What, you can't be ethical and not smear Hensley? You won't even call them by name. The orange company? That's what I'm talking about. You can dispute, clarify and repudiate in an eloquent, factual way and you'd probably do even better. If I spoke about other parties like that in my business negotiations I'd be hung out to dry! It's a very uncommon approach, I have to say.
I guess if telling the truth, which is the MORALLY right thing to do, smears the orange then NO I can't be morally right and withhold facts while people are taken advantage of by higher priced products. I KNOW the cost of goods for the product and I know the contribution to their expenses that is built INTO their price. I also KNOW every single problem the hitch has EVER had that has NEVER been addressed and fixed.
Yeah, most businesspeople are doing so well these days because of their great "professionalism", right? If it is the truth you wouldn't be hung out to dry. What are you afraid of? Telling the truth?
I'm not sure I understand your definitions of ethical and moral. I use the common dictionary definitions. I have never been UNethical or IMmoral in my statements about the orange company.
I don't use their name because the filed a TRADEMARK on Jim Hensley's last name (I'm not going to circle an R every time I reference the company) and sued us for using his name. Their argument was that, and these are their words from the case, the RV market is "unsophisticated" and would easily be confused by me stating that Jim Hensley designed the ProPride 3P. It was thrown out of district court and then they appealed it to the U.S. Court of Appeals where they lost that too. They deny that Jim Hensley ever had anything to do with the design of their orange hitch and give him ZERO credit for his accomplishments. You want to talk about moral?
How about filing a trademark application and and not stating that they know anyone with the name of the trademark they are filing? You want to talk about ethical? Or, how about copying a patented chock by sending it to China, knowing full well it was patented, and then waiting for the company that owns the patent to sue and just settling if they do. Ethical?
You really should know more than what ol' orange is telling you before you comment on morality and ethics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geodude
Either way, good luck. I have always felt that Hensley needed some competition in order to drive innovation and price. I appreciate the points you list regarding improvements to the design inherent in the ProPride, that's good to know. In fact, if there is one thing about my Hensley Arrow I would love to see improved, it's the lack of a height-adjustable drawbar. Other than that it works as advertised, and works wonderfully. You should have seen last weekend's angle!
Well, you'll never see one from them unless they infringe on the patent for the adjustable bar for a linkage hitch that I have licensed from Jim Hensley. Just reference the details of the chock and you'll see that it may happen. They tell people it doesn't work anyway. I suppose everyone else using adjustable hitch bars are idiots and it isn't working for the almost 1300 customers using a 3P. I'm not sure if I would put this last fact in the ethical or arrogant category.
I guess if telling the truth, which is the MORALLY right thing to do, smears the orange then NO I can't be morally right and withhold facts while people are taken advantage of by higher priced products. I KNOW the cost of goods for the product and I know the contribution to their expenses that is built INTO their price. I also KNOW every single problem the hitch has EVER had that has NEVER been addressed and fixed.
Yeah, most businesspeople are doing so well these days because of their great "professionalism", right? If it is the truth you wouldn't be hung out to dry. What are you afraid of? Telling the truth?
I'm not sure I understand your definitions of ethical and moral. I use the common dictionary definitions. I have never been UNethical or IMmoral in my statements about the orange company.
I don't use their name because the filed a TRADEMARK on Jim Hensley's last name (I'm not going to circle an R every time I reference the company) and sued us for using his name. Their argument was that, and these are their words from the case, the RV market is "unsophisticated" and would easily be confused by me stating that Jim Hensley designed the ProPride 3P. It was thrown out of district court and then they appealed it to the U.S. Court of Appeals where they lost that too. They deny that Jim Hensley ever had anything to do with the design of their orange hitch and give him ZERO credit for his accomplishments. You want to talk about moral?
How about filing a trademark application and and not stating that they know anyone with the name of the trademark they are filing? You want to talk about ethical? Or, how about copying a patented chock by sending it to China, knowing full well it was patented, and then waiting for the company that owns the patent to sue and just settling if they do. Ethical?
You really should know more than what ol' orange is telling you before you comment on morality and ethics.
Well, you'll never see one from them unless they infringe on the patent for the adjustable bar for a linkage hitch that I have licensed from Jim Hensley. Just reference the details of the chock and you'll see that it may happen. They tell people it doesn't work anyway. I suppose everyone else using adjustable hitch bars are idiots and it isn't working for the almost 1300 customers using a 3P. I'm not sure if I would put this last fact in the ethical or arrogant category.
I've never had anything but excellent exchanges of information and top-notch support at the folks at Hensley Manufacturing Inc. (I think that's the proper name for the company, and I can't imagine you getting into any trouble for using their name of incorporation; by thinking and acting otherwise shows how deep this issue runs, I suppose).
I have yet to hear them utter to me, or post on a public forum, anything negative about another company. Most companies don't do that. I'm sure they would have a lot of interesting things to say as well, but it doesn't make sense as a way to generate business, as I see it. If there are problems of a legal nature, let the courts decide. As we all know, there are many ways to work around, or on the edge of, trademarks and patents. Welcome to globalization.
Every company can choose how to portray themselves and how they choose to speak about their competitors. I don't really care all that much. I know from personal experience, companies who take the approach that public battles and lawsuits are how business is conducted. It usually backfires, eventually. What I'm saying is that when I choose where I spend my money, I typically choose not to do business with a company who takes the approach of bad-mouthing their competitors and I won't recommend that company to others either.
__________________
2001 Toyota Sequoia SR-5 4WD
2001 Toyota Rav4
2005 Starcraft Antigua 305QBS travel trailer Our Excellent Camping Adventures!
I've never had anything but excellent exchanges of information and top-notch support at the folks at Hensley Manufacturing Inc. (I think that's the proper name for the company, and I can't imagine you getting into any trouble for using their name of incorporation; by thinking and acting otherwise shows how deep this issue runs, I suppose).
I have yet to hear them utter to me, or post on a public forum, anything negative about another company. Most companies don't do that. I'm sure they would have a lot of interesting things to say as well, but it doesn't make sense as a way to generate business, as I see it. If there are problems of a legal nature, let the courts decide. As we all know, there are many ways to work around, or on the edge of, trademarks and patents. Welcome to globalization.
Every company can choose how to portray themselves and how they choose to speak about their competitors. I don't really care all that much. I know from personal experience, companies who take the approach that public battles and lawsuits are how business is conducted. It usually backfires, eventually. What I'm saying is that when I choose where I spend my money, I typically choose not to do business with a company who takes the approach of bad-mouthing their competitors and I won't recommend that company to others either.
I understand what you are saying. You just don't have all the facts. I don't bad mouth, I only state the facts. If the facts hurt you, don't read. You see, I KNOW they don't think anyone will confront them about their covert attacks. I know the inside and out of the owner's attitude and bullying tactics. I'm the wrong guy to use that strategy on and they are finding that out daily as I both sell more hitches than they do AND build a PROFITABLE company. It's only a matter of time... tick, tock, tick, tock.
I didn't file the lawsuit. They sued me and Jim Hensley for using his name. They lost in district court and they lost in U.S. Appeals court.
Since you have never seen any evidence of "bad mouthing" by the orange you can see it here. There are copies of actual emails sent to customers... Hensley Arrow Hitch Mfg Lies - My RV Talk
Or not. Just a suggestion. You might want to buy some extra parts for your hitch.
Well, as I said originally you're tops in bad-mouthing the competition. That bit of text doesn't come close. Congrats, you're a winner. ;-) Just not my first choice in a company I would want a relationship with, but that's just me.
I was going to be camped beside a ProPride this weekend but that won't be happening now (only the Hensley Arrow is showing up). I was looking forward to seeing if the differences were of any significance. I'll get another chance in 2-3 weeks.
BTW, what is the difference in the design of your adjustable hitch head vs. that of the Reese head used with their Mini 350, or that of the Equalizer? I haven't compared the three in any great detail but at first glimpse they would appear to be quite similar. Is that the case? If not why not?
__________________
2001 Toyota Sequoia SR-5 4WD
2001 Toyota Rav4
2005 Starcraft Antigua 305QBS travel trailer Our Excellent Camping Adventures!
I've been out of pocket for a while, but I dont mind chiming in on this thread.\
I don't know the inner workings of Hensley as a company and how they run their business. I also don't know the inner workings of Toyota, who made my Tundra, or Jayco, or Norcold, etc... - you get the picture. The point is, just about every business I'm sure, has an unsettling element within it, whether its a person or idea or practice. I, like any other consumer, was presented with information from multiple hitch companies, not just HA and PP. In the end, I decided on the HA and am happy with my decision. My gut instinct feeling in all of this was simple: Word of mouth. I heard many stories of very happy customers who had the HA, both with the product and the customer service before, during, and after the sale. Are there unhappy HA customers out there? Heck yes! I'm sure there are. But if you have never been unhappy with a product you have purchased before, especially an expensive one, then the world is officially flat. You take your chances. I took mine. I don't feel the need to justify this decision any longer.
I want businesses to do well, including ProPride. I have no problem with planes and multiple homes. Heck, I hope the owner of PP is able to get these things as well. How those rewards were gained will be left to judgment at a later date, but I cant lose sleep over this stuff. Being in medical training, I need all the sleep I can get.
BTW, what is the difference in the design of your adjustable hitch head vs. that of the Reese head used with their Mini 350, or that of the Equalizer? I haven't compared the three in any great detail but at first glimpse they would appear to be quite similar. Is that the case? If not why not?
The ProPride hitch bar has hitch box wedges and over-center-latch tabs.
I was going to be camped beside a ProPride this weekend but that won't be happening now (only the Hensley Arrow is showing up). I was looking forward to seeing if the differences were of any significance. I'll get another chance in 2-3 weeks.
Izzat so?
I bought a 3P based on the changes made from the HA. Sean, you're a stand-up guy and I'm glad I'm doing business with you, but I honestly don't think that you're doing yourself - or ProPride - any favours here. JMHO.
Geo, see you at Cardinal (grey tank arrival permitting)!
__________________
2008 Starcraft ST 2700BH behind 2005 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4x4.
Linked by ProPride 3P 1400, stopped by Prodigy, guided by Garmin nüvi 760.
I bought a 3P based on the changes made from the HA. Sean, you're a stand-up guy and I'm glad I'm doing business with you, but I honestly don't think that you're doing yourself - or ProPride - any favours here. JMHO.
Probably not, John. Telling the truth, and doing business that way, isn't always what people like. You can read above to find a factual representation of that. However, I DO sleep real well at night and my company is growing every single month. Could it be better by doing it differently? Probably. I know how to put together some real "marketing and sales speak" for prospects. But, again, I wouldn't sleep as well as I do.
Welp, didn't get to see that PP at Cardinal despite my pleading with JD. Foiled by a grey tank. Next year, I guess.
I still have a four-day November camping trip planned, and a 16-day December camping trip, so I'll keep my eyes out for a ProPride and maybe bend the ear of the owner.
__________________
2001 Toyota Sequoia SR-5 4WD
2001 Toyota Rav4
2005 Starcraft Antigua 305QBS travel trailer Our Excellent Camping Adventures!
Welp, didn't get to see that PP at Cardinal despite my pleading with JD. Foiled by a grey tank. Next year, I guess.
I still have a four-day November camping trip planned, and a 16-day December camping trip, so I'll keep my eyes out for a ProPride and maybe bend the ear of the owner.
Re: Well I did it, ordered a Hensley Arrow
(j/k guys of course)
Linear Mode
