07+ Tundra Lateral Stability? - Toyota Tundra Forums : Tundra Solutions Forum

music · #1 (**permalink**) 09-30-2009, 06:32 PM

I currently drive a GMC Sierra (08 4x4 CrewCab), and tow a 32 ft (bumper/tongue) camper. This is my setup:

Camper = 7k lbs loaded
Heavy tongue (~1100 lbs)
Reese dual cam w/ 1200 lb bars
Truck is still stock (P rated AT tires, 5.3, etc.)

I have test driven the Tundra a few times (once recently) and have a good feel for the power it offers. The ~20% extra power would be nice in the mountains, but the 5.3 handles the load well enough, so I probably wouldn't spend a bunch of money just for a little more torque.

However, I'm curious about handling. The Toyota sales info shows the "trapezoidal leaf spring" setup, with the claim that it helps with lateral control. The Tundra uses open C whereas the GMT900 (07+) are full boxed. Both have similar spring rates. I can't go hook my trailer up to a Tundra for a test, so I'm asking here. Compared to other (preferably recent model) 1/2 ton trucks, how do you feel the Tundra handles getting pushed around--i.e., how "stable" is it? My own gut feeling, based solely on reading and looking, is that it probably isn't much different than my Sierra, but experience from those of you who tow with one would be appreciated. I've read a lot here about the power, gearing and brake advantages for towing, but not much with regard to overall handling (compared to other brands). Especially on long trips, handling (stability) is the most important factor for me.

The Raisin · #2 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 01:47 AM

My trailer is just under 5K and has a fairly light tongue weight of about 600# or so. I run E rated tires, airbags and dual sway contols on my WD hitch. I have had zero problems towing my trailer. It tracks perfect on the straights and on the turns. Merging into traffic and changing lanes is no problem. My trailer also sits fairly low compared to others and wind resistance has not been an issue yet. Crosswinds and the push you sometimes get when semis go buy do not seem to upset my truck/trailer at all. Maybe I have just been lucky so far, but I enjoy towing with my Tundra. Hope this helps ya!

Mark

music · #3 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 08:32 AM

Thanks for the reply, it sounds like you have a nice setup. I wanted to comment that I do realize how much weight distribution plays into stability. However, I've never heard anyone move from a 1500 to a 2500HD who didn't comment about how stable it was compared to their 1500. Generally, everything else was the same (sway bars, trailer, etc.), so the only change was the truck. On the truck side, we have weight, frame, axles, hitch system, springs and tires to affect "down the road" handling. Since the Tundra uses a different design than my Sierra, I'm curious if it is a noticeable improvement, no change, or worse. Nobody on here seems to be complaining (probably ruling out "worse"), but I'm curious about whether you would say it's "about the same" or "better" than a similar setup on another 1/2-ton platform.

MTeator · #4 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 10:08 AM

Most every thread I read the biggest stability improvement in the Tundra with large trailers is going with 10 ply tires. As I only tow large enclosed trailers (8K-10K lbs) maybe 12 weekends out of the year I'm not willing to sacrifice the better ride of the P-rated tires for DD. Most of my trailering is with my ~3K trailer+car that I tow for autocross and the P tires are just fine for that. Though I'm looking at buying a Genesis Coupe as a DD/track car so I may put 10 ply tires on the Tundra then. With the P rated tires the tundra does squirm and jiggle side to side on them from the big trailers through as any truck would with tall soft sidewalls.

It would be nice if there was a 6 or 8 ply tire for the Tundra 18" wheels though.

music · #5 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTeator

With the P rated tires the tundra does squirm and jiggle side to side on them from the big trailers through as any truck would with tall soft sidewalls.

It would be nice if there was a 6 or 8 ply tire for the Tundra 18" wheels though.

Your towing experience helps a lot. I haven't gotten serious about LT tires for my truck yet (for the same reasons), but just looking around at the brands/types that catch my eye (especially Michelin LTX A/T2), the E tire is the most common for my GM too (265/70-17).

nomadic · #6 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 01:56 PM

i tow a lot, 10 ply tires make all the difference

music · #7 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadic

i tow a lot, 10 ply tires make all the difference

By "all the difference", I'm assuming we're talking about "tail wiggle", or does it help stabilize movement all-around? I noticed in your sig that "air bags installed soon". I've read mixed info on using air bags and a WD hitch system together. Any experience/input on that? I'm guessing it depends on how strong the WD hitch bars are?

Edit: I did a quick search and found some useful forum discussions about E tires for towing. This one was pretty good: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f438...-e-7068-2.html . Certainly sounds like E tires may be a key consideration.

The Raisin · #8 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 11:01 PM

I think that the biggest difference from a 1500 to a 25/3500 on bone stock trucks is the tires. I am pretty sure that the tires on the 25/3500 trucks are at least LT tires. Whereas the 1500 come with P rated tires. I could not get the P tires off fast enough when I bought my Tundra. Still can't figure out why they put P tires on trucks with tow packages. I actually never towed a trailer with my Tundra with the P rated tires. The stock tires are garbarge. If you put a decent LT tire on your truck you will notice a huge difference.

Mark

music · #9 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Raisin

I am pretty sure that the tires on the 25/3500 trucks are at least LT tires.

...

If you put a decent LT tire on your truck you will notice a huge difference.

Yes, the HD trucks usually get E tires stock. As much as I don't want to pull the stock tires (Wrangler A/T) off of my truck (they're like new and perform very well otherwise), everything that I'm reading indicates that E tires offer the best bang/$ when it comes to "wallowing". Since I'm towing a pretty heavy load, and we're planning a long trip (out west), all of the info I'm reading is telling me that LT tires should be on my prep list.

nomadic · #10 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 11:47 AM

I tow a 10,000 pound 18 foot tool trailer give or take 2000 depending on what I have with me. I think the trailer is 2000 empty.

I have the air bags on (I’m just a bad person lol and have not updated my sig)

I have a WDH with a sway

I stared towing the trailer completely stock. It was impossible over 45 mph. it’s just hard to move things around in the trailer to get a good 60/40 distribution over the axels. 4 small gang boxes 100 to 500, 1 large with 3000 punds in it, 2 welders, horizontal band saw like 8 tool boxes, forklift boom 600, well you get the idea. It was move some things back and induce insane sway or move some things up and bottom out the truck.

5 miles into the first tow trip we added the WDH and sway. I was then able to move things around in the trailer a little more reasonably and not get to much sway. It still moved around, and I really felt the bad spots on the hwy. I have done about 2000 miles like this.

I didn’t need to tow the trailer for about 20,000 miles, or 6 months lol, but did a lot of trips with 600 to 2000 pounds in the bed.

Bought firestone ride rites, installed, then 2 weeks later installed the 10 plys, (toyos).

Since the install I have done about 5000 miles with the trailer, and have tried different things.

The best combo I got was max pressure in all tires (65 trailer, 85 truck) I put the trailer on and set up the WDH and sway appropriately, then put abut 50 psi in the bags. Like this it tows great. I will say that I feel like I’m pushing the truck when going up hills etc. I think I have 2 much stuff, but it’s all tools I work with so have no way to trim back…

My family has had 2 homes since before I was born, a house somewhere and a full time rv. I can’t remember us not upgrading tires on Tow vehicles or on trailers.

And about the duel, boxed frame, c channel, hydro formed, I-beam, whatever new buzzword frame, all class 8 trucks come with C frames.

You might want to try adding 1000 pounds of capacity to the rear tires.
“Truck is still stock (P rated AT tires, 5.3, etc.)”
What I did was look on tire manufactures sites and see what was offered in my size. You will gain a lot of stability with some tires that have a more rigid side wall. I felt that the truck was not that stable, when I added the E’s it felt better under all circumstances.

music · #11 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadic

I tow a 10,000 pound 18 foot tool trailer give or take 2000 depending on what I have with me. I think the trailer is 2000 empty.
...

Excellent post, that's quite a load you're pulling. Thanks for the feedback! As for the "c vs boxed vs...", my earlier mention of it wasn't intended as a comparison, simply that the two use different designs and that they each have their own characteristics, with springs, shocks, etc, to match the frame design. I just didn't know if the Tundra design offered anything special with regard to "stability". Sounds like they're about the same overall, and that the real culprit lies in the tires, and then maybe supplemental suspension (WD hitch, air bags, etc.).

The HD trucks (2500HD) I've used handled more solid without anything extra added, but a lot of that has probably been due to the tires & springs. With heavy payload, the extra beefiness of the axles, hubs, frame, etc. start to matter, but more from a wear/tear perspective than handling.

music · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 02:44 PM

A bit of a sideline question: if you put E tires on the Tundra, can the dealer change the tire pressure monitor (TPM) settings? I know they can on my Sierra (using the GM TECH-II), but I'm curious about the Tundra.

nomadic · #13 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 05:36 PM

i didn't have the dealer change mine, but i monitor my tires my self like any responsible car owner should... parents 2001 chevy 3500 has yoko's 10 ply and one had a leak, front driver, at 10 psi you could not tell or feel it on the road. i remember as a kid my dads f350 (80's) had Springfield Kelly ? and a at the trailer park we stopped at he pulled out a 3 inch nail that went in hit the steel belts and bent back out, think U, tire was fine. I feel a lot safer on 10 ply going down the hwy knowing that they can take more abuse. All so I have found U turns in cities a lot easier with my 10 plys…

Tankerhank · #14 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 05:38 PM

Yes the TPMS sensors can be rest to higher pressures, only you do not have to go to Toyota to do it if you don't want to, I had Discount Tire do it when I put the Michelins on, the have the computer to plug into the truck.

Tankerhank · #15 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 05:41 PM

As for the towing stability question, I tow a 5'er which sticks up in the air almost 12' and have pulled through some serious winds in New Mexico and Nebraska and the truck sat solid. I know its not the same as a TT but the big side exposure to the wind adds stability issues.