From Tundra to F250 back to Tundra?? (Towing)

[Tony1790]

Hello all,

I moved from a 01 AC 2wd Tundra to a 01 F250 V10 CC 4x4 due to the horrible back seat in the AC. I recently sold my F250 and am now truckless. I'm thinking Tundra DC, but was really thinking of getting a trailer for our 05 Pilot and waiting until the 07's come out with the 3/4 ton and bigger engine.

Can I wait that long? And then to top it off, I really should wait until 08 for the Tundra to work out the bugs. I bought the 05 Pilot because it was the 3rd year of production and several changes had been made. Still not sure it it's tranny will hold up long term.

So, anyway......wait for the 07's and use a trailer or ?? Whaddya think?

Tony, truckless in Seattle

[slimb]

The 05 DC has plenty of back seat space and I don't think you would get sick of it. Its a great truck. However the back seat of the 07 looks smaller from the pics.

[tuesdayd]

You're right...you should wait at least a year for the bugs to get worked out, and that makes it at least a 2.5 year wait. And it took even longer than that to get some of the kinks worked out of the current Tundra so you could wait even longer to make any purchase now less frivolous. You're truckless, and you already have doubts about the Pilot's tranny so a trailer's probably not a good idea. Go ahead and get a new truck!

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Tony1790

Hello all,

I moved from a 01 AC 2wd Tundra to a 01 F250 V10 CC 4x4 due to the horrible back seat in the AC. I recently sold my F250 and am now truckless. I'm thinking Tundra DC, but was really thinking of getting a trailer for our 05 Pilot and waiting until the 07's come out with the 3/4 ton and bigger engine.

Can I wait that long? And then to top it off, I really should wait until 08 for the Tundra to work out the bugs. I bought the 05 Pilot because it was the 3rd year of production and several changes had been made. Still not sure it it's tranny will hold up long term.

So, anyway......wait for the 07's and use a trailer or ?? Whaddya think?

Tony, truckless in Seattle

The DC has "full size" dimensions; however it actually has much less towing capability than your '01 AC had. The reason is the DC weighs about 500 lbs more than an equivalent AC but has the same GCWR and rear axle rating as the AC. Worse, the larger cab and deeper bed encourage folks to load the truck much more heavily with passengers and cargo. The net effect is a typically loaded DC has around 1000 lbs less true tow capacity than an AC Tundra.

As long as you're considering trailers that are suitable for towing behind a Pilot, you'll most likely be fine towing those trailers behind a DC. But if you were thinking that by getting a DC Tundra you could also get a much larger/heavier trailer, better think again. I personally wouldn't consider towing any trailer weighing more than about 4500 lbs empty (5300 lbs loaded with options and gear) behind a DC. The loaded truck will be around 6500 lbs...add in a 5300 lb trailer...and you will be right at the Gross Combined Weight Rating of 11,800.

Also consider that all '05s have a new 5 spd transmission and the jury is still out on how well these are going to stand up long term when the truck is used for towing.

[mitchr]

I don't think the new Tundra will have near as many problems since it will only be redesigned and not a totally new vehicle as the 2000 Tundra was. Just my .02 worth.

Mitch

[lamadera]

I also went from a Tundra AC to an F-250 to haul our slide-in
camper. It's a light camper (1300 lbs. dry), and I thought I
may be able to move back to a DC Tundra to haul it. From Ray's
post it sounds like that's a bad idea.

I may wait for the 07. The V-10 F-250 has been a good truck.
Surprisingly decent fuel mileage and plenty of power. Hauls the
camper with no problem. The big difference from the Tundra is
resale value. Even though I had the first year Tundra, it was also
been more reliable than the F-250. I need a crew cab for my growing
daughter, so I will need to do something soon. I wouldn't worry too
much about a first year Toyota, they get it right for the most part.
I have the first year Highlander, and it has been very reliable.

[Agent WD-40]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

Also consider that all '05s have a new 5 spd transmission and the jury is still out on how well these are going to stand up long term when the truck is used for towing.

Isnt this the 5 speed that came out of the Land Cruiser? If so I wouldn't think that the trany would give any problems. Those are pretty stout cars.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by Agent WD-40

Isnt this the 5 speed that came out of the Land Cruiser? If so I wouldn't think that the trany would give any problems. Those are pretty stout cars.

Insufficient data here for me to decide one way or another. Keep in mind that failure reports on the early model Tundras didn't appear until a year or so after they were introduced.

However, I do remember one post this winter from one of the Canadian members who got his '05 Tundra semi-stuck in snow and totally fried his transmission while trying to extricate himself (IIRC he said the transmission was actually smoking). He noted that he'd been stuck a whole lot worse in snow with an earlier ('01?) model Tundra and had not hurt the transmission in that truck while extricating himself. Didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the strength of the 5 spd transmission when used for very demanding tasks.

In my mind "the jury is still out".

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by lamadera

I also went from a Tundra AC to an F-250 to haul our slide-in
camper. It's a light camper (1300 lbs. dry), and I thought I
may be able to move back to a DC Tundra to haul it. From Ray's
post it sounds like that's a bad idea.

A very bad idea. The problem is the very light duty GAWR-rear. AFAIK, the DC rear axle has the same light-duty 3760 lb limit that the AC Tundras have. I've had my truck weighed...with just me, a tank of gas, and 200 lbs of cargo, the weight on my AC Tundra's rear axle was 2700 lbs. A DC will have at least 200 lbs more empty weight on the rear axle and if you have any passenger or cargo weight in the back seat, probably another 200 or 300 lbs from that will also be on the rear axle. Bottom line is you have only about 500 to 600 lbs left for cargo in the bed. That correlates to a camper that when loaded would weigh less than 1000 lbs. Even empty and dry, your 1300 lb camper would definitely exceed the rear axle weight limit of a DC. People have actually snapped the DC rear axle with overloads as well as breaking the frame by hauling a too-heavy camper.

If you want haul a camper with a Tundra DC, you'd best wait until the truly full size model appears in '07.

[lamadera]

Thanks for the real-world weights Ray.

There is a lot of misinformation and people
claiming it's no problem to overload the Tundra,
just slap on some airbags and load it up!

[MotownJG]

Are we talking about the DC with the towing package? Or does that make any real difference?

Originally Posted by lamadera

Thanks for the real-world weights Ray.

There is a lot of misinformation and people
claiming it's no problem to overload the Tundra,
just slap on some airbags and load it up!

[lamadera]

Originally Posted by MotownJG

Are we talking about the DC with the towing package? Or does that make any real difference?

I believe the towing package justs adds a hitch receiver, and
transmission cooler (maybe a heavy-duty alternator). This
won't increase the amount of weight you can safely haul or tow,
but it might keep the tranny from overheating.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by lamadera

Thanks for the real-world weights Ray.

There is a lot of misinformation and people
claiming it's no problem to overload the Tundra,
just slap on some airbags and load it up!

Welcome. Yeah, Toyota is fairly conservative with their weight ratings (one reason that Toyota trucks are so durable)...so guys find they can overload and seemingly get away with it. Maybe they can...if the overload is only a couple of hundred pounds. And, on domestic trucks with their heavy duty axles, often just adding some overload springs or airbags does allow some pretty major overloading.

But, as this picture of a broken frame on an '03 AC shows, if you overload by about 1000 lbs (or more), you are very likely to eventually have a broken frame. The idiot who owned this truck put a 1500 lb empty weight camper in the bed and then loaded it with another 1000 lbs or so of "stuff". Because that weight severely overloaded his springs, he thought that he could fix the overload by simply adding overload springs. Turned out to be a mighty effective way to turn a $30000 truck into a $3000 parts donor at the salvage yard.

This picture was taken by member Mustang67408. If you check his photo gallery, you can find several other pictures of the broken frames on this truck...both the passenger and driver side frames were broken. The owner actually asked the dealership if the damage was covered by his warranty.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by MotownJG

Are we talking about the DC with the towing package? Or does that make any real difference?

Having/not having the towing package makes no difference whatsoever in any of the key weight ratings (axles, GVWR, GCWR). What the towing package adds is a hitch receiver, trailer wiring (including a brake controller interface on the '03s and later), a heavier duty alternator, and on the '03s and newer, an external transmission cooler. Unlike on domestic vehicles where the towing package often includes heavier duty suspension and/or different axle ratios, Toyota makes no change to the basic truck.

So, no, having the towing package does not solve the weight restrictions because they're fundamentally the result of Toyota using a light duty axle and light duty frame. The rear axle, for instance, is basically the same one used on the T100. And the differentials (both front and rear) are Tacoma differentials. Many of the off-roaders here at TS have discovered to their chagrin that the front differential is very light duty and it's quite easy to totally destroy the spider gears inside it. The one bright side of Toyota using Tacoma differentials in the Tundra is it makes it quite easy to regear to new gear ratios...you just buy Tacoma gears. My truck, for instance, is happily running on 4.30 gears out of a Tacoma.

[wacko]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

A very bad idea. The problem is the very light duty GAWR-rear. AFAIK, the DC rear axle has the same light-duty 3760 lb limit that the AC Tundras have. I've had my truck weighed...with just me, a tank of gas, and 200 lbs of cargo, the weight on my AC Tundra's rear axle was 2700 lbs. A DC will have at least 200 lbs more empty weight on the rear axle and if you have any passenger or cargo weight in the back seat, probably another 200 or 300 lbs from that will also be on the rear axle. Bottom line is you have only about 500 to 600 lbs left for cargo in the bed. That correlates to a camper that when loaded would weigh less than 1000 lbs. Even empty and dry, your 1300 lb camper would definitely exceed the rear axle weight limit of a DC. People have actually snapped the DC rear axle with overloads as well as breaking the frame by hauling a too-heavy camper.

If you want haul a camper with a Tundra DC, you'd best wait until the truly full size model appears in '07.

Safe advice.... but from my experience the truck can take a beating. I originally had an '02 AC 4x4(sold after 100,000+ miles) I now have an '04 DC 4x4 with 55K on it) With my business I weekly haul a Busch RA-0630 that tends to weigh at 2000lbs for about 30 minutes.. I also about 6weeks per year haul my camper 6800lbs dry. The only mod I have done to help tow is Air-Lift ride assist (both trucks) after 4years I believe the axle would have shown a weakness!
Heck the DC with 4.10 gears even seems to pull better. The '05's more powerfull engine and 5-speed tranny only sweeten the truck!