As for the towing stability question, I tow a 5'er which sticks up in the air almost 12' and have pulled through some serious winds in New Mexico and Nebraska and the truck sat solid. I know its not the same as a TT but the big side exposure to the wind adds stability issues.
Yes, a FW inherently pulls more stable, but side/side up/down can still be substantial with the (usually) heavier pin weight, so your setup/experience applies to TT towing in many ways. I guess a significant difference between the two would be the use of springs/air-bags vs a WD hitch.
I notice you have the Michelin LT tires and "helper springs". Curious about which tire you went with and why helper spring vs air. I've read various discussions on the spring vs air, but I'm curious about your specific reasons. Also, did you ever pull that FW with P tires?
I think you are trying to search for an answer that cannot be found. I've read many of your other posts including ones on brakes, HP/TQ ratings, etc. All I can say from my little experience of driving 07+ trucks including Chev, Ford, and the Tundra is that the Tundra drives better hands down. The reason I use little experience is that the Chevs and the Fords I drive are work vehicles, and I don't know all the detail besides the size of the engine. I know all the manufacturers have different ratings but sometimes the real world test says it all. Unfortunately most people don't get the chance to compare all the vehicles for their particular purpose especially towing. Your posts reminds me of some other members on this forum that were the Chevy guy or Ford guy throwing out the statistics. Some of them even bought a Tundra eventually. I guess the jist of my ramblings is that I wished you could try out the Tundra in the real world to see what kind of difference it really has compared to the competition (especially towing). You will never know that answer from you questions without physically hooking up your trailer to the Tundra and taking it for a long spin. I think you mentioned that the 5.3 was plenty of power you needed, but my opinion is you would be much happier and impressed with the Tundra's drivetrain. I know how much I smile going up the long inclines and passing the long line of trucks.
As for your original post, I have towed with the stock P rated tires and the BFG AT's in E rating. Originally I thought the P's handled the lateral stability better, but bounced way too much. The E rated tires definitely handle better, but I've still had problems with the lateral stability (sway feeling). Most of it was with the tire pressure, and I still haven't found the correct pressure. By no means does it feel dangerous, but it's still not where I want it. If adjusting the pressure doesn't make it any better, then I'm going to add the sway bars. I have the Airlift 5000 airbags as well. If I had to do it again, I would go with the helper spings instead. Then I wouldn't have to keep adjusting the pressure when loaded and unloaded. The remote option would be great but it's pretty spendy. I cannot say the lateral stability is any better or worse than the competition. IMO the lateral stability or feel actually got worse with my E rated tires, but everyone always say its due to too much air pressure. I've brought it down to 38psi in the rear unloaded, and on the highway it still fees squirly changing lanes. I didn't have that feeling with the P rated.
I went from a 3/4 ton to the Tundra, towing the same trailer. The biggest difference to me was heavier springs on the Dodge, and much worse ride, much worse handling overall, and much much worse fuel economy.
The addition of air bags completely prevents wallow in the rear end, aired up to 60 PSI when towing (my rear axle on the scale is 4,800 lbs when most recently checked, with full load of everything) and clearly the 10 ply tires are a must.
I've heard that there's even less tendency to sway if the rear sway bar is installed, a $250 or so investment I've yet to do.
I also towed my 5th wheel trailer with a F-150 (fully boxed frame and all) and I couldn't tell any difference in frame stiffness.
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Radiant Red 2007 Double Cab Limited w/Graphite Leather Interior
Factory Nav, Sonar, and 10 spkr 440W JBL stereo with Sirius (sweet) Cold Weather Pkg and Block Heater. Brushed SS Stepboards,
Tires: BFG All Terrain T/A KO LT265 65 R 18, Diamondback Tonneau Cover.
Curt Front Receiver, custom 8" extension, & Warn 8000lb winch back/front mountable,
Tekonsha Prodigy Brake Controller DSP 16,000 lb 5th wheel hitch Firestone Ride Rite 2445 Air Bags
crah, I had the exact opposite feeling when going P to E. I felt like the stock tires were just mush under the truck no mater the pressure. If I cornered hard I could feel them roll. In towing it was like the tires were letting the set up sway.
My tires are, toyo Open Country H/T LT275/70R18 125S E/10, good for 3640 lbs.
I do not off road, and work takes me all over the country at different times of the year. A little bit of snow and the truck stayed parked at the hotel and I took the day off, I have yet to see how the new tires do in the snow.
My take on air vs helper. It seamed to be about the same price, air was adjustable. I put over 4000 in the bed for a short trip (10 min drive @ 40mph) and the bags handled it like a champ.
__________________
2008 DCLB work truck, diamond plate running boards , Firestone air bags
95 civic HB b18c1 “built” toy
I went with the Michelin LTX A/T 2 "E" rated, as for the springs they are adjustable for how firm I would like them to be, flip side is when I am not carrying load they have very little, if any, effect on the ride and I don't have to let air in and out of them. I pulled this 5'er with my 2000 Tundra before and had D rated tires on it so I immediately swapped out the tires when I got the truck to the E rated as a D rated isn't available in this Michelin 18". I run 60 psi when I am towing and drop it to 45 psi when I am not.
I have Michelin LTX M/S on the 5'er as an added bonus.
2005 Rockwood 26' 5'er, Michelin LTX MS tires, 270 watts of solar on the roof, 4 T-105 golf cart batteries, Xentrex converter, Outback FX2012T inverter/charger.
If you can't take it with ya, why bother with an RV!
2000 Tundra (bought 9/9/99)
JBA Headers
Gone but not forgotten~
crah, I had the exact opposite feeling when going P to E. I felt like the stock tires were just mush under the truck no mater the pressure. If I cornered hard I could feel them roll. In towing it was like the tires were letting the set up sway.
My tires are, toyo Open Country H/T LT275/70R18 125S E/10, good for 3640 lbs.
I do not off road, and work takes me all over the country at different times of the year. A little bit of snow and the truck stayed parked at the hotel and I took the day off, I have yet to see how the new tires do in the snow.
My take on air vs helper. It seamed to be about the same price, air was adjustable. I put over 4000 in the bed for a short trip (10 min drive @ 40mph) and the bags handled it like a champ.
I think my experience had more to do with the wrong tire pressure with my E's. I agree the P rated tires were not good. Especially the bounce. I didn't feel the roll that much on turns compared to what you had though. I have the BFG AT 285 65 R18 in E rating. I tried the Nitto Terra Grapplers in the same size and didn't like them for the sway either. I would still like to compare them once I put on the sway bar though. What pressure do you use in the rear when towing?
i run 80 in the rear when towing, remember though i can have a high tongue weight, never mind all the stuff in the cap in the back. The first time I put this trailer on the tundra, the jack bottomed out before the truck got done going down. Trailer was loaded like it was ready to be towed by my dads 2001 Chevy 3500 duelie, it was funny till we had to start moving things around in the trailer. Trailer never needed wdh before lol. That said with my set up the tundra gets better mileage than the duelie towing the trailer and feels about the same power wise.
__________________
2008 DCLB work truck, diamond plate running boards , Firestone air bags
95 civic HB b18c1 “built” toy
Music,
I've read many of your other posts including ones on brakes, HP/TQ ratings, etc.
I guess the jist of my ramblings is that I wished you could try out the Tundra in the real world to see what kind of difference it really has compared to the competition (especially towing). You will never know that answer from you questions without physically hooking up your trailer to the Tundra and taking it for a long spin. I think you mentioned that the 5.3 was plenty of power you needed, but my opinion is you would be much happier and impressed with the Tundra's drivetrain.
Generally, I don't try to argue GM vs Tundra (or any other truck), but sometimes things are said that are too questionable to ignore, so I tend to jump in. Maybe I shouldn't...?
A real life towing test with my camper would be good. I came close to buying a Tundra before buying my current truck, and test drove a CM recently (since buying the larger camper)... although I'm not overly enamored with the CM design. I'm certain that the power/gearing advantage over my current truck would be appreciated, but I can't justify spending a bunch of $$ just so I can pull the occasional steep ascent a little faster or at a few hundred lower rpm. I decided other issues need to be considered over brute power, with the most important being handling (like this thread). On rolling terrain, which is 95% or better of what I drive, the truck hums along in 3rd from 50 to 65 mph without any need to downshift, and I pretty easily run 11 to 12 mpg hwy pulling our camper on ~hilly roads around here (13k lbs total combined weight with everyone/everything on-board) @ 60 to 65 mph. That's not bad, but I have no idea about the 5.7...?
Generally, I don't try to argue GM vs Tundra (or any other truck), but sometimes things are said that are too questionable to ignore, so I tend to jump in. Maybe I shouldn't...?
A real life towing test with my camper would be good. I came close to buying a Tundra before buying my current truck, and test drove a CM recently (since buying the larger camper)... although I'm not overly enamored with the CM design. I'm certain that the power/gearing advantage over my current truck would be appreciated, but I can't justify spending a bunch of $$ just so I can pull the occasional steep ascent a little faster or at a few hundred lower rpm. I decided other issues need to be considered over brute power, with the most important being handling (like this thread). On rolling terrain, which is 95% or better of what I drive, the truck hums along in 3rd from 50 to 65 mph without any need to downshift, and I pretty easily run 11 to 12 mpg hwy pulling our camper on ~hilly roads around here (13k lbs total combined weight with everyone/everything on-board) @ 60 to 65 mph. That's not bad, but I have no idea about the 5.7...?
I know some of the die hard posts on here are hard to ignor, but most of them can be entertaining. Especially the ones that think the Tundra is the fastest, strongest, most powerful truck ever made. And then of course there's the ones that talk about nothing but speed. There are also a lot of members that you can obviously tell it's their first truck. I tend to mostly read those for pure entertainment. On the other hand, there are plenty of people on this forum that have had plenty of "truck" experience, and have a lot of knowledge on comparison. Like i said before, it's almost a "you have to see it to believe it". I was a skeptic before I bought mine, especially since I grew up from a loyal GM family. My 5th wheel comes in at about 8500 to 9000 pounds depending on how much I load it. I have experiemented over the past couple of months on the best towing set up and I'm not done yet. For mileage, I got between 11-12 mpg with my P rated tires going 65. Now I get about 9-10 mpg with my BFG AT's going 65 traveling the same route. I travel pretty frequently to the Grand Canyon so it is pretty hilly terrain. I'm not fully done with my set up yet, and I would really like to give the sway bar a try to see what kind of difference it really makes. As for you original question, I really don't think there is much difference in the lateral movement between the lines. I'm sure the 3/4 ton+ feels more stable when towing the same load for several reasons including heavier suspension components and the heavier weight of the tow vehicle itself.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people on this forum that have had plenty of "truck" experience, and have a lot of knowledge on comparison. Like i said before, it's almost a "you have to see it to believe it". I was a skeptic before I bought mine, especially since I grew up from a loyal GM family.
That's another reason to post in the towing thread, since most Tundra owners who do real towing have broader experience and think about a lot more than just power and 0-60 times. I appreciate hearing actual experience. I'm not at all skeptical of the Tundra's power for towing, since the numbers are pretty clear.
Side topic: The GM 6.0/6-spd and 6.2/6-spd perform similarly, so if I got serious about "moving up the power curve without going to a 2500HD" and was considering the $$ for "new", I'd also price a NHT pkg (6.2/6-spd, 1900 payload, hybrid axle, disc brakes). One problem (for me) would be that I could probably pick up a 2500HD w/ the 6.0/6-spd for a similar price (the CrewMax's I've seen are pricey, even in "Grade" trim). The mpg on the 6.0HD engine is not good though, and the ride is stiff, so it isn't preferred for a daily driver.
My 5'er empty weights about 6,600 pounds (pin weight is 930), with the '00 Tundra I loaded no more than was needed trying to keep the weight down, now with the'07 Tundra I haven't loaded much more but the extras we do carry now I don't worry about the weight so much. The max on the 5'er is 8,100 lbs so I have to watch that my bride doesn't get carried away when I am not looking just the same .
2005 Rockwood 26' 5'er, Michelin LTX MS tires, 270 watts of solar on the roof, 4 T-105 golf cart batteries, Xentrex converter, Outback FX2012T inverter/charger.
If you can't take it with ya, why bother with an RV!
2000 Tundra (bought 9/9/99)
JBA Headers
Gone but not forgotten~
My 5'er empty weights about 6,600 pounds (pin weight is 930), with the '00 Tundra I loaded no more than was needed trying to keep the weight down, now with the'07 Tundra I haven't loaded much more but the extras we do carry now I don't worry about the weight so much. The max on the 5'er is 8,100 lbs so I have to watch that my bride doesn't get carried away when I am not looking just the same .
Between my wife and three kids... boy do I know what you mean. It sounds like you're camper is a perfect match for the Tundra.
We have sort of turned it into a two person rig, tossed out the hide-a-bed and replaced it with two swivel recliners. It isn't a big rig but for two people it works quite well.
2005 Rockwood 26' 5'er, Michelin LTX MS tires, 270 watts of solar on the roof, 4 T-105 golf cart batteries, Xentrex converter, Outback FX2012T inverter/charger.
If you can't take it with ya, why bother with an RV!
2000 Tundra (bought 9/9/99)
JBA Headers
Gone but not forgotten~
We have sort of turned it into a two person rig, tossed out the hide-a-bed and replaced it with two swivel recliners. It isn't a big rig but for two people it works quite well.
Hank: I should have asked you this also. You went from the 4.7 to the 5.7. Excluding the larger truck itself, how do you feel the performance compares overall? (A lot of that will be the 6-spd and overall gearing points.) Given your experience, and if the 4.6 had been available, would you have considered it instead?
Re: 07+ Tundra Lateral Stability?
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Linear Mode
