Well, I drug my Roo 23ss to the truck stop today and got as many weights as the system would allow (language barrier, loud trucks and muffled PA limited my capabilities). Here's the raw data:
TV is 2005 TUndra DC SR5 4x2 added full length NERFs and Access cover. Trailer is a 2006 Rockwood Roo 23ss hybrid travel trailer with all factory options except heated holding tanks. Waters were full (31 gal). Propane full. No grey or black water. Extra battery on tongue. Everything else was stock from the dealer. No camping gear, no people, no sheets, no soap. no nuthin'.
First weigh was w/o the WDH engaged. WD bars stowed in truck.
Last weigh was truck only, WD bars stowed in truck.
Steer - 2700
Drive - 2380
Total - 5080
Do with them what you will, but this is what I found interesting:
1. A 23ss with all my options plus water and propane weighs 4,860 lbs. The GVWR is 4,820 lbs. The trailer is overweight before I add ANYTHING else. Inconceivable.
2. The 23ss axles with WDH engaged weighed 4,340 lbs. The GAWR is 4,400 lbs combined. A 60 lbs margin. I did not weigh each axle individually, but I'll bet one was over 2,200 lbs (the GAWR for each axle). Take another link on the bars and you're at the limit.
3. A WDH is mandatory for this setup. Without it, my TV's rear axle was seeing 940 lbs and that lifted 300 lbs off the front axle. Not good. With the WDH engaged, my front axle was the same weight as w/o the trailer, the rear saw 520 lbs and the trailer picked up 120 lbs. I think I could do with another link, eh? Also, makes an important point that the way to fix a sagging rear is NOT with airbags, Timbres or HD shocks. You need a WDH.
4. I am under all my limits with enough margin to add gear.
If I take another link on the WDH, I can get a little more margin on the back axle. Plan to add 500 lbs of water bags (humans) and 500 lbs of gear to the truck. Should be fine, doncha think?
If you haven't already, go weigh your rig. I have been suprised both times (owned pop up trailer pulled behind minivan before this. That's why I bought a Tundra).
Do with them what you will, but this is what I found interesting:
1. A 23ss with all my options plus water and propane weighs 4,860 lbs. The GVWR is 4,820 lbs. The trailer is overweight before I add ANYTHING else. Inconceivable.
Unfortunately all too conceivable. The Cargo Carrying Capacity (CCC)...difference between GVWR and "empty weight" (no options)...on most RVs (any kind, even the big 5ers) is often only 1000 lbs or less. Add the typical options and fill the fresh water tank and you've eaten up most of the CCC. It's no wonder that the RV Safety Education Foundation has found that around half of all RVs they weigh at their weigh ins are overloaded.
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2. The 23ss axles with WDH engaged weighed 4,340 lbs. The GAWR is 4,400 lbs combined. A 60 lbs margin. I did not weigh each axle individually, but I'll bet one was over 2,200 lbs (the GAWR for each axle). Take another link on the bars and you're at the limit.
3. A WDH is mandatory for this setup. Without it, my TV's rear axle was seeing 940 lbs and that lifted 300 lbs off the front axle. Not good. With the WDH engaged, my front axle was the same weight as w/o the trailer, the rear saw 520 lbs and the trailer picked up 120 lbs. I think I could do with another link, eh? Also, makes an important point that the way to fix a sagging rear is NOT with airbags, Timbres or HD shocks. You need a WDH.
Yep, another link would be just right. And thanks for adding more data to the evidence that a WDH and only a WDH is the solution for rear axle loading (overloading).
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4. I am under all my limits with enough margin to add gear.
If I take another link on the WDH, I can get a little more margin on the back axle. Plan to add 500 lbs of water bags (humans) and 500 lbs of gear to the truck. Should be fine, doncha think?
I agree...should be fine.
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If you haven't already, go weigh your rig. I have been suprised both times (owned pop up trailer pulled behind minivan before this. That's why I bought a Tundra).
Tom
Absolutely agree that weighing the rig is a must...and can be very eyeopening. I've had mine weighed twice and will probably get a third weighing next summer due to changes I've made in the load/on board equipment.
The RVSEF (mentioned above) does weighins around the nation (check their website around mid January for next year's schedule)...but unlike the data from a commercial scale, they weigh the load on each tire so you can determine if a specific tire (or given axle) is overloaded.
__________________ Ray
Natural White '03 Access Cab V8 SR5 4X4 with TRD Off Road Suspension, Limited Slip Differential, and Towing Package
Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Hellwig Anti-Roll bar, Prodigy Trailer Brake Controller, Autometer Z-Series Transmission Temperature Gauge, Magnefine Transmission Filter
Utility & Misc Mods: Genuine Toyota OEM Step (Nerf) bars, Peragon Tonneau Cover, TracRac Rack and Rail System, Muth Signal Mirrors, Pop&Lock tailgate lock, TruSpeed speedometer calibrator, "$20" RS-3200 Upgrade, Auto-Dimming mirror w/ Temp and Compass, Clear/Red/Clear Taillights with Silverstar Signal bulbs, 3M Clear Bra
Ray, Is it possible to overload the WDH bars by overtightening? What about driving up a steep driveway or through steep dips, seems that when the front of the truck goes up it stresses the bars (the chains are pulling the brackets on the tongue rearward)
Well, I drug my Roo 23ss ......
1. A 23ss with all my options plus water and propane weighs 4,860 lbs. The GVWR is 4,820 lbs. The trailer is overweight before I add ANYTHING else. Inconceivable.
Check with your trailer manufacture. I think you're not reading your numbers correctly. The GVWR of that trailer would be at least 5500# since it has two slides. The 23RS has a GVWR of 4930 with only one slide. Unfortunately the Forest River web site still shows TBA for the 2005 23SS model. My hard sided travel trailer which is 26' has a dry weight of 4200# with a GVWR of 6000# which was later adjusted ot 7000# after dealer testing. Loaded I'm just about 5000#. That's literally almost a ton more space available. Using the 23RS numbers there's about 1100#-1300# worth of CCC left after options.
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Tacoma V6 Auto 4x4 Double Cab 128"
White
TRD Off-Road
TRD CAT Back Exhaust, Bed Mat, Husky Floor Mats, Wildcat Flash Nerf Bars, Prodigy Brake Controller, In Dash cell phone mount, Cargo Bars w/Thule Ski & Bike Attachments, Toyo Open Country A/T Tires (Stock Size)
Ray, Is it possible to overload the WDH bars by overtightening? What about driving up a steep driveway or through steep dips, seems that when the front of the truck goes up it stresses the bars (the chains are pulling the brackets on the tongue rearward)
PS thanks for all the very educational posts.
My .02 ... always disconnect the bars when heading up a steep driveway if it's truely that steep of a transition to go up. If you're adjusted too tight you can actually lift the rear wheels off the ground if you're not carefull. I always disconnect when backing up my driveway to allow my setup to flex.
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Tacoma V6 Auto 4x4 Double Cab 128"
White
TRD Off-Road
TRD CAT Back Exhaust, Bed Mat, Husky Floor Mats, Wildcat Flash Nerf Bars, Prodigy Brake Controller, In Dash cell phone mount, Cargo Bars w/Thule Ski & Bike Attachments, Toyo Open Country A/T Tires (Stock Size)
Check with your trailer manufacture. I think you're not reading your numbers correctly. The GVWR of that trailer would be at least 5500# since it has two slides. The 23RS has a GVWR of 4930 with only one slide. Unfortunately the Forest River web site still shows TBA for the 2005 23SS model. My hard sided travel trailer which is 26' has a dry weight of 4200# with a GVWR of 6000# which was later adjusted ot 7000# after dealer testing. Loaded I'm just about 5000#. That's literally almost a ton more space available. Using the 23RS numbers there's about 1100#-1300# worth of CCC left after options.
The sticker inside the trailer clearly states the GVWR as 4,820 lbs. Here's a picture of the sticker:
Not sure how else you could read it. This is with axles that are rated at 2,220 lbs each. That's a 4400 lbs limit on the axles with the expectation that the hitch will carry the other 420 lbs. Seems reasonable until you actually weigh the trailer and it is overweight before anything is loaded except water.
Forest River switched to more capable 3,000 lbs each axles in July of this year. All the uproar from customers convinced them that they need more cargo carrying capacity than -60 lbs. Numerous inquiries have been made to Forest River to try to determine what the new weight limits are with the new axles, but they aren't talkin' yet. It has a 2" coupler that is limited to 5,000 lbs gross, so it won't go up much. Other light weight hybrids I have seen have 2 5/16" couplers. Forest River just screwed the pooch on this one.
Why weigh your rig?
Absolutely outstanding analysis/report!!!!
It's no wonder that the 
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