Nitrogen VS Oxygen (filled tires)

[Rlockyer]

Originally Posted by rx7vert

Ah. Nice to hear a technical side. I am just repeating what I have heard from some of the race teams I have talked to. The guy that manages the cars variables, including tire pressure, said that they saw less variation in pressure with tire temperature with nitrogen than with regular air.

It may have been the track conditions that they were testing on were giving substandard results.

Ya, there are too many variables to pin the fault on any one thing unless they have multiple sets of tires and are doing runs one after another.

Like I said... it's not a bad thing, and for certain applications, may be better, but it's nothing that we are going to notice on a personal vehicle.

Running the basic numbers, to get a change of 8psi, you need a temperature change of nearly 130^f
NASCAR will encounter changes that extreme.

[RoundOut]

Originally Posted by Rlockyer

Pick up a Genesis, Asahi, or PST HP 120... 3500psi and only 5 pounds heavier (empty) than the AL80. Full, it's closer to 10 pounds heavier, but it's 50% more air

If I was still diving, or when I start again, I may do that. I have two AL 80's and have had them hydro'd once and fill them less than once a year, so each time I have to get them vis'd again, too. Kinda sucks. Maybe I should go ahead and get a compressor.

[RoundTuit]

Originally Posted by Rlockyer

The primary reason nitrogen is used by the military is because it is inert.

If nitrogen is inert, where does nitrous oxide, amonium nitrate and nitric acid come from? I thought the inert elements were Group 0, nitrogen is Group V.

Just wondering, I'm not a chemist.

[RoundOut]

I am no chemist either, but nitrogen is an element and nitrous oxide (NO2), amonium nitrate (NH4NO3) and nitric acid (HNO3) are molecules of multiple elements. The common threads among the three molecules you list is that they each have multiple bonds with oxygen atoms and cause rapid oxidation, or are oxidizing agents. Explosions, fire and rust are each forms of oxidation. One occurs nearly instantly (explosion), one rapidly (fire), and rust occurs more slowly over time.

For nitrous oxide, I presume that it helps combustion because there are more oxygen atoms in the nitrous oxide (two oxygen for every nitrogen) than there are in air (about 1 oxygen for every two nitrogens); and, they are injected under more than atmospheric pressure, i.e. blown like a supercharger, into the air/fuel mixture. Anybody with real knowledge, chime in here!

Originally Posted by RoundTuit

If nitrogen is inert, where does nitrous oxide, amonium nitrate and nitric acid come from? I thought the inert elements were Group 0, nitrogen is Group V.

Just wondering, I'm not a chemist.

[RoundTuit]

Originally Posted by RoundOut

I am no chemist either, but nitrogen is an element and nitrous oxide (NO2), amonium nitrate (NH4NO3) and nitric acid (HNO3) are molecules of multiple elements.

I do know the difference between elements, compounds and mixtures, and that was my point. Nitrogen bonds naturally (or does it always require an electric spark?) with other elements, and is therefore not inert -- at least according to my lame understanding of chemistry. I believe inert elements can be forced to bond with other elements under certain conditions, but I also believe it is rare to find compounds of inert elements in nature.

I have seen nitrogen described as inert more than once on this forum, and that has got me wondering. I just did a quick search and discovered that nitrogen is classified as inert even though it is not a group 0 element. Apparently that is because nitrogen is not very reactive in its naturally occurring N-N gaseous state. I guess that is the point Rlockyer was making.

As you can see, at my late age I am still unable to resist the temptation to demonstrate my ignorance in public. However, this did cause me to learn something, which I guess is good.

[Rlockyer]

Nitrogen is inert inasmuch as it does not encourage oxidation of the base materials. The real "evildoer" is oxygen... removal of oxygen removes the possibility of oxidation, fire, or explosion. Nitrogen is the easiest thing to use as a replacement for oxygen. Other gasses would be just as effective, but more costly.

Nitrous Oxide does indeed increase engine power because it is a delivery vehicle for the extra oxygen. The O2 is released during either compression or combustion (I don't recall which). It is effectively a supercharger.

[rx7vert]

Nitrous oxide is not used in vehicle to burn. Its main purpose is to cool the air so much that is is made more dense, therefore increasing power. It also breaks down slightly in the combustion chamber, adding compression, and making power.

I do know that nitrous is non flammable. If let out of a tank, it will blow out a candle, not blow it up.

this again is not from personal chemical testing, if I'm wrong, please correct me

[Supraman93]

ok maybe i'm wrong but wasnt the hindenburg (blimp) filled with nitrogen and it exploded? i would'nt really want my tires to explode while i'm driving!!

[Invid]

ok maybe i'm wrong but wasnt the hindenburg (blimp) filled with nitrogen and it exploded? i would'nt really want my tires to explode while i'm driving!!

That's incorrect the Hindenburg was filled with highly flammable hydrogen as well as being skinned in a highly flammable coated material.