I have around 5000 on my 05 DC. The semi-synthetic goes 5k between oil changes. I wont change it until 10000 and every 5k from there on out. Is it okay to change it every 5k or should the changes be done more often? The manual says every 5k is just fine...

Every 5k should be just fine. Unless you want to change it every 3k. Right now I'm running my Mobil 1 until 5k. Sometimes I change it at 3.....this time 5. Easier on the wallet....plus the oil still looks great after 4k on it!

David.. when did you switch to synthetic? mileage?

bottom line: the more oil changes the better!!!!! stick with 3 months/3000 miles. oil changes are "way" cheaper than engines. yspert

Go by the manual

In my younger, more uptight days, I'd change every 3k miles. Now I'm older and wiser and go 5k miles per oil change. Go 3k if it makes you feel better, but I challenge you to find just one person who had an engine failure because the oil was changed every 5k rather than 3k. I know I never heard of that happening.

I do the 3 months/3k miles thing, whichever comes first, but my daily commute to work is less than 5 miles @ 55 mph, which is not good for the engine, so I figure it should be changed more often... I usually end up with 2-3K miles in 3 months.

3 to 5k. It depends on driving conditions.
I rotate & balance and change the air filter at the same time.

bottom line: the more oil changes the better!!!!! stick with 3 months/3000 miles. oil changes are "way" cheaper than engines. yspert


This statement is bull hockey. For years experts have stated that the 3K rule was set up by the quick lube and oil industry. Yes, it is cleaner oil, but it is a waste of money. 5K is a good time to change oil.

David.. when did you switch to synthetic? mileage?

Well I bought my truck used at exactly 24,000 miles and it was receiving regular oil changes by the Toyota dealer from the begining of it's life. The guy I bought it from was really nice, and really anal about the truck as well. As strange as he was, I knew that the truck had been taken care of, so that was nice.

I changed to Mobil 1 probably around 35,000 miles + or - a little bit. I just hit the 50,000 miles mark last night! Now sitting at 50,003 miles in my driveway :D. So far it has been great. Right now I am running a 5k interval on 5W-30. I am driving to Florida mid May (I'm in PA), so I figure I'll change the oil right before my trip since I'm at 4k now on it.

The oil really does look great after 4k! Of course it's a little dirty...that's expected, but not anything like regular oil. Just makes me feel better about the life of my truck I guess. It may not be worth it in the long run....but if it is I'll be glad that I did it.

Quick question.....still on the topic of oil. I've heard that synethic oil isn't good in the rear diffs of 00's and 01 Tundras. Anybody second that? I need to change it soon as I'll hopefully be installing a Powertrax No-slip :devil:

I am doing my oil changes every 5,000 miles. I just took mine in for an oil change today as a matter of fact.

If you're using Mobil 1 synthetic and changing your oil every 5k you are throwing your money down the drain. That oil was designed to go much farther than that. The company that I work for has oil change intervals of 80,000 miles with no problems.

If you're using Mobil 1 synthetic and changing your oil every 5k you are throwing your money down the drain. That oil was designed to go much farther than that. The company that I work for has oil change intervals of 80,000 miles with no problems.
Keep in mind, if your "engine" is still under the "FACTORY 5/60K" warranty....
I would consider staying within 5K intervals as recommended in your owners manual. Just a thought.....;)

This statement is bull hockey. For years experts have stated that the 3K rule was set up by the quick lube and oil industry. Yes, it is cleaner oil, but it is a waste of money. 5K is a good time to change oil.

would you please post your qualifications to recommend ANYTHING on this
site. yspert

would you please post your qualifications to recommend ANYTHING on this
site. yspert
http://www.countryroads.net/countrywheels/story.cfm?story_id=303

This is one site of many. Do a research on google and type "3000 oil change myth". There will be many sites that come up. I am on the job site and there was one that I wanted to get to but the company filter knocked me out of it. I want to say something here also, I was not trying to dis or put an ugly spin on your comment. I am one that thought Motorcraft and Quaker State oil was good oil years back and found out through Popular Mechanics in the late 90s that it was not quality oil. If you ever get your oil tested, you will find that it is not needed UNLESS you live in a dirty environment or you live in a stop and go area.:o

here is one more...http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/
http://www.usedcars.biz/articles/change-oil-3000.html

bottom line: the more oil changes the better!!!!! stick with 3 months/3000 miles. oil changes are "way" cheaper than engines. yspert
would you please post your qualifications to recommend ANYTHING on this
site. yspert I see your signature states you are a sevice manager for a Toyota Dealership.
If 3000/3mo. oil change intervals are so critical,
why does my owners manual recommend 5000?

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#The%203000%20Mile%20Myth

Here is the main site for oil change myth at 3000 miles.

Our 2002 4runner states 7500 miles for oil change at normal conditions.

This 3000k myth has permeated the oil changing industry WHEN these JIFFY lubes and other 10 minute quick change places came on the scene of the economy.

The accurate way to know is to send a sample to Blackstone Labs. Get it tested at 5K and then they will know if the oil/filter is holding up or not holding up. Anything else is just an average of what works for most people. Averages are good but are you average? The manual says every 5K. That would be my starting point for testing. Mobil 1 used to be great stuff. It has been reformulated and may not be as good. I have not tested any of the new stuff in my cars. I may test my truck after the next oil change.

I may test my truck after the next oil change. If you do test your oil, and if you don't mind, I think most of us would love to hear (or see) the results.:tu:

If you do test your oil, and if you don't mind, I think most of us would love to hear (or see) the results.:tu:

If I do the test I will post the results. The first test would be to see how well the oil that went in the truck at 3500miles is doing at 8500 miles. But I will probably wait till 13500 and just test the oil that I put in the car at 8500 miles. I will probably swap in some Mobil 1 at that point with a Toyota filter.

If I do the test I will post the results. The first test would be to see how well the oil that went in the truck at 3500miles is doing at 8500 miles. But I will probably wait till 13500 and just test the oil that I put in the car at 8500 miles. I will probably swap in some Mobil 1 at that point with a Toyota filter. That would be great!!! We will be anxiously awaiting the results.
Thank you Sir.:tu:

New 2006 Toyota Tundra: $31,100.00 (9000 miles/year)
Oil change by a professional: $ 40.00
Three oil changes/year: $ 120.00
Cost of replacing the engine in the future: $3000.00 - $7000.00
(depending on how cheap you want to go and how many corners you cut)
Knowing that I will never have an oil related failure: priceless
Difference between 3000 and 5000 mile oil changes: $80.00
Life of vehicle: 15 years min
15 years x $80.00 = $1200.00
So, do I spread out the $1200.00 over 15 years or pay the guy that works
on my truck $3000.00 tomorrow when I pick it up? Oh, did i tell you about the
$600.00 I've saved up over the last 15 years by changing my oil only once a year? yspert

New 2006 Toyota Tundra $31,100.00 (9000 miles/year)
Oil change by a professional $ 40.00 $40.00????? That's a little high, is it not?
I went to a toyota dealership that offers a 59 minute or less oil change or the next one is free. Well, the first time I went on a sunday when I knew it would be busy.
I had a coupon and only paid $24.95(+tax) and it took them an hour and a half and I got the free oil change coupon. Also, at this dealership they BBQ burgers,dogs and offer sodas for free on sundays.
So the next time, I went on a sunday, got the free oil change, a free lunch and it took them an hour and a half again, and I got another free oil change coupon.
So next time I'll go on a sunday(again), get a free lunch and hopefully another free oil change coupon.:D
For those in the Sacramento area, this dealership is Roseville Toyota in the Roseville Auto Mall.
Needless to say, I'm REALLY happy with this dealership and I didn't even buy my truck from them!!!:eek:

That would be great!!! We will be anxiously awaiting the results.
Thank you Sir.:tu:
This was after 6 months (almost 7). I only put 2K on the oil, but it is driven daily and the oil barely has a chance to warm up on my (4) 5 mile trips per day. The oil is Chevron 10W30 (Dino oil), with a K&N oil filter. The 2UZ-FE (V8) engine is extremely easy on oil. If you have a V6, that may not be the case (I have no idea).

Used Oil Analysis done at Blackstone labs (http://thefrancks.smugmug.com/photos/62231242-L.jpg)

I especially like the part about the wear being so low it was "criminal"

I switched to Amsoil XL 10W30. I plan to test again at 6 months. I am shooting for 12 months, but we will see what happens.

Keep in mind that the short trips are very hard on oil. Usually you will have more blowby that does not have a chance to get out of the oil because the oil never gets up to temp.

Cheers!

3K miles was the standard on primitive engines that were lucky to last 100K miles. Now engines frequently outlast the vehicles due to smaller tolerances and newer technologies that allow the engines to run much cleaner and more efficiently. Changing oil in these trucks at 3K is a complete waste of money and natural resources. Even 5K is pretty conservative, especially for people using synthetic. If you are the one of hundreds who's engine does fail prematurely, that doesn't necessarily mean that changing the oil more frequently would have saved it? Even it if would have, the $1200 extra in oil changes (or whatever it calculated to) is expensive insurance based on the extremely low probability that your engine would fail.

Not that I'm an oil expert but I've been changing oil for 18 years in my vehicles as well as family and friends vehicles. I've always changed every 5000 miles with Dino oil. Never had a problem and the vehicles I've owned had well over 100,000 miles on them. I think changing every 3,000 miles is excessive and a waste of money and oil that is still capable of good lubrication. I also agree with Duke Boy...3,000 miles is a waste of a natural resource. Those quick lube places and dealerships are clearly stating 3,000 miles for an oil change so they can make more money.

I've tested oil on quite a few vehicles in the past. Wasn't really planning to test the oil in my Tundra. I'm sure 5k miles is more than adequate if that's what is printed in the manual. I had over 200k miles on my Camry V6's using 5k mile intervals. Maybe 3k miles is better, although how much better would be difficult to ever measure. Will you get an extra 20k miles by performing more frequent oil changes? 50k miles? Who knows. But if the oil is within spec, it's doing it's job.

I can't fathom keeping a vehicle beyond 200k miles...in fact my VW Jetta is the only one I've kept passed 100k miles in the past seven years. And I go 10k miles between changes on that car, but it's spec'd for synthetic. I tested my last oil change because I was at around 12k miles when I got around to changing it. According to the test, it was about 50% on the additive package and wear metals/contaminants were all very low. They said I could extend the drain intervals to approx. 18k miles and still be safe. This was Mobile Delvac synthetic.

Change within the limits set by the manufacture at a minimum and keep receipts/records. Here is why. Several years ago I had a Nissan that developed a strange engine acceleration problem in the last month of warranty. It was in and out out the shop probably 15 times until the dealer kept it for about a month to try and resolve the problem. Finally a hot shot factory guy cam and found something in the f/i system related to temp. No the fun part.. the dealer wanted me to pay for the hours spent on it during the month could not determine the problem. I stated that it was under warranty, the service records confirmed that all the scheduled maint was completed except for OIL CHANGES (other that the few they did while the car was in their shop for a 15/30K check up. I did all the oil changes at 3k intervals at that time but had no proof.

What I wound up doing was getting some old receipts from friends who went to quick oil change places, cut, pasted, copied (the old fashion way) and made 60K mile Worth of oil change receipts. It was a pita but it worked and saved me a few K$. Now I change between 3 and 5K miles myself but keep EVERY receipt for oil.

Yes, I forgot to mention that if you're going to consider extended drain intervals, do so AFTER the warranty period. Even if using synthetic. You don't want to give them any reason to throw-out the warranty. This is why I usually go to the dealer or quick lube during that warranty period so I have documented receipts. You CAN keep your receipts for oil/filters and write down the mileage, but that still doesn't PROVE you changed the oil. I've never seen anyone not honor a warranty if someone performed their own services, but it could be a battle with a prick of a service writer. I've owned a pile of Toyotas over the years, and frankly most of the Toyota shops are run by ********.

3K miles was the standard on primitive engines that were lucky to last 100K miles. Now engines frequently outlast the vehicles due to smaller tolerances and newer technologies that allow the engines to run much cleaner and more efficiently. Changing oil in these trucks at 3K is a complete waste of money and natural resources. Even 5K is pretty conservative, especially for people using synthetic. If you are the one of hundreds who's engine does fail prematurely, that doesn't necessarily mean that changing the oil more frequently would have saved it? Even it if would have, the $1200 extra in oil changes (or whatever it calculated to) is expensive insurance based on the extremely low probability that your engine would fail.
I would whole heartedly agree with Dukeboy. I only change my oil more often then that because I put so few miles on the truck (4K a year). Mileage is not the best indicator of when to change your oil. Extended idle times and short trips wear out the additive packages much quicker. The manufacturers recommendation is what I would stick with as it is conservative, but I probably wouldn't go over a year without an oil change. When my wife drove the truck and put more miles on it, we went up to the 7500 mile manufacturer limit and the oil still looked fine (although what an oil looks like isn't really a good indicator - that is all I had to go by before I knew about used oil analysis).

5K will do you fine on either conventional or synthetic. Any more then that is most likely a waste of money, and according to a 2003 SAE paper on used oil, might be actually causing more wear on your engine. There are a bunch of independent analysis to back up that theory also. If you really want to get into extended OCI then I would go to this forum:

www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/)

This is also a good read on extended oil change intervals. They found that most of the wear occured during the first 3K of the oil change. It dropped significantly after that, indicating that 3K oil changes are actually producing more wear on your engine. I used the calculator on the site below and found that we should be changing around 10K with an oil that has a TBN of about 11 (amsoil, Mobil1, and redline have this high of a TBN. TBN = Total Base Number. It is an indicator of how much additive you have left in the oil to protect the engine.):

neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html)

If you truly want to see what works best for your engine and driving habits, do an oil sample with TBN analysis at 5K ($26 if you prepay with Blackstone labs or $30). Based on the analysis, I'd probably test again at 7K, 9K, 10K or whatever makes sense based on the analysis. I'd probably repeat the procedure once more just to feel good about it. After that you will have a scientifically based change interval customized for your driving habits and engine.

My BMW goes 15K per oil change. Granted the engine was designed for the extended oil change (large sump & large filter), but it goes to show you that the 3K oil change is excessive with today's engines. Oil doesn't wear out. It becomes contaminated with insoluables and increases in acidity over time. There are people with bypass oil filtration on duramax diesels that have 100K on one oil change and they have the oil analysis to prove it. Gasoline engines probably won't get that far because they don't consume as much oil (not enough "top up" oil to replenish the addpack), but I could see 35K with a bypass oil filter in a Tundra.

I have a carchip installed on the Tundra and I am considering calculating how many engine revolutions/engine hours/total miles/total fuel consumed per reduction in TBN. It will take a lot of used oil analysis to compile any type of correlation, especially with the amount of miles I put on the truck. It will take many years to get any type of good theory established (and therefore it will probably not be ever finished). I am still collecting the data though, so we will see!

If you're using Mobil 1 synthetic and changing your oil every 5k you are throwing your money down the drain. That oil was designed to go much farther than that. The company that I work for has oil change intervals of 80,000 miles with no problems.

Oil change intervals of 80,000 miles? What kind of machines are they? If you are recommending this for a Tundra, you are completely out of your mind.

Dirty Oil = Wear on Engine

Clean Oil = Minimal Wear on Engine

The more oil changes the better, but if you can't afford changing your oil every 3,000, it will be fine at 5,000.

I would whole heartedly agree with Dukeboy. I only change my oil more often then that because I put so few miles on the truck (4K a year). Mileage is not the best indicator of when to change your oil. Extended idle times and short trips wear out the additive packages much quicker. The manufacturers recommendation is what I would stick with as it is conservative, but I probably wouldn't go over a year without an oil change. When my wife drove the truck and put more miles on it, we went up to the 7500 mile manufacturer limit and the oil still looked fine (although what an oil looks like isn't really a good indicator - that is all I had to go by before I knew about used oil analysis).

5K will do you fine on either conventional or synthetic. Any more then that is most likely a waste of money, and according to a 2003 SAE paper on used oil, might be actually causing more wear on your engine. There are a bunch of independent analysis to back up that theory also. If you really want to get into extended OCI then I would go to this forum:

www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/)

This is also a good read on extended oil change intervals. They found that most of the wear occured during the first 3K of the oil change. It dropped significantly after that, indicating that 3K oil changes are actually producing more wear on your engine. I used the calculator on the site below and found that we should be changing around 10K with an oil that has a TBN of about 11 (amsoil, Mobil1, and redline have this high of a TBN. TBN = Total Base Number. It is an indicator of how much additive you have left in the oil to protect the engine.):

neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html)

If you truly want to see what works best for your engine and driving habits, do an oil sample with TBN analysis at 5K ($26 if you prepay with Blackstone labs or $30). Based on the analysis, I'd probably test again at 7K, 9K, 10K or whatever makes sense based on the analysis. I'd probably repeat the procedure once more just to feel good about it. After that you will have a scientifically based change interval customized for your driving habits and engine.

My BMW goes 15K per oil change. Granted the engine was designed for the extended oil change (large sump & large filter), but it goes to show you that the 3K oil change is excessive with today's engines. Oil doesn't wear out. It becomes contaminated with insoluables and increases in acidity over time. There are people with bypass oil filtration on duramax diesels that have 100K on one oil change and they have the oil analysis to prove it. Gasoline engines probably won't get that far because they don't consume as much oil (not enough "top up" oil to replenish the addpack), but I could see 35K with a bypass oil filter in a Tundra.

I have a carchip installed on the Tundra and I am considering calculating how many engine revolutions/engine hours/total miles/total fuel consumed per reduction in TBN. It will take a lot of used oil analysis to compile any type of correlation, especially with the amount of miles I put on the truck. It will take many years to get any type of good theory established (and therefore it will probably not be ever finished). I am still collecting the data though, so we will see! Thanks a MILLION "joshfrankc". Excellent info.
I know your recent posts in this thread took quite a bit of time and research.
I (and probably all of us) REALLY do appreciate it.:tu::tu:

Oil change intervals of 80,000 miles? What kind of machines are they? If you are recommending this for a Tundra, you are completely out of your mind.

Dirty Oil = Wear on Engine

Clean Oil = Minimal Wear on Engine

The more oil changes the better, but if you can't afford changing your oil every 3,000, it will be fine at 5,000.

Not sure what machines they are, but with a good bypass it is not unheard of. Class 8 diesels (like ones you would find in an 18 wheeler) routinely go 200K on one oil change. There are engines out there too with 1,000,000 miles on a class 8 (yes that is 6 zeros). These are totally different engines though, with 8 gallon oil sumps and bypass filtration. Fleet managers of these kind of vehicles test oil out of practice because replacing 8 gallons of oil is, well, really expensive.

I don't know if a gasoline engine could go 80K even with bypass filtration, depends on the oil capacity and engine. However, 7K and even 10K is easily approachable with a good synthetic. If you use products like lube control (LC20) and add an ounce every 1K miles to your oil, you can extend the interval probably further since LC20 helps restore the addpack.

If my engine was under warranty, however, I'd probably stick with 5K - The manufactures specified oil change interval for severe conditions. Not that 10K OCIs will void your warranty per se (especially if you have a lab report for each oil change), but it makes it more of a hassle if you have a warranty claim.

Thanks a MILLION "joshfrankc". Excellent info.
I know your recent posts in this thread took quite a bit of time and research.
I (and probably all of us) REALLY do appreciate it.:tu::tu:

Just giving back to the community. :)

Of course, everything you read on the internet needs to be taken with scrutiny. There is a lot of bad information out there too. But my comments above represent what I have studied, and I beleive the preponderance of evidence out there supports my comments.

I wish everyone here the best of luck with their vehicles.
sorry I could not have been of more help. yspert

New 2006 Toyota Tundra: $31,100.00 (9000 miles/year)
Oil change by a professional: $ 40.00
Three oil changes/year: $ 120.00
Cost of replacing the engine in the future: $3000.00 - $7000.00
(depending on how cheap you want to go and how many corners you cut)
Knowing that I will never have an oil related failure: priceless
Difference between 3000 and 5000 mile oil changes: $80.00
Life of vehicle: 15 years min
15 years x $80.00 = $1200.00
So, do I spread out the $1200.00 over 15 years or pay the guy that works
on my truck $3000.00 tomorrow when I pick it up? Oh, did i tell you about the
$600.00 I've saved up over the last 15 years by changing my oil only once a year? yspert I see you've edited (added info) to your post. And it makes perfect sense.
I pesonally don't know anyone (including myself) who changes their oil only once a year.
I'm just wondering why you pay $40.00 for an oil change when in your signature,
you state that you are as follows:
ASE Certified Master Technician
Line Technician -- Goodman Toyota
Service Advisor -- Goodman Toyota
Service Manager -- Goodman Toyota
They should give you an employee discount.

I wish everyone here the best of luck with their vehicles.
sorry I could not have been of more help. yspert
Don't take it so hard man ;). Tomaeto - Tomato. Most used oil is used for heating oil and there is a shortage of that right now. As long as you recycle your used oil I don't beleive you are destroying the environment. It might be costing you a little more then you probably need to shell out in oil changes, but compared to gas prices nowadays it is cheaper to change you oil then to fill up your tank. I never really understood the complaint that changing the oil was too expensive or synthetic oil is too expensive when it still was cheaper then a tank of gas.

Even though I would disagree with your 3K oil changes, if it makes you sleep better at night - good for you. In the end you have to do what makes you comfortable. There is no shame in that.

It's the pictures of sludged up I6 BMW motors that haven't had an oil change in 40K miles because their owners are waiting for the "you really need to change your oil dumbass - I've been telling you to do it for 20K miles now and I really mean it this time" light to come on that makes me cringe. Oh the horrors I have seen... :eek:

"I'm just wondering why you pay $40.00 for an oil change"

The $40.00 was just for the example. i change my own
so the cost is about.....say $10.00 to $20.00 depending
which oil I use at the time. yspert

Plenty of folks on here have had their oil tested( member KLS comes to mind). And every analysis has come back good, that's with analysis done at 10k, 15k miles. So now I change my truck every 10k, with synthetic.
With our new vehicle I have the dealer change it(at 5k), simply because when I do it I never keep the proper records, even though I know I should. It's easier just to have the dealer do it and stamp the maintenance book. Plus I get a free car wash out of it.

"It's the pictures of sludged up I6 BMW motors that haven't had an oil change in 40K miles because their owners are waiting for the "you really need to change your oil dumbass - I've been telling you to do it for 20K miles now and I really mean it this time" light to come on that makes me cringe. Oh the horrors I have seen...

the horrors is right!!!!! yspert

Not to hijack the thread, but if your dipstick looks like this you should probably change the oil:

http://thefrancks.smugmug.com/photos/65290590-M-0.jpg


Totally ripped this off of e46fanatics forum (pardon my manners). If you want to hear the whole story, here is the link:

e46 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269465)

(WARNING: disturbing images of horribly neglected engine)

Not to hijack the thread, but if your dipstick looks like this you should probably change the oil:

http://thefrancks.smugmug.com/photos/65290590-M-0.jpg


Totally ripped this off of e46fanatics forum (pardon my manners). If you want to hear the whole story, here is the link:

e46 (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269465)

(WARNING: disturbing images of horribly neglected engine) The owner of the car is a Lawyer. I guess it's pretty tough to go in for an oil change, when you're driving around night and day........
.........CHASING AMBULANCE'S:D

I have been using synthetic oil since I bought the truck. The dealerships uses the same oil as well, the mobil 1 synthetic and mobil one oil filter.

I have been using synthetic oil since I bought the truck. The dealerships uses the same oil as well, the mobil 1 synthetic and mobil one oil filter.

Interesting that they don't use OEM oil and Toyota filter at a Toyota dealership. The Toyota filter is really different in construction then I have seen anywhere else. Toyota definately took a different approach to filtration then other filter manufacturers. Is is better? The jury is still out. Is is a good filter? Yep, and I have seen oil analysis to prove that. Not that Mobil 1 isn't good (it's a great filter and oil - and boy is it in service in a lot of vehicles), it's just that the OEM filter stands up well in its own right. It's got paper endcaps (which is a minus in my book), but it is built well, holds a lot, and doesn't go into bypass easily.

Now if I ran a Honda dealership, I'd be dropping those tiny Chinese made Frams with paper endcaps and plastic bypass valves :eek: and go with a Mobil1 or Wix. But Toyota should be proud of their air and oil filters - they did a good job in my opinion. Not to dog on Fram, they make good filters on their higher end line. But the entry level stuff is generally regarded as poor. Lines blur when you talk about the premium filters, but it appears that most of the oil analysis nuts on bobistheoilguy really don't like the Fram entry level filters once they moved operations to China. You can thank Walmart for pressuring Fram into making the move I guess.

I am using Mobil 1 extended life. Had oil tested at 10000 and at 15000 was same as new. I did change it at 15000, but it was a waste of time. I do change the filter every 5000 miles.

OK, I'm going a bit off-topic here, but at least it's oil related. We have an 8 year old Craftsman lawnmower that started smoking (white) pretty badly late last fall when my wife would cut the grass. I told her it was probably bad rings and that I'd keep an eye on it. A couple weeks ago we tried to start it and you couldn't even pull the cord. I finally removed the plug wire and got it freed up with my foot on the blade. When it started, you never saw so much smoke. Eventually it cleared up and ran fine. I decided to take it apart and change the rings. My wife didn't trust my engine building so we bought a new Craftsman. We like to keep one out front and one out back anyway. When I got the engine apart, the cylinder wall and the rings looked fine. There was a lot of burned oil in the head though. I cleaned up the valves and they seemed to fit pretty well so I changed gaskets and put it back together. I got to thinking that maybe using 5w30 might have let the oil get into the cylinder since 30w was recommended in warm climates. We started it up and it didn't smoke anymore. Maybe we had too much oil in it and somehow, it got past the upper valve?
OK, now on to the new mower. My wife decided to give it a spin yesterday. I asked her if she had put oil in it and she said yes. She was happily cutting the grass when the mower let out some awful sounds and she quickly shut it off. I checked it and sure enough it had no oil. After adding almost a quart of oil, I tried to pull the cord and it was seized. Back to the kick the blade trick and it freed up. It started right up and ran fine. I really didn't want to return it to Sears after what we'd done to it.

I got to thinking that maybe using 5w30 might have let the oil get into the cylinder since 30w was recommended in warm climates. We started it up and it didn't smoke anymore. Maybe we had too much oil in it and somehow, it got past the upper valve?

This is only a guess, but I wouldn't think using a multigrade over a straight SAE30 is going to cause the problem you had. If I were to guess, you have a bad head gasket. The white smoke is the tip off. And that could cause overheating and the piston lockup you experienced. Seeing that the problem went away after you put everything back together further supports this theory (even if you didn't replace the head gasket, you could have temporarily stopped the leak when you pulled the head off). Of course I am assuming this is a liquid cooled riding mower, right?

it is also possible that you may have overfilled it. The problem may have not manifested itself for awhile. Did it stick after a long run? If you overfilled it, the crankshaft could have frothed up the oil and caused the oil pump to starve on a long run (hard to pump frothy oil). That could have caused the piston to freeze. But I would lean towards head gasket first.



She was happily cutting the grass when the mower let out some awful sounds and she quickly shut it off. I checked it and sure enough it had no oil. After adding almost a quart of oil, I tried to pull the cord and it was seized. Back to the kick the blade trick and it freed up. It started right up and ran fine. I really didn't want to return it to Sears after what we'd done to it.


We did something similarly stupid with a backup generator here. Everyone thought someone had filled it with oil and no one did. One day it just quit. No noise, just turned off like you hit the kill switch. Turns out Briggs & Straton put a safety switch to kill the motor when the oil level was too low. Filled it with oil and it has been working fine for several years.

Maybe I am a boy scout, but I would probably return it and tell the truth (sure your wife forgot to fill it with oil...riiiiight.:D ). You might get a sympathetic person at Sears. If not, it really was your fault so an engine rebuild is the price you pay for forgetting to put oil in it.

Josh, it's an air cooled single cylinder self propelled mover. My wife got a hernia about 35 years ago and said she wouldn't cut the grass if I didn't get the self propelled type.
I did change the head gasket though, and I sort of think there being too much oil probably caused the smoke problem in mower 1.
Mower 2 (new) seems OK so I won't need to eat crow at Sears. I probably would have ratted her out if the mower had been toast.

Use Castrol SAE 5W-30 cold weather and SAE 10W-30 warm weather
The oil company say to change your oil every 3000 miles. Your owners manual say every 7000 miles. That is why I change mine at 5000 miles right in the middle. (plus its Easier to remember to change 50k 55k 60k 65k etc.) I wonder why is their 4000 miles difference in the two. Wait I know the OIL Companies want to sell OIL and the Motor Companies want to sell Motors.

to make your oil change quick and clean buy this http://www.autobarn.net/frasdseries.html

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/produ...ntId=603 0785

bottom line: the more oil changes the better!!!!! stick with 3 months/3000 miles. oil changes are "way" cheaper than engines. yspert
...expensive. These days engines can wait for oil change as long as 6500 miles. Also very subjective: depends on your driving conditions!!! DRIVING CONDITIONS IS KEY!!!!! weather, city vs highway driving, how u use your truck....COMMON SENSE!!! its very rare that I have ever heard of engine failure due to oil changes greater than 3000 miles interval! :eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :D :tu: :cool:

How many of you have owned more than one vehicle? I'm sure many of you are on your second or third vehicle at least. How many of you had engine failure? I've had 3 vehicles previously, used regular oil and changed their oil @ 5k. Each had over 200k in mileage and never had an engine failure. My friends have never had an engine failure. Many of you swear by synthetic (it definitely doesn't hurt), but your not running your engines at temperatures where synthetic makes the difference. I guess if you have the money to blow (especially synthetic) then I guess that's okay, but a lot of research has been done on the breakdown of oil and that is research the oil companies don't want you to see. The gist of a NASA study is: 5k and regular oil will result in no performance drop or damage. NASA's not the only one out there, but you get the idea.

I've generally always gone by the owners manual. Which even years past was around 5k miles for "normal" driving. Some have been 7k-10k miles. I've never had an engine problem, and several of my vehicles have had well over 200k miles. I think there are certain vehicles (turbos, diesels, frequent towers, race cars) that can benefit from synthetic, but unless you're using it to extend service intervals, you're peeing the money away.

Unless you're planning to keep a vehicle for EVER (and I mean EVER) anal retentive maintenance is nonsense. I once sold a truck for my father-in-law that had no maintenance records and was actually low on oil when the guy came and looked at it. He didn't care, bought it anyway.

I always go by the manual, I rarely lift the hood, and whenever I do the oil is in great shape, not too dirty.

I was watching Powerblock one Saturday, and the guys put Royal Purple in the engine, trans and axle and actually gained horsepower on the dyno.

When my warranty runs out, I'm considering switching to Royal purple, because if it gives you more hp, it would make sense that you would get better mileage from the lack of resistance.

I might even consider putting the truck on a dyno, I know of a place that gives three pulls on the dyno for $50.00, so it would be worth it.

What oil do the Toyota dealers typically use? The place that changed my oil last (as well as Wal-Mart) shows every 3K, but when I took my truck to the dealer yesterday for the change, I noticed the sticker said 5K miles is the next change.

Is this synthetic oil they use?

What oil do the Toyota dealers typically use? The place that changed my oil last (as well as Wal-Mart) shows every 3K, but when I took my truck to the dealer yesterday for the change, I noticed the sticker said 5K miles is the next change.

Is this synthetic oil they use?
My Dealer uses Kendall motor oil. I use the 5/30. It is NOT synthetic.
I go by the owners manual, and change the oil every 5k. Some times, it's closer to 4k.
In my opinion, the 3k oil change is a myth.
Please see the link for GREAT info.
Motor Oil Myths and Facts (http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm)

Not sure what machines they are, but with a good bypass it is not unheard of. Class 8 diesels (like ones you would find in an 18 wheeler) routinely go 200K on one oil change. There are engines out there too with 1,000,000 miles on a class 8 (yes that is 6 zeros). These are totally different engines though, with 8 gallon oil sumps and bypass filtration. Fleet managers of these kind of vehicles test oil out of practice because replacing 8 gallons of oil is, well, really expensive.

I don't know if a gasoline engine could go 80K even with bypass filtration, depends on the oil capacity and engine. However, 7K and even 10K is easily approachable with a good synthetic. If you use products like lube control (LC20) and add an ounce every 1K miles to your oil, you can extend the interval probably further since LC20 helps restore the addpack.

If my engine was under warranty, however, I'd probably stick with 5K - The manufactures specified oil change interval for severe conditions. Not that 10K OCIs will void your warranty per se (especially if you have a lab report for each oil change), but it makes it more of a hassle if you have a warranty claim.


Not to hijack the post but nobody is running oil changes 200K on anything Class 8 diesel. Most fleets and O/O's are changing engine oil in the 13,000 to 18,000 mile range. There are some engine companies (Mack, maybe others) dabbling with oil changes around 25,000 miles. Maybe transmission or rear axle lube at 200k but even that more likely at 100K .
I personally can't imagine anything going 100,000 on an oil change but I will mention that to my fleet manager next time my PM is due since it would save me a lot of shop time. Yes, there are some trucks with a million miles on them but by the time they get up around 600,000 or 700,000 miles they are getting pretty tired and ratty and not too nice to drive anymore. Probably comparable to most personal vehicles at 100,000 miles.

3 million miles in a truck over the last 30 years.

This statement is bull hockey. For years experts have stated that the 3K rule was set up by the quick lube and oil industry. Yes, it is cleaner oil, but it is a waste of money. 5K is a good time to change oil.

EXACTLY !!! 5k is very safe and easy to remember. I do mine at 5, 10, 15,000 miles etc. We've been doing this on our company trucks as well for years with out an oil related problem.

I'm gonna comment on both sides of this issue.

My brother bought a 1987 Bronco 2 new, and put 140,000 miles on it before selling it to me. A brother in law runs a quick lube place and preached the 3000 mile oil change. My brother decided not to listen and did oil changes religiously at 5000 miles using Penzoil and only Penzoil. Well, I burned the clutch out and decided to remove the motor to replace the clutch and oil pump as this was a known problem area in the 2.9L engine of that vintage. I was amazed at how clean the engine was when I tore it down, it had no sludge, no piston groove, no bearing wear, nothing. It was beautiful. A testament to 5K oil changes in late model clean burning temperature-well-controled engines.

On the other hand! At work I drive a 2000 Ford Ranger with a 3.0L engine. My employer went to 5000 mile oil changes. This motor works it's butt off in this extended cab 4X4 with an automatic. In a headwind on an uphill grade, it will pull 5000 RPM indefinitely, until you are over the top. This motor works HARD just to keep up with traffic. The oil, when changed at 5000 miles, comes out having the consistency of kerosene. It is plumb wore out!

At 80,000 miles, this 3.0L motor started developing a tick or light knock after about 3/4 of the way through one of these long pulls up a hill.

Sounds oil related to me. This motor ain't gonna make it 200,000 miles for sure. I'd be lucky if it makes it to the 100,000 mile vehicle trade in. I am CONVINCED this engine problem is a result of that old oil losing viscosity and protection before 5000 miles.

Moral of the story, if your truck isn't hard on oil, 5K intervals is fine. If it is hard on the oil, stick to the 3K changes. I feel the Tundra is gonna be easy on oil and a 5K oil change interval will be fine. It most certainly will be with the Mobil 1 I use.

Joe

for those who have used blackstone to get your oil analyzed:

do you change your oil yourself, or take it somewhere?

i usually take it to a local place (especially in these cold winter months) to do it, and would like to get the analysis done. i have the bottles from blackstone. do you just ask them to fill the bottle while they're at it? are the usually amenable to this?

or should i just change my oil myself this time for the analysis? and please, no lectures on how i should be changing the oil myself anyway...:rolleyes:

I would follow the manufacturer's recommendation for oil change intervals regardless of wether the synthetic oil is good for 15,000 or more. Sure, the oil wil not break down at 15000 miles but the engine would have generated lots of particles, impurities, carbon, acid, etc by this time. They will find their way into the oil as the oil filter will not filter everything. The oil is gonna be much thicker and smells worst. Its contaminated. And this is what's going to destroy the engine. However, changing oil 3000 miles on a normal driven, healthy engine is a waste specially when using synthetic oil.

Well I did my first oil change at 2902 miles and went to mobil 1 5w-30 with a purolator pure one filter. I was not happy that the new filter is smaller than the stock unit and I will use toyota filters in the future. I intend to go 5k between changes just like the manual states. I have the optional trailer package with the oil cooler and it took 7.5 quarts to fill her up.