Real towing feelings.

[ricqik]

Alright guys be serious. I tow a 2900lbs boat quite often spring to fall and I notice a big loss in towing power. And when I tow a 2ton car on a dolly I really feel the difference. All my friend and relatives says they're truck tows fine and don't even struggle that much with the kind of weight that I tow. Either something is really wrong with my truck or people just are afraid to admit it. They have 5.3L sierra, 5.2L rams, 5.2L dakotas, 03 4.7L 4runners, and 4.7L tundras. So I suggest they let me hook up my boat and test it. Sure enough same thing, struggling for power. I tell them" feel the difference" they say "oh that, that's nothing". WHAT!!? I would call that loss in power, they would call it piece of cake. Of those, the sierra felt slightly stronger than my tundra. The ram and the dakota was like driving a 4banger all over again with that tow weight. The 4runner and the other tundra felt the same but the 4runner doesn't lose speed as fast as the tundra when ascending hilles. If I have to be higher than 4k rpm just to maintain speed on my usual MN hills, it's weak. So what's up. I have a friend that modifies honda's and he and my brother's are the only ones that agrees with me that they do feel a significant difference when towing. So really are we(truck owners) afraid to admit this or is my butt too sensitive to momentom.

[H2O_MAN]

Originally Posted by ricqik

So really are we(truck owners) afraid to admit this or is my butt too sensitive to momentom.

I can tell a weight related difference after I fill up an empty tank.
The more weight you pull or haul the more your truck, any truck has to work.
If you don't notice a change, you are not being honest or your butt is numb.

[KLS]

You're not feeling a loss of power, you're feeling a loss of performance.

What size tires do you have? If they're oversized, you have effectively raised your gear ratio, and that causes a loss of power for a given speed.

If you have standard sized tires, and really feel that your truck isn't performing as it should, get it checked. Have you performed all the usual maintenance?...plugs @ 30k, cleaned the throttle body, new air cleaner when needed? Running decent gas?...might try a different brand.

I run 4000+ rpm in 2nd when I tow my 5100# travel trailer up a 5% grade. How much weight do you actually have on board--boat & trailer, extra junk in the boat and truck bed, people, anything else--and how steep are those hills?


Ken

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by ricqik

Alright guys be serious. I tow a 2900lbs boat quite often spring to fall and I notice a big loss in towing power. And when I tow a 2ton car on a dolly I really feel the difference. All my friend and relatives says they're truck tows fine and don't even struggle that much with the kind of weight that I tow. Either something is really wrong with my truck or people just are afraid to admit it. They have 5.3L sierra, 5.2L rams, 5.2L dakotas, 03 4.7L 4runners, and 4.7L tundras. So I suggest they let me hook up my boat and test it. Sure enough same thing, struggling for power. I tell them" feel the difference" they say "oh that, that's nothing". WHAT!!? I would call that loss in power, they would call it piece of cake. Of those, the sierra felt slightly stronger than my tundra. The ram and the dakota was like driving a 4banger all over again with that tow weight. The 4runner and the other tundra felt the same but the 4runner doesn't lose speed as fast as the tundra when ascending hilles. If I have to be higher than 4k rpm just to maintain speed on my usual MN hills, it's weak. So what's up. I have a friend that modifies honda's and he and my brother's are the only ones that agrees with me that they do feel a significant difference when towing. So really are we(truck owners) afraid to admit this or is my butt too sensitive to momentom.

It's a matter of expectations as much as performance. For people who routinely tow, being able to eventually get the tow vehicle/trailer rig up to 65 mph on a fairly flat road is considered acceptable performance. By eventually I'm meaning that 0 to 60 times in the 25 to 60 second range are normal. If you're expecting sub 10 second times for 0 to 60 with 3000 to 5000 lbs hooked to the back of your truck, you're expectations are simply unrealistic. A trailer over 3000 or so pounds, especially one over 5000 lbs is going to very noticeably affect the performance of the relatively small V8 in the Tundra. With 3000 lbs back there, you shouldn't need 4000 RPM in 2nd gear on a MN hill (the truck really should pull that weight in 3rd at 3000 RPM)...but if you've got a 2 ton car (probably on a half ton trailer), then 4000 RPM in 2nd to hold 70 mph going up a MN hill doesn't sound completely out of line.

If you want to tug around those weights without noticeable effect on your truck's performance, you need a whole lot more engine than the Tundra has...something like a 454 gas engine or one of the heavy duty diesels...Cummins Turbo, Ford Power Stroke, etc...that put out around 600 to 800 lbs-feet of torque.

[DCTUNDRA]

Ray stated in very nicely: it's a matter of expectations. I have a 95 Ford F-350 dually with the 460 gas engine, a 99 F-150 with the 5.4 Triton , an 87 Dodge Dakota with a V-6, and my new 2004 Double Cab. I match the task at hand to the vehicle. When I towed my 7000 lb GW enclosed trailer from Ohio to Norfolk, Va with my daughters belongings, I fully expected to have to drive with the Overdrive disengaged in the hills of West Virginia, and to see the rpms go up and the gas mileage go down. It is unrealisitic to expect anything else. You're going to need to work the horses a little harder to accelerate, climb, or even handle a strong headwind. Really, when we tow significant weights, we are getting to see what the truck can really do. Unloaded, most of us don't drive for miles at a time with our foot to the floor, but I have done that for mile after mile on I-80 in Pennsylvania. If there is a weak spot, it will show up then. In conclusion, I would say that most folks evaluate their truck based on what it can do under such circumstances, and not on what it does driving around unloaded. My dually is VERY powerful, but it never gets worked just hauling building supplies, 1000lbs of chemicals, etc. I did put about 4,000 lbs of machinery in the bed - and yes I did notice it in every way. Acceleration, stopping, and cornering were all affected, but I was pleased that it could handle the job safely and comfortably.

[ricqik]

With what I tow, I rarely drop to 2nd. Always in 3rd at about 3k rpm or so up the hills. My truck is well maintained. As I said, I did the same test drive with friends' and families' trucks with similar results. I don't feel disappointed in the performance of towing that weight, it just that it is very noticable and that when one says it tows like a dream with that weight, it just sound like misinformation being past on to others. I can't justify 4k rpm in 2nd to hold a speed up hills here. 3k rpm in 3rd, that's fine but in 2nd at 4k-uhh? My truck can hold 3.5k up hills here in 3rd fine.
I even heard hemi owners saying they can tow 6klbs without a sweat until they said at 5k+ rpm in 2nd. Holy ssitzu. I'm not saying our trucks can't do it, but that's alot of work the engine has to do. It's sounds like overworking the motor.

[ricqik]

Originally Posted by KLS

You're not feeling a loss of power, you're feeling a loss of performance.

What size tires do you have? If they're oversized, you have effectively raised your gear ratio, and that causes a loss of power for a given speed.

If you have standard sized tires, and really feel that your truck isn't performing as it should, get it checked. Have you performed all the usual maintenance?...plugs @ 30k, cleaned the throttle body, new air cleaner when needed? Running decent gas?...might try a different brand.

I run 4000+ rpm in 2nd when I tow my 5100# travel trailer up a 5% grade. How much weight do you actually have on board--boat & trailer, extra junk in the boat and truck bed, people, anything else--and how steep are those hills?


Ken

I run 265/75's, other than cleaning the TB everything else is in tip top shape. The boat I tow is about 2900lbs and with people and junk in the truck, I would say about another 1300lbs. I really don't know how they rate hill grades but most are like exit ramps type grades and occaisional steep ones in the bluff country areas. It does take me roughly in the 30+sec range to hit about 60mph.

[KLS]

You're at about 4-1/2 tons combined weight with a 287 cubic inch engine...you're not doing too badly.


Ken

[JeffD]

The only truck I have driven that I don't notice huge differences when towing are the diesels. My tundra works hard to pull a car on a trailer behind it, so did my F150 with a 351. One disadvantage we seem to have is the low RPM torque, but once we hit 3,400 RPM we'll tow with the best of the gas powered trucks in our class. The new american trucks seem to be following this trend now as well.

[KLS]

Originally Posted by JeffD

One disadvantage we seem to have is the low RPM torque, but once we hit 3,400 RPM we'll tow with the best of the gas powered trucks in our class. The new american trucks seem to be following this trend now as well.

Small, high reving engines give higher peak horsepower numbers for advertising and lighter weight for better C.A.F.E.


Ken

[JeffD]

Just to add: I towed a large car on a flatbed trailer from birmingham, al down to south florida this weekend. It felt like I was attached to a house. I was only getting about 140 miles per tank (about 22 gallons each fillup) on the highway running 75. When I was in the mountains trying to start out uphill there were times I did not think I would be able to get out of first gear because of the weight pulling me down. It was especially bad in the mornings when the transmission tries to short shift. When it did that I would lose speed until it dropped enough for it to go back to first. O/D was not even an option. Most of the time on the highway I just held the pedal to the floor (with o/d off) to maintain about 75.

I was thinking that this truck was too small to pull the trailer, but the guy who was with me said that his gas ford F250 didn't pull it any better.

[shall36]

I just towed a Nissan Maxima on a tow dolly about 60 miles with no problems whatsoever. I had plenty of power, plenty of brakes, and was able to do 70 in OD. I'm super happy with my truck's performance. In reading the thread, it seems that expectations are the key. I do know from my towing experiences that opening up the intake and exhaust really helps when towing on the highway, especially if you are not using OD due to the weight of your rig. Towing something heavy in OD (i.e >5,000 lbs.) is a great way to toast your tranny.

[UsE_To_RoCk]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

It's a matter of expectations as much as performance. For people who routinely tow, being able to eventually get the tow vehicle/trailer rig up to 65 mph on a fairly flat road is considered acceptable performance. By eventually I'm meaning that 0 to 60 times in the 25 to 60 second range are normal. If you're expecting sub 10 second times for 0 to 60 with 3000 to 5000 lbs hooked to the back of your truck, you're expectations are simply unrealistic. A trailer over 3000 or so pounds, especially one over 5000 lbs is going to very noticeably affect the performance of the relatively small V8 in the Tundra. With 3000 lbs back there, you shouldn't need 4000 RPM in 2nd gear on a MN hill (the truck really should pull that weight in 3rd at 3000 RPM)...but if you've got a 2 ton car (probably on a half ton trailer), then 4000 RPM in 2nd to hold 70 mph going up a MN hill doesn't sound completely out of line.

If you want to tug around those weights without noticeable effect on your truck's performance, you need a whole lot more engine than the Tundra has...something like a 454 gas engine or one of the heavy duty diesels...Cummins Turbo, Ford Power Stroke, etc...that put out around 600 to 800 lbs-feet of torque.

I agree, with that for the most part. I do feel my tundra V8 does tow vert well though. On our move to Houston Tx, we rented one of those big quad-wheel UHAULs and loaded it down. It had to have weighted at least 3,200lbs including the trailer. Then we had the entire truck bed filled with all kinds of bulky heavy items. I did notice the tug more when starting off and the push when braking but I was still able to get it up to 80mph with o/d on and it would stay there with out a major fuss, actually I felt like I could have gone further. The fuel economy wasn't bad on the highway. I normally only get roughly 14 mpg so when it was staying near the 9-10 mpg range I wasn't surprised. Overall I was very happy It was very comfortable and didn't sway very much either. A good truck for towing, assuming you're not anywhere near the 7200lb max, my guess it would get pretty ugly.

[dillon]

Originally Posted by ricqik

Alright guys be serious. I tow a 2900lbs boat quite often spring to fall and I notice a big loss in towing power. And when I tow a 2ton car on a dolly I really feel the difference. All my friend and relatives says they're truck tows fine and don't even struggle that much with the kind of weight that I tow. Either something is really wrong with my truck or people just are afraid to admit it. They have 5.3L sierra, 5.2L rams, 5.2L dakotas, 03 4.7L 4runners, and 4.7L tundras. So I suggest they let me hook up my boat and test it. Sure enough same thing, struggling for power. I tell them" feel the difference" they say "oh that, that's nothing". WHAT!!? I would call that loss in power, they would call it piece of cake. Of those, the sierra felt slightly stronger than my tundra. The ram and the dakota was like driving a 4banger all over again with that tow weight. The 4runner and the other tundra felt the same but the 4runner doesn't lose speed as fast as the tundra when ascending hilles. If I have to be higher than 4k rpm just to maintain speed on my usual MN hills, it's weak. So what's up. I have a friend that modifies honda's and he and my brother's are the only ones that agrees with me that they do feel a significant difference when towing. So really are we(truck owners) afraid to admit this or is my butt too sensitive to momentom.

I tow a 26' travel trailer with a YZ250 in the bed of the truck. I have had 4 adults inside my vehicle and towed from Denver to South of Taos, NM. I had to go over La Veta pass at 10,000 ft. I was able to maintain 60mph in 2nd gear. Gas mileage is about 8-10 mpg. I also have towed my trailer over Vail pass, the Eisenhower tunnel and Cottonwood pass. Those passes I only am able to hit 40-45 when I crest the top of the pass. I would enjoy more power, but you need to figure how much time is spent towing. Maybe 15 times a year. Does anyone recommend the supercharger? No complaints really. Out to Utah, I have cruised at 75mph with trailer in tow. I will buy the bigger engine or Diesel when they release it.

[Verndog]

I tow around a 2800 lb boat 15 times per year. I feel the Tundra tows it verys well. Do I notice a significant loss of power? Of course, why wouldn't I expect to? The fact is, I tow, less then 2% of the use of my truck. So I drive around 98% of the time with MORE power then I NEED.

So it doesn't make sence to go buy a 3/4 ton truck, just so I hardly notice I'm towing. My Tundra towes well, based on the engine size, vehicle weight, and vehicle size....I do not expect to not have to keep the RPM's up to pull a steep hill, or to keep up with another truck off the line that isn't towing. But on the flat, with 3000 plus pounds loaded, I do not hold anybody up, get up to 50 in good enough time for me, and feel the truck handles it quite well with the exception of rear end squatting.

If you want similar performance towing then you are empty, you need a diesel, or a big block with mega torque.

Kevin