I've had vibration since day one from 30mph to 70+mph. These are my attempts and results to rectify the problem.
1) Had dealer rebalance all wheels.----------Vibration was different but still there.
2) Went to different dealer and switched wheels and tires. Felt 90% better but still felt some vibes at lower speeds. They sent my wheels to get Road Force Balanced. Said one of the Dunlops was not in spec so they replaced that one. They tried adjusting carrier bearing.---------------Vibes worse than ever.
3) Back at original dealer. They said that the truck was not this bad before. They reset the carrier bearing and shimmed the driveshaft as per Toyota Tech, rebalanced the tires.--------Truck now feels like it did when I bought it. Same vibes.
4) Thinking back to the wheels and tires that I sampled that one time I figure a different set of tires should take care of it. Off come the Dunlops and on go the Goodyears (same wheels). They let me watch when they spun balanced the wheels. I noticed that 3 wheels appeared to be slightly out of round.---------------These tires have a softer ride but I still have the vibes.
5) Originally I planned to get nicer wheels so I think now might be the time. Looking for assurance I think I will pay to have my current wheels once again Road Force Balanced so they can assure me that my problem is with my WHEELS. ----------------They now tell me that I have 4 brand new DEFECTIVE tires according to the RF balancer!
6) So back to Sears I go to show them my computer readout of the Goodyears they sold me. They are VERY sceptical that I would have been that unlucky to get all 4 defective. Makes you wonder where to put your faith and who to believe.
7) I've got an appointment at Sears at 8:00, Monday morning to have their best guy dive into this mess and make some sense about it.
I'm desperately searching for someone that truly knows what the hell they are talking about----is there anybody out there that can make sense of any of this?
Yup, I can. I was one of the designers of the GSP9700 road force balancer.
You can indeed get four defective tires at once, because lots of tire manufacturers are more proud of their prices than they are of their tires. If the GSP9700 said you have tires with very high road force values, you can believe it.
There is no substitute for good tires. I suggest getting rid of the Goodyears and getting some Michelins. I buy only Michelin for my vehicles. I have LTX M/S in 165/70R16 on both a '00 Tundra and a '01 Sequoia. I'm VERY pleased with them and both vehicles have no vibration problems at all.
Hi DJ-----You might have been the first guy to tell me about the balancer. Logically speaking though, I have had 2 sets of tires on this truck and the viration that I feel is VERY similar if not identical with both sets. That makes me think my problem must be somewhere else.
I mentioned the balancer to the guy at Sears and he didn't seem to give it much merit.
I've been fighting with Toyota for awile now so do I now fight with Goodyear or Sears? Will Goodyear acknowledge this balancer? Do I have a leg to stand on or will they just say that the balancer that Sears used was adequate enough?
The reason I went with Goodyear was because they own Dunlop. They gave me full credit for the Dunlops toward either Dunlop or Goodyear tires. It cost me $139.00 for the swap. I originally wanted to get Michelins but that would have cost me about $700.00.
What do you think?-------------Tom
Originally posted by CYCLONE 123 Hi DJ-----You might have been the first guy to tell me about the balancer. Logically speaking though, I have had 2 sets of tires on this truck and the viration that I feel is VERY similar if not identical with both sets. That makes me think my problem must be somewhere else.
I mentioned the balancer to the guy at Sears and he didn't seem to give it much merit.
I've been fighting with Toyota for awile now so do I now fight with Goodyear or Sears? Will Goodyear acknowledge this balancer? Do I have a leg to stand on or will they just say that the balancer that Sears used was adequate enough?
The reason I went with Goodyear was because they own Dunlop. They gave me full credit for the Dunlops toward either Dunlop or Goodyear tires. It cost me $139.00 for the swap. I originally wanted to get Michelins but that would have cost me about $700.00.
What do you think?-------------Tom
I responded by your PM, but here is the gist of it for everyone else.
Usually, both a wheel and a tire have "runout", meaning that the wheel is not perfectly round where the tire mates to it and the tire is not round either. The GSP9700 measures the runout of the wheel and the runout of the tire, with the tire being loaded by up to 1400 pounds by a roller that presses against it. It thus measures "how round is it while rolling under load". It then directs the operator to mate the tire to the wheel such that the highest part of the tire runout is located at the lowest part of the wheel runout. This allows the wheel runout to "compensate" somewhat for the tire runout.
This is exactly how tires and wheels are mated at the vehicle manufacturing plant, except that the machines which do it are automated and cost perhaps $250,000 each.
However, Toyota wheels, especially their alloy wheels, are VERY round. Mine measure about 0.002" of runout maximum, which isn't enough to compensate for tires with a lot of runout. It sounds a bit odd, but the better your wheels are, the less effective a round force balance will be, given that you have very bad tires. The ONLY cure is good tires.
Over the years, I have learned to follow this maxim: "The bitterness of poor quality lasts longer than the pleasure of a low price." That's what's biting you now. Unfortunately, the only cure is more money. If I were you, I'd bite the wallet and buy some Michelins. I don't think there is any other cure for your problem.
Hi DJ-----I'm really going to try to get myself into the Michelins with the hope that this 3 1/2 month battle can come to an end. It's been a series of having hope only to be let down multiple times. If I manage to get the Michelins and find I still have my vibration problem I could find myself looking for the nearest, tallest bridge!
One thing that I'm struggling with is that I've been driving now for about 36 years and have owned many cars and 5 trucks, and until 3 years ago (a Dunlop problem), I never had any tire or balancing issues. All of a sudden since I bought the Tundra, the only tire that doesn't seem to be scrap is the Michelin. The only form of balancing is the GSP9700. I remember the old BUBBLE balancers and even they seem to work with some success.
Sometimes I wonder about todays technology. One step forward, two steps back kind of a thing.
If Goodyear won't give me a credit back, I could find myself trying to sell a brand new set of Goodyear Wrangler RTS while trying to find out how to pay for the Michelins!
ANYBODY OUT THERE WANT TO BUY A NICE SET OF GOODYEARS?
Hey CYCLONE 123
I am having the same issue. All I have been getting from the dealer is that the tires need balancing. That would be 3 time within 7 months. I don't have the alloy rims. Anywho, the dealership said that the outside weights that are on the rims tend to shift? or fall off? Personally that doesn't sound that good. Well, keep us posted on your venture with the Michelins. If that fixes it, then looks like my plans on getting new tires and rims will be bumped up.
Ray
Originally posted by toynut Hey CYCLONE 123
I am having the same issue. All I have been getting from the dealer is that the tires need balancing. That would be 3 time within 7 months. I don't have the alloy rims. Anywho, the dealership said that the outside weights that are on the rims tend to shift? or fall off? Personally that doesn't sound that good. Well, keep us posted on your venture with the Michelins. If that fixes it, then looks like my plans on getting new tires and rims will be bumped up.
Ray
The outside weights on the stock alloy wheels do tend to fall off. After trying many different aproaches to the problem I have resorted to adding a dab of 3M weather stripping adheasive to the inside of the weight and then letting the truck sit for about six hours waiting for the glue to cure. One drawback is the weights are hard to get off so only use a small amount of glue.
I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT, but after 4 months of multiple efforts by 2 dealers and 3 tire shops to get rid of my vibration----it's about 99% GONE! I tried a local Buick dealer that had the GSP 9700 and when I got it back the road force variances were 40lbs, 40lbs, 78lbs, and 100lbs. When I drove the truck away it was much worse than when it went in.
I then began fighting with Goodyear telling them that I had 4 defective brand new tires. A Goodyear rep called me (nice guy) and suggested to take it to another place that had the GSP9700 and have the tires rebalanced at their expense.
Well now the road force variances are 1lb, 7lb, 7lb, and 14lb. I had my usual 40 mile drive home after the work was done and it was the first time since I bought the Tundra that I had no vibration! I still have a stiff ride but it's a lot more tolerable without the vibes. I'm going to put a fiberglass toneau cover on it (approx. 150 lbs.) and I have a hitch (60 lbs). The thing about this truck is the more weight that is in it the better it rides. I'm hoping that the warmer weather will take out some of the stiffness also.
Someday I'll get the Michelins, but for now it's not bad and my money needs to go other places.
Originally posted by CYCLONE 123 I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT, but after 4 months of multiple efforts by 2 dealers and 3 tire shops to get rid of my vibration----it's about 99% GONE! I tried a local Buick dealer that had the GSP 9700 and when I got it back the road force variances were 40lbs, 40lbs, 78lbs, and 100lbs. When I drove the truck away it was much worse than when it went in.
A Goodyear rep called me (nice guy) and suggested to take it to another place that had the GSP9700 and have the tires rebalanced at their expense. Well now the road force variances are 1lb, 7lb, 7lb, and 14lb.
The thing about this truck is the more weight that is in it the better it rides.
Cyclone:
May I be so bold as to ask how much you paid the Buick dealer to screw up your tires? The going rate around here is $7.50 a tire
for road force balancing.
Do you have a computer printout indicating both results? If so, why not take both to the owner of that dealership and demand a refund? I sure as heck would.
I agree -- I have a hitch plus I haul a couple 60 pound tubes of sand in the back of the bed all the time. This greatly improves the ride and rear end traction.
Hi Herb, this is the continuing saga of the Tundra vibration!
The day I drove the truck back from the last balance effort I was a happy guy. The next day I went to the Buick dealer and explained how they screwed up my truck and asked for a refund ($39.95). They made a copy of my receipt and said they would send a refund check to me when my check cleared their system. I haven't seen it yet but I don't think there will be a problem.
Well, I drove the truck all weekend and put about 500 miles on it. The more I drove it the more it seemed like the vibration was coming back! I'M DISCOURAGED AGAIN. So Tuesday I call up the good balance place again and asked them if they would check the balance again. They said no problem and I took it back in.
They check all wheels and find that all of them had gone out of balance anywhere from 1/2oz. to 1 3/4oz. Then they marked a line from the rim, over a weight, and on to the tire and went out and put about 25 miles on the truck. They call me and tell me they figured out my problem. The tires are moving on the rims! It was only about an 1/8" but that was only 25 miles. If you do the math it's only a matter of time before you lose not only the balance but the positioning of the tire on the rim.
So where does this all go-----the dealer could order me new rims but they would just be like the ones I already have. What's the chances that they would also have the same problem? I am planing on getting new aftermarket rims and Michelin tires but I need to be sure that my vibration problem is in my wheels and tires and not the truck! I'm going to ask the dealer if they could take a different set of wheels and tires from another truck in the lot and put them on my truck. That way if the problem goes away I will at least know that the vibes aren't being generated by my truck.
I thought buying a new vehicle was supposed to be fun, other than going back in dept. I don't think I've enjoyed this truck one day since I bought it. VERY FRUSTRATING!
BTW, the cost of road force balancing at the Goodyear place was $15.00 per wheel. Goodyear picked up that tab 'cause they thought they might have to replace 4 defective tires which the Buick dealer claimed I had.
I'll be glad when this winter weather breaks so I can go for a motorcycle ride and forget about this stuff for a while.
Thanks for the really good information. Question: What is the maximum inflation pressure indicated on the sidewall of your tires and what was the inflation pressure of the tires when slippage occured?
When I swapped the Dunlops out for a set of Bridgestone tires,
I worked with the tire tech in mounting and balancing all the tires. I noticed that there was a heavy coat of paint on the rims in the bead area. It could be that all you have to do is hit those surfaces with a wire brush and remove the paint. That's what we did.
The Bridgestone tires have a max inflation pressure of 44 psi.
I run them at 35 psi front and rear which is 80% of max. The ride is good and the contact patch area is adequate. The Bridgestone tires have turned out to be infinitely better than the Dunlops in every way.
The tire dealer, who has years of experience reshoeing both domestic and import pickups, suggested I run the tires at max pressure to ensure they don't slip on the rims or suffer edge wear. It seems that Toyota wheels are notorious for tire slippage.
After 2,000 miles and one panic stop that locked up all 4 wheels, I see no evidence of slippage or a change in balance. Everything is just as it was -- smooth as silk.
I approach the purchase of a new car or truck with equal reluctance. From my perspective, it isn't much different than being led in chains up the steps of a gallows.
Cyclone, I long for the days of bubble-balanced, Firestone 500 bias-ply tires that didn't vibrate. I can't help but wonder why a $10,000 wheel balancer is required to get us back to where we used to be. There's something fundamentally wrong with this picture. Driving used to be fun. Now it amounts to a protracted diagnostic testing session.
I want to mention that it took me a while to find a tire dealer who would be give me anything at all for 4 new Dunlop tires. They were all willing to take them off my hands provided I paid the disposal fee. I must say -- this was not very comforting. I finally found a small independent tire/repair shop who offered me $60 a tire on a trade for the new Bridgestones. That was an offer I couldn't refuse. So, if you've a mind to ditch what you have, talk trade with a number of different independent dealers who deal in new and used tires and don't give up. There is somebody out there who will give you a good deal on a new set of tires.
I don't really know what the maximum pressure on the Goodyears is, but I run 26lbs. in the front and 29lbs in the back. If I could get away with running 10lbs in all the tires I would. This truck is very stiff in it's ride quality. From what I hear the Michelins are the best riding tire so that's why I want to get them. The Goodyears were fine on my previous F-150 but do to the advanced technology of the Tundra I need to go with the best tire and the best balancing technology that is known to mankind to try to settle this thing down! Do I sound bitter?
I've heard alot of good things about Bridgestones too. I'm definately not an expert on tires, but I've got a feeling before this is over that I just might be. I figure that if I get the Michelins, I will be able to direct my efforts in other directions and not have to think, "I shoulda got them damn Michelins".
I'll keep that idea of scuffing up the rims in mind if I keep using these steel wheels. Thanks for the tip.
BTW------I'm assuming that you also have the styled steel wheels?
Tires slipping on the rims can happen if the wrong kind of lube is used when mounting the tires. The best lube is "organic" and actually made from lard. Put it on liberally so the bead seats properly. After that, it literally is absorbed by the tire and the tire won't slip.
If they are still using soap suds, go scream at them -- that's cheap, but it slips.
Incidentally, I run Michelin LTX M/S in 265/70R16 at 33-34 psi on both my Tundra and my wife's Sequoia. It's a VERY smooth ride, and the tires don't slip on the Toyota alloy wheels.
Glad to know you're still here. I have a question. I intend to have a shop align the front end of my 4x4 to your specs. on a Hunter 611. Shop personnel have never aligned a Tundra and they are a bit different. I have the shop manual and have pretty much figured out how to do this myself, while the tech looks on, if it comes to that.
I notice that the heads on the adjustment bolts are about 1/2 normal thickness and must be tightened to 96 foot-pounds following adjustment of the eccentric cams. How in the world do you get on those bolt heads with a 22mm socket and a torque wrench with the rack boot in the way? My thinking is that it may be necessary to remove the clamp on the small end of the boot and compress the boot until it's no longer an obstacle, providing that's possible. Is this the correct way to do it or would it be just as acceptable to work with a box end wrench and pull the bolt up as tight as possible by hand while leaving the boot alone?
Wheel/tire Vibration?
Linear Mode
