Recommendations for Saggy Tundra

[kdogcrozier]

Let me preface this post with the following:
o I don't offroad
o I don't run monster giant tires
o I don't want a monster truck
o Looking cool is not the point

I use my Tundra to drag around my race car and associated junk. When I get everything loaded up and the trailer all hitched, my tundra is pretty saggy in the arse end. I know it bottoms out when I hit bumps.

I am looking for something to solve this problem. I don't want a 4" lift, I just want something tried, true and easy to install.

Thoughts, recommendations?

Thanks,
Kevin

[lwofjax]

Let me say I don't have any specific experience with these products on a Tundra.

That said - I think what you need is "helper springs". I've seen different types (mechanical, air, etc.). Do a search on google. Also search for "load leveling truck".

Check out this link:
Load-Leveling Aritcle on FourWheeler.com

[Genthar]

Some quick ideas:

TRD Add a Leaf
Airbags
Roadmaster Active Suspension

I don't use any of these myself, but then again I don't haul loads that large frequently enough to worry about it.

[Mack]

I wanted my Tundra to handle a load better. Did not want to give up a good ride when empty. Did not want to jack my truck up in back when empty. Tried the Roadmaster Active Suspension. Very glad I did. Rides good. Not much higher in back, if any at all. Handles a load well. Truck even handles curves and cross-winds better when empty. Very good product.

You can check them out at www.activesuspension.com If I remember correctly.

Mack

[fastmhz]

Fabtech add a leaf springs give u a 1.5" lift in the rear...

[thecarguy]

If you want basic, no frills, low price, downey makes a 1" rear block.



What Kind of race car?

[tohara17]

I added a 1.5" leaf to each spring pack from Wheeler's offraod and a Hellwig sway bar to help handle heavy loads. The truck corners flatter and doesn't sag as much. An air bag system has better capacity than simply adding a leaf, but is significantly more expensive ($80 vs. $300).

I installed an airbag system to my wife's Windstar; I'd rate the install times and effort required as the same.

HTH,

Tom

[DevinSixtySeven]

kevin:

if you tow & haul frequently, what you seek is probably a combination of the hellwig anti-sway bar (about 150$) and a set of leaf springs meant for towing/hauling duty or airbags. just adding a block or add-a-leaf will not compensate for the overly soft--and in your case, now well-used--tundra leaf springs. you'd be much better off with a system which will allow your loaded tundra to ride the same (or better) than when empty. alcan spring (www.alcanspring.com) manufactures nothing but custom leaf springs, they're easier to deal with than northwest offroad as far as spring specifications (egad, what a system of measurement), and their quality is top-notch. they can manufacture a set of stock length, stock ride height, +XXX# springs for you...just tell them how much you generall tow or haul, and they'll build the springs to ride stock at that weight. bear in mind that in general, a stock height spring with added load bearing capability will ride higher when empty than the stock spring, but will ride at stock height when loaded with the intended working weight.
if you don't want to spend 500 bucks on new springs, air bag systems are around 300 or so and will allow you to adjust your ride height and stability under load and retain your stock ride characteristics without load.

-sean

pic of the alcan springs under my photos section.

[tommer]

Hi,
I'm hoping you might be able to help w/ this question.... I have a 2003 Tundra access cab. I am looking at buying a Northstar camper, fully loaded it would weigh about 2000 lbs. I have been told that the airbags that are made for the Tundra are cheap/cheesy, don't work. Been told that adding a leaf spring would be better.... but the airbags sound like a better solution....any ideas??

[helica]

I'd do an AAL over a block!

Are you using a weight-distributing hitch?

[tomhole]

Originally Posted by helica

Are you using a weight-distributing hitch?

That's the best suggestion, yet. Don't treat the symptom, cure the disease. Use a weight distribution hitch (WDH). All that other stuff just masks the real problem, doesn't solve it.

As an example, I tow a travel trailer with a hitch weight of 680 lbs. Without a WDH, the back axle sees 1,000 lbs. That's because with all that weight aft of the rear axle, which is a pivot point, the trailer actually removes 300 lbs from the front axle. So, all any of those other suggestions will accomplish is jack the back end up and mask the real problem: I still have 1,000 lbs on the rear axle and 300 less on the front axle. That can (and does) cause some serious handling issues.

Go to an RV place or a U-Haul place and ask them to install a Reese or Equal-i-zer or any brand WDH. Make sure you know how much your trailer weighs (including hitch weight). They cost between $250 and $400. Once you drive with the WDH, you'll never know the trailer is back there until you try to race the hot chick in the Ferarri.

I would also add heavy duty shocks if not yet so equipped. Helps reduce bounce while towing.

Tom

[jimdejet]

Originally Posted by tommer

Hi,
I'm hoping you might be able to help w/ this question.... I have a 2003 Tundra access cab. I am looking at buying a Northstar camper, fully loaded it would weigh about 2000 lbs. I have been told that the airbags that are made for the Tundra are cheap/cheesy, don't work. Been told that adding a leaf spring would be better.... but the airbags sound like a better solution....any ideas??

Air bags do work just fine. Quality ride when truck is empty(5 psi) and quality ride when when towing(10 to 15 psi). The brand I used is Firestone. My trailer weights about 3,000lbs. Minimum purchase with the airbags should be an onboard compressor and single control valve with guage. A buddy of mine had this installed on his tundra last week for $625 at Desert Rat 4WD in Albuquerque. This $625 included the parts and labor. He tows a 28 foot fifth wheel.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by jimdejet

Air bags do work just fine. Quality ride when truck is empty(5 psi) and quality ride when when towing(10 to 15 psi). The brand I used is Firestone. My trailer weights about 3,000lbs. Minimum purchase with the airbags should be an onboard compressor and single control valve with guage. A buddy of mine had this installed on his tundra last week for $625 at Desert Rat 4WD in Albuquerque. This $625 included the parts and labor. He tows a 28 foot fifth wheel.

For solving rear sag from a 5th wheel (where the pin weight is directly over the rear axle), air bags are OK as long as they're not being installed to try to increase the truck's weight carrying capability. The rear suspension of a Tundra is about as strong as the underlying frame and axle. So merely beefing up the rear suspension without also beefing up the frame and axle only transfers the problems of an overload elsewhere. I've seen pictures of a broken Tundra frame (both sides) caused by an overload that exceeded the GVWR and GAWR...an overload that the owner thought he could "fix" by beefing up the rear suspension with airbags. And I've read several reports of poeple who actually snapped the rear axle in half from overloading it and then towing a toy-hauler off road...and in each case, they thought they'd solved their overload by beefing up the rear suspension.

However, air bags are an evil and potentially very dangerous "fix" for tongue weight induced rear sag when towing a conventional travel trailer. As member tomhole correctly explained earlier in this thread, it's not just the weight of the trailer tongue that's being carried by the rear suspension...the rear suspension is also carrying the weight taken off the front suspension by the tongue downforce being applied several feet behind the truck's rear axle.

Because it's unweighted by typically 200 to 300 lbs, the front suspension rises about an inch above normal. And that's where air bags truly become an evil and very dangerous solution because the natural and normal tendancy is to inflate them until the truck is level...and that makes the rear suspension also now an inch higher than normal. There are two reasons why I emphasize the evil danger of this:

First, raising the rear suspension by an inch will almost totally close the brake proportioning valve (BPV) on the rear axle and thus the rear brakes will contribute almost nothing to stopping the truck.

Second, since the air bags leave the front suspension unweighted, that means the front tires are much easier to skid. Thus the front brakes have reduced effectiveness when they are having to do nearly all of the stopping.

By contrast, a WDH distributes the tongue weight roughly equally between the front suspension, the rear suspension, and the trailer's suspension. So instead of being unweighted, the front suspension has additional downforce...which improves the front tire's steering and braking effectiveness. And the rear suspension...instead of carrying all the tongue weight plus the weight coming off the front suspension...is only carrying about a third of the tongue weight. Hence the rear squats a minor amount...but it does squat enough to open the BPV so the rear brakes do a higher percentage of the stopping (requiring less from the front brakes). And finally, because the front and rear get roughly equal amounts of the tongue weight, they both squat the same amount so the truck naturally stays level.

The bottom line is a WDH is a win-win-win way combating trailer induced sag. For a conventional trailer, IMO using air bags is simply a lose-lose-lose way of trying to combat the sag.

[jimdejet]

I disagree that airbags are all encompassing bad for towing conventional trailers because one just wants to fix the sag. Up to point airbags are ok for sagging problems. One has to look at weight of truck, length of truck, distance from rear axle to trailer ball, percentage of weight front/rear when empty(Usually 56 to 60%). Also trailer weight and tongue weight has to be knowned. Calculate some of these parameters and the differences of weight shift can be figured by every owner. Fringe parameters would all the stuff my spouse packs in the access cab, two people up front and about 125lbs of skid plates up front, campershell in the back and everything else loaded back there. The ride feels better while towing because the rear is not riding on the stiffer area of the springs(when sagging) thus when hitting a bump the shock absorbers and soft area of the springs along with the airbags ~20psi.

In my case of a 3,000lb trailer and 400lb tongue weight I have not experienced anything that would make me purchase a WDH. I try to keep safe distances from other vehicles while towing, but driving experiences are not always perfect. I have had to do some heavy braking in the city and highway.

If I had A smaller/lighter truck(Tacoma) or heavier trailer(~4,000lb) with tongue weight of 500/600lb plus, then a WDH would be on the front burner for a purchase.

[KLS]

Originally Posted by tommer

Hi,
I'm hoping you might be able to help w/ this question.... I have a 2003 Tundra access cab. I am looking at buying a Northstar camper, fully loaded it would weigh about 2000 lbs. I have been told that the airbags that are made for the Tundra are cheap/cheesy, don't work. Been told that adding a leaf spring would be better.... but the airbags sound like a better solution....any ideas??

Forget it. Really. There is no way a Tundra can safely and reliably carry 2000#. You need a 1-ton pickup.

About any helper springs including air bags, Timbren rubber springs, and Roadmaster Active Suspension...you really need to recalibrate the rear brake proportioning valve (PV) linkage. The PV limits how much the rear brakes activate according to the height of the frame above the rear axle. If you change the relationship of the rear squat to the load carried, you are changing the relationship of rear braking power to truck weight.

A weight distributing hitch is the right way to level the truck when towing. If the trailer has a surge brake, or the tongue weight is <400#, an "Equal-i-zer" brand hitch works best. Otherwise, a Drawtite/Reese/Hidden Hitch hitch with dual-cam or the Equal-i-zer are top choices, both having integral sway damping.


Ken