I have an 03' SR5 V8 (TRD package) and I have added the RoadMaster Active Suspension kit. My truck came with a distributor added tow package (Class III hitch and 4-pin connector) instead of the the OEM tow package which includes a transmission cooler. Mind does not have the transmission cooler. I am getting ready to pull my motorcycle trailer from Alabama to Kentucky for a rally next weekend. The trailer is a 5 x 10 (enclosed) Wells Cargo CycleWagon. It has a curb weight of 1120 lbs. and GVWR of 2200 lbs. The trailer is a little lower (6' 11" ground to top) than regular trailers and has a NoseCone front end. The bike I haul has an approximate weight of 650 lbs. My question is this? Since the combined weight of trailer, bike, and gear will be slightly less than 2000 lbs., will I be okay w/out the transmission cooler? I have asked several service managers at Toyota dealerships and they say "pull away" and enjoy. However, a mechanic friend of mine said I definitely need a transmission cooler even if I pull a 300 lb. open trailer. I can order an aftermarket unit but don't have time to get it installed and I pull the trailer so infrequently, I hate to spend several hundred $$ if I don't really need it. I know there are many members of TS who have knowledge in the area of towing and I would appreciate any advice. I would assume Toyota designed the Tundra to have some towing capacity w/out the optional tow package but I could be wrong--
I have an 03' SR5 V8 (TRD package) and I have added the RoadMaster Active Suspension kit. My truck came with a distributor added tow package (Class III hitch and 4-pin connector) instead of the the OEM tow package which includes a transmission cooler. Mind does not have the transmission cooler. I am getting ready to pull my motorcycle trailer from Alabama to Kentucky for a rally next weekend. The trailer is a 5 x 10 (enclosed) Wells Cargo CycleWagon. It has a curb weight of 1120 lbs. and GVWR of 2200 lbs. The trailer is a little lower (6' 11" ground to top) than regular trailers and has a NoseCone front end. The bike I haul has an approximate weight of 650 lbs. My question is this? Since the combined weight of trailer, bike, and gear will be slightly less than 2000 lbs., will I be okay w/out the transmission cooler? I have asked several service managers at Toyota dealerships and they say "pull away" and enjoy. However, a mechanic friend of mine said I definitely need a transmission cooler even if I pull a 300 lb. open trailer. I can order an aftermarket unit but don't have time to get it installed and I pull the trailer so infrequently, I hate to spend several hundred $$ if I don't really need it. I know there are many members of TS who have knowledge in the area of towing and I would appreciate any advice. I would assume Toyota designed the Tundra to have some towing capacity w/out the optional tow package but I could be wrong--
Thanks in advance----
Well, first of all, you actually do have a transmission cooler...it's the oil/water cooler in the bottom of the radiator. Whether that's enough to keep your ATF reasonably cool with your load is kinda "iffy"...if you were going to do this in cool weather and on strictly flat roads I'd definitely say no problem.
But you will be crossing quite a bit of hilly terrain if I remember northern Alabama correctly and you will certainly be likely to be encountering pretty hot (90 plus) weather. However, based on my experience with a 4000 lb low profile travel trailer in rolling terrain in 90 degree weather, I'd say that that as long as you keep your speeds under 65 and tow with the OD off so the torque converter stays locked and you're not generating a lot of engine or transmission heat, then you'll be OK. But if you start pushing the engine harder or causing the transmission to either downshift or even have TC unlock on the hills, then all bets are off.
From all I've heard and read the Long Mfg. Tru-Cool is the way to go. http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ is the link to his shop. He probably has everything you might need in stock as well as being a helpful supporting member. Many sizes available for less than $100 http://www.tsscoolers.com/Merchant2/...tore_Code=WGPS other option would be junkyard and find a wrecked Tundra or Sequoia and get the factory one. Supposedly the factory one works very well but the Long is better. Installation should be real quick and easy and it's a guaranteed insurance policy. The last tranny I had fixed cost me over $2K.
I'm in the same situation: dealer installed towing pkg, no cooler (well, no tranny cooler) and about to set off on a 1500 mile trip from Miami to Chicago with a 6x12 Uhaul. I just had the trans flushed at the dealer as a precaution, but wasn't planning on installing a cooler. I'm taking the lowland route thru northern FL and AL and so won't be crossing any major grades. Would also appreciate an opinion.
I believe all Tundras get a transmission oil cooler. It is located in front of the radiator. Size about 7" x 7" if I remember correctly. I pull a 6500# trailer up and down the mountains and in the desert with my 2000 Ltd. 4x4 with no problems. I have 85000 miles on my truck. My transmission is still smooth as glass. In this case, I would listen to the service managers and run like you stole it. Have fun on your trip!
I believe all Tundras get a transmission oil cooler.
Beginning with the '03 model, the only Tundras with the external transmission cooler are those that have the factory towing package. All others (unless they have a dealer or distributor added cooler) depend solely on the oil/water transmssion cooler in the bottom of the radiator.
Prior to '03 all Tundras (towing package or not) had both the oil/water cooler in the radiator and the external oil/air cooler you are referring to.
I was reading a post by I believe transdude somewhere about adding a tranny cooler to lower the operating temps and extending its service life even if not towing.
Sounds like its a wise long term investment to me.
I was reading a post by I believe transdude somewhere about adding a tranny cooler to lower the operating temps and extending its service life even if not towing.
Sounds like its a wise long term investment to me.
Just my thoughts
Hans
It wouldn't hurt...but if you don't tow, it won't help a lot either. I have both coolers and a pan mounted transmission temperature gauge and the highest I've ever seen the pan temperature when not towing is 150 (on a 95 degree day, in heavy traffic, while climbing long and steep hills). The external cooler only works when at speed (over about 40 mph)...at low speed the cooler in the radiator is doing all the cooling...and I only see about a 10 degree difference. The external cooler is really just a supplement to the internal cooler. I should add that ATF is quite stable and long lasting as long as its temperature does not stay above 175.
One of the reasons that the '03s/'04s don't have an external cooler unless you have the towing package is that the transmission cooler in the radiator is very effective for regular driving.
Only if you tow...actually only if you tow a fairly heavy load in high temperatures on hilly/mountainous terrain and can't keep the transmission's torque converter locked...does the ATF pan temperature rise above 175 with both factory coolers. I do extreme towing...4000 lbs up 10 mile long 7% grades with the engine at 4200 RPM in 2nd gear the whole way. Highest temperature I've ever seen my transmission get to was still only 195 and that was with 90 plus ambient temperatures.
For ordinary, non-towing (or even light towing) driving, any external cooler is more feel-good than useful.
It wouldn't hurt...but if you don't tow, it won't help a lot either. I have both coolers and a pan mounted transmission temperature gauge and the highest I've ever seen the pan temperature when not towing is 150 (on a 95 degree day, in heavy traffic, while climbing long and steep hills). The external cooler only works when at speed (over about 40 mph)...at low speed the cooler in the radiator is doing all the cooling...and I only see about a 10 degree difference. The external cooler is really just a supplement to the internal cooler. I should add that ATF is quite stable and long lasting as long as its temperature does not stay above 175.
One of the reasons that the '03s/'04s don't have an external cooler unless you have the towing package is that the transmission cooler in the radiator is very effective for regular driving.
Only if you tow...actually only if you tow a fairly heavy load in high temperatures on hilly/mountainous terrain and can't keep the transmission's torque converter locked...does the ATF pan temperature rise above 175 with both factory coolers. I do extreme towing...4000 lbs up 10 mile long 7% grades with the engine at 4200 RPM in 2nd gear the whole way. Highest temperature I've ever seen my transmission get to was still only 195 and that was with 90 plus ambient temperatures.
For ordinary, non-towing (or even light towing) driving, any external cooler is more feel-good than useful.
Thanks RockyMtnRay for your informative post. I'm going to just head out and nix the cooler. I see your point in that a 7" x 7" cooler will not help much until you operate at a significant speed and since my trailer is in the "small" category, I'll "chance" it. B&M makes a thermostat operated unit w/fan that probably puts the OEM Toyota unit to shame and it is 1/2 the price of what Toyota wants for theirs. A service technical that works for Toyota told me "off the cuff" that the Tundra tranny coolers were crap compared to other truck brands and aftermarket units so you can see how I was beginning to get confused by the conflicting information I was getting. Your post made sense to me and I'm going to just head out. I would like to order the B&M or Derale fan units but I don't have time before I leave. The truck has only 10K on it and it is 1 year old. If I screw up the transmission, I'll let Toyota repair it then sell it as I want an O5' anyway. Again, thanks for the great advice!
P.S. To the moderators--thanks for the information about "moving my original post." Might I suggest that an email be sent to the person originating the thread simply denoting that it has been moved (and to where). To be honest I never even thought to look in the section where it was moved but appreciate you informing me that that's where the original went. I just got through reading the posts to it (also very informative) and you can simply "kill" this one if you want to and don't worry about having to merge them.
Thanks RockyMtnRay for your informative post. I'm going to just head out and nix the cooler. I see your point in that a 7" x 7" cooler will not help much until you operate at a significant speed and since my trailer is in the "small" category, I'll "chance" it. B&M makes a thermostat operated unit w/fan that probably puts the OEM Toyota unit to shame and it is 1/2 the price of what Toyota wants for theirs. A service technical that works for Toyota told me "off the cuff" that the Tundra tranny coolers were crap compared to other truck brands and aftermarket units so you can see how I was beginning to get confused by the conflicting information I was getting. Your post made sense to me and I'm going to just head out. I would like to order the B&M or Derale fan units but I don't have time before I leave. The truck has only 10K on it and it is 1 year old. If I screw up the transmission, I'll let Toyota repair it then sell it as I want an O5' anyway. Again, thanks for the great advice!
P.S. To the moderators--thanks for the information about "moving my original post." Might I suggest that an email be sent to the person originating the thread simply denoting that it has been moved (and to where). To be honest I never even thought to look in the section where it was moved but appreciate you informing me that that's where the original went. I just got through reading the posts to it (also very informative) and you can simply "kill" this one if you want to and don't worry about having to merge them.
Yeah...you should be fine without the external cooler as long as you make sure the transmission torque converter stays locked. The transmission doesn't generate much heat as long as that TC is locked...but as soon as it unlocks and you start getting torque conversion/slippage, a lot of heat gets generated. The best way to insure TC lock is to simply turn off the OD...that allows TC lock in 3rd gear and given your fairly small/light trailer in combination with the relatively low altitudes and mild grades of your trip, 3rd should provide more than enough towing power.
One of the more startling revelations I've had while towing is how closely changes in transmission temperature track to engine load even with the torque converter locked (so the tranny itself is not generating much heat at all). I eventually concluded that under light engine load, the engine's coolant thermostat is mostly closed, therefore the coolant at the bottom of the radiator (where the transmission's primary oil/water cooler is setting) is really rather cool. However, under high engine load (again with the TC locked), the thermostat opens and the temperature of the coolant at the bottom of the radiator rises quite a bit...up into the 150 to 165 range if the ambient is over 90. A corrolary conclusion is the factory external cooler is really only dropping the ATF temperature by about 5 to 10 degrees...a definite help but not a huge one...which corroborates what the service technician told you.
As for PMs to thread originators re thread moves, if time permits and we remember to do so, we mods often do send a PM. But since this is volunteer work and we're pretty busy folk, that doesn't always happen. When in doubt, use the search functions.
Yeah...you should be fine without the external cooler as long as you make sure the transmission torque converter stays locked. The transmission doesn't generate much heat as long as that TC is locked...but as soon as it unlocks and you start getting torque conversion/slippage, a lot of heat gets generated. The best way to insure TC lock is to simply turn off the OD...that allows TC lock in 3rd gear and given your fairly small/light trailer in combination with the relatively low altitudes and mild grades of your trip, 3rd should provide more than enough towing power.
Again, thanks for the informative post. I'm heading out soon w/out a tranny cooler but will probably order one when I return. This whole espisode has really soured me on my Tundra which I have thoroughly enjoyed up to this point. I guess what I have is not a true work vehicle but a "TOY" ota. You would think that a Tundra V8 could pull a small to moderate size trailer without having to add extra options/packages. I could understand having to add options to pull travel trailers, 5th wheelers, or high GVWR dual axle trailers. I thought I would be fine with a 1200 lb. enclosed trailer and 600 - 700 lbs. of cargo in a "just go" mode and your advice has partially indicated that is the case. However, I dread going 1000 miles with the OD off as the mileage is not that great as it is. The most weight I have ever had in the bed is whatever 10 2x4s weigh and only three times has another person been in the vehicle and the primary reason I bought it was to be able to pull my bike to distant rallies. My prior truck was a suck a-- Ranger with a 3L V6. I never even checked to see if it had a transmission cooler as it was leased. It pulled the trailer fine in OD but would dramatically slow down on moderate grades. I assumed the Tundra would be the ticket. I thought I had really done my homework but the exact vehicle I wanted was hard to locate (or get another dealer to transfer) so I wound up with a new unit with everything I wanted except it came with a distributor tow package instead of the factory unit. The dealer said I would have no problems (of course, what else would he say?) but with the suggestions from TS members of flushing the transmission, adding the tranny cooler, and/or always driving with the OD off, I realize I probably should have picked another brand of truck--oh, well, live and learn. In other words, what I have is a great looking and riding car in a truck's body. Again, thanks for the excellent advice!
My question is this? Since the combined weight of trailer, bike, and gear will be slightly less than 2000 lbs., will I be okay w/out the transmission cooler?
YES - you will be fine.
I pull 2000 lbs. in a 900 lb trailer with another 2000 lbs. in the bed of my 3.4L V6 T100 with zero problems.
My T100 has a factory tow pkg. that does not have an "extra" transmission cooler. It works for me, I keep the OD off and change the fluids often.
Your V8 Tundra will have no problem towing your loaded bike trailer.
Keep the OD turned off and drive-on NOTE: You can run all day long pulling a trailer in OD on flat land ...
Remember when cars had only 2 and 3 speed automatic's? OD is for cruising, not working. Our trucks are designed to work with the OD turned off. Don't beat yourself up - you have a great truck. And now that you have done something (RAS) to address the soft rear springs, your truck is that much better
Thunder Gray Metallic
2002 REGULAR CAB - LONG BED - 4WD - V8 - SR5
TRD / Kazuma LSD made by EATON
Bilstein HD shocks
Michelin 8 ply E series radials
JBA headers
Hellwig rear bar
Line-X over the rail
2005 tail lights
OEM Door Sill protectors
TRD Off-Road front coil springs
Color matched LEER Hi-Top cap
Wet Okole Sport Seat Covers
Tinted Windows
OEM Rubber Bed Mat
OEM All-Weather mats
OEM Towing Package with Remote Transmission Cooler
YES - you will be fine.
I pull 2000 lbs. in a 900 lb trailer with another 2000 lbs. in the bed of my 3.4L V6 T100 with zero problems.
My T100 has a factory tow pkg. that does not have an "extra" transmission cooler. It works for me, I keep the OD off and change the fluids often.
Your V8 Tundra will have no problem towing your loaded bike trailer.
Keep the OD turned off and drive-on NOTE: You can run all day long pulling a trailer in OD on flat land ...
Thanks--just got back from a 1000 mile trip and the Tundra did absolutely fine. As a matter of fact, most of the time I simply left it in OD as you suggested except for when I was in the low hills of middle Tennessee. I guess I will add the B&M tranny cooler w/fan soon just to be on the safe side. A mechanic who works on Toyotas said their cooler is crap and is only slightly effective. He said it is built like a piece of crap compared to B&M and Derale and has a very restrictive flow. I have heard this and that from a lot of people but several of you on TS have given some very good and sound advice which I plan to follow. One of my friends has an 00 Tundra V8 and has pulled a two-horse trailer (and cargo) all over creation. He has over 80K on his truck and has never touched the transmission. He says he puts it in OD and it rarely shifts out except for longer grades. I sweat pulling a 1200 lb trailer with a 600 lb bike--go figure.
Help With A Towing Question
NOTE: You can run all day long pulling a trailer in OD on flat land ...
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