I went and got the rig weighed today but i was unable to get the front axle weights with this particular scale. This is my trailer mostly loaded w/o water or clothes, but with some can goods, tv's, dvd players, bedding, etc...Also 2 propane tanks in the front (almost empty), and 2 6v batteries.
Loaded including people:
Truck---7520 lbs which equates to 1260 pin which is the same as dry listed.
Trailer axle---6000 lbs
GCWR---13,520 lbs ( well under 16,000 )
Unloaded with me and dad in the truck (400lbs), 1/2 tank of gas, & B&W turnover ball gooseneck hitch:
Truck----6260 lbs
This shows my trailer to weigh almost exactly 1000 lbs over listed ULVW. But it is mostly loaded. It's amazing to me to see the pin weight not being at 20% of trailer weight. WTH? It should be 1452 at 20%.
I feel pretty good with where i'm at as far as GAWR for the truck (8150). Looks like i have about 630 lbs to spare, and i can't imagine me going over that. But i don't have much room for additional weight in the bed if you figure the 1260 on the rear axle only. Which according to Gary's figures, empty the rear weighed 2600 lbs, so that puts me at 3860 and only 290lbs to spare. But i usually don't tow with the tailgate on & i don't put much in the bed at all.
I think i might actually be under or at rear wheel axle limits.
What do you all think?
Here's some pics: Oh and by the way, i only have 5psi in the airbags.
Last edited by Only Toyota for me; 03-24-2009 at 03:01 AM.
Reason: Ad pic
Here's my dad's rig which weighs 1500 lbs more than mine above.
Loaded w/ full tank of fuel, some canned goods, 2 tv's, dvd, no water, bedding,full propane, & 2 6v batteries.
Truck w/ mom & dad inside----8120 lbs = 1860 lbs pin
Trailer------------------------6980 lbs
GCWR------------------------15100 lbs
Empty truck w/ 400lbs of people inside--6260
This trailer is quite heavy for the tundra, but my dad is tickled pink with how well it handles it. And 99% of the time he won't have any more people in the truck or anything in the bed.
I know, i know, he's busted the listed rear axle rating. But you can't tell by looking at it hooked up w/ 25lbs of air in the bags.
Here's his setup:
Last edited by Only Toyota for me; 03-24-2009 at 03:03 AM.
Reason: Ad pic
You and your dad are both over your gvw . Your dads is way over his gvw and gaw . I don't mind pushing it a bit as i know the tundra is under rated . But your dads rig is to much for me . He needs a gas 3/4 or a diesel 1 ton to be legal .
I know 5th wheel trailer tow nice , are shorter with the same nice layouts as a TT but the bigger pin weight makes them not the best option for 1/2 tons .
It's funny the things that make them nicer and safer to tow . Like have more weight on the truck right over the axle . Also make you unsafe in the eyes of the weight police .
__________________
Double cab long box 4x4 5.7 L slate grey . would have bought a limited if available with long box
You and your dad are both over your gvw . Your dads is way over his gvw and gaw . I don't mind pushing it a bit as i know the tundra is under rated . But your dads rig is to much for me . He needs a gas 3/4 or a diesel 1 ton to be legal .
I know 5th wheel trailer tow nice , are shorter with the same nice layouts as a TT but the bigger pin weight makes them not the best option for 1/2 tons .
It's funny the things that make them nicer and safer to tow . Like have more weight on the truck right over the axle . Also make you unsafe in the eyes of the weight police .
I am barely over my gvwr, and yes dad is way over. IMO, dad's rig is a bit too much for the tundra, but we'll see next month when we go to disneyland. I'll be doing some temperature tests on tranny, axle, etc...
Just for the record, dad just came from a HD 3/4 ton gasser and the tundra handles it much better in ALL aspects.
I don't worry about mine whatsoever. I feel i am completely within the trucks limits (GAWR), and i'm quite comfortable with my weights. Maybe unsafe in the eyes of the weight police, but not in mine.
OTFM, great job getting the weights. I was surprised how easy it was to get them at CAT myself. Were you at a CAT?
I have a couple thoughts here before I post my own weights.
One, with only 5 psig in your bags they have only added approx 150 pounds carrying capacity (about 32 pounds for each pound of air). In this condition, with 1,200 pounds on the pin, the bags are very compressed and you may pinch them, causing a leak. At 1200 pounds on the pin, why not share the load at least 50/50 with the bags? Put 20 psig in them and let them carry 600 pounds. Buy that little rechargeable pump mentioned at Walmart for 39 bucks. Man that thing is slick and it takes me 5 seconds to get my bags filled at a moments notice. I also filled a car tire w it and it only took a couple min. I really love that thing. (I tow with 30-35 pounds in them).
Now, for your low pin weight...I note that your trailer is tilted up in the nose...this shifts more weight to your rear axles. When I used my little Sherline loadmaster scale at the dealer (he put it on his tractor and we set the pin on it for our weight) we got 1100 pounds reading with the trailer high in front....then let it down lower and it raised to 1350 lbs...the angle of your trailer is why you have a diff reading. Can you raise the rear axles a bit? It may trailer better too I don't know.
Now, for my weights...(these were posted the other day under my string "5th wheel tow need springs or airbags") reposted here for this dedicated 5th wheel weight string.
Its a 2008 Jayco 31.5FBHS (34 ft)...Quad bunks up front.
1. This weight included me (200pounds) and two full propane tanks in the front of the trailer. Otherwise the trailer is empty. Although I do understand the water tanks to be over or behind the axles so they should not hurt my Tundra bed weights.
2. Tundra had about a third of a tank of gas.
3. Tundra double cab has a Husky 16,000 pound 5th wheel hitch slide in bed.
4. Tundra Only (front/rear weights, total) = 3420/2600, 6020 pounds.
5. Tundra Trailer Combo = Tundra 3420/4120, Trailer axle 6980, total = 14,520. Trailer is not loaded except for propane.
See pics and pdf of actual CAT readouts....
Last edited by Gary_Tenison; 05-27-2009 at 03:02 PM.
Reason: add
Great thread. I hope everyone considering a 5er with the new Tundra reads it. It illustrates what we all knew: the Tundra can tow a 5er, but not just any 5er and not just willy nilly.
OTFM, I would tow your setup and not worry. Only thing I would keep an eye on is the slight nose up attitude of the trailer. That will put more weight on the rear trailer tires vs. the front and may lead to premature failure. This has been reported on rv.net numerous times.
Your dad, on the other hand, is way too heavy. I don't care if the truck handles like a sports car and pulls like a mule, the folks that built the truck put limits on it and he is WAAAAAYYYYY over them. He's in no man's land. That's fine if he wants to risk his own arse, but that's not safe for other people on the road. Chances are nothing will ever happen and he can poo poo me all he wants.
Gary is getting too close for my comfort, but he is mitigating it with two vehicles. I think that is smart. I would not consider towing that 5er if the family and all the cargo had to go in the rig.
Thanks to all for weighing the rig. I hope prospective 5er buyers plan to weigh the 5er before buying it. Just so they know what they are getting into.
As an aside, anyone know how many 3/4 ton trucks would need airbags to handle these pin weights (which are relatively light)? The answer is none. The Tundra is not a 3/4 ton truck.
OTFM, great job getting the weights. I was surprised how easy it was to get them at CAT myself. Were you at a CAT?
I have a couple thoughts here before I post my own weights.
One, with only 5 psig in your bags they have only added approx 150 pounds carrying capacity (about 32 pounds for each pound of air). In this condition, with 12,000 pounds on the pin, the bags are very compressed and you may pinch them, causing a leak. At 12 pounds on the pin, why not share the load at least 50/50 with the bags? Put 20 psig in them and let them carry 600 pounds. Buy that little rechargeable pump mentioned at Walmart for 39 bucks. Man that thing is slick and it takes me 5 seconds to get my bags filled at a moments notice. I also filled a car tire w it and it only took a couple min. I really love that thing. (I tow with 30 pounds in them).
Now, for your low pin weight...I note that your trailer is tilted up in the nose...this shifts more weight to your rear axles. When I used my little Sherline loadmaster scale at the dealer (he put it on his tractor and we set the pin on it for our weight) we got 1100 pounds reading with the trailer high in front....then let it down lower and it raised to 1350 lbs...the angle of you trailer is why you have a diff reading. Can you raise the rear axles a bit? It may trailer better too I don't know.
Now, for my weights...(these were posted the other day under my string "5th wheel tow need springs or airbags") reposted here for this dedicated 5th wheel weight string.
Its a 2008 Jayco 31.5FBHS (34 ft)...Quad bunks up front.
1. This weight included me (200pounds) and two full propane tanks in the front of the trailer. Otherwise the trailer is empty. Although I do understand the water tanks to be over or behind the axles so they should not hurt my Tundra bed weights.
2. Tundra had about a third of a tank of gas.
3. Tundra double cab has a Husky 16,000 pound 5th wheel hitch slide in bed.
4. Tundra Only (front/rear weights, total) = 3420/2600, 6020 pounds.
5. Tundra Trailer Combo = Tundra 3420/4120, Trailer axle 6980, total = 14,520. Trailer is not loaded except for propane.
See pics and pdf of actual CAT readouts....
No, i was at the flying J truck stop. The only CAT scale's around here are about 50 miles away.
I know, i know i read your thread on the psi per pound info, which was good info by the way, thanks. In this situation i was only going to weigh the rig and then return home & park it, so i didn't bother with the bags. However, I will be putting in at least 10-15 psi in them when i travel distances.
I've got a cheap corded air pump i'll carry with me to add air them up.
I know it's a little front heavy, and i do plan on putting a block on the axles to help with that, or flopping the axles. I think i'd gain 3" or more by flopping the axles though & i don't need that much. But it is a necessaty now with the bags installed. I can't beleive the bags lifted the front of the trailer, but they sure did and i only had 5 psi in them.
Coming back i had to stop fairly fast & the front tires locked up on the trailer. So i definately have to lift the trailer some, that's for sure.
I would think that a nose high trailer would put more pin weight on the truck, not vica versa? It seems to me the truck would be taking more weight off the front axles of the trailer.
If what you are saying is true, my dad should lose some pin weight after what he's done. Yesterday, he put 2.5" taller tires on it, and moved the spring shackles down 1" as well.
Just for the record, today he mentioned the front of his trailer is loaded to the hilt with some dutch ovens, grills, bbq's, and everything.
Great thread. I hope everyone considering a 5er with the new Tundra reads it. It illustrates what we all knew: the Tundra can tow a 5er, but not just any 5er and not just willy nilly.
OTFM, I would tow your setup and not worry. Only thing I would keep an eye on is the slight nose up attitude of the trailer. That will put more weight on the rear trailer tires vs. the front and may lead to premature failure. This has been reported on rv.net numerous times.
Your dad, on the other hand, is way too heavy. I don't care if the truck handles like a sports car and pulls like a mule, the folks that built the truck put limits on it and he is WAAAAAYYYYY over them. He's in no man's land. That's fine if he wants to risk his own arse, but that's not safe for other people on the road. Chances are nothing will ever happen and he can poo poo me all he wants.
Gary is getting too close for my comfort, but he is mitigating it with two vehicles. I think that is smart. I would not consider towing that 5er if the family and all the cargo had to go in the rig.
Thanks to all for weighing the rig. I hope prospective 5er buyers plan to weigh the 5er before buying it. Just so they know what they are getting into.
As an aside, anyone know how many 3/4 ton trucks would need airbags to handle these pin weights (which are relatively light)? The answer is none. The Tundra is not a 3/4 ton truck.
Tom
That's good to know about the premature failure on the nose high situation. Thanks.
My dad is right at the GAWR for sure, but i do not beleive this will increase with his trailer. Here's why: His water tank is just in front of the rear bumper as well as the sewer tanks & water heater. However, he is over the rear axle rating which means IMO that the axle WILL eventually be the weakest link. Which has not yet been able to prove itself yet, so we'll see i guess.
He and mom will be the only people or cargo in the truck when towing this load as well. So if he just watches the tongue load, i think he'll be fine. But he'll have to take extra caution when he's towing it. Which he already does now, and he's in his upper 50's & doesn't go over 65 mph.
You must not have noticed my other posts on the 3/4 ton thing. My dad's old 2500 HD needed airbags with his trailer. It sagged more than our trucks did before the airbags. But it only had 60k miles on it and was a 1996. But from what he always claimed as a GM man was that the 2500 chevy's were just as heavy duty as the ford 1 ton's, and close with the dodge 2500.
Ok Tom....where your actuals? Step up here... BTW, I was on RVNET the other day and there are a lot of those guys also using airbags for similar size 5th wheels. I suspect bed loads are lower than we would expect for most trucks because they are always trading ride quality for load capacity...
Trailer is 5200 lbs dry (4700 lbs in the brochure). 5600 lbs ready to camp with no liquids. Hitch is 750 lbs dry (500 lbs ish in the brochure). I can control the hitch weight to be between 475 lbs and over 1000 lbs by moving stuff in the outside compartments and how much water I put in. When I'm on a typical weekend trip, I max out my GVWR, GCWR, RAWR and tolerance for weight. Trailer is 32.5 ft bemper to back of spare tire.
The new Tundra would tow this much better, but not in the cards right now.
I am always going to recommend staying within the weight limits. The guy asking about busting his GVWR by 20% is why. Don't do that. Especially not with a high cg truck camper. I knew folks were going to want to go big towing with the new Tundra because of its monster powertrain. But it is still a 1/2 ton pickup. Just because it pulls fine does not necessarily mean it is fine. I can say that you and OTFM look ok. You know where you are and are managing the rig well. And you're asking questions. There are plenty of 5er's the new Tundra can pull. But not all of them.
Someone weight their fifth wheel and add to this data...this is a good idea. Come on guys, it only took me 20min to get this done on a CAT station scale.
Here's my dad's rig which weighs 1500 lbs more than mine above.
Loaded w/ full tank of fuel, some canned goods, 2 tv's, dvd, no water, bedding,full propane, & 2 6v batteries.
Truck w/ mom & dad inside----8120 lbs = 1860 lbs pin
Trailer------------------------6980 lbs
GCWR------------------------15100 lbs
Empty truck w/ 400lbs of people inside--6260
This trailer is quite heavy for the tundra, but my dad is tickled pink with how well it handles it. And 99% of the time he won't have any more people in the truck or anything in the bed.
I know, i know, he's busted the listed rear axle rating. But you can't tell by looking at it hooked up w/ 25lbs of air in the bags.
Here's his setup:
The rear axle (GAWR) for this truck is probably the same as mine. i.e. 4100lbs. Considering that the weight distribution of your loaded truck, without the hitch and trailer, is probably no worse than a 70-30 spit, that means the axle is carrying nor more than about 2436 lbs. That leaves quite a bit of leeway for the of the weight that goes on the real axle.
Yeah, the rear axle rating is 4150 & my dad is right at 4120. So he has no room for much of anything else. But that trailer has 2 huge storage compartments up front that are loaded pretty heavy. I'd imagine that weight won't increase much if any.
I think he'll be shaving some off soon when he gets an LCD tv instead of that big 27" beast he has now. I'd imagine about 100 lbs or so. Those things are heavy.
5th wheel actual weights
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