thread is awesome. I wanted to take a min and thank the previous posters that were such a help.

I have a 01 doublecab prerunner tacoma with the 3.4V6 and the contacts died on it yesterday. After reviewing the info here, not having a garage to perform the tear down plus not even being able to put really get to the starter, I elected to let a local dealership do my repair.

Anyways, I went prepared to spend all day. Suprisingly, labor was only 172 and both contacts (I looked up the part #s just to doublecheck them) was 30.82. Total price was 236.63.

After reading some of the quotes on here, I was pleasantly suprised.
Thanks again. This is probably one of the best posts on this forum, esp given the past history of Toyota's contact issues.

mustang67408
10-30-2006, 08:41 PM
This thread is awesome. I wanted to take a min and thank the previous posters that were such a help.

I have a 01 doublecab prerunner tacoma with the 3.4V6 and the contacts died on it yesterday. After reviewing the info here, not having a garage to perform the tear down plus not even being able to put really get to the starter, I elected to let Capitol Toyota in Chattanooga do my repair.

Anyways, I went prepared to spend all day. Suprisingly, labor was only 172 and both contacts (I looked up the part #s just to doublecheck them) was 30.82. Total price was 236.63.

After reading some of the quotes on here, I was pleasantly suprised.
Thanks again. This is probably one of the best posts on this forum, esp given the past history of Toyota's contact issues.
That labor is a bit high. ALLDATA only shows (.7 hrs labor, We charge 1.0hrs) on a V-6 Tacoma.
Glad it is fixed and your happy. that is what matters.:tu: :D

PRTaco
10-30-2006, 10:24 PM
Yeah well now I get to trace down an electrical problem that I just found out about. Somehow while it was at the dealership, I lost my 12volt constant that powers my PIAA offroad lights and remote starter. All the instruments light up normally and the cig lighters have fire.

What joy. This sucks.

mitey_whitey
11-04-2006, 10:44 AM
10 6 2 3 7
9 5 1 4 8

Mustang.... in the process of pulling it today, but even from techinfo, I can't seem to locate the torque specs on the intake and TB. Any help will be appreciated from anyone...

mustang67408
11-04-2006, 11:03 AM
10 6 2 3 7
9 5 1 4 8

Mustang.... in the process of pulling it today, but even from techinfo, I can't seem to locate the torque specs on the intake and TB. Any help will be appreciated from anyone...
13 ft/lbs for both the TB to intake and intake to cylinder head

Wellcraft19
11-04-2006, 03:49 PM
Dan (mitey_whitey),
Well, that makes two of us working today. In the disassembly phase as we speak. Just went on-line to see if anything new had come up. It had. Thanks Mustang for the torque values.

Got a call from Toyota this morning that the starter contacts had arrived, so I figured out I'd better get this over with. No use having the car in the garage, not running...

/// Per-Ola

Wellcraft19
11-05-2006, 12:55 AM
Late Saturday afternoon.
Starter is out. Was not too bad, but I have nimble (small hands) that worked fairly well, even on the driver side bolt on the starter. I will post some photos and other observations when work is completed.

A few observations along the way (LC100, '99):
Really dirty and oily in the intake channels above the valves in the head. Normal? Car has about 80K+ miles and no oil consumption. Intake plenum and runners fairly clean an inch or so up into the plenum, so I'd say it is just residue from leakage past the valves during a normal combustion cycle (!?).

Starter was much smaller than anticipated. Worked on other cars with smaller engines (and boat engines) but starter has at least been 150%-200% larger.
Article number on starter:
28100-50070
22800-7392
Manufacturing period: 08T26

Anyone know if this is the "small" or large" starter?

Starter contacts were dusty and pitted. Can see that they are worn down. So is the contact surface on the plunger, but to a lesser extent. Did polish that area with a dremel, and can see it is pitted, but will likely work for another 80K miles or so. Anyone replaced the plunger as well?

The outgoing axel (the one with toothed weel) from the starter has some radial "play". I could see this as perfectly normal, but what have you guys seen? Is the outgoing axel perfectly "firm" or have you observed some "play"?

Anyone replaced the brushes on the starter as well? I will take apart and inspect them when I'm at it. Any (known) precautions for this starter?

I am considering replacing the starter, but will see what prices I can get. For $300+, I'll just do the contacts this time.

Initial obeservation was that the way this V8 engine is designed, it looks like water could form a nice "pool" in between the two cylinder banks. Water, about an inch or so deep, once there has nowhere to go, but to evaporate when the engine gets hot. At least that's what mine loooked like (I have water marks from a "pool"). Turns out some previous owner has pressure washed the engine bay and the insulation sprayed away has ended up and blocked the drainage holes under the starter.

Starter also had two small "snorkels". One is a bit loose and does not seal at its base, the other one "perfect".

Feel free to provide comments, suggestions, etc, to the above. All ears are open before it gets put back together again.

/// Per-Ola

mustang67408
11-05-2006, 01:05 AM
does this help

Wellcraft19
11-05-2006, 09:51 PM
Mustang,

Thanks for the pics. Wow, mine looks almost pristine compared to that one (but the contacts are really worn and dusty). Will take some more pictures tomorrow and post a "gallery".
Think you convinced me to only replace the contacts.

Mitey_Whitey, how did you do?

Wellcraft19
11-08-2006, 04:44 PM
A few pictures and comments after taking out and fixing starter. To put in truck later today. More in next post:

Wellcraft19
11-08-2006, 04:55 PM
When removing starter, careful not to break the snorkels (I broke the mount for one of them). According to dealer, part only available from Japan...

When installing new contacts, make sure they are LEVEL so you'll get the largest possible contact area towards the plunger. It is easy when you tighten the nuts holding the new contacts (as well as when attaching external lugs) to overtighten so you end up with slightly "slanted" contacts.
Check before you put the lid on so you know how much you can/should "wiggle" assembly back in order for it to be "level", and hence provide for largest possible/best contact area .

As you can see from pictures, new contact on one side is slightly narrower than original (this being on a 2kW starter).

Bench test starter before you put it all together. Needless to say, make sure it is properly mounted in vise or other device.

DevinSixtySeven
11-11-2006, 12:36 PM
pulling everything apart now.

99-02 throttle body gasket is about 22 bucks "retail" from the dealership, undoubtedly cheaper from carson. the design is updated from the two-hole 00 design i have, but it's specd for the same model years. two of the three holes are the same so it shouldnt matter.

i wound up getting a new one because the rubber does "clamp" over time, and in my case it looked like it may have allowed a small vacuum leak and possibly crud entering the engine--there was a bit of fluid (i assume condensed oil vapor from the connection to the head on top of the t/b) that seemed to be passing across the gasket.

another observation...i havent cleaned the t/b in at least 30-40K, normally it's every other oil change (10k) or every change (5k) if you're anal. while there was gunk in the t/b, it was minimal, and mainly behind the butterfly--very, very little in front of the plate. i am running a true flow filter, and previously a k&n...with the k&n, i would find a filthy throttle body at 10k, and the sort of dirt i found this time at 30k with the true flow would be about how the t/b would look at 5k with the k&n.

more later, off to pick up the gasket...good thing they had one in stock :D...and a 22mm wrench.

-sean

Wellcraft19
11-11-2006, 03:45 PM
I'm done with my work and LC started on first attempt. Running as it always have...

A few observations/comments after having done this job over the past week (no, I was not in a rush, worked when I felt like it).

Thanks to the wisdom here and on other lists, this was a fairly simple job, even though the left starter bolt was a bit hard to get to.

Only tools needed:
Ratchet handles: 1/4", 3/8"
Sockets: 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 14mm
Short and long extension 3/8"
Fixed wrenches: 10mm, 12mm, 14mm
A long flexible (snakelike) rod with a strong magnet at the end
A few screw drivers, pliers, etc

There are four hoses that connect to the airbox, not three as some has mentioned (at least for the LC100).

I stuffed a pillow into the airfilter box and it made for a fairly comfortable "seat" while in the engine bay.

Instead of removing the fuel line from the fuel rail (22 mm wrench), I disconnected at the fuel filter and easily snaked the line out (note to those who do disconnect the fuel line from the rail; NEVER re-use the copper washers, buy new ones).

Once intake manifold was on workbench, I did take it apart to clean it out. turns out there was a fair amount of engine oil "pooled" up in enclosed chambers. Also cleaned the intake runners to get all and any crud out of there.
Did buy a new gasket ($16) for between the two halves of the intake manifold (likely not needed, but did no want to open it up w/o one).

The pooling of oil is likely due to overfill during oil change (all too common dealers and other put in too much oil, just to be "safe").

Did reuse the gaskets between head and intake manifold. Clean these out and make sure there is no dirt hidden between the metal sheet and the plastic "filler". These gaskets can be put back the wrong way, but when you see the "angle of attack" of the holes, it is very evident how they go back on.

Did take a few pictures from behind flywheel to get a better feel for how it will look when you start feeeling around with hands. It helped a lot, since the left starter bolt is PITA to get to - but not impossible with the correct combo of tools (3/8 ratchet, 14 mm socket, short extension)

Careful when removing the starter so you do not damage the "snorkels". I did break (at least I think I did...) the plastic mount for one, with the result of it fitting way too loosely back on. Sealed up with silicone gasket sealer and it seem to hold up well. Luckily (?) it was the rearmost snorkel and that one can be inspected from above and actually be reached from behind with intake manifold and everything on, should it fall off and a new one be needed.

Putting the entire intake manifold back on is a bit tricky. At first, it seem not to be enough room between it and the vertical coolant pipe coming up from the left cylinder bank. It is tight, but eventually just slips in.
Make sure you have removed ALL electrical connectors (injectors and sensors) before you, or you might risk crushing/damaging them in the process.

Next time this job is to be done, it'll take shorter time but car will also see a new starter since the contacts on the "plunger" will burn out before the newly installed "exterior" ones.

A few new photos (added 12/01/06)

tjlafleur
11-11-2006, 04:44 PM
I might have a similar problem. On a level of 1-10 (10 being the most difficult), what would you grade this whole "operation" for someone who has a good amount of knowledge in mechanics?
As I'm preparing to tackle the same project on Monday, I'll let you know how it goes for me - for now, my own mechanic told me it shouldn't be too difficult - just time consuming...otherwise, I'm looking forward to tackling the installation of my "boosted Tundra" supercharger in the spring.

DevinSixtySeven
11-11-2006, 10:19 PM
getting the intake manifold off is actually pretty easy...just takes some time, and two people makes it easier. it looks at first lift like it'll interfere with the engine hoist hooks...it doesnt...just turn and wiggle, it comes right out.

now for the @!#$ part...

i removed two 14mm bolts from the firewall side of the block, that hold the starter to the block. also pulled the 12mm bolt holding the plastic box w/wires to the back of the starter.

i can "pop" the starter down a degree or so, but i can't rotate or otherwise dislodge it. is there a trick to this? how does this bloody thing come out?

also, what the guys said about being careful with the nuts on the ends of the intake manifold...as i was removing them, the socket didnt release the nut when i pulled up, it grabbed it for a moment...then dropped it...and now its...somewhere :(. probably sitting on top of the tranny or something, i will look once i get the @#!$ starter out.

the arb bumper sorta makes it easier...with the chrome hoop removed, it makes a good spot to kneel.

i also noticed i dont seem to have the connection to the driver side of the channel in the block...i see the hole, but theres no wire like shown in the fsm or in the pictures from the 'cruiser engine/starter. otherwise it looks the same. what's going on here?

more later...!@#$ starter...

-sean

*edit* here is a photo (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/37522/cat/500/ppuser/5505)

DevinSixtySeven
11-11-2006, 11:10 PM
never mind, got it out.

now why the hell would i have to use a crowbar to get the starter out? it's like it was jammed in the hole or something.

Here's (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=37523&nocache=1) what the whole mess looked like. The channel in the block looks like garbage, so do the exposed raw areas on the starter body (very few which can corrode there, fortunately). What seemed strange were the two holes molded in to the block which appear to be drainage for the channel. They look like they drain in to the flywheel (?) area. WTF? The flywheel (?) and starter gear are pretty rusty on the surface.

This (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/37524) is a picture of my "SST". For something that's supposed to be nuts 'n' bolts and a few press items, I find a crowbar unfortunately has a place in the toolbox. I could dislodge the starter by hand but needed the extra leverage to move it back away from the block and gear...it would not rotate as mentioned in the FSM and other instructions here. Anyone know why not? Also, the drain holes are easier to see in this pic.

That plastic wire guard is a pain in the as5. On my truck, there's a round section with an obnoxious flat clip that I had to pry open with a screwdriver--it's not a clip like the injectors or spark plug wiring. The round section is at the forward end. Once the round cover is off and out the way (I pried it all the way backwards), the open end of a 12mm wrench barely fits in there to loosen the nut. Once it's off, again with the prying to get the plastic junk away from the stud on the starter. !@#$ tupperware.

OK, off to install the new one...should be a lot easier than taking it all apart, I hope...first task is to find that nut! Hopefully it didn't fall down the drain holes :rolleyes:...

-Sean

*edit* The nut was lodged in between the headers, down near the collector :eek:. Never would've found it just by looking.

Wellcraft19
11-12-2006, 12:02 AM
Will add to my tools list (forgot) as essential:

A long flexible (snakelike) rod with a strong magnet at the end. Helped me immensly putting the bolts back in place w/o having them fall down. Think it was about $4 at Northen Hydraulic Supply in Dallas years ago.

Sean,
No idea why your starter did not come right out, but I guess that when you angled it upwards to pull it, the cog wheel likely got stuck in the tooth on the flywheel and the more you pulled, the further out you pulled the cog wheel. You just had bad luck with the angle, mine came right out.

If you are using a small (1/4") 12 mm socket and ratchet, you can easily tighten the nut inside the "tupperware" cover. Or, if you feel it is really tight, remove the wires that go to the knock sensors.

Even though the engie is essentially the same, it looks like there is a bit more room under the Tundra hood compared to the LandCruiser.

As for the channel (or "pool") between the cylinder banks, yours looked much worse than mine. I think it is semi essential to ensure that the drainage holes are kept open, and if you ever take another mudbath (rather, next time...) with the Tundra, flush out the area with clean water afterwards. Otherwise you'll get a lot of corrosion on the exposed cast iron, and worse, potentially some of the "crud" could find its way into the starter. Should not be a problem as long as the area drains OK though (and snorkels are intact...).

DevinSixtySeven
11-12-2006, 12:18 AM
Actually I strongly suspect it was living four years in the rust belt. On closer inspection, it wasn't the gears interfering at all...there was a ring of corrosion all the way around the mating surface between the starter and the block, not on the face but around the starter gear. I don't think any amount of cleaning would have prevented it, only living in a rust-free environment. Another four years and it might not have come out at all. I'll get a picture in a minute.

Just more de-ohio-fying of my truck :rolleyes:...I am never living in the rust belt again, and if I do, I'm buying a POS car to drive during the winter.

I've noticed a lot of these nuts and bolts don't seem to have a very high iron content. No rust either, on the nuts/bolts associated with the heads, manifold or starter. Some work with a magnetic finger, some don't.

-Sean

Wellcraft19
11-12-2006, 12:32 AM
Interesting you mention the nuts/bolts. My first impression was that these were alloy bolts (they are really lightweight) and hence prone to stripping. But when testing them with the magnet, I just thought I had dreamt it up. Turns out more noticed it.

The mating surfaces in mine looked good. No "extra" rust on the block side.

As for the rust belt, I agree. Winters are supposed to be winters (no salt needed) and summers, just that, summers.

Cannot remember the VIN history, but I think mine has spent all its years on the West Coast (cars do not rust here, compared to native Sweden).

/// Per-Ola

DevinSixtySeven
11-12-2006, 11:54 PM
yeah...iirc the nuts weren't magnetic, but the bolts were. i actually used the "magic finger" to place the bolts...it was easier than messing with tape or o-rings.

putting it all back together was actually a piece of cake. a 22mm crows foot and a 3/8" drive torque wrench work great for the fuel pulse damper nut. there wasnt a torque spec in the sfi, brake or starter sections of the fsm for the brake vacuum boost line at the back p-side of the intake manifold, so i used the spec for the fuel pulse damper minus a few pounds.

one person can move the manifold assembly around...at one point i was kneeling/standing with one foot on the block and one knee on the forward sheetmetal/radiator, pretty easy to wiggle the manifold back in place. it was actually harder with two people, getting it out.

i never had fuel spray, probably because it sat so long without being run...about three weeks...but normally to reduce fuel spray you can pull the fuel pump connection over the fuel tank. i actually did this when i changed the fuel filter but forgot...it's actually listed in the fsm. probably an easier way to cut the power, but anyway cut power to the fuel pump, let the engine die on its own, then break open the fuel line.

overall it seems like a time consuming, awkward task, but not difficult unless your starter is rusted in place, and then a few well-placed pokes with a crowbar will get the starter out.

truck runs great now, with the exception of having to recharge the dead battery...glad its an optima.

-sean

mustang67408
11-13-2006, 07:30 AM
putting it all back together was actually a piece of cake. a 22mm crows foot and a 3/8" drive torque wrench work great for the fuel pulse damper nut. there wasnt a torque spec in the sfi, .

Here's the torque spec for ya, for the pulsation damper.

DevinSixtySeven
11-13-2006, 10:05 AM
that's the torque spec i found and used for the vacuum connection :D...it's the vacuum connector line bolt i couldn't find anywhere. kinda odd, since you have to pull it to get the manifold out.

mustang67408
11-13-2006, 10:16 AM
that's the torque spec i found and used for the vacuum connection :D...it's the vacuum connector line bolt i couldn't find anywhere. kinda odd, since you have to pull it to get the manifold out.
Here is the pressure regulator torque spec, for the 2 6mm bolts.
But you dont have to remove it or any fuel rails or injectors:confused: , only the 22mm for the fuel damper on the drivers side, where the fuel line connects.
As long as you got it changed:tu: :D

DevinSixtySeven
11-14-2006, 02:27 PM
Here is the pressure regulator torque spec, for the 2 6mm bolts.
But you dont have to remove it or any fuel rails or injectors:confused: , only the 22mm for the fuel damper on the drivers side, where the fuel line connects.
As long as you got it changed:tu: :D

not that one either lol...the ring connector on the rear passenger side of the manifold, that links via air hose to the master cylinder. it was a 14mm gun and crossdrilled bolt.

mustang67408
11-14-2006, 03:01 PM
not that one either lol...the ring connector on the rear passenger side of the manifold, that links via air hose to the master cylinder. it was a 14mm gun and crossdrilled bolt.
:confused: gotta a pic of it :confused: I have no idea what your talking about.:D
NEVERMIND :p

I got it;)

The tube for the brake booster.:D ( no need to remove) LOL

There is no torque spec listed. "SNUG" would be good just like you did.

Wellcraft19
01-02-2007, 01:55 PM
Sorry, post I responded to seem to have disappeared... (trying to delete post but seem not to be possible)

ejsharp
03-02-2008, 06:06 PM
If you get a single click the problem is with the contact between the solinoid and the starter.
If you get multiple rapid clicks the problem is battery or dirty terminals.

Earl

Tundra2002-2WD
12-20-2008, 11:25 AM
Today's date: 12/20/2008


I have a 2002 Tundra (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#) 2WD access cab with only 36K miles. I am the 1st owner.

I started having problems with starting the vehicle (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#) about a year ago. It would click and not start and then eventually start after 2nd or 3rd try.

I went to the dealer and they said $800 to replace the starter with a toyota (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#) remanufactured starter. I called the Toyota Customer Experience Center in California (1-800-331-4331) to complain about the reliability (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#) of their Nippon Denso starter. They said no recalls or tech bulletins. I said BS.

The next day I get a call from the customer service mgr of the dealer (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#) I had visited. They said that the regional sales manager of Gulf States Toyota (Toyota distributor for 6 or so states) had agreed to cover 50% of the repair.

I got it fixed at the dealer 2 weeks ago and paid $275 for starter replacement. I had some coupons. I have 38.5K miles and starts like brand new truck (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/1gen-tundra/142723-starter-issue-2/#).


Regards.

Tundra2002-2WD
12-20-2008, 11:46 AM
Today's date: 12/20/2008


I have a 2002 Tundra 2WD V8 access cab with only 36K miles. I am the 1st owner.

I started having problems with starting the vehicle about a year ago. It would click and not start and then eventually start after 2nd or 3rd try.

I went to the dealer and they said $800 to replace the starter with a toyota remanufactured starter. I called the Toyota Customer Experience Center in California (1-800-331-4331) to complain about the reliability of their Nippon Denso starter. They said no recalls or tech bulletins. I said BS.

The next day I get a call from the customer service mgr of the dealer I had visited. They said that the regional sales manager of Gulf States Toyota (Toyota distributor for 6 or so states) had agreed to cover 50% of the repair.

I got it fixed at the dealer 2 weeks ago and paid $275 for starter replacement. I had some coupons. I have 38.5K miles and starts like brand new truck.


Regards.

ejsharp
12-20-2008, 06:06 PM
I suspect the dealership may be pulling the wool over your eyes. I don't think it was the starter... there is a likelihood that the problem was corroded battery terminals.

The regional manager story sounds highly suspicious. Like maybe they decided to settle for 1/2 the booty rather than you go elsewhere to find out the problem could be solved with a 5 minute terminal cleaning.

kathyricks
12-20-2008, 06:26 PM
The $10 copper contacts inside the starter SOLENOID wear out, but the Denso starter itself typically will last decades / hundreds of thousands of miles.

ejsharp
12-20-2008, 06:38 PM
True Kathy... the copper contacts do wear out in starters that have very high mileage... like maybe 210,000 miles. But the above starter only had like 33,000 miles on it. That starter is practically new. But 33.000 miles is enough to build up a considerable residue on the battery terminals... especially the positive terminal.

Terminals can build up a thin crust that looks just like dull lead... and electricity cannot pass through this crust. It must be cleaned off the terminal with a wire brush... same with the inside of the cable connector.

Tundra2002-2WD
12-20-2008, 07:21 PM
I thought that the 50% deal was suspicious...

The battery terminals were checked and were fine. New battery was installed 2 months ago.

The cheapest quote I got from a non-dealer mechanic was $425.

ejsharp
12-20-2008, 07:49 PM
Yes it does not sound quite right. There are other things... like a loose nut on the end of a cable, poor body ground for the negative cable.

Where does the nut for the starter end of the positive cable connect to the solenoid? Is it outside the manifold and behind the engine near the firewall? If so it may be readily accessible to be loosened or re-tightened yet out of sight from an unsuspecting observer.

rstundra
12-21-2008, 06:34 AM
I love this site. About 3 months ago I started having the problem and after checking the battery, cleaning the terminals, replacing all wire ends at the battery, replacing about 6" of the wire leading the starter at the battery end, replacing the starter relay I had to bite the bullet and replace the starter. I got the diagram from here and was able to get the parts from NAPA.

I did not have to open the coolant system. THere were no coolant lines to my intake manifold but the crossover tube and the wiring harness made getting to the starter bolts extremely difficult. 10 torn knuckles later I had the new starter bolted in. Unfortunatly, I unknowingly broke a wire to one of the knock sensors and did not realizethis until the entire engine was back together. 3 hours later, all was fixed and back together and no more click,click,click vroom.

I have a 2000 V8 sr5 with 87k miles. My biggest problem has been brakes and vibrations. I also have the mandatory exhaust leak that makes it sound like an old chevy.

ejsharp
12-21-2008, 08:48 AM
Why do some 2000 Tundra starters go for 200,000 miles or more while others only go for 38,000 miles before they develop the same problem (Worn copper contacts)?

My guess is that it has to do with where the trucks were assembled. Maybe different suppliers provided parts of unequal durability or strength. It could be because of variations of the alloy used for the copper contacts (hardness) or it could be the strength of the magnetic field that drives the solenoid's piston up against the copper contacts. Too strong of an electric field would cause the solenoid's piston to hit the copper contacts harder thus wearing them out sooner.

We should do a survey among 2000 Tundra owners and ask where their vehicles were manufactured. If we could prove that the failed starters all have parts from a unique supplier, then we would have a legitimate claim against the manufacturer of our trucks. Manufacturing location is coded within the VIN number of our trucks. (serial number).

Anybody game for the survey?

derone
12-29-2008, 12:06 PM
There were 2 different starters available if I'm not mistaken. Mine started the clickin' and after a month of doing nothing, it magically stopped. My dad's '02 wasn't so lucky, at 38k his didn't return to life. So, after looking at several Denso on-line parts places I found HD and standard solenoid contacts. I was told either ones will fit either starter...as long as it was a factory denso. I keep the contacts with me, along with the manifold gaskets should I get stuck on the road. Evenually, I'm sure I'll be replacing them. Dad opted for a new starter at $750 total price...I'll be in it for ~$80.00.

ejsharp
12-29-2008, 03:45 PM
I'm with you derone. I ordered and now have the gasket and contact set here and ready to go. Contact taped to gasket package so as not to get separated.

I only wish there was a way to store them in the cab. I could not find an appropriate storage space in truck so my clothes closet had to do for now. Will take package along on any extended trips.

Boy Scout motto: "Be Prepared"

HI_TUNDRA
01-23-2009, 06:07 PM
:redface: I'm almost embarassed to post this but I have to because I just feel so violated. I took my '02 2WD TRD to the dealer to get the starter replaced, because after reading on how tedious it was to do yourself esp. with limited knowledge/toolset and no place to disassemble the engine (I live in an apartment) I thought ok I know it's going to cost but,
1. I had the starter replaced 2 years ago so it shouldn't be that
2. If it is the starter it should be covered by a warranty or something
Long story short, I paid through the nose for that thinking, $950 to replace with a reman starter ($375) ($440) labor with the balance being gaskets, fluids, and taxes. The worst part was when I told the rep that it wasn't right that i have 2 starter failures in 3 years. His f(&*^n response was "well the're only built by humans" I couldn't believe it and now I'm fuming but I did choose to take it to the STEALER.... never again....

ejsharp
01-23-2009, 06:54 PM
A solution to your problem would be to get a girlfriend with a garage.

:)

Derek24
01-24-2009, 09:06 PM
Just order the contacts and gaskets at Toyota today and will be installing them myself. Thanks to all those that have posted instructions and tips I feel it will be a interesting project. My truck has been doing the clicking thing for about a year now and yeastarday was the last; just kept clicking, and i had to ride my bike all the way to work. Well after 9yrs and the only thing that has to be rplaced other than the timing belt, I'd say I'm very pleased. I'll let you all know how it goes.:tu:

TundraTony
05-09-2009, 09:55 AM
Anybody feel the need to replace the starter brushes (carbon blocks) while they had the starter out?

TundraTony
05-14-2009, 10:39 AM
Just pulled the contacts out and is clear why they wore out. One of them was not installed 'flat'. It was at an angle and had worn really badly. This is from the factory...the original install. It also wore the plunger ring contact down badly as well. So now it is back to the order desk to order the plunger.

Just FYI I am not happy with Toyota of Berkeley, in Berkeley CA. First they quoted me $306 for the starter and $225 for labor. When I took it in they said oh no, it will be at least $900 total. So I decided to do it myself.

When I ordered the contacts it took them two days to get them. When I picked them up they were the brushes not the contacts. So ordered again. Another two days. Now at least I have the right contacts!

jorgeh
05-31-2009, 09:57 PM
My starter began acting up at about 185K mi. But it didn't last long. After failing to start only a few times, I was forced to replace it. Now at 188K mi. I replaced the complete starter.
My reasoning:
1.- All the excellent advise in this forum helped do the job quickly and easily.
2.- After opening my starter, the contacts did not look that bad (in comparison to some of the pictures I've seen on this forum). So I suspected it could have been a combination of things.
3.- The dealer is REALLY far from my house. So I opted for an aftermarket unit. (Inspection of the seals made me decide not to replace them, so that saved me the trip to the stealer).
4.- Remanufactured Denso starter with a lifetime warranty.

Truck starts beautifully now. Hope being cheap/lazy doesn't come back to bite me in the @ss. But as I mentioned earlier, the job is not bad if you read this thread, so If I have to do it again. I'm ok with that.

Thanks to all the guys who provided valuable information, pictures and advise.

--Jorge.
'00 Tundra SR5
4.7L V8

alcotundra
06-10-2009, 05:03 PM
I just got a bill to replace my starter, 2000 tundra v8,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,$850.00. OMG.

Raiderfan0
06-30-2009, 05:10 PM
[QUOTE=tamu_tundra;270963]Need some help...

V8-2wd 2001 Tundra 84k-miles... and have what I believe is a starter problem. Symptoms are solenoid clicking with each turned key and then finally a startup after 4-5 tries. I've checked the battery and have cleaned all battery terminals.

I've searched through all the other threads, and it looks like most people have narrowed this down to the starter contacts. I want to go to the dealer and ask for these contacts, but I don't really know what I should be asking for. Is it the contact internally between the solenoid and the starter? In other words, would I need to take apart the starter and replace these contacts? If so, how many are there?

Or is it the battery contact on the outside of the starter? It seems that if the solenoid is clicking then this contact would be okay? I'm just guessing...

Also, from reading the other threads it seems you have to take off the air intake manifold. I'm assuming this is just the air-filter and surrounding box? Or it is a lot more involved than this?

Any help is much appreciated. I'm getting tired of playing starter-roulette every morning before going to work...

:)I had the same problem and cured it by changing out the "Starter Relay", it is located behind the battery in the Fuse and Relay box, price is approximately $28.00, much cheaper and easier than the starter, I hope this helps you.]

kerryman71
06-30-2009, 06:20 PM
God I hope my starter lasts forever!!

mike.elmes
07-31-2009, 11:34 AM
After reading nearly every post in this thread, I've not come across any supercharged tundras with this starter contact issue. Can anyone at a dealership estimate this job for me?
TRD SUPERCHARGED 2000 LTD from the cooler climes of northern Canada.

mustang67408
07-31-2009, 11:46 AM
There should be no difference, you have to remove the intake manifold and the S/C stays attached to it, you dont have to remove it. The labor should be the same.
We get 4.5 hrs labor (ALL DATA TIME) + either a starter or the contacts, the decision is up to the customer.

SVH
10-06-2009, 04:14 PM
My truck has been having a delayed start for the past 6 months or so. I turn the key and there is about a 1 second delay and then the starter kicks in. Well, it is starting to get a little cold here and the past two mornings it has taken me about 45 minutes to get this beast started (2000 Tundra AC 4x4 V8 135k miles). I turn the key and I hear the click, which I believe to be the relay. After about 50 trys it starts up. I am thinking that it is temperature related (in addition to being well worn). Perhaped the contacts have contracted like frightened turtles due to the cold? I cleaned the battery posts firstly, but that did not help the situation at all. So, tonight, I will pick up new contacts from the stealership and give the whole thing a go. I am planning on reusing the gaskets as I recall Mustang mentioning that is what he would do and he seems to be quite the expert. I will let you know how it turns out!

SVH
10-07-2009, 08:54 PM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/svhardesty/IMG_1989.jpgWell, I got it all apart tonight and got the starter out. At the stealership, they sold me generic copper contacts that they had in stock (the others were another day out). I paid $20...figuring it would save me 1 day. Well, I just pulled the old contacts out and they do not match. The ones I have will not fit, so I have to do the whole thing over again. Stoked. Another thing: does anyone have pics of their old contacts that were causing the problem? Mine do not look too far gone. The copper on the armature was not too bad either. I am starting to question my diagnosis...

mustang67408
10-12-2009, 02:08 PM
Those contacts are junk, they need to be shiny cooper looking. You diag sounds spot on.

SVH
10-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Thanks for the positive reinforcement Mustang! Well, the saga continues. Toyota ordered the wrong contacts because the parts guy was in such a hurry (there are 3 or 4 options apparently). My truck has been out of order for almost a week. This time I had them order every possible contact, so that should do the trick...I will post when it's all done god willing...

SVH
10-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Well, here I am...a week later. Been getting rides to work with friends and just having an awesome time without my truck. Finally get the right contacts from Toyota...had to wait out the storm last night and throw a tarp over my propped open hood. Now, finally, I think I am going to finish the project...tonight is the night! But no. I just tried bench testing the starter with the new contacts and nothing happens. How did I f*%k this up? It is possible that my battery is not happy...I am reading 12v off of it...but not sure if that is all that matters. The wife has the other car now...she'll be back in an hour or so. So I'll wait till she gets home. If her car can't light this starter up...then I am S.O.L. Tonight will likely be a late night. Wahh Waaaahhhhh....:confused:

SVH
10-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Well, I took the starter to Kragen yesterday to have them do a bench test. I think my battery may have gotten drained because I had a towel on top of the battery to act as padding for the intake manifold while it sat there...when it rained, some of the water got in there and soaked the towel. There are crazy looking yellow marks on the towel with a burn mark where it touched the contact. No big deal tho. Kragen tested my starter and it passed the test, though it was acting a little funny. The bench tester charges it for like 3 seconds, and for the first 1.5 seconds it was plunging and retracting in fast succession. The second half, it stayed plunged and looked good. I am hoping that this is just due to the contacts getting broken in...or getting leveled or something. I got almost everything back in last night...tonight I'll make the final connections and try to fire her up (may need a jump tho). Keep your fingers crossed! I know I am...

SVH
10-18-2009, 12:19 PM
It all worked out! I got it all together (minus one lost 12mm bolt that holds the wire harness to the starter (I decided that this will not cause any harm)) and she fired right up. No more pause between the turn of the key and the starter plunge...just instant starting power! Thanks for this forum and those that provided all of the necessary info!

ps...the CEL engine light came on the day I got it all back together...I was a little scared, hoping it didn't have to do with the intake...its a code P0135 which I have found is the front driver-side O2 sensor. The CEL light has come on a few times in the past, but before I could plug in the code reader, it would dissapear. I think that this is probably that phantom code.

Columbia,SC
11-03-2009, 09:18 PM
I did it,I did it, I did it! I have been scared and too poor to 'pay for it' but I got a starter yesterday for a early B day present and with all of the great help/pictures I found on here I DID IT! After a year of hitting the starter with a hammer and a 24" socket extention, did I mention I DID IT! I was scared to death looking at that starter buried under all of the 'stuff'! I was almost in tears beating the old one yesterday morning trying to get the kids to school. Mom and Dad called and asked me if I wanted a new printer for my puter and had already paid for it. I told them I need a new starter more than I want a printer. So I got a new starter for my B-day!
I called a buddy of mine (23 years Toyo cert. mech and he offered most of the same help I got here,, He told me he can do it in 1 1/2 hours. I did it in 2 1/2 hours! It would have been done faster but I had to make an extension with a magnent glued on a 3/8th's inch wood dowel rod (McGiver style) to retreve my 12mm (I think) socket from under the manifold. That extention came in very handy replacing those intake bolts as well!
My body is feeling the stretch and reaching I had to do but it is a great feeling knowing that it is replaced and everything is tip top once again! Thanks for the help, couldn't have done it without ya!
I took some pics but they are in the first stages, after I got into it I forgot about the camera. I did it alone and was in the zone~!
Sorry about the spelling here and there, I am better with a hammer and wrenches than I am with spelling! I should have had my 10 y/o proof read this post for me.
God Bless America and Tundra Solutions.
Columbia,SC
P.S. looking down in the heads, after 156,000 miles the valves and what I could see was pretty/real clean! I Love this truck!

Columbia,SC
11-03-2009, 09:24 PM
I forgot to mention that it is a 2000 TRD V-8 4.7 4WD

mitey_whitey
01-04-2010, 07:39 PM
2nd time around isnt the charm..... i replaced the first one in November 06, Truck wouldnt start Late Sat night after playing starter roulette for about a week.......reprinted Mustangs directions.. and must have missed a step......I couldnt get the main fuel line disconnected at the wheelwell, so I cut the line at the fuel rail..BIG MISTAKE......$60 for a new line from the stealer, and still have to get the fuel line disconnected at the wheel well on the drivers side....all else is fine....would suggest removing the drivers side fuel rail for any others attempting this before you lift the intake manifold out......my bad....agggggggghhh....

2000LtdKen
01-10-2010, 03:12 PM
I just took my starter out of my truck. I have the 2kw version. I have the new contacts from Toyota but noticed my plunger is worn about 1/2 way. I think I should replace that.
Also, The rubber gasket that seals the solenoid housing came off in pieces. Does anyone know if the dealer sells that item? What about a part number?

Thanks,

Ken

2000LtdKen
01-12-2010, 06:57 PM
Ordered the parts from the dealer today. Here are the part numbers and prices in case anyone else needs them.

28175 54380 gasket solenoid cover $8.03 ea

28235 54380 plunger $37.87 ea

Ken

2000LtdKen
01-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Got everything finished today. Starts and runs like a champ. I read through this forum and one of the posters suggested 8x8x16 cinder blocks to stand on. Probably was the most helpful thing I did.

I also purchased a 3/8 ratchet with a swivel head and dog leg handle at Harbor Freight for $6.00. Works really well on the starter mounting bolts when you have to lay on the engine and work between the firewall and engine block.

Ken

Myanmar_Shave
02-05-2010, 04:35 PM
Thanks for the advice. I used your tutorial to replace the starter in my wife's 2000 LC (~105K). Unfortunately I had to get it done today, so I bought a rebuilt ND starter with a lifetime warranty for $179, instead of waiting until tomorrow to get the replacement contacts. It went OK, but a couple of injector connectors broke on me, so I will try to hot glue or silicone them if they come loose. When I tried to start it, it cranked, but would not start. I jiggled wires, and double checked everything, but could see no reason for it not to start. I let it sit for an hour and tried again, and it started right up. I don't know why it did this, but I replaced the fuel filter at the same time, and maybe it had something to do with it. Next, I need to put a new filter in the transmission. After that, it is time to replace the timing belt, I guess.

M38A1
07-10-2010, 04:03 PM
first time poster here :D, ,,,, thanks to all the info in this thread YOU saved ME a bunch of money this month , THANK YOU I replaced the contacts in my 125k 2000 v8 tundra , I was alittle scared but man that was easy , had the manifold off in 35 min, r/r contacts,and install ,about 1 1/2hrs . and the manifold is not that heavy come-on guys,,,,,,,,,try a 455 Olds cast iron manifold ,,,THATS heavy.

moochttu
09-01-2010, 12:25 PM
I just changed the starter and starter relay on my 00 tundra (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/#) (220K miles) this weekend because I had the one click. After that is started right up. When I had the starter tested, it passed, but this test did not include testing the contacts. I rolled the dice and replaced the starter since I was in there. Last night, I got another click. Does anyone think it could be the alternator. I had the battery checked before I replaced the starter and cleaned the terminals. Thanks

ejsharp
09-01-2010, 12:45 PM
Did you change the correct relay? Double check. Also trace the negative battery cable to where it bolts to the engine and make sure the contact is not corroded. Electricity will not flow if there is a poor ground.

johntall72
01-28-2014, 11:18 PM
Thanks to all contributors of this thread- it was invaluable in diagnosing & replacing my starter (2000 AC V8 4WD-86.9k mi.)I thought I'd add my experience with this job so as to possibly help the next reader of this thread. Additionally, I also cleaned the minor bit of carbon out of my intake ports & the last few inches of the intake manifold near the heads using BG Carb & Choke, followed by BG Throttle Body & Intake aerosol spray. While seemingly a good idea, this made the otherwise perfectly reusable intake manifold-to-head gaskets non-reusable, as cleaning/disturbing the carbon which had built up on the thick (1/8"-3/16") middle layer of those gaskets, sandwiched (attached by tabs with rivets) between the outer metal layers, spread particles of carbon in-between the layers. A lot more carb & choke spray or time in a solvent tank might get 'em back, or might deteriorate that plasticky middle layer. I had ordered new Beck/Arnley gaskets from RockAuto- $33.xx for an upper & lower kit (didn't need or use the uppers), so I used them. I also replaced the fuel injector o-rings & grommets, as some intake port-side grommets were visibly deteriorated, & I remembered smelling fuel a few times under the hood last summer. Cracking the fuel supply & return lines near the driver's side fender well on the frame rail worked well (14 & 19 mm wrenches), & seems to be the intended disconnection point. I also vacuumed the sandbox out of the vee between cylinder banks, where I had already bumped the driver's side knock sensor, causing the the base of the 1-pin terminal plug-in to crumble. Despite the labor required to get back to the knock sensor for replacement (which isn't as big a deal or difficult as it seems, & would've been quicker w/o the carbon cleanup or the injector service), the fact that RockAuto wanted $103.xx for a knock sensor, & that there's only one terminal in the plug led me to slide it back on (it lined up as though it wasn't broken) with a dab of super glue. No codes so far, so hopefully i got away with it. I upgraded to the 2.0 KW starter ($99.xx new TYC, no core @ RockAuto) which sounds a little different than the OEM, & I did crank it with the intake off & the fuel pump relay pulled, just to make sure everything functioned correctly before reassembly. I ordered the repair kit for my original starter as well ($15), but haven't decided whether I'll rebuild my original as a "spare" or return the kit. That solenoid sitting down in the deepest part of the vee subjects it to more heat than the starter motor, therefore the plunger assembly could be worn as well (haven't cracked it open yet). I found my swivel head ratchet invaluable for loosening & tightening the driver's side starter mount bolt. I, like others, tried replacing the starter relay in the under-hood fuse box, to no avail. I didn't expect it to work, as the loud "click" heard at least 5x before the solenoid would engage the starter was definitely coming from below the intake manifold, while a much fainter click could be heard from the starter relay. I stowed the spare starter relay in its box in a blank area of the under hood fuse box, in a way that it wouldn't be moving sliding around. Here are my photos of the job. Thanks again for this super-helpful 1st gen Tundra forum!