Too much to pull?

[ChuckBennett]

I just purchased a 2005 Tundra 4x4 Access cab and am now moving to Kalispell, MT from Colorado Springs, CO (1085 miles). I will be pulling a 2 axle uhaul and hauling my 600lbs BMW motorcycle in the Bed. Is this too much for this pickup, I know what they say it is rated at, but in reality, could I be damaging the transmission? I have the Tow package for what it is worth.

[Lazy Ace]

You won’t have any problems at all. Just remember to kick her out of overdrive in the hills and you’ll be fine.

[HBjeff]

you wont have a problem if you leave it OUT of overdrive the entire time. OD is bad news for towing, moreso with toyota it seems

[Vu]

When it comes to towing, power is usually not the issue but everyone seems to think it is. The issues is your brakes.

I've towed a 18 foot boat on a trailer and the power although underpowered (v6), was none of my concerns. The brakes however were. Just make sure you have plenty of road in front of you and you should be fine.

I also find that the tundra sways way too much with weight compared to my friend's dodge ram and f-150. So be careful but you should be fine.

P.S. take the advice of the other members and don't tow in OD

[TERRYJMATTHEW]

I know this sounds stupid, but make sure you check your tire pressure and haul a$$. I pulled a 5x8 U-haul loaded down from Auburn, AL to Dallas, Tx(750 miles). No problem at all pulling it 80 mph and stopping it!
Oh yeah, Dont use OD unless youre going downhill and be prepared for 9-10 MPG depending on how fast you drive.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by ChuckBennett

I just purchased a 2005 Tundra 4x4 Access cab and am now moving to Kalispell, MT from Colorado Springs, CO (1085 miles). I will be pulling a 2 axle uhaul and hauling my 600lbs BMW motorcycle in the Bed. Is this too much for this pickup, I know what they say it is rated at, but in reality, could I be damaging the transmission? I have the Tow package for what it is worth.

On an '05 the transmission is really the least of your possible problems (as long as you do the tow with OD off). You have a far bigger potential to actually break the frame and/or rear axle. Your Tundra has a light duty (very light duty) open C-channel frame that's about the same size/strength as Toyota used on the T-100 and uses on the Tacoma. Furthermore, your rear axle is basically a slightly widened light-duty Tacoma axle and the differential is exactly the same as Toyota uses on the Tacoma. . There have been reports of people actually breaking the axle with too heavy a towed load and my fellow moderator Mustang67408 (a Toyota Master Tech) has posted several pictures like this that he took of a completely broken frame (both sides) on an '03 Tundra who's owner had simply overloaded it with a camper (total weight around 2500 lbs). What I'm trying to tell you is you had better take Toyota's maximum weight restrictions with utmost seriousness and not even think about exceeding them unless you want to gamble on turning your new $35,000 truck into a $3000 salvage item. Furthermore, if you do break your truck from overloading, the metalurgic evidence is usually clearcut and it will cause Toyota to completely negate all warranty coverage for any repair.

So let's review the specific numbers that you had better not exceed under any circumstances. First, totally and completely forget the so called "tow rating"...it's a useless number based on a completely barebones empty truck. There are four numbers that you must never exceed:

• Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR). This is the total weight of the loaded truck and the loaded trailer. It can not exceed 11,800 lbs.
• Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). This is the most the loaded truck by itself can weigh (including any tongue weights on the hitch) and must not exceed 6300 lbs.
• Gross Axle Weight Rating (rear) (GAWR-rear). This is the most weight you can put on the rear axle and it must not exceed 3760 lbs.
• Hitch Weight. With the tow package, the most weight you can put on the hitch is 710 lbs (weight carrrying hitch) or 1095 lbs (weight distributing hitch).

I too have a 4WD Access cab and have had it weighed, including the getting the weights on each tire and axle. With just me, a full tank of gas, and only about 300 lbs of camping gear in the cab and in the bed, my truck weighed 5200 lbs with 2700 lbs on the rear axle.

If you add a 600 lb M/C, the weight would be 5800 lbs. Since you're moving, I would assume you'll be cramming the cab & bed full of passengers and/or cargo...probably another 600 lbs worth. That would put the truck weight to at least 6400 lbs...100 lbs over the GVWR...even before you add the trailer's tongue weight. Furthermore, you will have about 3300 lbs on the rear axle.

Now lets consider the trailer. You didn't specfiy which double axle U-haul trailer (they have two) but I'll take the worst case that you're going to use their larger 6'X12' model. Lets start with the published empty trailer weight of 1800 lbs. Since this is a household move and this trailer can hold up 396 cu ft of cargo and you're likely loading it with furniture and other heavy household items, you could easily cram in 6000 lbs of cargo (note that U haul limits cargo weight to 2600 lbs). Total realistic trailer weight will be about 7800 lbs. For towing stability, at least 10% of that weight has to be on the tongue...or about 800 lbs.

Finally, lets look at how horribly/dangerously overweight your combination truck/trailer will be.

First the total combined weight will be 7800+6400 or 14,200 lbs. Thats a 2400 lbs (more than a ton) above the maximum allowed GCWR.

Next, since you probably don't have a weight distributing hitch (WDH) (even if the trailer would work with one) the 800 lbs tongue weight is nearly 100 lbs over the maximum allowed hitch weight of the truck. That's putting a major stress on your hitch and the rear frame.

Without a WDH, all of the tongue weight goes on the truck's rear axle. That will raise your load on the rear axle to 3300+800 or 4100 lbs. And it gets worse...because the tongue weight is applied about 5 feet behind the rear axle, it leverages the front of the truck up (unweights the front axle) though a teeter-totter effect. With 128 inch wheelbase (~13 feet), the amount of weight leverage off the front is about 40% of the tongue weight or roughly 320 lbs. That leveraged weight doesn't disappear into space, rather it gets transferred back to the rear axle. So now your total weight on the rear axle is about 4400 lbs...or about 700 lbs (20%) over the GAWR-rear.

The bottom line is that you will be grossly exceeding all of the do not exceed numbers. Your rear suspension will have zero travel left and the truck will be setting on the bump stops. The rear axle bearings/bearing housings are being stressed 20% beyond their design ratings...one single sharp bump could cause the axle to snap at the spring mounts. The rear part of the frame is even more overloaded than the frame in the picture of the broken frame. You might get away with such gross overloads on a short across-town trip but running around 1500 miles to Kalispell with that kind of huge overload is very likely to break the frame, suspension, and/or rear axle. Oh and don't even think you can fix things by installing air suspension/overload springs/add-a-leaf...these don't fix the fact that both the frame and axle are grossly overloaded. The truck with the broken frame had overload springs, BTW.

The one bright spot is the Uhaul trailers do have surge brakes. So you can safely ignore the comments about brake issues. Braking is a big problem for the boating community because many (most) boat trailers don't have brakes but its not a worry for other types of trailers that have electric and/or surge brakes.

When it comes to towing and hauling, the sad fact is that Tundras are very light duty trucks. It's definitely possible to seriously overload one to the point it actually breaks. If you want to tow/haul the load you have in mind, you really need to use a 3/4 ton or 1 ton Ford/Chevy/Dodge.

[ChuckBennett]

Well, I will have about 1500lbs of stuff (only furniture is a lazyboy), trailer is a 6x12, 1800lbs empty. I have ended up with a ton of free space in the trailer, so I will place the bike in it on a bike pallet over the axles. Thanks for your responses, I will keep my fingers crossed.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by ChuckBennett

Well, I will have about 1500lbs of stuff (only furniture is a lazyboy), trailer is a 6x12, 1800lbs empty. I have ended up with a ton of free space in the trailer, so I will place the bike in it on a bike pallet over the axles. Thanks for your responses, I will keep my fingers crossed.

Ok then, you'll be fine on total weight and by putting the cycle in the trailer, you'll be doing your truck's suspension a huge favor. The only thing you'll have to watch for is to properly load the trailer so that you have at least 10% of its weight on the tongue but not more than about 15%. Getting the center of mass of the cargo properly located for that 10% to 15% tongue weight is the key to not having to deal with trailer sway. If you have less than 10% on the tongue (tail heavy trailer), you're almost guaranteed to have potentially very dangerous trailer sway that has caused many people to lose control. If you have too much on the tongue, the trailer behaves fine but there's too much coming off the truck's front end.

Sorry about being a bit alarmist about your total weights but experience has taught me that (1) people almost always greatly underestimate how much their stuff weighs; (2) people almost always rent the smallest U-Haul trailer they think they can get by with...and then cram it full to the rafters; (3) anyone who's renting a double axle U-Haul for a big household move has a lot of stuff to carry, and (4) most people here desperately want to believe their Tundra can "handle" a big load (in the bed and on a trailer) just as well as any other full size truck.

So I had to go with the worst case scenario. That you are way below the worst case load is a very good thing and your truck will manage fine if you center the trailer load correctly.

[HockeyFreak]

Preach it, Ray!!! I totally agree with everything you stated!

[TundrastruckDave]

Originally Posted by HockeyFreak

Preach it, Ray!!! I totally agree with everything you stated!

Oh yeah, NOW you listen to reason. But if memory serves me correctly, weren't you over the GCWR on your 2200 mile trip back from Kansas? By almost a ton, I believe! Hmmm... 'bout 900lbs, the way I figured it. Something like... 12,700lbs total, I believe that's what you said! Oops, I said that, didn't I?! Don't you hate being able to look up "old" threads?!

[HockeyFreak]

Originally Posted by TundrastruckDave

Oh yeah, NOW you listen to reason. But if memory serves me correctly, weren't you over the GCWR on your 2200 mile trip back from Kansas? By almost a ton, I believe! Hmmm... 'bout 900lbs, the way I figured it. Something like... 12,700lbs total, I believe that's what you said! Oops, I said that, didn't I?! Don't you hate being able to look up "old" threads?!

Shhh!!!! Oh well, just because I did it doesn't mean it is right...besides, I'm special and don't have to follow the rules!!!

[TundrastruckDave]

Originally Posted by HockeyFreak

Shhh!!!! Oh well, just because I did it doesn't mean it is right...besides, I'm special and don't have to follow the rules!!!

Yeah, you ARE "special" all right! NO doubt there! As for following the rules... I'll get back to ya' on that one.

It's great to be back on the threads after the Holidays! I missed ya' Shawn!

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by TundrastruckDave

Oh yeah, NOW you listen to reason. But if memory serves me correctly, weren't you over the GCWR on your 2200 mile trip back from Kansas? By almost a ton, I believe! Hmmm... 'bout 900lbs, the way I figured it. Something like... 12,700lbs total, I believe that's what you said! Oops, I said that, didn't I?! Don't you hate being able to look up "old" threads?!

Now Dave...it's not nice to be picking on your fellow mod...even when he just might deserve it. The main thing is that he's now "got religion" about the sins of overloading his truck.

Originally Posted by HockeyFreak

Shhh!!!! Oh well, just because I did it doesn't mean it is right...besides, I'm special and don't have to follow the rules!!!

ROTFL. Welllll...the special part might be a stretch , but as I recall you are an engineer and so at least you have some sense of how much you were over the design limits (and even have a good idea of what a "design limit" is ). That being said, you did break the rules (or at least thoroughly bent them ) and if you haven't already, I'd suggest you do a very thorough examination of your hitch and rear frame area for any signs of deformation or cracking (particularly on the welds). Although you had an awful lot of hitch weight (and didn't use a WDH...tsk tsk ) it didn't appear you were also trying to carry a big load in the bed which would have really overloaded the rear axle.

[HockeyFreak]

Yeah, DAVE, it's not nice to pick on people!! Moderator Ray is going to lay the smackdown!! Hehe.. But, on a serious note...I have throughly checked the truck and everything looks good. Like you said, I am an engineer and understand "design" limits, so my one time big tow will be okay. It is the guys who say "Yeah, I tow a 12,000 lb work trailer everyday and my truck does great and get 20 mpg while towing..." (shortly followed by beating his fists on his chest), that I worry about!

[ChuckBennett]

Well, it looks like towing will be the least of my worries, today I had a guy jump a divider, slide across 2 lanes and I hit him at about 20. Lucky it was on snow, destroyed my front bumper and grill, but I drove it to the dealership to get checked out. His escort wagon had the front suspension cave, and the driver door and front fender. Looks like there was no other damage to mine, hopefully there is a good body shop in Kalispell. He did have insurance (Farmers) and they seem to want to work with me, hopefully they are being honest, not a fan of insurance companies.

On a lighter note, a friend of mine is a Service Manager at a Toyota Dealership, I was talking to him tonight, he told me something interesting, in the 5 years the tundra has been out they have replaced 1 motor- The owner had the oil changed, but they forgot to refill after draining. He used to work for one of the big three years ago, he said they always had at least 1 core motor sitting on the floor in their shop all the time.