I thought the 4.7 did okay on the open road but serious grades, 6% & 7% made it work. Better gears would have helped for sure. I think stock it was 245 HP and 325 torque, I put JBA headers on which really improved the torque from 3k on up. I wanted the 5.7 for sure when I went with the new Tundra and it makes me smile big time when we hit those serious grades. Maybe this new 4.6 would be just fine but its limit is like 8,000 lbs and that is only 500 lbs. more than my old Tundra, not stout enough in my book.
2005 Rockwood 26' 5'er, Michelin LTX MS tires, 270 watts of solar on the roof, 4 T-105 golf cart batteries, Xentrex converter, Outback FX2012T inverter/charger.
If you can't take it with ya, why bother with an RV!
2000 Tundra (bought 9/9/99)
JBA Headers
Gone but not forgotten~
My first trip home with my 10,000lbs camper was literally on ice. Tundra did fine.
On the way up to Michigan (400m trip) my pigtail got cut in half, I did half the drive with no trailer brakes or lights until I could get another pig tail. Truck stopped the trailer just like it did in the commercials.
On the way back from Michigan I weighed the rig...right under 16,000lbs GVCWR. Scariest thing was I found out my weight distribution hitch put 2000lbs on my hitch. It was also very windy 35-45mph crosswind gusts the entire way no problem. Truck doesn't care that the camper is there.
This weekend I pulled it up a 21% grade in WV (family owned, private country road). The camper dragged for 3 feet and stopped the truck (road was wet, it was raining). Popped it into 4hi and took right off up the grade...I had to take the sway/tension bars off the equalizer before attempting because they said it wasn't decided to go up such a grade.
jbubh: That's impressive to say the least. I don't think our idea of "doesn't know it's back there" is the same, since I can move trucks this size around with my hand, but I understand what you're saying (i.e., power-wise, it doesn't miss a beat). You guys are impressing me with your towing experiences w/ the 5.7.
What is the Tundra hitch rating? Are you saying that the hitch apply weight (after the WD hitch is engaged) is 2k lbs?
Most every thread I read the biggest stability improvement in the Tundra with large trailers is going with 10 ply tires. As I only tow large enclosed trailers (8K-10K lbs) maybe 12 weekends out of the year I'm not willing to sacrifice the better ride of the P-rated tires for DD. Most of my trailering is with my ~3K trailer+car that I tow for autocross and the P tires are just fine for that. Though I'm looking at buying a Genesis Coupe as a DD/track car so I may put 10 ply tires on the Tundra then. With the P rated tires the tundra does squirm and jiggle side to side on them from the big trailers through as any truck would with tall soft sidewalls.
It would be nice if there was a 6 or 8 ply tire for the Tundra 18" wheels though.
You could get a pair/ set of 10 plies for the season and switch off to the P's for the rest of the year. Now that you have gone enclosed, it is a big difference than the open trailer
Quote:
Originally Posted by crah
I know some of the die hard posts on here are hard to ignor, but most of them can be entertaining. Especially the ones that think the Tundra is the fastest, strongest, most powerful truck ever made. And then of course there's the ones that talk about nothing but speed. As for you original question, I really don't think there is much difference in the lateral movement between the lines. I'm sure the 3/4 ton+ feels more stable when towing the same load for several reasons including heavier suspension components and the heavier weight of the tow vehicle itself.
There is a lot of don't feel it back there and I can do 90 up a steep grade towing 5 tons.
In reality, if you cannot feel it, you should not be driving it. I can feel a half ton utility trailer, it does slow you down a little. I think that bragging only confuses people. we all got the same brand truck here, we know what it can do.
I do agree that comparing a 5k 1/2 ton with a 8k lb hd truck is apples to oranges. stiffer springs and tires are standard.
For the tires, my 2 cents is as much as the weight, the height of the trailer dictates the tires. For an open trailer, any old tire that can carry the weight will do unless it is long and a lot of tight turns. when you get into enclosed trailer, you need a trailer tire that has the stiff sidewalls for sway control. And that goes to the truck. And whether you have 4,6,8,10 or more tread plies, that is irrelevant excluding the weight.
The thing to look for is the sidewall plies. that is the thing that gives you a stiffer ride. and reduces the sway. that is why some p rated tire are as good as 10 plies.
To the OP, the trap. springs do help but if you get to a heavy trailer, it just isn't enough.
You could get a pair/ set of 10 plies for the season and switch off to the P's for the rest of the year. Now that you have gone enclosed, it is a big difference than the open trailer
I only don't tow 3 months of the year. And I already have problem storing all my race tires, don't need extra truck tires too
__________________
~Michael
2008 Toyota Tundra 5.7 2WD - Toy Hauler / 2006 Toyota Sienna Limited - Kid Hauler / 1993 Toyota MR2 - Autocross Car
Mods: Tekonsha P3; Tow Mirrors; TRD Wheels; TPMS Pipe Bomb
jbubh: That's impressive to say the least. I don't think our idea of "doesn't know it's back there" is the same, since I can move trucks this size around with my hand, but I understand what you're saying (i.e., power-wise, it doesn't miss a beat). You guys are impressing me with your towing experiences w/ the 5.7.
What is the Tundra hitch rating? Are you saying that the hitch apply weight (after the WD hitch is engaged) is 2k lbs?
I used to tow a 27ft trailer with a tacoma, compared to it and older trucks I have towed with, the Tundra handles the weight like a pro. Of course I know that it's back there, I accelerate slower, can't see out my rearview mirror, but once I get up to highway speeds I just set the cruise at 70mph and go, drive like I normally do.
I am not sure how much weight the w/d hitch causes to be on the hitch as I've never taken the truck through a scale without it attached. I am driving it 1000 miles to Disney this weekend. I will stop at a Cat Scale along the way, weigh it again, drop the w/d bars, and weigh it again. I did shift a lot of stuff around in the camper once I found out I was putting 2K on the truck. In all honesty if I didn't weigh it I would have continued driving it around like that non-the-wiser. I don't expect my axles to break or fall off either by overloading the truck. However, I do want the truck to last so I will try my best to stick to the manufacturer recommendations.
I assume that without the w/d on that most of the tongue will be on the rear axle...which if I recall (you can look for the thread on it) from my weigh in that I was at the max on the rear and 60lbs short of the GAWR on the front. So it did do it's job.
I assume that without the w/d on that most of the tongue will be on the rear axle...which if I recall (you can look for the thread on it) from my weigh in that I was at the max on the rear and 60lbs short of the GAWR on the front. So it did do it's job.
Off-topic (and probably redundant to other threads on here...?)
Without WD engaged: The rearward slant of the truck with the load attached will put more weight on the rear axle than just the trailer tongue weight. None of the tongue weight will transfer to the front axle, but will actually lighten it (i.e., the rearward slant will transfer front weight to the rear). Same for the trailer: forward/down slant will put more weight on the rear of the truck than if it were setting level. The only way to accurately measure tongue weight is "disconnected from the truck", with camper sitting level.
I estimate by weighing at the CAT scale connected with full fuel and full camper. I connect the WD hitch, and then go to the CAT scale and weigh with the camper loaded, getting the total weight for vehicle front/rear axle and trailer axles. Assuming nobody else is with me and the truck is empty, from those numbers I can estimate actual (in use) payload on the truck:
P = (front + rear axle + everyone/everything else - empty truck). If everyone/everything else is with you when you measure... then it's just (total axle weight - empty truck).
For a "properly configured" WD hitch (truck/trailer sitting level), assume that only a few percent of the dead tongue weight will be "distributed" to the trailer axle. So... tongue weight can be approximated by: P / 0.95.
The 5% is just a number I picked from a range of values I've seen.
Of course, the better way is to actually weigh the tongue, but I don't have a good scale and haven't seen a real need.
Actually, it still has some of the effect of lifting the front even with the w/d. As you can see in this photo:
The trailer is even a little high to level in the front which should cause less weight to be on the truck, but somehow there is still over a ton of force pushing down on the truck.
I can't tell from the photo, but a "properly configured" WD hitch should not allow the front end to lift. The back end will settle, but the front should be the same height as unloaded. You'll notice from my estimation above, that I use total vehicle weight... so the exact front/rear distribution isn't considered... but it is assumed that the trailer is sitting level. For axle ratings, you look at the actual "live load" on each, with the WD engaged.
I'm not the "weight police", but 2k of tongue weight is awfully high. I don't think a 1-ton dually is rated for that kind of weight on the hitch (since hitches don't go that high), and I don't recall seeing any WD systems rated anywhere near that either. Do you have your three axle measurements handy (or a link on here somewhere)?
Music just stop by and we'll trade trucks for a day and afterwards you can buy me dinner, cause i'll save you so much heart ache that you'll just Upgrade to the Tundra, the truck that Tow's like a Diesel yet performs and get fuel economy like No other... and that's fact...
Recently drove 920 mile to LA and back from Sacramento area here in Ca. and mind you on the way down drove steadily around 75mph and got roughly 19-20mpg which is dam good considering Ca is very hilly, your rarely on flat ground for long...now on the way home I'm tired and ready to just get there so i'm driving 80-90mph much of the way and I figured I averaged something like 17mpg the the entire trip, this was in a single day too... I knew i got much better mileage on the way there than back, so i'm aware that the trip back was much less than average, but very few trucks would have gotten the mpg we got driving as quickly as we did this day... 920 miles in less than 15 hrs, stopped to eat three times and took care of business while in LA for nearly 1 hr... Hauled some butt for a days drive. I know my Previous F250 7.3 would have drank plenty of fuel to say the least, yet Ultra Low Sulfur wasn't meant to be its fuel of choice either, hence the much worse mpg...
Just know if you try a Tundra, you'll be very impressed with many things and Power mated to the Best 6spd you've ever felt is for sure the Biggest, No doubt in my mind... Stock truck to truck, the Tundra has little if no competition.... Just over built TRD tough. And I owned that F250 and loved it a 2002 awesome truck with 4.3 gears, this Tundra would crush it towing,,, cause that Ford had to be at speed pulling a load or it would loose speed on the hill and blow Black exhaust everywhere and EGT's would climb too high,,, the Tundra can start at the bottom and gain speed all the way...Fact and get better mpg too...
I can go on and on, my Superduty wasn't stock either.... This Tundra is a Real Player in this Competitive Truck Market, just look at the Driveline and dont let the 5 lugs fool ya, that's the only weak link if that's a weakness. Do upgrade Tires to E's and life is much better in Any truck.. I love adjustable shocks that you can dial up when towing and soften back when not, helps with bounce and ride comfort when towing heavy tongue loads a bunch,, load never gets movin, always under control..
I currently drive a GMC Sierra (08 4x4 CrewCab), and tow a 32 ft (bumper/tongue) camper. This is my setup:
Camper = 7k lbs loaded
Heavy tongue (~1100 lbs)
Reese dual cam w/ 1200 lb bars
Truck is still stock (P rated AT tires, 5.3, etc.)
I have test driven the Tundra a few times (once recently) and have a good feel for the power it offers. The ~20% extra power would be nice in the mountains, but the 5.3 handles the load well enough, so I probably wouldn't spend a bunch of money just for a little more torque.
However, I'm curious about handling. The Toyota sales info shows the "trapezoidal leaf spring" setup, with the claim that it helps with lateral control. The Tundra uses open C whereas the GMT900 (07+) are full boxed. Both have similar spring rates. I can't go hook my trailer up to a Tundra for a test, so I'm asking here. Compared to other (preferably recent model) 1/2 ton trucks, how do you feel the Tundra handles getting pushed around--i.e., how "stable" is it? My own gut feeling, based solely on reading and looking, is that it probably isn't much different than my Sierra, but experience from those of you who tow with one would be appreciated. I've read a lot here about the power, gearing and brake advantages for towing, but not much with regard to overall handling (compared to other brands). Especially on long trips, handling (stability) is the most important factor for me.
I presently tow a trailer similar in specs to yours. I use Reese dual cam, Firestone air bags, Reese brake controller and Mich 10 ply AT/2's.
The air bags and 10 ply tires improved things but you certainly know the trailer is behind you.
I previously had an '03 5.3L Sierra Z71 with tow package but I didn't tow this trailer with it. I had a much smaller trailer ( 22 foot - 4500 lbs ) which I also towed for 1 summer with the Tundra. Both trucks handled that trailer fine. But as you pointed out, Tundra's power, 6 speed tranny and the brakes were improvements over the ' 03 GMC. One thing that surprised me is how the Tundra squatted down with the small trailer. When I first bought the Tundra I thought that I would have to lower the hitch on the shank / readjust the tilt etc to level my trailer since the rear of the Tundra and hitch sat much higher than the GM. To my surprise, I actually had to raise it.
I towed the present trailer with a 3/4 ton Chev. IMO, if stability is your main concern with trailers like ours, I would go to a 3/4 ton.
I towed the present trailer with a 3/4 ton Chev. IMO, if stability is your main concern with trailers like ours, I would go to a 3/4 ton.
So, you've towed the same trailer (similar size to mine) with both the Tundra and a 2500HD? Thanks for sharing the experience. If so, which do you prefer "overall", taking into account that a person may use the truck not towing most of the time. That's somewhat a loaded question, since when you are towing, you want maximum stability and safety.
Yes, for me, stability with a load is much more important than how fast I get up a hill or from 0 to 60, but we can't ignore cost or day-to-day economy either. Economy and maneuverability/comfort for daily driving are key reasons for making a "1/2-ton" work "well enough".
That said, while considering this, I've also looked at 2500HD trucks. Based on my initial checks, I can buy a GMC 2500HD Crew with the 6.0HD engine for about the same $ (or less) than an equivalently equipped CrewMax or GMC 1500 Crew NHT (6.2/6-spd/3.73 1900 lb payload pkg).
Upgrade to the Tundra, the truck that Tow's like a Diesel yet performs and get fuel economy like No other... and that's fact...
I like the fuel economy part Do you tow a substantial load with the Tundra? Are you saying that it handles the same load (stability) better than the F250, or just that it pulls better?
I just towed my camper from OH to FL and back this weekend, 2400 miles round trip. I had no problems whatsoever with lateral stability. I did have one problem on the way back. I bought one of those bolt on receivers for the bumper and put a bike carrier in the back to carry 3 bikes. Probably 100+lbs on the bumper. On the way down there was no problems. On the way back I had a very rough ride. Usually I keep 1/3 tank of water which is in the front of the camper as ballast. I had to winterize before I brought it back to Ohio so I drained the tanks. On rough bumps and potholes it would feel like the suspension bottomed out front and back wheels. I think it was because the back of the trailer was heavier and that lifted the tongue which pushes down on the equalizer bars which in turn push down on both axles of the truck. I noticed that less air in the airbags made it a lil better.
when I had my old camper around 6500lbs I never put the wdh on and I just towed it everywhere, no problems, very nice ride. Without bikes and a heavy (2k tongue) I had a nice ride...I'm not sure if it's the equalizer or just a bad balanced trailer but my last ride wasn't as nice. Even though it had more weight on the back I still had no sway in high crosswinds going over the smokies.
Re: 07+ Tundra Lateral Stability?
Do you tow a substantial load with the Tundra? Are you saying that it handles the same load (stability) better than the F250, or just that it pulls better?
Linear Mode
