Synthetic oil-- yes or no?

[Bakemono]

Im personally not a believer in extended drain intervals. I dont care what some oil manufacturer says, go with what the owner's manual for your vehicle says.
No matter how good an oil is, it still breaks down over time and accumulates dirt, acid, moisture, etc; which isnt stuff that you want inside your engine. Its like they say, "the best oil is the oil that gets changed often".
IMO, anyone who runs their oil 12,000 or 20,000 miles or whatever, is just asking for trouble down the road.

[Tundradrenalin]

Originally Posted by Bakemono

Im personally not a believer in extended drain intervals. I dont care what some oil manufacturer says, go with what the owner's manual for your vehicle says.
No matter how good an oil is, it still breaks down over time and accumulates dirt, acid, moisture, etc; which isnt stuff that you want inside your engine. Its like they say, "the best oil is the oil that gets changed often".
IMO, anyone who runs their oil 12,000 or 20,000 miles or whatever, is just asking for trouble down the road.

I just want to say that the BMW manual and the BMW dealership service team both recommend 12mo/12k oil change intervals for the car I mentioned in the reply above.

[Bakemono]

True and I think Honda recently started saying the same thing.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by dickinsonj

So, how many miles are most people running synthetic going between oil changes?

I have used Mobil 1 since my first oil change, but I am still changing my oil at 5,000 mile intervals. I know I could probably stretch that out, but I don't have any idea how many miles I could go and still not be taking a chance on damaging my engine. I may sell it at 5 years and 60,000 miles, or I may just drive it forever, so I want to take good care of the engine.

Oil change intervals will vary by each person. If you're doing long commutes, it could mean a longer interval. If you're in a very dusty, rough environment, it could be shorter.

Like I've already said in my other post, the only way to determine your OCI (oil change interval) is by sending your oil in to a UOA lab (Used-Oil Analysis). They can tell if your oil is in good shape, and also tell if your engine is in good working order.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by Bakemono

Im personally not a believer in extended drain intervals. I dont care what some oil manufacturer says, go with what the owner's manual for your vehicle says.
No matter how good an oil is, it still breaks down over time and accumulates dirt, acid, moisture, etc; which isnt stuff that you want inside your engine. Its like they say, "the best oil is the oil that gets changed often".
IMO, anyone who runs their oil 12,000 or 20,000 miles or whatever, is just asking for trouble down the road.

All of my Honda's in the past have said 7,500 mile interval and oil filters at every other change. Now, this is on a regular dino oil. No way I'm following that.

As far as intervals, please read my other 2 posts.

BTW, there was a time when 3,000 mile OCI was considered to be too long. Technology changes everything.

[Jasonoff]

Originally Posted by WilsonTheDog

Uninformed. Not only does synthetic provide superior lubrication and contaminant removal, extended oil drains negate the additional cost.

You'd be surprised at how well dino oil has improved.

Unless your truck is a tow pig or has some sort of FI you probably won't generate the heat needed to break conventional oil down enough to warrant the need for synthetic.

Besides who here is planning on keeping their truck past 300k miles anyhow

[p nut]

Originally Posted by Jasonoff

You'd be surprised at how well dino oil has improved.

Unless your truck is a tow pig or has some sort of FI you probably won't generate the heat needed to break conventional oil down enough to warrant the need for synthetic.

Besides who here is planning on keeping their truck past 300k miles anyhow

Not to jump into y'alls conversation, but yes, dino has come a long way. I'm very comfortable with running dino to 5k under normal driving conditions and no UOA. The notion "change your oil every 3k" is just a propoganda by the oil companies and oil service stations to generate more business.

That said, synthetic also has come a long way. The main reason I went with synthetic is, because simply, it's better. Resistence to breakdown, longer OCI's, better lubrication, and resistence to sludge. Synthetic costs me about twice as much as regular dino, but I only have to change it twice as often. Time saved, IMO. Plus, if you ever HAVE to tow, pull, or beat the snot out of your engine, you can be reassured that you are getting superior protection over dino.

I see that you do some HPDE's? Do you run dino in your S2000? I only used synthetic in mine.

[Jasonoff]

Originally Posted by p nut

Not to jump into y'alls conversation, but yes, dino has come a long way. I'm very comfortable with running dino to 5k under normal driving conditions and no UOA. The notion "change your oil every 3k" is just a propoganda by the oil companies and oil service stations to generate more business.

That said, synthetic also has come a long way. The main reason I went with synthetic is, because simply, it's better. Resistence to breakdown, longer OCI's, better lubrication, and resistence to sludge. Synthetic costs me about twice as much as regular dino, but I only have to change it twice as often. Time saved, IMO. Plus, if you ever HAVE to tow, pull, or beat the snot out of your engine, you can be reassured that you are getting superior protection over dino.

I see that you do some HPDE's? Do you run dino in your S2000? I only used synthetic in mine.

I have been running German Castrol 0W30 in mine for 5 years now. I'm thinking of changing over to the ESSO XD-3 Extra 0W40 soon.

I don't really do HPDE any more. Mainly lapping events at various tracks so she see's a bucket load of heat and continuous 7-9K RPM .

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with synthetic BUT if you do your own oil changes, try explaining to the dealership your 12K+ change interval. With that in mind there goes your cost evening SYN over DINO strategy.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by Jasonoff

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with synthetic BUT if you do your own oil changes, try explaining to the dealership your 12K+ change interval. With that in mind there goes your cost evening SYN over DINO strategy.

I am not too clear on what you're trying to say. Can you expound?

BMW intervals are 12k miles, because they use Castrol synthetic. Honda says 5k to 7.5k, because it is dino. Same with Toyota (I believe the Tacoma/Tundras are 5k miles). I use Amsoil and change it usually at 10k-14k miles - roughly two to almost three times the mileage at twice the cost. So I either break even or come out on top, as far as costs go. And better protection, to boot (she sees lots of upper RPM's off-road).

[Jasonoff]

Originally Posted by p nut

I am not too clear on what you're trying to say. Can you expound?

BMW intervals are 12k miles, because they use Castrol synthetic. Honda says 5k to 7.5k, because it is dino. Same with Toyota (I believe the Tacoma/Tundras are 5k miles). I use Amsoil and change it usually at 10k-14k miles - roughly two to almost three times the mileage at twice the cost. So I either break even or come out on top, as far as costs go. And better protection, to boot (she sees lots of upper RPM's off-road).

While your vehicle is in warranty if you change your own oil and go past the recommended change interval specified by the manfacture they can easily void your waranty regardless of what oil you use and its capabilities for longer service life.

So this means you are restricted to the 5k mile interval with or without synthetic = not worth using synthetic while you have factory warranty.

[p nut]

I see what you're saying. But

1) I am well past the 36k mark, and I'm guessing a lot of those here are, as well.

2) I have not heard of a Toyota engine blowing up due to the extended OCI with the synthetics.

3) I'd like to hear of a case where the auto manf. voids someone's warranty due to using synthetic oil and extended OCI. They will be able to clearly see that the engine is spic and span and well taken care of. I don't think Toyota or any other auto maker will win a case like that.

Simple solution to this would be the 5k OCI with dino oil for the first 36k miles then synthetic after.

[mdbrjb]

I use Red Line Oil. 10k to 12k with a filter change at either 5k or 6k. Doesn't cost any more than the M1 I was changing every 5 or 6k.

But boy has it made a difference! On cold mornings (35 degrees in SC) I used to get some piston slap and plenty of other taps and clicks (lifters, etc). Now with the Red Line the only thing you hear is the injectors. Overnight, the M1 wasn't leaving a coating like the Red Line does.

M1 was really thin and after 5k it was really, really thin. The Red Lines seems the same at 10k as when it was put in.

Now I know this isn't very scientific, but less noise and vibration probably means less friction.

Oh, I have 66k now and I did follow the mfg's 5k intervals until the warranty was over.

I started doing it this way at the advice of a "BMW only" garage. Quite a few of his customers have 200k to 300k on their BMWs using this method.

[NATEDAWG3256]

Alot of companies with extended oil change intervals are having sludge problems with the engines, Mercedes, vovlo, audi , Just to name a few. My friend bought a used Audi a6 quatro. It had the 100,000 mile transmission fluid change reccomendation, That fluid that came out looked like crude oil the nastiest stuff i have ever seen. I for one am not a big fan of our transmission not having a dipstick, Not to mention it seems to have a complicated change sequence with requiring a certain temp. to be reached before knowing if you have the correct ammont of fluid in the tranny.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by OSA

If Toyota can prove you didnt follow the owners manual recommendations they have every right to void your warranty and can.... If you dont believe me go pull the following high extended drain oils of the shelf at walmart or autozone and read the back panel of them. Mobile 5000 oil, Mobile 10000 oil, Mobile 15,000 oil.... They all say if you are in the warranty periiod dont try this follow manufactures recommendations only. Thats becasue they dont want to pay for engine damage and get in a lawsuit between you and the manufacturer.

I do not see it the same way. If your engine fails and Toyota cannot prove that the oil was the culprit, how can they have a case against you? They will analyze the oil sample to see if it was doing an adequate job, look for sludge, etc. Then they will probably try to void the warranty anyway, BUT they won't be able to prove the oil caused whatever the problem was! (unless, of course, the oil WAS the problem, but they cannot get you on the OCI). They can kick and scream all they want, but it will not hold up in court, if it even comes to that.

And please provide info on the warranty being voided to an extended OCI.

[p nut]

Originally Posted by OSA

OK I cant resist this comment above.... Unless you have a diesel BMW your dealer is screwing you... he is killing your car..... NO owners manul says 12k for an oil change on a gas vehicle. Also rember in the good old USA we all drive under the term severe driving conditions yes all of us do.... read the owners manual it spells it out.. Hot and cold cimate, stop and go trafic, hills, prolonged ideling etc. Not to mention if...blah blah blah..

"5k max"? Ha ha. Looks like YOU need to do an UOA yourself. I've gone 10k miles on synthetic with the UOA showing good results. My family back east also uses Amsoil and changes it every 10-12k miles. Their cars still run quiet as the day they first drove it off of the lot (actually, even quieter). I can't believe people now-a-days are still SO engrained with the notion of "every 3k miles" that was so popular back in the 60's+. Welcome to 2008 and modern technology. Not only with oil, but oil analysis.

Also, cannot speak for other manuf., but BMW does indeed say 12-15k miles before the recommended oil change. Yes, even here in the US with gas engines. This applies to 318's to M3's. Call up any BMW service center and see what they say.

BTW, Owner's Manual does not say anything about the exact OCI, but that you should follow the oil service indicator and the service booklet.