Nitrogen VS Oxygen (filled tires)

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Thread: Nitrogen VS Oxygen (filled tires)

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    Veteran Member PagalDesi4Life's Avatar
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    Default Nitrogen VS Air

    I've come across an old article on nitrogen filled tires and was wondering what the experts on this forum have to say about that? This thread is not about the product in the link but to find out the answer if nitrogen is more effecient in tires or just stay with air?
    Last edited by PagalDesi4Life; 11-23-2004 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Sorry I was a little tired when I made this post so I accidently put Oxygen in the title instead of Air, sorry for that mistake. If a Moderator can change that for me, that would be great, thanks.

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    Supporter cubic22's Avatar
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    Talking

    Intersting column, here is one a little more up-to-date.
    http://www.mtdealer.com/t_inside.cfm...t&storyID=1207
    JOHN

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    I can see major benifints on something like a trailer or tow vehicle. They both typically haul heavy loads and that heats the tires up. Nitrogen is said to keep tire temp down. It will also be nice on trailers because it will hold the air longer on something that isn't used all that often.

    I'm not sure about the chorme or alluminum rims bit. Sounds like some of their benifits come from the tires staying properly inflated longer than with regular air. IMO bottom line, keep your tires properly inflated. To do so check them every so often, especially before towning or big trips. If you choose to do that with nitrogen cool, you can always just check more frequently and stick with regulair air.

    I would be willing to try it just to see how much longer the tires stayed inflated.

    So will nitrogen expand more or less than air as it heats up?


    "You play the hand you're dealt. I think the game's worthwhile." -C. S. Lewis

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    Junior Member greener's Avatar
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    With regular air the inside of your tires can start to break down after time. When Nitrogen is used you will not see this problem. Plus there's the whole air pressure thing that's already been mentioned.

    They've been using Nitrogen in Airplane tires for years and years. ~20???

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    I have been using nitrogen in my cars, trucks and other vehicles for years.

    Most automobile race teams use it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by greener
    With regular air the inside of your tires can start to break down after time. When Nitrogen is used you will not see this problem. Plus there's the whole air pressure thing that's already been mentioned.

    They've been using Nitrogen in Airplane tires for years and years. ~20???

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    While I was in the Navy I searved onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, an aircraft carrier. I used to supply nitrogen to the tire and wheel shop on the ship. I asked them why they used nitrogen and they told me that it was more stable when it came to heat and there is no moisture in nitrogen. Two good reasons for me. If multi-million dollar planes (jets) use nitrogen, it's good enough for me. I would use nitrogen but haven't found a good place to get the tires purged and filled in So. Cal.
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    When you fill up with nitrogen in the tires can you still fill up with regular air from the gas station if you start to get low?

    Raines124 check your local Costco (if you have membership). I know a lot of them now have the nitrogen fill service. It's something like 5 bucks a tire from what my brother tells me.
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    Sea level air has 20.9% Oxygen and about 77% Nitrogen. You certainly can add air to a tire full of nitrogen without a problem but you loose the advantages of having a tire full of nitrogen only listed below.

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    Yes, you can add regular air if you become low.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurbobrickT5
    When you fill up with nitrogen in the tires can you still fill up with regular air from the gas station if you start to get low?

    Raines124 check your local Costco (if you have membership). I know a lot of them now have the nitrogen fill service. It's something like 5 bucks a tire from what my brother tells me.

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    we had CAT 928 loaders at work with nitrogen filled tires but i had no idea why- guess i know now.
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    Nitrogen is better because it does not expand or contract as much as regular air.

    when you drive, your tires get hot from road friction, this causes the tires to gain pressure. When it gets cold outside, you can lose up to about 8 psi in your tires, having nitrogen would minimize the difference to about 3 psi.

    If your not racing, or offroading heavily, you would never know the difference. Just add air when its cold and let a little out when its hot. I wouldn't spend the time and money to get notrogen for a street vehicle.

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    Supporter Rlockyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rx7vert
    gain pressure. When it gets cold outside, you can lose up to about 8 psi in your tires, having nitrogen would minimize the difference to about 3 psi.
    I'd be interested in a reference to support that.
    You're already running nearly 80% nitrogen with air. Nitrogen's properties are not much different than oxygen. Nitrogen has an atomic weight of 14, 7 protons, and oxygen has an atomic weight of 16, 8 protons. Both turn from liquid to gas at 298k.

    In comparison with helium, helium is far less compressible than oxygen, and the result is that pressure variations as a result of temperature differentials far exceed that of air. When filling a scuba tank, we'll typically go 10% over our target pressure on helium to get the mix to come out right after it cools.
    I mention helium because helium is lighter than both oxygen and nitrogen, and nitrogen is lighter than oxygen.

    (P1 x V1)/T1 = (P2 x V2)/T2 (temperature in K)
    If temperature increases, either pressure or volume (or both) must increase.

    The primary reason nitrogen is used by the military is because it is inert. It will not promote corrosion and it poses no combustion hazard. Keep in mind that the SR-71 runs at 600psi. A blown tire in a wheel well with hot brakes and with the blow tire taking out the brake lines could fan a serious fire. Nitrogen will quench it.
    If low humidity were the issue, it would be much cheaper for the military to use moisture separators and filter stacks, much as we use for scuba cylinders (our air must be VERY dry).

    Nitrogen inflation is NOT a bad thing, but it's not a big deal. If the shop uses nitrogen, it's fine. It's not worth paying extra for. There's a lot of hype, voodoo, and misinformation. I had a Costco tire jockey tell me that "Ya, the atmosphere is 80% nitrogen, but oxygen is heavier (he's right), so it's all down here, and the nitrogen makes up the upper 80% of the atmosphere".
    The kid honestly believed that he was breathing pure oxygen.

    One thing about topups... TRY to get your air at full-service stations, rather than the coin-op units at gas-only or gas/quickie mart stations. The full-service stations also run their tools and other equipment from that compressor, so they are more likely to drain the tanks every night and deliver dryer air. Who knows how well the coin-op units are maintained. I've encountered some that blew visible mist and droplets out.
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    Default Dry air for scuba

    Quote Originally Posted by Rlockyer
    . . . If low humidity were the issue, it would be much cheaper for the military to use moisture separators and filter stacks, much as we use for scuba cylinders (our air must be VERY dry). . . .

    . . .

    One thing about topups... TRY to get your air at full-service stations, rather than the coin-op units at gas-only or gas/quickie mart stations. The full-service stations also run their tools and other equipment from that compressor, so they are more likely to drain the tanks every night and deliver dryer air. Who knows how well the coin-op units are maintained. I've encountered some that blew visible mist and droplets out.
    Interesting. That means I am using very dry air when I air up with my Scuba tank setup. I had a hook-a-rig made up when a Scuba shop I knew of was selling a bunch of old regulators. I figured that a 20' hose on an old stage 1 regulator to fill tires was a pretty cheap alternative to getting a compressor. I can fill a bunch of tires from an 80cf tank at 3000 psi. It is pretty heavy, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlockyer
    I'd be interested in a reference to support that.
    You're already running nearly 80% nitrogen with air. Nitrogen's properties are not much different than oxygen. Nitrogen has an atomic weight of 14, 7 protons, and oxygen has an atomic weight of 16, 8 protons. Both turn from liquid to gas at 298k.

    In comparison with helium, helium is far less compressible than oxygen, and the result is that pressure variations as a result of temperature differentials far exceed that of air. When filling a scuba tank, we'll typically go 10% over our target pressure on helium to get the mix to come out right after it cools.
    I mention helium because helium is lighter than both oxygen and nitrogen, and nitrogen is lighter than oxygen.

    (P1 x V1)/T1 = (P2 x V2)/T2 (temperature in K)
    If temperature increases, either pressure or volume (or both) must increase.

    Ah. Nice to hear a technical side. I am just repeating what I have heard from some of the race teams I have talked to. The guy that manages the cars variables, including tire pressure, said that they saw less variation in pressure with tire temperature with nitrogen than with regular air.

    It may have been the track conditions that they were testing on were giving substandard results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoundOut
    Interesting. That means I am using very dry air when I air up with my Scuba tank setup. I had a hook-a-rig made up when a Scuba shop I knew of was selling a bunch of old regulators. I figured that a 20' hose on an old stage 1 regulator to fill tires was a pretty cheap alternative to getting a compressor. I can fill a bunch of tires from an 80cf tank at 3000 psi. It is pretty heavy, though.
    Pick up a Genesis, Asahi, or PST HP 120... 3500psi and only 5 pounds heavier (empty) than the AL80. Full, it's closer to 10 pounds heavier, but it's 50% more air
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