Question On Lockers / Limited Slip

[Mazatlan]

I know this has come up before but wasn't able to answer my question via a search through old posts. I'm interested in a TRD Sport version which I believe comes with limited slip standard. However I also believer the TRD Offroad version comes with a locker. I actually going to be using this truck for access into some areas that require a combination or all of: Driving down the beach / driving through some healthy mud / driving on some rocky areas. The sand and mud are by far the most predominent issue here.

My question is would someone be kind enough to explain (in a very elementary no technical way), exactly how limited slip and lockers work. In addition could you explain the basic differences and advantages therein. Thanks so much in advance for any help!

[Marazzito]

Hello... Well, I will try to help you out.

A locker does exactly what the name suggests, it locks the differential forcing both rear tires (or front if you have a front locker) to spin at the exact same rate of speed. This helps because when one wheel looses taction in an open dif (no LSD or locker) thats where all the powered is transfered leaving you stranded. Example one tire comes off the ground in the rear, the tire off the ground will spin freely the tire on the ground will not spin at all. With a locker, they will spin at the exact same rate of speed so you will likely have no problems at all.

A Limited Slip does exactly what the name suggests, limits slip. The plus to a limited slip is it is/can always be on even on dry roads and will always provide increased traction. A locker can not be on on a dry road or you will hop around turns and cause excessive damage to the axle and tires quickly. The downfall to a LSD, it doesnt work near as well as a locker off road. If your rear tire comes off the ground and you have a LSD, it may be able to limit slip enough to keep you moving though it will require a lot more throttle and if you have a front tire off the ground to your probably stranded. With a locker even if you have a front and rear tire off the ground you will have one rear tire that still provides full traction and you will likely not get stuck. Another plus to LSD is they provided better traction while driving on snow covered roads where a locker will actually make you fishtail quite a bit there for should not be engaged so it acts like an open dif vehicle in the snow. However if you find your self barried in 3 feet of snow, the locker is going to be your best bet to get you out with out digging.

I went with the TRD Off orad package and though there has only been a few times where I actually needed my locker, I sure was glad I had it.

I hope this helps I tried to simplify it the best I could, I hope I didnt make it to confusing.

[Splicer]

Check this site HowStuffWorks "How Differentials Work", there are links at the bottom of the page for different types of limited-slip and locking diffs. Happy reading!

[Mazatlan]

Originally Posted by Marazzito

Hello... Well, I will try to help you out.

A locker does exactly what the name suggests, it locks the differential forcing both rear tires (or front if you have a front locker) to spin at the exact same rate of speed. This helps because when one wheel looses taction in an open dif (no LSD or locker) thats where all the powered is transfered leaving you stranded. Example one tire comes off the ground in the rear, the tire off the ground will spin freely the tire on the ground will not spin at all. With a locker, they will spin at the exact same rate of speed so you will likely have no problems at all.

A Limited Slip does exactly what the name suggests, limits slip. The plus to a limited slip is it is/can always be on even on dry roads and will always provide increased traction. A locker can not be on on a dry road or you will hop around turns and cause excessive damage to the axle and tires quickly. The downfall to a LSD, it doesnt work near as well as a locker off road. If your rear tire comes off the ground and you have a LSD, it may be able to limit slip enough to keep you moving though it will require a lot more throttle and if you have a front tire off the ground to your probably stranded. With a locker even if you have a front and rear tire off the ground you will have one rear tire that still provides full traction and you will likely not get stuck. Another plus to LSD is they provided better traction while driving on snow covered roads where a locker will actually make you fishtail quite a bit there for should not be engaged so it acts like an open dif vehicle in the snow. However if you find your self barried in 3 feet of snow, the locker is going to be your best bet to get you out with out digging.

I went with the TRD Off orad package and though there has only been a few times where I actually needed my locker, I sure was glad I had it.

I hope this helps I tried to simplify it the best I could, I hope I didnt make it to confusing.

You weren't confusing at all, howver there are some areas I evidently need more knowledge to fully understand. Firstly let me say that after rereading my original post I realize that I didn't make it clear I'm only interested in buying a 4X4. In addition it's very unlikely I'll be driving in any snow. In fact the goal is to take this car to Mexico and leave it there on at least a semi permanent basis. The use is for tropical storm type mud, and moderately to rather lose sand beach driving, with a little big of driving on roads sprinkled with old rounded lava rock. Sorry I should have bee a little clearer on this...however I did enjoy learning about the snow effects of LSD and lockers.

That being said I wasn't quite following the part where you explained what would happend if one back tire was off the ground. I also was confused about why you'd be stranded if you had one front tire off the ground? Why would it make a difference from front to back? Is that because I didn't specify, so we're not taking into account 4X4 drive??

Thanks again for your explanation and my apoligies for not having more background experience to better follow it.

[Mazatlan]

Originally Posted by Splicer

Check this site HowStuffWorks "How Differentials Work", there are links at the bottom of the page for different types of limited-slip and locking diffs. Happy reading!

Very interesting reading Splicer...Thanks!

[demoncleaner]

Originally Posted by Mazatlan

That being said I wasn't quite following the part where you explained what would happend if one back tire was off the ground. I also was confused about why you'd be stranded if you had one front tire off the ground? Why would it make a difference from front to back? Is that because I didn't specify, so we're not taking into account 4X4 drive??

Where the locker shines is if one rear wheel is off the ground, say in gnarly rocks, since the rear axle is locked together, the other wheel with contact will move. An LSD can only transfer a 'limited' amount torque to the traction wheel, not enough to pull it through. If one front wheel is off the ground, any tacoma, the other front will not pull thru because of the open front diff.

In your sand example most times LSD will be fine ripping around, both wheels will be spinning out back. In mud, LSD would help, but in serious muck locker would be better. Remember the locker can only be engaged in 4lo, while the LSD is always 'on'.
I should note, i'm talking 05-08 models. Sport's Mech LSD is gone for 09. All 09's have traction/stability control/Auto-LSD. So only the Off-road still has add'l traction devices, the locker, and now A-trac in 4wd.

[dtacow]

If you are going to be getting an '09, get the Offroad. The '09 Sport no longer comes with the mechanical LSD. The "auto LSD" can be had on the Offroad, I believe, so you should be able to get all available features w/ the Offroad.

[Marazzito]

Originally Posted by Mazatlan

You weren't confusing at all, howver there are some areas I evidently need more knowledge to fully understand. Firstly let me say that after rereading my original post I realize that I didn't make it clear I'm only interested in buying a 4X4. In addition it's very unlikely I'll be driving in any snow. In fact the goal is to take this car to Mexico and leave it there on at least a semi permanent basis. The use is for tropical storm type mud, and moderately to rather lose sand beach driving, with a little big of driving on roads sprinkled with old rounded lava rock. Sorry I should have bee a little clearer on this...however I did enjoy learning about the snow effects of LSD and lockers.

That being said I wasn't quite following the part where you explained what would happend if one back tire was off the ground. I also was confused about why you'd be stranded if you had one front tire off the ground? Why would it make a difference from front to back? Is that because I didn't specify, so we're not taking into account 4X4 drive??

Thanks again for your explanation and my apoligies for not having more background experience to better follow it.

Sorry let me better clarify... assume you have your front driver side tire off the ground and your rear passenger side tire off the ground even if you have four wheel drive the only tires spinning will be the two tires off the ground with an open differential. Now if you have a rear locker you will at least have traction at that one rear will still on the ground (the rear driverside tire), so know you have a chance off getting unstuck.

If you are buying an 09, get the off-road, it offers all the bennifits of the sport since it now has an auto-lsd, plus you get the locker. Also, you really don't want to be left stranded in Mexico and the locker may just save your butt some day.

With either the off-road or the sport, I would recomenned upgrading the tires. The BFG AT's and the Bridgestone REVO AT's would both be a good choice for your application.

I hope that helped a bit.

[Mazatlan]

Originally Posted by dtacow

If you are going to be getting an '09, get the Offroad. The '09 Sport no longer comes with the mechanical LSD. The "auto LSD" can be had on the Offroad, I believe, so you should be able to get all available features w/ the Offroad.

Thanks for the info dta, but I've been looking at a new 08 with the $1,500. rebate. I really like the look of the Sport with the one color / no chrome look. Thankfully it has the LSD, but I think they have an Offroad model left too.

[Mazatlan]

Originally Posted by Marazzito

Sorry let me better clarify... assume you have your front driver side tire off the ground and your rear passenger side tire off the ground even if you have four wheel drive the only tires spinning will be the two tires off the ground with an open differential. Now if you have a rear locker you will at least have traction at that one rear will still on the ground (the rear driverside tire), so know you have a chance off getting unstuck.

If you are buying an 09, get the off-road, it offers all the bennifits of the sport since it now has an auto-lsd, plus you get the locker. Also, you really don't want to be left stranded in Mexico and the locker may just save your butt some day.

With either the off-road or the sport, I would recomenned upgrading the tires. The BFG AT's and the Bridgestone REVO AT's would both be a good choice for your application.

I hope that helped a bit.

I helped a great deal, and thanks mucho for the info. Based on the info kindly provided I'm probably going to go with the 08' Sport with the LSD. I like the all paint look much more, and the rebate really helps. I have been stuck in Mexico, and it's not fun hiking out to find help. However that was with 2WD, and subsequent trips have been in a older design Tacoma, and a T-100 both with 4WD.

While there have been a couple of somewhat nervous moments, we've never been stuck since. I'd hate like hell to be stuck again, however I'm going to gamble on the non locker. This because the help offered here in this thread helps me realize it's extremely unlikely I would end up in the position described where you've got multiple whells off the ground. Keep in mind I've traveled these same roads many, many times now. The trade off for 1% or less risk, is having the model look I prefer 100% of the time.

On the tires I've already been looking at them, and don't think the Revo is going to work for the soupy type of mud I'll be dealing with. The AT AKO will work since the T-100 Y old style Tacoma both had the previous generation design BFG AT. A friend had another T-100 with BFG MT's and it worked on the road better than I would have thought. I'm seriously considering buying mud tires, driving on the street tires down there, then having a local tire store put the muds on while it's in Mexico (I've may be leaving the Tacoma there for months at a time).
Again thanks everyone for the help and advice!