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TacomaGeneral discussion forum for the 2005 and later Toyota Tacoma.
This is a discussion thread titled "Why a fullsize?", within the Tacoma forum, part of the Truck Forums category.
You can't seriously believe that you have the best health care system? Other systems do have flaws but the US system is based on $$$. It may be ok for those with $$$ but ask those without.
Yeah guys, let's keep this on topic and not turn it into a U.S. vs. the rest of the world debate.
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Back on topic. I agree that the size of truck you buy has a lot to do with status and advertisement. It can be broken down even further. Why buy a 4x4 DC when a PreRunner AC would have probably done the job?
True...however, I think a lot of people NEED 4x4 in the winter climates more so than a lot of people may NEED a fullsize truck. I can get by without a fullsize truck...I CANNOT get by without 4wd. Driving around at my cabin, my driveway (it's a 1/4 mile dirt road up a mountain), driving in the snow, backroads, etc, 4x4 has come in handy plenty of times. Now for the 4wd guys who don't go offroad and live in Florida, don't kid yourself
I want 4x4 because I live in a part of Canada that gets a lot of snow and it's good to have. We also do a little off road exploring. It's a stretch to say I need it though, considering the last vehicle I had was a Corolla. But there is a big difference between a front wheel drive car and a rear wheel drive truck. My wife has never driven a rear wheel drive vehicle in snow and ice.
Seriously, how can you comment on such things when you've never traveled?
i read. can't travel, my US currecy isn't worth anything and most of the world doesn't like Americans anymore.
I'll put it this way: What's your definition of "first"? What criteria is used to come to that conclusion? We DO have the best system of government, a democratic republic (socialism and communism are miserable failures time and time again).
usually because our government shuns them or incites a coup. i don't think a democracy with only two choices is all that great. what's up with having a father and son as president, now with a chance at a husband and wife combo. seems the "same" people still run this place.
We DO have the best healthcare system in the world (since you haven't been to Europe, you don't understand that in the UK you typically wait 6 months for a doctors appointment or up to a year for an MRI; I have friends who come here once a year for vacation and healthcare).
can't backup my numbers, but i think we're rated about 40th.
Economy, we've had unprecedented growth in the last few years.
in what industries?
Sure, things have slowed down in the last year but come one, stop reading the paper and watching the news because all you get is doomsday predictions that are simply unrealistic.
tell that to our president. i abhore network TV. don't read the paper either. they are just distractions.
For example, do you honestly think that 95% of the population being employed is bad?
what is 5% of 300,000,000?
Check out France where an 8% unemployment rate is cause for celebration.
not bad for a nation that produces....cheese & wine.
When was the last time a news organization made money giving us good news?
yes i agree, it's all about money here in the USA.
I will agree with your initial statement regarding the domestics. I personally will not buy something just because it's American made. I'll buy what I WANT and what's best for ME, not what's best for Joe Blow the Detroit factory worker making $35/hour to pop some rivets on an assembly line.
Come on, folks. Life is great here. Turn off the TV and live it.
sorry to hack this thread up, but i don't want any confusion. i consider myself to be a patriot, but i'm not proud of what we as a nation have been doing as of late...i'm proud of the ideas that our founding fathers prescribed just over 200 years ago. which are the same ones that made this country the superpower that it is today. but we are quickly straying from these very good ideas and beliefs towards a self serving police state where the government is only worried about you when you owe them money.
I want 4x4 because I live in a part of Canada that gets a lot of snow and it's good to have. We also do a little off road exploring. It's a stretch to say I need it though, considering the last vehicle I had was a Corolla. But there is a big difference between a front wheel drive car and a rear wheel drive truck. My wife has never driven a rear wheel drive vehicle in snow and ice.
I NEED it to get to my house...you would have to see it to believe it I suppose. I want to get to my house in the winter, therefore, I need it. Seriously though, I 100% could not go without it. We tried in the past, and ended up parking alongside roads and at the bottom of our driveway (I'm only 23, and I've never owned anything but a 4wd, but my parents did have some non-4wd cars back when I was younger, and it wasn't fun). You're right, however, you CAN get by with 2wd in snowy environments, but you CAN'T get up our driveway with any amount of snow/ice in 2wd).
It's mostly a social status thing. Just like V8 vs V6, 3/4 ton vs 1/2 ton and 4WD vs 2WD is mostly a social status thing. 4WD pickups ride rougher, are more costly to maintain, gets substantially worse fuel economy, and 4WD is rarely needed for traction, but you are perceived as more of a "successful, confident, masculine man" if you drive a 4WD both in the eyes of your male peers and the ladies. For a short man it's especially important to own a full size 4WD to help make yourself acceptable in social circles.
The worst possible combination is a clean shaven (people think wimpy and unmasculine) short man (people think unsuccessful or intellectual nerd type) driving a 2WD 4 cylinder compact pickup (people think poor or wimpy, choir boy type)
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Hey, go easy on some of us 5'7", no beard at present, take a shower at lest once daily, have a 2WD 4cyl Tacoma, and have owned several 4cyl import trucks over the years, did read on a college level in the 4th-5th grade, but a B/B- student otherwise except math, all my motorcycles have been street legal dual-sports of 350cc or less. On the other side of things I do own a 4WD (New Holland tractor) and have owned 2 Jeeps in the past, (but mostly for the convertible factor), have a turbo diesel BIG truck with a flatbed, have also owned several full size pickups with growling V8's, a reg cab 97.25% full size Tundra with a purrrring V6, and I am in the process of buying my neighbors low mileage pristine condition 73 VW Thing that has a very tough, macho, testosterone laced interior of mostly semi-gloss finished steel panels. With my macho-wimp level muddled so, just where do I fit in?
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I do agreee with kathyricks that some people do just buy full size trucks and some buy 4WD's just for the image, and for what others might think; but I also agree that if a person wants a certain type truck, motorcycle, house or anything else they want and can afford then they should get what they want.
you nailed it. we were all brought up to believe that dodge chevy & fords are not just the best, but the only thing you should drive if you're a "true American". i think this dogma applies to a lot more than just trucks these days. america is not "first" in much of anything anymore...manufacturing, health care, economy...but the people that live here "wouldn't trade it for anything else". most of the people who will make this statement, have never seen or known anything else about the world other than what they see on network TV, which i'm sure is not biased at all. ........... i've not traveled the world or anything, hell i don't even have a passport, but i'm smart enough to know ....
So you freely admit that YOUR opinion is entirely based in what you see on the network news but yet you're so sure your opinion is right that you belittle those others whom you imagine have as little first hand information as you do??? Has anyone else told you that you're smart enough to "know" or is that something you just dreamt up yourself? Maybe you're not smart at all. If all those other people whom you disagree with are naive because they don't have first hand knowledge, could that same reasoning apply to you?
I don't often watch the network news or any other tv news either, but I do travel all over the world and based on what I see, I couldn't disagree with you more. Among other things, we DO have the best healthcare in the world. The countries who have gone to that have long waiting lists (except for the elite who get special treatment or can afford "private" doctors) and when something goes seriously wrong with their health, if their citizens have the money to do so, they come here. Even in the UK and western Europe, the lines are long and you can be told that some treatments just aren't "appropriate" for you! And in most of the rest of the world, even if there were NO waiting line, believe me that you'd have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the nasty, dilapidated buildings that serve as hospitals for the average citizen. Also, the countries that provide socialized medicine are very particular about who they even allow into their countries to become new citizens who could avail themself of free healthcare, whereas we have a much larger populace and an ongoing flood of new people coming here. Try moving to one of these countries that you seem to envy and you'll learn that they won't take even someone as smart as yourself, let alone every poor, uneducated, person who manages to make it here!
If you are one of those who would like to "trade it for something else," then please feel free to do so, but something tells me that you'll just stick around, still without even a passport, griping about how you imagine we compare to the world you've chosen to never even see for yourself. If the nightly news says so, it must be right. After all, you've decided that you're "smart enough to know" and that's good enough for you.
If your post really was a parody of the left's version of Archie Bunker, then you "got" me, congrats.
As for the big truck issue, I'm pretty amazed by all the amateur sociologists and psychologists on here. For the record, I'm 6'1" so apparently don't "need" a big truck, and I've never noticed a bunch of short guys driving them either. I have a 4WD truck to get to work when it snows a lot and to tow my boat and to carry supplies for do it yourself home projects. Whatever. I had a full size 2005 GMC before I got my Taco, and I switched mostly because I liked the maneuverability in close quarters and the more taut way it felt while driving. Also, I really didn't need a functional back seat like the GMC had. The *new* GMC's are much more technologically advanced than our Taco's are though, and their 8 cylinder engine shuts down half the cylinders while highway driving so they manage to get just about the same mileage with their bigger, heavier truck as we do with our smaller Taco's. That's a pretty amazing accomplishment. They also handle much better than previous versions did. If I frequently needed to haul or tow big loads and/or had kids who needed the back seat room, I'd have a new generation GMC, but since I don't, and I like the way my Taco looks and how easy it is to pull into tight parking spots, so for now I prefer to have the smaller truck. But if my needs changed, my truck would also change. And if GMC put the effort into developing their midsize truck/engine as they did into developing their full size truck, I'd strongly consider that rather than another Tacoma, not because I dislike my Taco, but because the GMC would be a more advanced, fuel efficient, and overall better truck, at least in my opinion.
I am going through the same thing as you are. I drove full size in the '70s and tacoma since 1986. As I get older I want more room! I drive a full size at work and really notice the taco being cramped when I get in it. (I'm not big 5' 9" 170 lbs). The other day I was getting in and hit my knee on something under the steering wheel and really wanted a full size!
Forget crunching numbers, get a full size, you'll be much happier IMO.
And if GMC put the effort into developing their midsize truck/engine as they did into developing their full size truck, I'd strongly consider that rather than another Tacoma, not because I dislike my Taco, but because the GMC would be a more advanced, fuel efficient, and overall better truck, at least in my opinion.
If I needed a full size... a GM would be the last vehicle I would consider. I drove them off and on for over 30 years and got tired of being used as a "field tester".
BTW I do not consider pushrod engines to be advanced.
Most companies abandoned them years ago for OHC. GM keeps them around because they are cheap and easy to throw together.
If I needed a full size... a GM would be the last vehicle I would consider. I drove them off and on for over 30 years and got tired of being used as a "field tester".
BTW I do not consider pushrod engines to be advanced.
Most companies abandoned them years ago for OHC. GM keeps them around because they are cheap and easy to throw together.
If you don't like GMC's for your own reasons, then I have no argument against that at all, and I won't try to psychoanalyze you either.
GM trucks are roomier inside and have greater payload capacity than a Taco and they have an engine that produces much more power, yet uses about the same amount of fuel. That seems like a good thing to me. As long as they are getting results like that I hope that they keep their engines just as "cheap" and easy to throw together as possible because I certainly can't afford any more expensive ones (to buy or repair) and GM is losing money at current price levels so it's not like they are pocketing obscene $$$ while gouging their customers. Maybe there are more elegant solutions than GM chose and maybe they wouldn't even have to use pushrods so you'd be happier, but I'm more interested in the actual results than in the details of how they get those results.
I also think that Toyota could stand to do some things like making their engines more efficient. If GM can up their mileage by 3 or 4 mpg by shutting down half their cylinders on the highway, why can't Toyota do something similar?
Overall, the Taco suits my current needs better than any American truck that I'm familiar with and I'm pretty happy with it. I'm just making the point that for some people, American trucks do legitimately make more sense, and they actually lead Toyota in some areas of innovation and improving gas mileage (a rather important issue these days). It's not all one sided and there's no reason for people to be dumping on or questioning the manliness of people just because they happen to prefer an American, or a Japanese built truck.
"GM is losing money at current price levels"
Now there's a sign of a well run company.
I'm comparing with the GMC full size Sierra pickup with the 5.3 liter flex fuel engine that shuts down 4 cylinders on the highway, with an automatic transmission. The EPA mileage numbers on it are 14/19 which is just about what most 4X4 Taco 4.0 liter owners are getting.
I'm not suggesting that GM (or Toyota) is particularly well run. I mentioned that they were losing money in response to another poster who criticized them for building engines using push rods because they were cheap and easy to put together. Would you prefer more sophisticated and expensive and difficult to put together and that the company either charge more for them, or lose even more money? They may seem like cheap engines to some but they seem to be pretty efficient, at least compared with our Taco 4 liter engines.
........GM trucks are roomier inside and have greater payload capacity than a Taco and they have an engine that produces much more power, yet uses about the same amount of fuel........I also think that Toyota could stand to do some things like making their engines more efficient. If GM can up their mileage by 3 or 4 mpg by shutting down half their cylinders on the highway, why can't Toyota do something similar?
GM full size and Taco's are in different categories. Your roominess comparison should be with the Tundra. As for GM's mileage numbers I see it as another complex gimmick that they already tried once before with the 4-6-8 Cadillac. They only shut down cylinders when you're up and running down the road with a breeze up your butt. 99% of my driving is around town where they suck gas like an aircraft carrier. There are "as high as" and "real world" numbers. I just filled up my Tacoma. I went 299 miles on 13.84 gallons. All around town light to light with some beltway driving a couple of times loaded down with lumber and drywall. Those are real world numbers that I think are pretty good for a midsize truck.
If you want to see real fuel saving technology and superior performance at work look at the N52 engine that's in my 328i.
Sheep. you missed my point entirely. as for your GMC's, we have about eight to ten of these trucks in the fleet where i work. the man who maintains that fleet drives a Toyota. bigger is better does not always apply, even if it is an american creedo. i'm sure if the american public demanded better economy out of our vehicles, Toyota would gladly build you a "flex fuel" vehicle. the american public doesn't WANT to give up that extra legroom or power, hence the new 14mpg Tundra. look on the roads...every day i see some woman driving an excursion or suburban--by herself. we don't THINK we should have to give up size or power in the name of fuel economy, because fuel has always been availible cheaply. ...things are changing, even if most are too blind to see.
and EU healthcare--you win cause i ain't spending anymore time on ya. BUT, try parking your motorcycle unattended & unlocked in a major US city like everyone in Germany does, and see how long before it's gone. if you've traveled abroad in europe, i'm sure you'd have noticed that people aren't self rightious ***-hats like they are here...well, maybe France but they're a bunch of sissys anyway. if you will excuse me, i have to call my health insurance company that thinks my impacted wisdom tooth surgery is cosmetic.
I hope you got some sort of benefit from the rants that have been posted, but I have to say it's all about needs. But in the same breath, the decision on a full or mid size truck is based on one's preception of what is going to fulfil those needs. I've owned/driven trucks my whole life. I love my 07 Taco and will probably get another one if the situation presents itself. I also rent fullsize 4x4 trucks for work on average 3-4 days per month and drive an average of 600km those days. I've driven the big 3 and each have their + and -. What it comes down to for me is that the 4x4 DC Tacoma fits my needs perfectly. I can tow a boat or camper. I can fit dirt bikes/quad in the box and can move pretty much anything I'll ever own. The 4x4 in Alberta is a must. My time is valuable and I personaly don't like to get stranded when it decides to snow 2', melt then freeze hard again over any given weekend in April.
The bottom line is that anyone can justify anything if they want to. $500/ year in extra fuel, or $50 per month more on new truck payments. I'm personally not concerned if someone pulls up beside me with their 8' high Dodge. I'm happy for them if that is what fulfils their needs, whether it be off-road or they just like big trucks.
Re: Why a fullsize?
5'7", no beard at present, take a shower at lest once daily, have a 2WD 4cyl Tacoma, and have owned several 4cyl import trucks over the years, did read on a college level in the 4th-5th grade, but a B/B- student otherwise except math, all my motorcycles have been street legal dual-sports of 350cc or less. On the other side of things I do own a 4WD (New Holland tractor) and have owned 2 Jeeps in the past, (but mostly for the convertible factor), have a turbo diesel BIG truck with a flatbed, have also owned several full size pickups with growling V8's, a reg cab 97.25% full size Tundra with a purrrring V6, and I am in the process of buying my neighbors low mileage pristine condition 73 VW Thing that has a very tough, macho, testosterone laced interior of mostly semi-gloss finished steel panels. With my macho-wimp level muddled so, just where do I fit in?
So you freely admit that YOUR opinion is entirely based in what you see on the network news but yet you're so sure your opinion is right that you belittle those others whom you imagine have as little first hand information as you do??? Has anyone else told you that you're smart enough to "know" or is that something you just dreamt up yourself? Maybe you're not smart at all. If all those other people whom you disagree with are naive because they don't have first hand knowledge, could that same reasoning apply to you?
After all, you've decided that you're "smart enough to know" and that's good enough for you. 
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