Beginner trailer questions

[TundraTaylor]

RockyMtnRay or whoever else...
I have an 05 DC 4x2 TRD. Looking at buying a trailer down the road and am wondering what is the consensus on length and dry weight for a travel trailer or fifth wheel trailer? I've done searches on the topic but it's hard to filter by the type of Tundra that is doing the towing. Also, any brands that you would recommend that meet your answers to the above question? I'm not set on a travel trailer or a fifth wheel yet so I'm still very open minded. If it helps, toy hauling is not in the picture, just bare minimums for camping for a week at the most.

Thanks in advance to everyone!

[Herbicidal]

Hello TundraTaylor!

I have a 2001 Tundra 4x4 and we tow a 26' OutbackRS TT (Check out www.Outbackers.com - I'm on there as Herbicidal) and love it! Camping weight with all our usual "stuff" minus water in the tanks is 5,620 lbs. Weighing of the trailer was conducted on a scale at the local dump. We are a family of four. This particular model has double bunk beds in the front, a manual rear slide out for the queen bed, central heat/air, a pantry, separate fridge/freezer, microwave, oven, bathroom, etc. I have some pictures in my gallery. So that is my trailer recommendation!

From what I have read, you really don't want to tow a TT that has a loaded weight much over 6,000 lbs with the Tundra's. This is a rather general number, and there are methods to calculate them more accurately. I'm sure others will chime in as well.

Good luck with your decision!

[HockeyFreak]

TundraTaylor,

I agree with Herbicidal. You will definitely want stay under 6,000 GVW. I have a 2001 Tundra 2wd and I tow a 26' Flagstaff 26BHSS. Loaded up with everything for camping the trailer is around 5,300 lbs. We weighed at a local CAT Scale (truck stop on the highway).

Good luck with your decision and have fun camping!!

Also, you can check out my pictures as well for some pics of our rig!

[ericb]

A rule of thumb I picked up here is to not exceed 4500 unloaded weight that is posted inside the trailer. I have a 27 foot KZ Frontier with a sticker weight of 4564 and, loaded with 5 or 10 gallons of fresh water, it is all the weight I would ever want to pull.

[KLS]

5th wheels trailers are not a good match for any 1/2-ton truck, and especially one with a very short bed. A 5er puts about twice the weight on the truck, and that limits the trailer size greatly before the truck's GVWR is exceeded. The GVWR is the total the loaded truck can weight.

The truck's GCWR is the max the truck and trailer combined can weight. What's the DC GCWR?...about 10,000-11000#? I feel that about 90% of GCWR is a prudent limit. Find out what the GCWR is for your truck and what your truck actually weighs, especially if you load it down with lots of personal gear. This weight needs to have the weight of people and all the travel gear included.

If you always travel on the flats, 6000# seems to be a reasonable max trailer weight. If you travel in mountains, I'd stay under 5500#. Don't tow in overdrive, and do let the engine rev. These trailer weights are the ready-to-roll weights with all options, full propane, nearly empty water tanks, and all personal gear loaded.

For towing, I strongly recommend either a Drawtite/Reese/Hidden Hitch dual-cam hitch, or an "Equal-i-zer" brand hitch. Both have integral sway damping along with weight distribution and work better than a conventional w/d hitch plus a friction sway damping bar. The best trailer brake controller, I feel, is the Jordan with the Tekonsha Prodigy as a close second best.


Ken

[brandkd]

I tow a 27' Jayco Travel Trailer that weighs 4950 #'s dry, and 6500 loaded. My 05 DC pulls it awesome. I wouldn't go any heavier.
Check out my pics.

[RockyMtnRay]

Pretty much good advice from the previous posts, only a couple of things need to be re-emphasized.

First, the DC is heavier than an AC Tundra. Most of the folks who've previously posted in this thread are towing with an Access Cab Tundra which weighs about 400 lbs less than an equivalent DC. OTOH, several are also towing with 4WD models which weigh about 400 lbs more than 2WD models (this difference is the same for AC and DC). However all Tundras...AC or DC, 2WD or 4WD share the same 11,800 lb GCWR. So when determining max trailer weight based on someone else's experience, be sure to note whether they have the lighter AC or a heavier 4WD. In any case, choosing a conventional trailer with a "dry weight" (before options and your stuff) of about 4500~5000 lbs is real important. And definitely keep the loaded weight below about 6000 lbs. Because you have a much bigger backseat area than the AC Tundras do, you have a much greater opportunity to load more stuff into the truck and that in turn reduces the amount of capacity left over for the trailer.

The other issue is length...the traditional formula for determining a safe trailer length (one that's short enough that the tow vehicle can control sway) is "4 inches of wheelbase over a baseline of 110 inches for every foot of trailer length over 20 feet". Your DC's wheelbase is a decent 140 inches which translates into a maximum safe trailer length of 27.5 feet (assuming good quality sway control such as the friction type sold by Equ-i-lizer). If you could keep the trailer weight down (as discussed above), you might be able to go up to 29 feet if, but only if, you use absolutely top quality sway control. That would ideally be a Hensley Arrow hitch (pretty pricey at about $3000 retail); possibly do-able with the high performance dual cam models sold by Reese and others. The Hensley hitch uses very unusual trapezodal geometry to basically prevent the trailer from ever swaying; the high performance dual cam hitches not only resist the onset of sway (same as the friction devices) but also provide a centering force that pushes the trailer back behind the tow vehicle (which the friction types can't do...in fact most also resist the recentering).

As for 5th wheel, I agree with Ken (KLS)...these are very problematic to tow with a Tundra (any model). The short bed means you have to be very careful to either get a 5er with an extended pin box or a hitch that slides backwards (hopefully automatically) during turns. Otherwise a sharp turn could produce an expensive crunch between a front corner of the trailer and back corner of the cab. Furthermore, since with a normal passenger/cargo load in the truck (particularly with the DC's spacious backseat), you really only have about 800 lbs of spare load capacity on the rear axle. Since a 5er puts about 20% of its weight on the pin...and nearly all the pin weight rides on the truck's rear axle, you're limited to a 5er that weighs less than about 4000 lbs fully loaded. That in turn means finding a 5er that has a "dry weight" of only about 2800 to 3000 lbs...these exist but they're pretty small and hard to find.

[TundraTaylor]

Thanks to everyone, and Ray you are the Rain Man of trailers...incredible. I think a travel trailer is the best way to go and I really want one shorter than 25' for easy storage and I do not want a pop up. That said, any recommendations other than the ones mentioned earlier? Or, any brands to stay away from because they are dogs? Thanks to everyone.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by TundraTaylor

Thanks to everyone, and Ray you are the Rain Man of trailers...incredible. I think a travel trailer is the best way to go and I really want one shorter than 25' for easy storage and I do not want a pop up. That said, any recommendations other than the ones mentioned earlier? Or, any brands to stay away from because they are dogs? Thanks to everyone.

Thanks for the compliment. I really try to put some usable content into my posts and am glad to hear that's appreciated.

As for suggestions about specific brands/models to get...or to avoid, I'm going to be pass on that for a couple of reasons.

First, there are about a gazillion different trailer manufacturers and each seems to make at least 10 or 20 models. And the manufacturers seem to come and go; the various models definitely come and go.

Second, after I bought my TrailManor 2720SL back in '02, I pretty much stopped paying much attention to what's currently on the market.

Everyone of these 20 gazillion models has differences in layout, weight, and construction quality so you really have to choose for yourself what is right for you and your family. I'd suggest you go around to every RV dealer in your area and see what they're selling.

And since the RV Shows tend to start happening in January, you might also start finding out if any of those will be anywhere near your home. The RV Shows are great for being able to walk through dozens of different trailers in one day under one roof. And you can often get "show special" pricing that's around 10% to 20% off of list.

Whether you find what you think you want by going to lots of dealers or by attending an RV show, the next step is search the forums at RV.NET and see what folks are saying about the manufacturer and model you're thinking of. You might even post a few questions over there.

I might add that an RV Show is how I wound up buying my TrailManor...I went to the show knowing I wanted a folding trailer (for ease of towing and ability to store in my garage) but it had to have hard walls & glass windows (absolutely no plastic or canvas like on a traditional popup)...and it also had to have the full amenities like hot/cold water, holding tanks, a shower, a flush toilet, stove (with oven) and decent sized 3 way refrigerator. There were basically only two manufacturers that made what I wanted....TrailManor and HiLo...and by comparing them almost side by side I soon saw how much more interior space I could get on a TM for the same towing/storage length as a HiLo. Plus the TM was much, much lighter at the same towing length. The only issue was the TM was also much, much more expensive at the same towing length. But I figured the extra cost was worth it and so I ordered a TM right there at the show. If I hadn't gone to the show, I most probably would have just bought a HiLo from a local dealer and not even known there was also a very good TM dealer right here in my town.

[tomhole]

Ray summed it up nicely. Watch out for the GVWR on the truck. I have the same truck as you and tow a 5,000 lbs loaded trailer. Hitch weight is 640 lbs. With my family of 4, firewood and a genset in the truck, I am AT the GVWR of the truck. No one really thinks about that. Most worry about trailer weight and hitch weight, and that is good, but then forget about GAWR and GVWR on the truck.

So, I am at my GVWR limit of my '05 DC SR5 4X2 Tundra with a 5,000 lbs trailer. It has a 6,800 lbs tow capacity. Seems odd, doesn't it? That's why I always recommend a trip to the scales BEFORE you buy a trailer. Put everything in the truck that you plan to have in there when you go camping. Gas, people, cargo. Go weigh the truck. Subtract that from 11,800 lbs and that is your tow limit. Subtract the same weight from 6,600 lbs (GVWR) and that is your hitch weight limit. Kinda simple, really, but important.

For my case here is what I found:

Truck weight: 6,000 lbs (4 people, 1/2 tank of gas, enough wood for 3 days, generator)

11,800 - 6000 = 5,800 lbs This is my ACTUAL towing weight limit
6600-6000 = 600 This is my ACTUAL hitch weight limit

If I carried less cargo (no firewood or genset), I would get higher numbers:

Truck weight: 5500 lbs (1/2 tank gas, 4 humans)

11,800-5500 = 6300 lbs tow limit
6,600 - 5500 = 1100 lbs hitch weight limit

I hope this proves a point. An empty 4x2 DC can tow 6800 lbs if it is completely empty. Take that into account.

As far as my trailer, the Tundra does well. Not great, but well. If I don't load carefully and adjust the weight ditribution bars right, the back end bottoms out on bumps. That's because I am at the GVWR limit and near the rear GAWR limit. I can't imagine putting more weight on the back end with a larger trailer. I would have to reduce my cargo for sure. Power is adequate. Won't win a race, but that's not my style so it works out well.

All this data is not meant to scare you off, just make you aware. If I went by the specs, I would be severly overloaded.

So, which one to buy? Ray said it best. Go look and sign up on RV.net I bought a Roo 23SS hybrid TT because it was recommended and the flooplan fit us perfectly. If a Starcraft or Coyote had met our floorplan requirements, we would have bought one of those instead. They all seem to have a good reputation. It's a matter of defining what you want (that's really hard) and then buying the one that meets your needs. Only you can do that.

Good luck,

TOm

[KamperBob]

Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay

As for 5th wheel, I agree with Ken (KLS)...these are very problematic to tow with a Tundra (any model). The short bed means you have to be very careful to either get a 5er with an extended pin box or a hitch that slides backwards (hopefully automatically) during turns. Otherwise a sharp turn could produce an expensive crunch between a front corner of the trailer and back corner of the cab. Furthermore, since with a normal passenger/cargo load in the truck (particularly with the DC's spacious backseat), you really only have about 800 lbs of spare load capacity on the rear axle. Since a 5er puts about 20% of its weight on the pin...and nearly all the pin weight rides on the truck's rear axle, you're limited to a 5er that weighs less than about 4000 lbs fully loaded. That in turn means finding a 5er that has a "dry weight" of only about 2800 to 3000 lbs...these exist but they're pretty small and hard to find.

It might interest some to learn more about a 3500# Fifth Wheel from Scamp (scamptrailers.com). I have one and it pulls well with a stock V6 Tacoma. My camper does not have an oven (optional) but most other options mentioned earlier. Check 'em out...

Happy trails,
-Bob

[tomhole]

Forest River has a lightweight 5er out as well.

Tom

http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/flo...aff/floorplans

[KLS]

Check with rv.net and you'll find plenty of complaints about Forest River building junk trailers and not taking care of the customers.


Ken

[tomhole]

You'll find just as many saying that they build a great product and stand behind it. At least the Roo hybrid line.

Tom

[huachuca]

Hi TundraTaylor,

"Also, any brands that you would recommend that meet your answers to the above question? I'm not set on a travel trailer or a fifth wheel yet so I'm still very open minded. If it helps, toy hauling is not in the picture, just bare minimums for camping for a week at the most."

Given the above qualifications, I'll second KamperBob's suggestion that you take a look at molded fiberglass units such as Scamp or Casita. You won't find these at any RV shows as they only sell mfr direct. Upon request, either factory will give you a reference list of owners in your area who will gladly show you their camper and answer any questions you might have.

Factory links:
Scamp - http://www.scamptrailers.com/
Casita - http://www.casitatraveltrailers.com/home.html

Boards:
http://www.fiberglassrv.com/
http://www.casitaclub.com/

We tow a 16 Scamp with an 05 Tacoma 4WD DC TRD and its a great match. I haven't found the need for a WD hitch or sway bar but do strongly suggest a brake controller (Prodigy for us), especially if you'll be spending any time in mountainous areas.

Be wary of factory spec weights. Scamp lists a dry weight of 1750 lbs and a tongue weight of 135 lbs for our model without options. Keyword here being 'without'. The original owner of ours ordered it with A/C, furnace, three-way fridge, dual propane tanks, HD battery, toilet, shower and most other factory options, He then added a roof mounted satellite dish, top of the line tunes system, awning and microwave - the boy did enjoy his creature comforts. We camp mostly in State/National Parks and Forests, BLM or TVA lands with National Forests being our favorite. Most of these have 'rustic' or 'dispersed' sites with fees ranging between free & $10/night. These seldom have hookups so I added a tongue mounted Honda 3000W genset. With the fresh water tank filled plus bikes, chairs, grill, screenroom, lantern and other 'necessities' the trailer weight right at 3K in camping form. This is about 1250 lbs above the number listed by Scamp with close to 200 lbs of that adding to the tongue weight. Not a problem here but just be sure to add the weight or your camping needs to whatever the factory publishes.

The 19' fifth wheel Scamp mentioned by Bob is a really nice unit and I know one owner who tows his with an older Ford Ranger. We met in NC where he was on his way home to Florida from a trip to Canada so that may be some endorsement for pulling these with a smaller truck.

The Tacoma & 16' Scamp is ideal for our (wife and I) camping needs. We camp year round (NC coast last weekend, Big Bend Texas after Christmas) but tend to spend most of our time outside the trailer weather permitting. The double bunks provide adequate room for our college age daughter on the rare times she decides to join us. On the other hand, a good friend has a 29' fifth wheel Alumascape towed by a 3500 dually with diesel and allison and he's planning to upgrade because they 'need more room'.

Good luck with your decision and hope you'll enjoy camping as much as we do.

Al