Hitch weights + Cargo + need advice

[tomhole]

Just got back from a long weekend towing my pop up camper. Here's its stats:

GVWR: 3,500 lbs
GVW (weighed at truck stop): 3,300 lbs
Hitch weight (weighed at truck stop): 420 lbs

A little heavy on the hitch due to a 4 bike rack on the front of the camper, an extra propane tank and a battery.

I picked up the trailer and my 2005 DC 2WD sat nice and level with no WDH. Rode great.

Loaded up for the trip up and things were not as good. I loaded 500 lbs of cargo in the bed and 450 lbs of humans. That kept me well below my cargo limit (~1,400 lbs with a 1680 lbs limit). But the truck bounced a lot and bottomed out a couple of times.

On the way home, I was careful to keep the heavy cargo up front in the bed and that seemed to help. Plus we had about 200 lbs less cargo. Much better ride.

I could get a WDH and get 100 lbs or so off the hitch, but that won't help with the cargo issue. I'm nowhere near the limit on the Tundra for hitch weight and it sits just perfectly with no cargo. Not sure that is the complete answer.

Maybe add some Bilstein's?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tom

[mc71454]

Get the WDH..I am sure you have more like 400+ pounds on the tongue (approx 10% to 15% of trailer weight). Anything more you can transfer to the front wheels of your Tundra will help a LOT.

[j4x4ar3]

Originally Posted by tomhole

Just got back from a long weekend towing my pop up camper. Here's its stats:

GVWR: 3,500 lbs
GVW (weighed at truck stop): 3,300 lbs
Hitch weight (weighed at truck stop): 420 lbs

A little heavy on the hitch due to a 4 bike rack on the front of the camper, an extra propane tank and a battery.

I picked up the trailer and my 2005 DC 2WD sat nice and level with no WDH. Rode great.

Loaded up for the trip up and things were not as good. I loaded 500 lbs of cargo in the bed and 450 lbs of humans. That kept me well below my cargo limit (~1,400 lbs with a 1680 lbs limit). But the truck bounced a lot and bottomed out a couple of times.

On the way home, I was careful to keep the heavy cargo up front in the bed and that seemed to help. Plus we had about 200 lbs less cargo. Much better ride.

I could get a WDH and get 100 lbs or so off the hitch, but that won't help with the cargo issue. I'm nowhere near the limit on the Tundra for hitch weight and it sits just perfectly with no cargo. Not sure that is the complete answer.

Maybe add some Bilstein's?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tom

WDH doesn't get the weight off the hitch it only redistributes it across all available axles. you'll still have 400# on the hitch that has to be included in the overall cargo weight of the truck. The WDH will however improve the ride somewhat as it creates a rigid link between your truck and trailer which may help decrease bounce some. As you noted though, your tongue weight might be a little heavy for your trailer. Try loading some stuff in the trailer more over the axles or in the rear of the trailer. According to your numbers you're about 200# away from your cargo limit. You're going to bounce no matter what that close to the limit. Stiffer springs in the rear might help as well. Personaly I never have liked the bike racks on the tongue of the trailer. If I had a PU I would probably go for a trailer mounted roof system to even things out. JMHO

[tomhole]

Ahhh, so a WDH would not remove hitch weight, just re-distribute it. THat's good to know.

My bike rack is the roof mounted kind, just on the front of the camper, so that is better than a tongue mounted one. I think the combo of 2 propane tanks, a battery and 4 bikes has gotten the tongue weight up there.

Lemme run this by ya. I have been wanting to add an external storage bin. I have the rear bumber on the pop up available to have a box mounted (maybe a nice aluminum one). Love to store folding camp chairs, chocks, hoses and maybe an old shoe or two in there. No more than 100 lbs, including the box. That would bring my hitch weight down by 100 lbs or so (to a more reasonable 320 lbs). Would that be a smart move or setting myself up for disaster? I guess if the hitch gets light and sway starts, I can adjust the contents of the box.

Whadya think?

Thanks,

Tom

[j4x4ar3]

Originally Posted by tomhole

Ahhh, so a WDH would not remove hitch weight, just re-distribute it. THat's good to know.

My bike rack is the roof mounted kind, just on the front of the camper, so that is better than a tongue mounted one. I think the combo of 2 propane tanks, a battery and 4 bikes has gotten the tongue weight up there.

Lemme run this by ya. I have been wanting to add an external storage bin. I have the rear bumber on the pop up available to have a box mounted (maybe a nice aluminum one). Love to store folding camp chairs, chocks, hoses and maybe an old shoe or two in there. No more than 100 lbs, including the box. That would bring my hitch weight down by 100 lbs or so (to a more reasonable 320 lbs). Would that be a smart move or setting myself up for disaster? I guess if the hitch gets light and sway starts, I can adjust the contents of the box.

Whadya think?

Thanks,

Tom

Well I would recomend hopping on over to the RV.NET open forums regarding a rear storage. You will have widely varied opinions on connecting anything to the rear bumper other than a spare tire. You are correct in stating that it will lift some weight off the tongue however it is not directly proportional to the amount of weight you put in the bin. That would all depend on where your axle is located in regards to the center of the overall trailer length. Most are rear of center so 100# of weight may only take 75# off the tongue. Not a math expert but it's not 1 to 1 due to the whole lever action thing. One thing though would be to make sure your bumper can handle that type of weight. Not all trailer bumpers are load bearing. You could accidentially go the other way as well by being tempted by the extra storage in the rear and overload it making your tongue too lite in which case you risk inducing sway. Just remember to use the 60/40 rule when packing and you'll be fine though. That's 60% of the weight ahead of the axle and 40% behind the axle. That rule holds true no matter what type of trailer you have or what kind of rig you pull it with. If you're only considering a couple of chairs.. throw it in the bed of the truck and forget it. BTW the cargo box alone will weigh 75-100% empty as it is.. especially if it's a wooden box and proper mounting hardware is used.

Good Luck

[toyoda5]

Originally Posted by tomhole

Just got back from a long weekend towing my pop up camper. Here's its stats:

GVWR: 3,500 lbs
GVW (weighed at truck stop): 3,300 lbs
Hitch weight (weighed at truck stop): 420 lbs

A little heavy on the hitch due to a 4 bike rack on the front of the camper, an extra propane tank and a battery.

I picked up the trailer and my 2005 DC 2WD sat nice and level with no WDH. Rode great.

Loaded up for the trip up and things were not as good. I loaded 500 lbs of cargo in the bed and 450 lbs of humans. That kept me well below my cargo limit (~1,400 lbs with a 1680 lbs limit). But the truck bounced a lot and bottomed out a couple of times.

On the way home, I was careful to keep the heavy cargo up front in the bed and that seemed to help. Plus we had about 200 lbs less cargo. Much better ride.

I could get a WDH and get 100 lbs or so off the hitch, but that won't help with the cargo issue. I'm nowhere near the limit on the Tundra for hitch weight and it sits just perfectly with no cargo. Not sure that is the complete answer.

Maybe add some Bilstein's?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tom

Tom here is what I did to my 04 tundra dc 4x4 trd. add a leave spring in the back and 2.5 lift to the front. we pull a 19ft travel traler and lots of gear for 5 people. the truck sits level due to the leave spring and rides ok unloaded.you may not need a WDH if you can distribute the load, I put all my heavy stuff at top center gravity of the trailer and work around with the rest, try to keep truck bed empty or as ligt as possible is best to pull than to carry, and your truck will pull it no with problem. try to get a sway bar it will help.good luck be safe.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by tomhole

Just got back from a long weekend towing my pop up camper. Here's its stats:

GVWR: 3,500 lbs
GVW (weighed at truck stop): 3,300 lbs
Hitch weight (weighed at truck stop): 420 lbs

A little heavy on the hitch due to a 4 bike rack on the front of the camper, an extra propane tank and a battery.

I picked up the trailer and my 2005 DC 2WD sat nice and level with no WDH. Rode great.

Loaded up for the trip up and things were not as good. I loaded 500 lbs of cargo in the bed and 450 lbs of humans. That kept me well below my cargo limit (~1,400 lbs with a 1680 lbs limit). But the truck bounced a lot and bottomed out a couple of times.

On the way home, I was careful to keep the heavy cargo up front in the bed and that seemed to help. Plus we had about 200 lbs less cargo. Much better ride.

I could get a WDH and get 100 lbs or so off the hitch, but that won't help with the cargo issue. I'm nowhere near the limit on the Tundra for hitch weight and it sits just perfectly with no cargo. Not sure that is the complete answer.

Maybe add some Bilstein's?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tom

The problem you have is that 420 lbs of trailer tongue weight actually puts about 560 lbs on the rear suspension if you don't use a WDH. Here's why:
(1) All of the tongue weight (as you expect) is going on the rear axle.
(2) Additionally, because the tongue weight is being applied about 4 feet behind the rear axle, it's actually lifting (unweighting) the front of the truck through a teeter-totter action with the rear axle as the pivot point. The amount of unweighting is proportional to the ratio of wheelbase to rear overhang (distance from axle to hitch ball)...which is about 3:1 or 140 lbs. The 140 lb unweighting of the front suspension is contributing a lot to the bounciness of your ride and it's definitely reducing your truck's steering and front wheel braking effectiveness. And finally since that weight off the front didn't vanish into space, it wound up on the rear suspension. Adding all the cargo (especially any cargo that's behind the rear axle) just compounded the problem.

By comparison, a WDH distributes about a third of the tongue weight to the front axle (increasing it by 140 lbs instead of letting it decrease by 140 lbs). It leaves a third (only 140 lbs) on the rear axle, and puts the remaing third back on the trailer axle(s). So instead of being loaded with 560 lbs from the trailer, your rear axle is only being loaded with 140 lbs and that 420 lb difference will make a huge difference in how well the rear suspension handles the rest of the cargo you're hauling.

By contrast, beefing up the rear suspension is not going to do anything for the over load you have on the rear nor will it fix the unweighting of the front suspension. And if you don't match the increased spring rate with increased shock damping rates, you'll have an evil riding truck.

As for putting additional weight on the trailer's bumper, I strongly recommend you do NOT do this. The problem is you'll greatly increase the trailer's tendancy to sway because the center of gravity will be almost directly over (or worse, behind) the trailer's natural pivot point, its axle(s). For maximum trailer stability and sway resistance, the CG of the trailer should be well ahead of its axles (the reason for the 60/40 loading rule). Furthermore, with the additional weight behind the axle, the trailer will be much more prone to inducing up and down bounce on the hitch and that will make the truck's ride a heckuva lot worse. It could also contribute to a loss of control if the trailer induces a fore/aft oscillation in the truck just when you need maximum downforce on the front for steering or braking.

A final advantage of using a WDH instead of beefed up rear suspension or weight behind the trailer axle is most WDH either come with good sway control or provide for the easy addition of sway control. If you don't have a WDH, it's very difficult to find and mount a sway control device.

My very strong recommendation is you just get the WDH...it may not be the most macho solution but it's definitely the most sophisticated, the safest, and by far the best performing solution.

[tomhole]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

My very strong recommendation is you just get the WDH...it may not be the most macho solution but it's definitely the most sophisticated, the safest, and by far the best performing solution.

I'm convinced. Which one and where to buy?

3,500 lbs GVWR trailer

I'm thinking a 400/4000 single bar would be sufficient. The 500/5000 dual bars aren't a lot more. Are these things transferable to other trailers?

While I'm waiting, I will peruse the archives.

THanks,

Tom

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by tomhole

I'm convinced. Which one and where to buy?

3,500 lbs GVWR trailer

I'm thinking a 400/4000 single bar would be sufficient. The 500/5000 dual bars aren't a lot more. Are these things transferable to other trailers?

While I'm waiting, I will peruse the archives.

THanks,

Tom

Good decision.

500/5000 gives you a little margin so you won't have to use max deflection on the bars and thereby somewhat constrain their ability to move during sharp turns. A 400 single won't be enough, especially with your bikes on the trailer tongue.

Lots of choices in brands/types. If I were you I'd start with a basic Reese Round bar (550 rating) and add on sway control (cam or friction) if needed.

Yes, they almost always can be readily transferred to another trailer since the snap up brackets are generally attached to the tongue with a screw clamp.

[tomhole]

This seems like a peach for $399 (free shipping):



http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog...&cat=74&page=1

About $140 more than the 550 Reese, but it seems to be highly regarded on the tv.net site.

Tom

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by tomhole

This seems like a peach for $399 (free shipping):



http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog...&cat=74&page=1

About $140 more than the 550 Reese, but it seems to be highly regarded on the tv.net site.

Tom

Equ-i-lizer WDH are highly regarded because of their ease of setup and hookup and because their sway control (though friction based) is among the best. A tad pricey (as you noted) but definitely a quality product that will last. Might be a bit of overkill for your current trailer but you won't regret the purchase downstream.

Keep in mind that WDH are fairly heavy (typically around 30 to 40 lbs for the total of the various pieces) so shipping can get costly from an internet retailer. Be sure to compare total price (item price plus shipping) for online vs a local RV company before ordering.