Wheel adapter dilema

[keninsb]

I recently changed my tire and wheel package (285/75 R16 to the new 270/55 R18). I did not realize exactly how much smaller the new tires were going to be and was really disappointed with the look. But the new tires do ride incredibly smooth compared to my old larger A/Ts.

So I did a bunch of research and decided to get some wheel adapters to widen the stance a little. I went to a source recommended by other TSers here on the site, and purchased 1 1/4" adapters for the front and 1 1/2" for the rear, both sets hub and wheel centric.

First I was surprised to see the installer using an air gun. I figured he would just use them to remove the lugs and then use a torque wrench to torque everything down afterward. He ended up just using the air gun.

So then I start down the road home, and notice a lot of steering wheel shimmy at 55 to 65 mph. I go back to the adapter place and they say that that suspect that the lugs were just tightened in the wrong sequence or to the wrong torque The tech takes the wheel off, checks to make sure its the correct adapter, checks the measurement on the wheel hub to the wheel and starts wrenching everything back on. This time he uses the air gun and then uses a breaker bar to torque them down He finally breaks off one of the wheel studs

The owner comes out and starts to check the wheel "torque" himself. He advises me that he has been doing this long enough and that he doesn't need a torque wrench, he can do it "by feel". Then he tells me that it is the Tundra, that in fact, Toyota makes the wheel studs "too short" so the acorn nuts they use to mount the adapter to the hub cannot get a good bite on the studs.

So he gives me some "free" wheel studs and tells me that I will have to take my truck to Toyota to have the broken stud repaired and have the longer studs installed and then he sends me on my way again and tells me to call if I am still getting the vibration. Of course it still does.

I have these studs that he gave me and they are about 2" long (that the lenght of usable thread, the overall length is closer to 2 1/2"). I am afraid that if I install these, that if I ever take the adapters off, that they will be WAY too long to use with the OEM lug nuts.

OK, so will all of this stuff in mind, I have to seek some advice. For example:

1. Should I install longer studs, but say more like a quarter inch longer than stock?
2. I am confident that the torque is NOT the problem (maybe I am way off base here), should I have him send me another set of front adapters?
3. Should I scrap the project and just invest in larger tires?

I know that there is another argument against wheel spacers altogether, and hate to start a new debate, but would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

Ken

[Mazutoytundra]

why are they using acorn nuts to mount the wheel adaptor to the wheel hub? Most manufacturers of wheel adaptors provide open-ended acorn nuts so it doesn't matter how long or short your studs are.

I would love to see that guy torque my wheels to 83.5 ft-lbs without a torque wrench.

I honestly can't feel a difference from 80-83.5 ft lbs. The only way I know is when my torque wrench "clicks".

In other words that shop you went to doesn't have any sense in pride for their workmanship. I would never take my truck to a shop that uses a breaker bar as a torque wrench. Which is why I do everything I can on my truck besides giving it an alignment.

[keninsb]

The acorn nuts they used are open-ended (I didn't know there was another kind). But the stud issue is this: The stock studs are too short (the acorn nuts don't thread on all of the way), and if I put in longer studs they may protrude out past the wheel adapters and hit the wheel (so that the wheel cannot sit flush against the adapter).

You are right on the torque issue. I checked the torque on the lug nuts and they were torqued to 120 foot pounds!! The acorn nuts were torqued somewhere around 70.

Ken

[Salty_Dog]

Originally Posted by keninsb

The acorn nuts they used are open-ended (I didn't know there was another kind). But the stud issue is this: The stock studs are too short (the acorn nuts don't thread on all of the way), and if I put in longer studs they may protrude out past the wheel adapters and hit the wheel (so that the wheel cannot sit flush against the adapter).

You are right on the torque issue. I checked the torque on the lug nuts and they were torqued to 120 foot pounds!! The acorn nuts were torqued somewhere around 70.

Ken

Who were these Bozos, anyway? And where did you get the adapters?

[keninsb]

I got the adapters at WheelAdapters.com. They came very highly recommended. They were very nice and did say that they would work it out for me. This has just been a very dissapointing and frustrating experience and MUCH more work that I had anticipated.

Ken

[Mazutoytundra]

So the guys at wheeladaptors.com also did the install? That's what it's sounding like to me.


The wheel adaptors I got from Marlin Crawler came with open ended nuts and they threaded fine onto my stock studs. Maybe they need to machine the hole for the nuts a little deeper to allow for full thread engangement.


BTW it only took me 30 minutes to install my wheel adaptors from start to finish. Plus I torqued everything to spec. Dude you should have come to my house to install your adaptors.

[keninsb]

Originally Posted by Mazutoytundra

So the guys at wheeladaptors.com also did the install? That's what it's sounding like to me.


The wheel adaptors I got from Marlin Crawler came with open ended nuts and they threaded fine onto my stock studs. Maybe they need to machine the hole for the nuts a little deeper to allow for full thread engangement.


BTW it only took me 30 minutes to install my wheel adaptors from start to finish. Plus I torqued everything to spec. Dude you should have come to my house to install your adaptors.

Yep, the guys at wheeladapters.com did do the install. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the adapters needed to be machined a little deeper to allow the nut to bite the stud better.
Where your adapers hub & wheel centric? Did you notice any additional vibration after the install?

The install wasn't the hard part. It is kind of like making my truck fit the adapters rather than visa-versa. I do however have a rather large brake project looming...
too bad you live so far away

[keninsb]

OK, finally got everything buttoned up.
I replaced the passenger side adapter with a new one that Fred had sent me yesterday. I had to break the project into two days for health reasons. I drove the truck after the swap-out and it vibrated as bad as ever.
Friday I replaced the broken stud on the driver's side hub. That was much harder than I had anticipated. In the past I had just put a socket or small piece of pipe over the head of the stud and use a C-Clamp to force the stud through the hole. I broke a 3" and a 4" C-Clamp and was really starting to worry. The I tried a 5" C-Clamp and that did the job. Installing the new stud was easy. Just put the new stud through the hole, install a couple of flat washers on it and a lug nut and tighten the lug nut until the new stud is pulled into place.
Then I installed the new adaper on the driver's side. The tolerances are so tight that any small amount of rust on the hub makes the adapter hard to slide into place. I used some Liquid Wrench on a rag to wipe off the rust on the hub, and that was just enugh to allow the adapter to slide into place. Then the adapter and the wheel was torqued down to spec.
I was AMAZED but the vibration was gone. So the cause of the vibration must have been a defective adapter. At any rate the problems are fixed.
I have to give Fred Kudos. He did everything he could to fix this problem and make me happy. And he did it FAST.
So when all is said and done, I am now happy with the outcome and would defnitely recommend Fred for wheel adapters.
Ken

[KNABORES]

I've posted this response before about the proper lug nuts to use with the adapters. See my pics, there is a picture of the proper lugs to use with the toyota tundra. Deep shank lugs to engage all the thread on the stud. My wheel shop wouldnt install the adapters without them.

[Mazutoytundra]

The lug nuts you are referring to is for the actual wheel. But the lug nuts for the wheel adapter are open ended so you wouldn't need a deep shank at all. I also measured the stud on the wheel adapter and it is about 1/4" longer in comparision to the Toyota studs.


But if you are installing wheels without using wheel adapters, then yes you should get the deep shank lug nuts.

[keninsb]

Yeah I am not sure if the deep shank lugs would work with the spacer. The lug nut would protrude out too far and would hit the wheel (not allowing the wheel to seat properly against the spacer). I wish that there were some of that type of nut that would fit, but it would require a redesign of the spacer.
The open ended acorn nuts that I am using only have between 1/16" and 1/8" of the thread showing on the inside of the nuts after they have been torqued down. So a little over 5/8" is "engaged" with the stud. That should be safe, right?

Ken

[Tundradrenalin]

Hey Ken,
How do you torque down the acorns of the adapters without spinning the hub every time you go to tighten them? Any tips, tricks, or general knowledge that I'm just not using?
Thanks.

[Salty_Dog]

Originally Posted by Tundrenaline

Hey Ken,
How do you torque down the acorns of the adapters without spinning the hub every time you go to tighten them? Any tips, tricks, or general knowledge that I'm just not using?
Thanks.

I used an impact wrench and a torque stick. No problem.

[keninsb]

Originally Posted by Tundrenaline

Hey Ken,
How do you torque down the acorns of the adapters without spinning the hub every time you go to tighten them? Any tips, tricks, or general knowledge that I'm just not using?
Thanks.

Yeah, I learned the tip from Fred. You have someone step on the brake OR do like I did and use a stick to depress and hold the brake pedal down, and then torque the nuts down. It worked fine for me.
Hope this helps.
Ken

[Tundradrenalin]

Use the brakes, good deal. Thanks.