Question 2001 Tundra Long Travel, RCD, or Solid Axle?

[trekfan101]

I have a 2001 tundra SR5 4x4 and have really been trying to figure out what kind of lift/suspension system to upgrade to. I originally wanted to go with the Camburg long travel kit for the travel and articulation. But the more I am told and research the more I think it would be better to just go with a front solid axle conversion (SAC). The main problem with these two is they are very expensive at around $6500 for either one.

The SAC would be the best way for simplicity and for durability but what I don’t understand is if the IFS system is weak then why do Baja racers use it. I know that after a Camburg upgrade, it beefs it up to take a pounding but would it be able to handle all kinds of off-road use like mud and rocks, not just sand? I would like to be able to do a combination of everything well. I don’t want to just jack it sky high to run mud or just be specialized in one area. I want the center of gravity as low as I can which is why I wanted the Camburg setup. But I also want front and rear lockers and my off-road buddies have told me that is just a disaster waiting to happen because the IFS is not strong enough; is that true? Is there anyone out there running lockers in the front IFS? Have you had any issues or problems with it?

Recently I have been leaning toward the RCD 6” lift with new rear leaf springs because of its massive price difference at around $2500-$3000. And I would be able to install it with some help from my friends which would save like $1000 on installation costs. The ride and handling is the one worry I have about this setup. Couldn’t I use the Camburg upper control arms to give me more travel or would that just destroy the ball joints?

I want to be able to run around 37 or 38” tires but I don’t want to have to use a body lift or have the thing higher than 7” (suspension, not counting tires). I have seen other tundra trucks out there that are running 37” that are using the Camburg system. One of them is one the socalsupertrucks.com gallery.

I have been trying to decide on one lift over another and keep going back and forth never being able to really decide on one or another. Bottom line is that I want as low center of gravity as I can get, good articulation, and still be able to run 38 tires with a front ARB locker. What is the best setup for something like that that will give the best bang for the buck?

[dyogim]

First off, going with a solid axle in the front allows for more articulation compared to an IFS set-up. Which is better for crawlin' type of off-roading. The long travel IFS set-up is better for high speeds. However, if you've checked out some of the rigs on KOH (King of the Hammers), a solid axle front can be a great slow and high speed rig. Same goes with IFS on the slow stuff.

As far as the RCD kit, Herbicidal has this kit and he has done a lot of different types of terrain with no issues. If he doesn't chime in here, PM him. I believe he is running the aftermarket upper control arms as well. If you don't have the funds to do the complete long travel or SAC set-up, this looks to be the best option for you. However, to run 37" or 38" tires, you may need to do some fender and/or front bumper trimming.

For the front locker on an IFS, you will really want to upgrade and go with manual locking hubs from ORS (Off Road Solutions). Having a locker in the front and driving on paved roads, gives you a work out if you don't have manual hubs

[trekfan101]

I will be going with ARB airlockers so i will be able to turn them on or off when i want to. i am trying to save money where i can and the manual hub conversion is almost $1000; would it still be needed?

Also the one thing about IFS systems that i have heard is that if you run large tires 35" an up it is very hard on the components and is much more likely to break. this is one of the reasons i have been looking into the solid axle. is this true or have people just telling me lies?

[dyogim]

Originally Posted by trekfan101

I will be going with ARB airlockers so i will be able to turn them on or off when i want to. i am trying to save money where i can and the manual hub conversion is almost $1000; would it still be needed?

Also the one thing about IFS systems that i have heard is that if you run large tires 35" an up it is very hard on the components and is much more likely to break. this is one of the reasons i have been looking into the solid axle. is this true or have people just telling me lies?

ARB's front and rear, is going to cost you about $1500-$2000 in parts alone. Unless you plan to install them yourself, installation will probably be about another $1000. This would be a good time to change your gears. Especially, if you plan on going with bigger tires. Herb is running 35" tires on his IFS and RCD kit and he's happy.

Anything other than stock is going to increase the wear on components and require more maintenance.

If your ultimate goal is to go with the long travel or SAC set-up. Save up and do it the way you want the first time if you wheel all the time. However, if you are wheel every now and then, start with the basics. adjustable coilovers, lunchbox lockers, etc.

Another question, for the amount of wheelin' you do , is it feasible to go with long travel or SAC set-up? Maybe try spending about $1000-1500 for a coilover setup for the front and AAL's in the rear. Maybe a Lock Right or Powertrax in the rear. This set-up will actually get you through some difficult trails. Once you start breaking stuff, then you could look into upgrading. Just a thought and opinion.

[DevinSixtySeven]

For the tires you want, a solid axle swap will be best.

But be realistic. What trails do you plan to run? IFS and 33s are adequate for many things, 35s get the job done a little better, cutting back the body with 35s helps even more.

Your wheelbase gives you an advantage over Jeeps when climbing and descending, even some Jeeps with 37s. I've seen it happen. They'll also school you when maneuverability becomes the strongest technical factor, so there's no reason to get cocky...just different configurations have different strengths.

How much wheeling have you done in the past? What are you used to? If you've driven FJ40s, Bronco IIs, and Wranglers, this is gonna be totally different. My buddy's Wrangler needs completely different lines than I do.

You will break various parts of the IFS drivetrain if you're climbing locked (even with 33s), but you'll also break a lot of equivalently sized solid parts, locked.

35" tires have been working very well for me for years. I recently locked both ends and only use the front for mud and snow/ice, and it's a great combination. I climbed Pucker Pass on snow and ice at low pressure and the lockers got me up. I've done the same around here, with 37" tires on snow, and that will be my winter tire size come November or whenever it's necessary here in CO.

What sort of wheeling do you want to do with this truck? Jon proved that a Tundra can take on UA...that thread, and many others with pictures, are in the Offroad forum here. Many years ago, Joe demonstrated that a stock-class Tundra with 33" tires and dual ARB lockers could negotiate the majority of the "classic" Moab trails. There are a couple guys on SoCalTundras.com with 4WD and LT, there's a beautiful fully caged black D-cab that's worth a look (Jensen, I think). Pretty sure he's mostly in the desert, but his truck is more than capable of the majority of 4WD trails where low range is required.

I know a few guys with drop brackets on their Tundras. They're as capable and strong as any other Tundra, and with the same weak front differential, they're just taller...ie less prone to using the front bumper like a bulldozer blade, fewer scrapes on the belly skid, and fewer hits to the sliders. They also don't handle as well, nor can they run as fast, as a truck with lower CG and a long travel kit, so you gotta pick what you want to do most, and build to accommodate the rest.

Realize that when you jump to 33s, you start needing to massage the body. For 35s, you'll be tubbing the front wheel wells and working the front bumper, unless you have a drop bracket or a body lift. You get to cut it up for 37s and you must have a wider front track or move the axle forward, or hit the frame when you turn. If you want to run 37s or larger and keep it low, you'll be getting glass...35" is the largest tire that will stuff in the rear wheel wells, and it still tears out the liner screws. Same in the front. Assuming that you kept the IFS, the largest tire you could reasonably run is a 38, and it'll be in mild situations like snow or sand, not dune bashing or rock crawling. Because of the footprint and turning angles, the most likely good tire for this would be a 38x11 Bogger...my 37x12.5 tires are mounted on 17x10@4.625" backspacing and scrub pretty hard through sharp turns. The 35x12.5 tires are on 16x8@4.5 and work fine, the section width is similar to what that 38x11 will have.

The truck also works awful hard to push a 37" tire over the Continental Divide at highway speed, with 4.88 gears.

See these threads:
Denver TS Meet 4/18/08
Tundras to MOAB. EJS weekend! - TTORA Forum
Tundras to Moab, March 21-23 08 - TTORA Forum
Ocotillo Full Flaunt Photo Shoot [Jan. 12th] - SoCalTundras.com
Ultimate Adventure 2008
Tundra race build
CV Shafts - TTORA

It sorta sounds like you're looking for what Jon's building. If you decide you don't need a solid front axle (yet?), you're headed about where I'm going...which is a stop on the way to a solid axle some day.

Also realize that you can get the Camburg setup for about 6K but putting strength and quality behind a V8 on a truck that was around 30K$ new costs a lot more than 6K$ and you'll be putting a huge amount of time in the build as well...because there's a lot more to it than just shoving a big axle under there. Ask dyogim, apimpdad, flyin6, joe, jjc, TMS2U about their build progressions.

If you don't have a lot of previous experience offroad, leave it stock for a while and learn to drive first. All that money will go to waste if you don't properly learn to drive.

-Sean

[trekfan101]

Thanks everyone for their thoughts and this is what i have realized. It would be a lot easier to just run 35" tires and that is not too much of a drop from the 37's so i could settle for that.

I would like to hear from some of the people that have the 6" RCD lift. Looking back on the lift would you have still gone with the RCD lift or would have gone with something else? I have heard that if you install the Camburg upper control arms it will allow a couple more inches of drop, is that correct and does it work with the RCD?

If i was to go with the RCD lift i would thow away the stupid blocks that come with it and get a new set of leafs. what would be the best kind to get and how many leafs would work best?

[Imdone]

For a cradle lift, the RCD is amazingly capable, I had the RCD on my 00 and never had an issue. It was byfar the easiest way to tuck a 35" tire under the Gen1 truck. I didn't have a locker up front and never needed one with the rear locked.

I had Alcan build a set of leafs for mine at 5" and I just let them do what they do best, I didn't tell them how many leafs, just what weights I carried and what I was going to use the truck for, this was good enough and the springs were awesome.

I had SAW build a set of coilovers for that length and used Camburg UCAs so I could get the max amount of lift and wheel travel. Herbicidal now has them on his truck. The UCAs give you1" more of droop.

If I had an additional 20K to throw at the truck just in suspension I would have gone SAS but I never regreted the RCD lift on that truck at all.

[DevinSixtySeven]

Originally Posted by trekfan101

I would like to hear from some of the people that have the 6" RCD lift. Looking back on the lift would you have still gone with the RCD lift or would have gone with something else? I have heard that if you install the Camburg upper control arms it will allow a couple more inches of drop, is that correct and does it work with the RCD?

Did you look over the links on TTORA that I posted?

The white Tundra with 35R20 Mud Grapplers and RCD kit is Pete's truck...peterfarhangi on the forums.

It's confirmed as both a performer and a panty dropper, so I don't think you'd regret it, no.

Of course, I think you'd regret a solid axle swap and coilovers through the hood even less, I know I will...but it'll be a few years .

-Sean

[STEALTHSR5]

Don't forget about the regear $$$ also!

[apimpdad]

You will never be satisfied with what you do the first time. I once had a 3" spacer, 3" body and 35s. I wheeled it decently, but the 35s rubbed and I didnt have the balls yet to cut and clearance the fenders, so I went down to 33s. Then after grenading 2 rear ring and pinions I decided it was time for the SAS and new rear axle.

After the SAS was done it was on 38s with a divorce np205. It was then to tall for me so I swapped in an Inchworm t-case and removed the body lift. Now I am picking up some 2.5" shorter springs this weekend and putting it on 37s.

Point of my story is you will never do it right the frist time. So you might as well start off small and/or simple and then upgrade from there. Thats what I and many others on here did and I am still doing it.

Also, check out my build thread in my sig.

[trekfan101]

I want to thank everyone for their input and i have decided what to go with. i will go with the 6" RCD lift with new leaf spring and camburg UCA for more travel. i figure that this will run me about $3710 all together. i have some buddies of mine that will help me install the kit so that saves me a little coin.

RCD Lift = $2480 (Any place lower?)
Camburg UCA = $530
new Leafs = $700 (estimate)

The only thing that i am not sure about is the shocks. i can get the camburg coilover shocks and UCA for $875 which is $350 more; is it worth it?

once this lift is done i plan on doing a few other upgrades. i will be getting some rock sliders, skid plates (tranny, transfer case), ARB sahara bumper, CNG conversion, gears and lockers. the biggest question i have is on the lockers. should i get a arb locker in the front? if i dont it would save me about $900 which i like but i dont want to have to pay to install it later, eapecially since i will have the 4.88 gears and lockers instaled at the same time.

[Hugemoose]

Depending on what kind of wheeling you are doing you might not need that front locker. As others have pointed out they have gone quite far with just the rear locked. And I agree. I have yet to have a problem with just the rear locked. And I wheel mostly rocks on very tight trails...which is a bit of a task for such a big truck.

And I would get the Camburg coilover right away if you can swing it. It will outperform the regular RCD set up on the road and especially the trails.

And apimpdad is right....the modifications never end. I just recently put on a new lift, shocks, sliders, and skids plates. I just wheeled it this past weekend....and I already have a new list of parts I want It never ends!

[trekfan101]

I was looking at everyone's pictures and i started to really look at STEALTHSR5. i love the look of your truck and how it looks mean just sitting there. i noticed you had a body lift done and wanted to know how it handled before and after the lift. was it worth it do do the body lift? i only ask because almost everyone off road guy i talk to tells me that they are a bad idea. i want to speak to a guy that has ACTUALLY done one on their Tundra.

Your tundra is basically how i would like mine to look; minus the paint job. when you put the 4.88 gears in with the 35's how is the power response? I have 285/75/16's now and the power is not not there. what is the RPM like at freeway speeds?

Here is a picture of my truck and i think it will look great once i get the RCD installed.

[STEALTHSR5]

Originally Posted by trekfan101

I was looking at everyone's pictures and i started to really look at STEALTHSR5. i love the look of your truck and how it looks mean just sitting there. i noticed you had a body lift done and wanted to know how it handled before and after the lift. was it worth it do do the body lift? i only ask because almost everyone off road guy i talk to tells me that they are a bad idea. i want to speak to a guy that has ACTUALLY done one on their Tundra.

Your tundra is basically how i would like mine to look; minus the paint job. when you put the 4.88 gears in with the 35's how is the power response? I have 285/75/16's now and the power is not not there. what is the RPM like at freeway speeds?

Thanks! I knew in the beginning that I wanted to run 35x14.50s and was skeptical is the RCD would accomodate that size, but I went ahead and did it anyways. Well they rubbed...BAD. So I got to cutting....and cutting....and cutting 'till I couldn't cut anymore....and still rubbed. So I decided on doing the bodylift for clearance. I offroad here and there but nothin too hard. I know that a lot of people don't like bodylifts and stuff, but I have an 87 Toy with only a bodylift, and I took it anywhere, so I took the dive and put one on the Tundra. Been on for over 2 years now and no probs. The 488's made the response close if not better than when it was stock...definitely got the low end pep back. I think at 65 I'm about 2100....I think, I'll double check that tomorrow. Check with IMDONE, cause he squeezed more suspension lift out of his truck without having to add a bodylift. Also, you should check out herbicidal's and mustang67408 's trucks.

Oh yeah....and in accord with everyone else, once you start modding, it won't stop!

[trekfan101]

Thanks for the info STEALTHSR5, but i have a few more questions for ya. when you are running that large of a tire what kind of trimming did you have to do. was it just to the front bumper? also i see in your pictures section that you got some extended Camburg shocks from Imdone, is it better to go with these shocks for the RCD lift vs the standard ones they give you? also what did they cost?