OK you guys and gals. I searched the forums and have found little to help in finding the best snow tire setup for the Tundra. I just bought a 2nd set of stock Tundra 16 X 7 wheels so I have something to put them on. Here in Vermont we sometimes get a real winter with real ice and snow and all the local tire folks tell me the BFG Rugged trails are fine for summer but the hard rubber compound is the pits for winter traction. I have had 4WD for years and always run dedicated snows in the winter - I don't worry about going, it's the stopping that worries me. Nokian Hakkas, Bridgestone Blizzaks and Michelin Alpins are all on my list but if anyone has either good or bad experience with something, let me know. You folks in Florida can ignore this thread.
Shawn
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Shawn Bryan
Red 2002 Tundra LTD
Gray 2005 4Runner Sport
Berlin, Vermont
The Nokians are probably the best thing out there, providing they come in the correct size. They are sometimes a little hard to find. Bridgestones Blizzaks tend to wear rapidly on dry pavement, and the sticky compund is only the first 50% of the tire.
We don't get that much snow here, but I put Michelin All Terrains on my wife's RX300 a few months back, and just had a set of 265/75/16's put on my Tundra last week. They're rated really good for snow, a little less for mud, and are rated a good all around tire for everyday use. Check out Michelin's web site and you can read all about them.
When this site first started several years ago a fellow Vermonter commented on his Nokians. Don't think we can access that far back in the archives. He was very pleased though is what I remember. You may want to consider the 245/75 size to get a narrower footprint. Try nokiantires.com for more info and reports.
Toyo Observe GP4. These are excellent snow tires. I had a set on my '97 Tacoma and immediately bought a set for my '01 Tundra. I drive a lot in snow and ice conditions and they definantely make a big difference over the BFG OEM tires the truck came with. Highly recommended. I paid just over $750.00 Canadian (about 480 US$) for a set of 4.
I suspect this thread may continue for a while longer but I wanted to say thanks to all who took the time to post comments or ideas. Much appreciated.
Shawn
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Shawn Bryan
Red 2002 Tundra LTD
Gray 2005 4Runner Sport
Berlin, Vermont
If you are looking for studded snow tires.
For our trucks and vans at work I put on Firestone Steeltex 23.
A little more aggressive tire would be a Goodyear Workhorse Extra Grip.
A lot more aggressive tire would be a General Grabber MT.
I know these tires are available in LT245/75R16 but I’ll have to check for other sizes. AND! They have to be studded at the tire shop.
While we are talking snow tires: the Goodyear Workhorse Extra Grip and the General Grabber MT aren't very versatile snow tires. They are primarily off-road mud/dirt traction tires and are not suited for snow/ice conditions on road. I suppose they'd be fine if you tend to drive up past your axles in deep glop, but on the road they would be terrible. A true snow tire needs two things these tires lack: Soft rubber compound that stays sticky below freezing, and extensive siping to provide grip on slick surfaces. Of course, you can stud the tires for ice grip, but many places do not allow studded tires to be used on major highways. Also, studded tires on dry pavement are both noisy and have poor braking characteristics. The point I'm trying to make is that an aggressive looking mud tires does not necessarily make a good snow tire.
Toolbox,
On your behalf I'll inform the California Highway Patrol that they are screwing up.
However I do agree that studded snow tires are terrible on dry roads and I do try to get my truck and van drivers to run the less aggressive Firestone Steeltex 23. But since they have to drive in "ALL" conditions those are the tires that they trust to get them there and back.
One other thing people should be aware of is a snow tire has to be aggressive enough to throw the snow out of the treads or the tire will load up (with snow), and be useless as a traction device.
I just have to chime in here. As a Vermonter I drive in ice and snow 7 months out of 12. I agree that a soft compound tread is pretty critical for winter traction, especially on ice. I have used studded snows on my 4WD vehicles in the past but as has been noted, dry pavement handling suffers and they are noisy. If aggressive tread pattern alone was all there is to winter traction then even the stock BFG tires would be fine in the snow but that doesn't seem to be the consensus. Depth of tread is also a factor, as are the ability of the tire to bite into snow and slush. Many snow tires stagger the tread design across the tire profile so the tire is always biting into new snow that has not yet been packed down by the tire. Narrower profile tires also seem to get the nod for providing more bite and less float, which has also been my experience. Great discussion so far.
Shawn
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Shawn Bryan
Red 2002 Tundra LTD
Gray 2005 4Runner Sport
Berlin, Vermont
Yes, excellent discussion! Bbutch: I guess the CHP has vehicles in the mountains? I wonder what they drive on up there....if it's snow/muddy goo I imagine the tires they have chosen work out. But I guarantee (from personal experience) that a heavily lugged "mud tire" will not perform as well as a "real" snow tire on slick/icy snow-packed pavement. If it's doing the job for them, more power to 'em!
All in all, it really depends on where you plan to drive the most. For me, I drive a lot on icy/snowpacked pavement many months of the year. The temperature here ranges from -40C to +2C when my snow tires are on the truck, so the pavement can be dry, icy, wet, snow covered, snowpacked all in the same week! A Your conditions may vary. A true snow tire's soft rubber remains pliable at very cold temperatures, which makes a significant difference in traction. The downside is that you must take them off when it gets above freezing, or else you will wear them out quickly. Although, I see people around here using them (Toyo Observes) year-round and they seem to hold up. For deep snow, they seem to work well. I drove over 20 km through twisty back roads covered with snow over 30cm deep.+
I used Bridgestone Winter Dueler DM-Z2 P245/75-16 tires last year and was very favorably impressed with the traction on both glare ice and shin deep snow. If you need wheels, TireRack has these tires on OEM steel wheels for a price that can't be beat.
An interesting note...the 245 winter tires have a wider tread contact surface than my 265 summer tires--go figure!
I'll put Nokians on another family vehicle this winter; I expect them to have great traction.
In many states, including California, any tire with the M+S designation is snow-legal, but that's not the same thing as working really well. M+S is granted when a tire's tread meets certain requirements of open space vs. tread. Other states and provinces require that winter tires have the new snowflake-on-the-mountain symbol. These tires have actually passed an on-snow traction test.
Absolutely right about the M+S designation. It's useless as far as finding a good snow tire. In fact the M+S test does not even involve snow! The new snowflake symbol is a much better way to identify a true snow tire. You can find some good info here:
Bridgestones: Their winter tires are based on the Blizzack design, which uses a "softer" multi-cellular rubber on the contact areas of the tire. This rubber provides great traction on ice and wet packed snow, but wears away faster-than-normal on dry pavement. Around here, you can see many sets of 2 season old Blizzack tires for sale in the various papers. I don't know from personal experience, but it seems that once this soft outer rubber wears down, the tires performance suffers.
The Blizzaks soft rubber has the same surface traction, no matter how deep the remaining soft layer. True, if the total tread depth is less, it'll have less deep snow traction.
The new Blizzak models wear better than their original versions.
I'd buy them again if I needed the wheel package from Tirerack. I'll replace them with Nokian Hakkapelliitta LT.
For a very interesting article on winter tire design, go to http://www.nokiantires.com/indexen.html
click on Product Line, Passenger, Winter, Winter Tire Safety.
Best SNOW tires?
Winter Tires
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