Michelin LTX M/s vs Nokian Vatiiva

[delsoft]

I am having a hard time finding replacement tires for my Sequoia. My top three choices (BFG AT KO, Bridgestone AT Revo, Yokohama H/T-S) are impossible to locate. The majority of my use is onroad, but I occasionally travel down forest service roads (some pretty steep and rocky) for fishing. I also tow a medium size travel trailer (5000 lbs). A few times a year we venture into the mountains for some snow skiing, so snow traction is a consideration. My first choice was the BF Goodrich All-Terrain AT KO because it comes in a loadrange C for the standard size (265/70R16). All other tires in this size are a P series (B loadrange). I was looking for the LT rather than the P for the additional capacity and I assume durability. I really don’t need and aggressive tread, because I don’t really encounter a lot of deep mud. Is there any issues running a LT265/75R16 on this vehicle? I also looked at both the Yokohama Geolander H/T-S and the Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo. I did find a set of Revos in the 75 size, but they wanted $800+ for them. So it looks like I am down to Michelin LTX M/S or Nokian. The Nokian WR in 265/70x16 is a 114H rated tire and the load range is more in the C range(2601lbs) (even though it is a passenger rating). I am concerned that this tire would be too soft for trailer towing and the offroad that I do. Has anyone had any experience with the Nokian Vatiiva? It appears to be a little more of an all-terrain tire and does come in a C range for 265/75R16. If I go with the Michelin LTX M/S, I’ll probably go with the 265/75 in order to get the load range C rather than the P265/70. Comments/suggestions?

[SATundra]

Well personally I can recommend the Michelin LTX M/S, ive got the LT 265/75 as well in load range C. These are without a doubt the BEST tires I have ever owned. Been great in snow, rain and dry roads. I dont do any offroad stuff so cant comment on that aspect. I have had them on for just over a year now and have put 23k on them. They still look brand new. You will notice that the sidewalls are a little stiffer (hence the LT) but not bad at all. Not sure what the speed rating is but I had mine at 110 before no problem. If you must have that car feeling then you might try the P (passenger) instead of the LT.

Dont think you will hear much bad about the Michelins from anybody around here. Sorry have no experience with the Nokians. The only other tire I "might" put on this truck would be the Michelin Cross Terrains. Supposed to be a little better riding (softer) but wont last quit as long as the M/S.

[DJ]

I have Michelin LTX M/S in 265/70R16 on an '00 Tundra (33,xxx miles) and an '01 Sequoia (22,xxx miles). In 35 years of driving, they are the best tires I've ever had.

I live "off-road" in that the roads around here resemble Afghanistan. There are only three paved roads in the whole town -- the rest are dirt, mud, sand, or gravel, and they are covered with snow from November to April. They don't slip, slide, or give any problems of any kind. They are a FABULOUS rain tire.

I also travel a lot. In fact, I finished a 515 mile trip about two hours ago. They are a FABULOUS road tire, also.

Among my travels, I went deer hunting in Missouri in early December. It snowed about 10 inches during the first two hours of the season. The Tundra went MILES off-road in more than a foot of snow, across fields of cut corn, soybeans, and winter wheat, and never gave the slightest problem.

Finally, I've seen literally thousands of tires on wheel balancers and wheel aligners. I won't buy any tire except Michelins.

But, it's your money.

[Invid]

I've read many posts in this forum regarding how people prefer the Michelin LTX M/S tire. My question is how's the road noise since the rubber is harder than the OEM and since the sidewall is stiffer does that equate to a rougher ride as well?

[SATundra]

Originally Posted by Invid

I've read many posts in this forum regarding how people prefer the Michelin LTX M/S tire. My question is how's the road noise since the rubber is harder than the OEM and since the sidewall is stiffer does that equate to a rougher ride as well?

NO noise, completely quiet, I think quiter than the stock tires. They are a little stiffer but then again they are an "LT" tire and have a load range "C" too.

[Invid]

Well that's good to hear I like quiet tires. One last question, since the rubber is harder does that make it slide more on turns especially when it rains, and I don't mean taking corners fast either. Thanks for the reply btw.

[Dogster]

I've bben lloking at the BFG and Revos but not the Michelin LTX because I want a true all terrain. Costco currently has $60 off on a set of four tires in Goodrich, Bridgestone or Michelin. They have the lowest prices I've found, although they can't get the 265-70 right now in the BFG. Discount Tire also told me they would match Costco and have $60 off on the BFG also.

[DJ]

Originally Posted by Invid

I've read many posts in this forum regarding how people prefer the Michelin LTX M/S tire. My question is how's the road noise since the rubber is harder than the OEM and since the sidewall is stiffer does that equate to a rougher ride as well?

It's QUIET. Really.

Tire noise is much more a function of the design of the treads than it is of the hardness of the rubber. That being said, if two tires were identical in all respects except for the hardness of the rubber, the tire with the harder rubber would be louder.

If a tire has "mud lugs", which is what I call lugs that are discrete, meaning each is fully surrounded by a groove and thus separated from its neighbors, it will be a loud tire regardless of the hardness of the rubber. The footprint of the tire is flat on the road, so, as each lug comes around the front to become part of the footprint, it slams onto the surface of the road. You hear the noise made by the leading edge of the lug hitting the road.

If a tire has a more or less "continuous" surface, meaning that lugs are connected to their neighbors by rubber, there is less "leading edge" on each lug to hit the road, so there is less noise.

The LTX M/S is a very good example of the latter design. It is a compromise, but a very good one. It performs extremely well in the muck and snow that I drive through, but it is marvelously quiet on the road.

[Invid]

Good responses on this thread. I think I will have to try the Michelin LTX M/S tire when it comes time to change mine. I'm about 10K miles away which really isn't that far away. I love this forum sometimes

[Dogster]

I found a review on the Michelin LTX M&S in the Nov. 2001 Consumer Reports, pgs. 61-65. They actually rated the LTX M&S 5th behind Toyo, BFG, Bridgestone and Yokohoma. Too bad they didn't test the BFG All Terrain.

[akauth]

Originally Posted by Invid

Well that's good to hear I like quiet tires. One last question, since the rubber is harder does that make it slide more on turns especially when it rains, and I don't mean taking corners fast either. Thanks for the reply btw.

If you drive conservatively on the Michelins (no fast corners, not fast stops, not full throttle takeoffs) they'll perform well in the rain and *many* people swear by them that drive exactly that way. And for them it is a *great* tires.

But if you push them pretty hard, when they break loose it's kind of unnerving (like on a freeway exit/entrance ramp). They work great up to a point, but if you pass that point regularly you start to really hate the tires even if they do last forever.


Alan

[hsvhobbit]

I'd like to hear more about this performance in the wet. I'm alittle concerned that what i'm hearing is that these Michelins do well right up to their breakaway point and then are totally GONE. I really prefer my tires to have a more gradual breakaway with some controlled traction beyond that point. Could you fellas clarify this behavior some for me. Specifically, how easy is it to control these tires after they breakaway in wet weather?

[akauth]

Originally Posted by hsvhobbit

I'd like to hear more about this performance in the wet. I'm alittle concerned that what i'm hearing is that these Michelins do well right up to their breakaway point and then are totally GONE. I really prefer my tires to have a more gradual breakaway with some controlled traction beyond that point. Could you fellas clarify this behavior some for me. Specifically, how easy is it to control these tires after they breakaway in wet weather?

It's not hard if you respond quickly (lay off the gas, lighten up on the brakes). But it you lose lateral traction (like in a turn) there might not be much you can do.

Alan

[sdmahr]

After reading this thread, I went this morning and bought 4 new Michelin LTX's. The drive from the tire store to work was good. They seemed to be quiet and ride just as good if not better than the original BFG's.

Snow predicted today/tonight. Guess I'll get to see what the "powder traction" is like !

Thanks to all who participated in this thread. It helped me narrow down the incredible vast array of choices, (God Bless America !).

Scott

[SATundra]

Originally Posted by sdmahr

After reading this thread, I went this morning and bought 4 new Michelin LTX's. The drive from the tire store to work was good. They seemed to be quiet and ride just as good if not better than the original BFG's.

Snow predicted today/tonight. Guess I'll get to see what the "powder traction" is like !

Thanks to all who participated in this thread. It helped me narrow down the incredible vast array of choices, (God Bless America !).

Scott

You made a good choice, let us know what you think.