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TundraGeneral discussion forum for the 2007 and later Toyota Tundra.
This is a discussion thread titled "Toyota Tailgate Facts", within the Tundra forum, part of the Truck Forums category.
jkd, I am keeping it on the topic, as I already contributed my 2 cents to this thread and you should do the same instead of criticizing the tailgate, we all need to work on our ideas on improving this tailgate. Toyota will have its own fix out for this soon enough, just won't happen overnight.
That theory doesn't hold water because of the fact that the long wheelbase ATV total weight is about twice the weight of the smaller short WB models. My Polaris 500 is a 715 lb. pig and a short WB Susuki is 400 or less. It's not ramp weight alone causing the problem. Like I posted, I have an aluminum sheet installed on my gate and the other day I bounced my 175 lb. bod up and down as I sat on the middle of the sheet while looking at the metal separation area as best I could. I could see white primer appear off and on as I bounced showing the inner and outer skin working against each other. I'm not saying the top edge can't be bent, but if you pull the black trim off like I did the other day you'll see the outer skin wraps over and is spot welded (not crimped) to the inner in 15 spots along the top edge. Also if you take time to remove the access panel and see how and where the gussets are I think you'll end up with a more well informed idea of just where the problem lies.
My aluminum ramps are 40ft from the back door so I just went out and with one end on the ground and with the other end tailgate height I held the tailgate end up with just my forefinger so that doesn't enter in to the problem to a great extent.
Rather than trying to impress anyone with a theory of angles, weights during loading, and on and on, personally I'll just agree with the service manager I talked to this morning, the tailgate should handle an ATV just like the other brands.
Hi JKD,
Sorry about the confusion here, but it’s not theory.
It is Fact!
Has to be right? This is the Facts thread! LOL
It’s just that my run-on sentence was not as clear as it could have been without adding some underscores to underscore the point I was unsuccessful at making. LOL
I will copy and paste and add my highlights in the hopes of doing a better job of it the second time around.
“It also may help you understand the loads put on your tailgates using ramps, and why one ATV of a given weightmight cause a problem (The shorter the wheelbase, the higher the percentage of weight on the tailgate), and another ATV of the same weightdoes not cause a tailgate issue (Longer wheelbase puts less weight, on the tailgate edge at any moment in time.)”
As for your Polaris and Suzuki, that can all be calculated too, given any weight, any wheelbase and any length of ramps.
While the forty-foot ramp does allow you to pick one end up while the other end is loaded, it also does the opposite as the ATV approached the tailgate, greatly increasing the load on the tailgate when the ATV gets really close.
In fact, with a long ramp like that something close to 95% of the total weight of the ATV would be on the lip of the tailgate just as the ATV approaches it.
That is far more weight on the tailgate lip then would be there if using of a 6-foot ramp and the same ATV.
What ramp length give’th, Ramp length also take ‘th away.
One minor thing you missed -- the weight of the ramp itself, otherwise a good explanation. How about force per sq inch exerted on the tailgate at the lips at the top of the ramp? This is the primary concerning force for causing the tailgate to display stress fractures.
I'll be posting actual figures when I do some measurements in the real world using *one* ramp as one-half of the representative weight. I have a Polaris sportman 400 quad and a heavy steel ramp for it so I'll go ahead and measure the height of the top lip of tailgate to ground and then measure the angles out for you. This would only be representative of the actual ramp I use to load my dirtbike (A '04 Honda XR250R at about 250 pounds w/full tank) however.
Update:
7' ramp extended towards a 33.55" height, gives me a 23.54 degree angle. With a 250 pound dirtbike w/front tire on tailgate and rear tire off, the force exerted downwards, at the top of the tailgate this would be 270 pounds, with two ramps this would be a whooping 540 pounds if loading two bikes simulateously. IF loading my polaris quad which weighs in around 500 pounds, this would be 545 pounds distributed across two ramps exerting onto the tailgate or 272.50 pounds on either ramp pushing on the tailgate. The pressure applied on the tailgate is even more significant given the little surface area of the bolt that presses down on the tailgate (think of it as a finger pressing down on a ledge and you have the lip design of my loading ramp). These figures would be compounded with the extra weight of the ramp resting on the tailgate's lip. You get the good idea of the pressures involved in causing our tailgates to crack at the seams.
Sanosuke!
Negative, my friend, this simply is not correct.
I believe there is a major flaw in your calculations as this goes against basic laws of physics.
A 250 pound bike, with the front tire on the tailgate, and the rear tire on a 7 foot ramp, and a ramp angle of approx 23.5 degrees really can’t be putting much more then 103 pounds of weight on the tailgate in that position. Can’t calculate it out exactly without knowing the wheelbase of the bike.
There is no Physical way for the weight to exceed 100% of the total weight, without cantilevering, which isn’t in play when one end of the ramp is sitting on the ground.
I apologize in that I do not wish to come across as being a jerk to you. I really do wish to be helpful. Perhaps I can try to simplify this to my own minds level.
Instead of a Bike, let’s use a Unicycle, one wheel.
And instead of a ramp on an angle, let say it is a horizontal ramp, one end on a sawhorse, one end on the tailgate.
For easy math lets say the ramp is 10 feet long too.
This will allow an explanation without the complexities of multiple wheel (load) locations and angle of assent. We can just focus on weight distribution.
If the Unicycle weight 200 pounds, and it is sitting on the ramp, right on top of the sawhorse, then 100% of the weight, 200 pounds would be sitting on the sawhorse end of the ramp, and no weight (other then the ramp itself) would be sitting on the tailgate.
If you move the Unicycle ONE FOOT toward the tailgate, one foot away from the sawhorse, the weight would shift in direct INVERSE relationship to how far the unicycle has moved.
One foot is 10% of 10 feet. That means, 10% of the unicycle weight (20 pounds) is now on the tailgate and 90% of the unicycle weight (180 pounds) is on the sawhorse end.
If you move another one foot, now two feet from the sawhorse, then 20 % of the weight is on the tailgate (40 pounds) and 80% of the weight (160 pounds) is on the sawhorse.
Weight transfer, as the unicycle (load) moves across the ramp, is directly proportionate to the inverse of the percent of DISTANCE from either end of the ramp.
At no time can the weight on the tailgate, or the saw horse exceed the total weight of 200 pounds IF the ramp is supported at both ends. (One end on a sawhorse the other on the tailgate, or one end on the ground and the other on the tailgate.)
Physics says so, as will any measurement taken.
The weight can indeed exceed the total weight of the unicycle, but only if that weight is cantilever on one end of the ramp. Meaning the ramp sits on the tailgate on one end, but hangs in mid air on the other end.
Any weight place out from the tailgate with a cantilevered ramp will indeed have a load multiplier effect. I think maybe that is what you may have been thinking of.
Once again, I do not in any way wish to offend you. I just did not think it would be right to let something stand as FACT, which is in error.
Please feel free to correct me at times too. I make a lot of mistakes and try to learn from all of them. God knows I have a ½ ton to learn, especially how to load it in my Tundra!!
I wasn't trying to impress anyone with theories, especially since my math isn't a theory at all. I also wasn't trying to get this thread off topic, I was simply proving that the product mentioned in the beginning on the thread does serve a purpose and can lighten the load on the tailgate quite a bit.
I'm grateful to anyone who has taken measurements of the length of their ramps, the ramp angles, the weight of the ramps, the weight of their quads, etc. But you need to look at the one line I put in my post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
I made a lot of assumtions in this calculation, but the gist is there...
I neglected the weight of the ramps, I neglected the actual force in psi on the tailgate, I neglected the fact that while the ATV is on an angle more weight will be on the back wheels, I neglected that the suspension sags and the angle changes while that ATV traverses the ramp, I neglected dynamic forces... I neglected a WHOLE lot of stuff just to do a simple back of the napkin calculation to get an idea of how this product might actually save our gates if Toyota gives us the Tacoma treatment. I'm an engineer, I do this stuff for a living... I didn't want to go crazy with calculations on my personal time!
I know that if I need to load an ATV, I'm going to look into one of these things, or make one myself...
In the mean time, I laugh that Toyota could easily solve the problem by issuing a new sticker or owners manual supplement (like they did for the CM not being able to haul a 5th wheel) and repair the already broken tailgates. This will be a helluva lot cheaper for them, but every day they wait they are going to cost themselves more money. I'm still waiting for a class action lawsuit...
__________________
2008 Honda CR-V EX AWD
2008 Honda Civic LX
Unless There Is Toyota Service Bulletin On How To Fix Seam Separation, You Will Have To Explain That You Didn't Overload Gate To Cause It.
Had The Internal Latch,clips Etc Replaced Due To Stuck Gate Not Opening Without Concern Due To Tsb Out.
Toyota Needs To Admit Problem To Public And With Letters To Owners, One.
Two, They Need To State To Not Load Gates Until Fix Or Replace Gates.
I Never Expected This Kind Of Problem, So I Am Babying Gate By Not Even Seating On It.
To Not Load Dropped Gate With Weight And Drive My Truck???!!!???
Toyota, If Working Man Gets Hurt From Fleet Truck Not Holding Weight On Gate, You Will Loose Sales Of Those Work White Trucks You Sell In High Numbers .....
Tell Problem Exists To Dealers,that Way They Can Be Prepared.
[QUOTEWhile the forty-foot ramp does allow you to pick one end up ][/quote]
SAY WHAT?????
I said my ramps were just 40 ft. AWAY FROM THE BACK DOOR, so when the subject of ramp weight came up, I ran out mid-post out of curiosity and as I thought, my ramp weight by itself is not an issue if I can hold both including the folded center section up with one finger, right?
Plus most of the loading weight theories are just speculation due to the fact that the ramp angle is fairly steep. Steep enough that of course to a way lesser extent, like climbing a stepladder leaning against the side of a house, most of your weight is on the ground versus the side of the house. Longer the ramps, less angle and therefore more weight on the tailgate with an ATV climbing the ramps.
Quote:
A 250 pound bike, with the front tire on the tailgate, and the rear tire on a 7 foot ramp, and a ramp angle of approx 23.5 degrees really can’t be putting much more then 103 pounds of weight on the tailgate in that position. Can’t calculate it out exactly without knowing the wheelbase of the bike.
There is no Physical way for the weight to exceed 100% of the total weight, without cantilevering, which isn’t in play when one end of the ramp is sitting on the ground.
Couldn't agree more, you just stated it much better than myself.
[QUOTEWhile the forty-foot ramp does allow you to pick one end up ]
SAY WHAT?????
I said my ramps were just 40 ft. AWAY FROM THE BACK DOOR, so when the subject of ramp weight came up, I ran out mid-post out of curiosity and as I thought, my ramp weight by itself is not an issue if I can hold both including the folded center section up with one finger, right?
[/quote]
My Mistake, I misinterpreted your post and I Stand Corrected.
Re: Toyota Tailgate Facts
Re: Toyota Tailgate Facts
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