Consmer Reports Threads Merged

[guntech]

To be honest with you, I really don't care what CR or anyone else says about the 07 Tundra. I'm VERY happy with mine and since I'm the one that makes the payments and I'm the one that drives it, MY opinions are the ONLY one that counts.....
As far as resale value, I doubt that in 10 years (yes I plan on owning mine that long) no one will ever remember reading a non-owners opinion of my truck after taking it out for a spin.

[stuball]

Originally Posted by gdotgarrett

I am not sure I understand the symbols here, but how can the audio system, power equipment, and body hardware have different reliabilities between 2WD and 4WD? I am pretty sure they are the same for both vehicles... Can someone post the symbol legend.

I second thought: If these are based on customer surveys then what this is really telling me is that more people purchased the 4WD than the 2WD, and they complained about their clocks, radios, navs, transmission, cam shaft, bed bounce, etc. For example, all of the things emphasized over and over on this forum.

I would like to see the breakdown of the survey participants. Specifically, how many total data points and of those how many owned 4WD vs. 2WD.

That's exactly what I'm thinking too.

Stuball

[gdotgarrett]

Good thing CR doesn't have a reliability category for the tailgate...

[07BlackCrewMax]

I paid the $26 just to research the CR studies on it... some things I just don't understand.

1. The #1 Full sized truck rated was the Chevy Avalanche with an overall of 73 (the highest for a full sized PU Truck). Except for 2007, it has received POOR ratings on it's drive system (an area that the Tundra was dinged) every year since it has been rated (2002) - now for 2007, every area received a Excellent rating except electrical systems which was just Good, but it is still not Recommended and it's New Car Prediction is "Worse than Average"...

2. 3 of the 5 recommended trucks had FAIR accident avoidance ratings and only Good to VG Owner Satisfaction (Compared to the Tundra EXCELLENT owner satisfaction - the only one). The only ones rated Above average (of the Recommended) were the diesels. The other Recommended ones were Average.

3. The only reliability on the new Tundra was for 2007 and across the board (since 2000) the drive system (4WD) was rated good or better - in contrast, the Ford (Recommended) was rated POOR for 4 of the last 5 years, so clearly HISTORY isn't a factor in their predicted Reliability (even though they state that they use a score based on the previous 3 years...). Neither is Customer Satisfaction as the Tundra V8 was ranked first - well above the next closest "Recommended" 1/2 ton, which was Ford F-150 that came in 9th w/ a score of 65.

From reading CR's evaluations, I can only conclude that they are useless in trying to make a real comparison of these trucks. The only thing that it tells me is to drive them all and pick the one you like best. If you don't want a HD Diesel, then the recommended trucks don't score as high as the non-recommended ones...

Maybe Toyota didn't "sponsor" enough CR events... If I hadn't already driven the others and had experience with them (either first hand or through friends, etc.) I still wouldn't know what to buy from this... Even though the Engine and Tranny received VG to Excellent reliability ratings and the Drive system received a Good rating, the Overall Predicted (1 yr data) reliability was the worst rating (POOR)?? I don't get it.

[Tundra Man 2007]

OK, I have always been a supporter of CR but I need some help here. I go down all the categories CR breaksdown the rating into and come up with

4 average categories,
8 above average and
5 excellent

The average of the above is a "Much worse that average"????????? What kind of grading scale is that??????????

Kirk

[ag4ever]

Originally Posted by gdotgarrett

second thought: If these are based on customer surveys then what this is really telling me is that more people purchased the 4WD than the 2WD, and they complained about their clocks, radios, navs, transmission, cam shaft, bed bounce, etc. For example, all of the things emphasized over and over on this forum.

Or it could mean that the 4X4 purchasers are being more critical since the cost is more and they expected more. Not that they expected more than the 2wd, but that they expected a better product in general.

Just a thoought.

[mxsjw]

I hope someone posts a link to CR's retraction when it happens. Nothing that was posted so far makes any sense.

[stevencrosbie]

This worries me...now I have a 2wd truck...but look at the resale value of a Titan...it is horrible...mainly b/c of Consumer Reports.

Also...remember a few years ago with the 4.0L V6 was first introduced in the 4 Runner? That same year CS gave a "poor" rating to the 4 Runner with the V6 but an excellent on the 4.7L V8....made me question why the big difference.

I think in a few years when more data points are entered, we will see this even back out into the above average category.

I can tell you this....the new ratings will cause a spike in extended warranty purchases...I know I'm gonna buy one now just in case.

First year resale will suck because of this...just FYI....but who here really cares about that? We all still love our trucks and there isn't anything on the market that I consider as better.

[slowyota]

Maybe the "average" that they are talking about is last years model?? That's the only thing that would make sense, because the '06 scored higher than the '07....

[seadragon]

This isn't right. There's obviously been an error. That's like a student getting A's and B's ending up with an overall grade of E. Someone at CR messed up. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a correction made. There is NO way Toyota could go from Red circle to Black circle just like that.

[Coal Dragger]

Originally Posted by seadragon

This isn't right. There's obviously been an error. That's like a student getting A's and B's ending up with an overall grade of E. Someone at CR messed up. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a correction made. There is NO way Toyota could go from Red circle to Black circle just like that.

Sure they could go from red circle to black circle. They just did.

Look around the forum at all the transmission replacements, electronic bits that don't work (clock), and other issues. Now how many Tundra owners by percentage post in this or any other automotive forum?

If we have quite a few instances of a small percentage of Tundra owners that post here having issues, then extrapolate that into a number for the rest of the world because the issues we read about on here are not the only ones. It seems that first year reliability has been poor, not because CR says so, but because I can read about all the issues on this site.

[seadragon]

Originally Posted by Coal Dragger

Sure they could go from red circle to black circle. They just did.

Look around the forum at all the transmission replacements, electronic bits that don't work (clock), and other issues. Now how many Tundra owners by percentage post in this or any other automotive forum?

If we have quite a few instances of a small percentage of Tundra owners that post here having issues, then extrapolate that into a number for the rest of the world because the issues we read about on here are not the only ones. It seems that first year reliability has been poor, not because CR says so, but because I can read about all the issues on this site.

Then you must consider the percentage that post on automotive forums that have problems vs not. I would think that most people seek out forums, register and post if they experience a problem and are looking for help/opinions vs just to say hi. For this reason, I've never regarded internet forums, especially product related, as a true representation of the public.

[stuball]

IMO, there is only one full-size pickup more reliable than a 2007 Toyota Tundra, and that is a 2008 Toyota Tundra.

CR has been excellent free advertising for Toyota that only the Big 3 could dream of having. However, it goes without saying that Toyota earned that status and deserves that status. I have no doubt that one year from now the Tundra will be back on the recommended list.

It is not as important to me if a problem occurs in my vehicle, as it is the willingness for the auto manufacturer to correct the problem. And Toyota's instant response to find solutions and correcting problems is second to none.

Stuball

[impilot]

Originally Posted by Coal Dragger

It seems that first year reliability has been poor, not because CR says so, but because I can read about all the issues on this site.

I don't know....what would you consider good reliability? 99% w/o major problems? 99.5%. More?

Let say 99.5%, and assuming 200,000 first year trucks...that means 1,000 trucks with a major problem. Now, on this forum there are maybe, and I mean maybe 40 or 50 foks with real issues (trannys, drive shafts, dash lights going crazy, etc). That is only 5% of the potential problem population.

Now, it is my experience that folks with problems tend to congregate on these types of forums, both to vent and to search for information. I don't think there are wide spread problems here, just be looking at the numbers.

You want to see what a forum looks like with a widespread issue...go to Diesel Place - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums, and check out the 1st gen Duramax (LB7) threads. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of threads about injector issues. Not a dozen, or a few dozen, but hundreds and hundreds. Doing a search there for the word injector in that forum found 500 hits in only the last 5.5 months!!!

Big difference here guys....big difference.

[paulphilly]

Originally Posted by impilot

I don't know....what would you consider good reliability? 99% w/o major problems? 99.5%. More?

Let say 99.5%, and assuming 200,000 first year trucks...that means 1,000 trucks with a major problem. Now, on this forum there are maybe, and I mean maybe 40 or 50 foks with real issues (trannys, drive shafts, dash lights going crazy, etc). That is only 5% of the potential problem population.

Now, it is my experience that folks with problems tend to congregate on these types of forums, both to vent and to search for information. I don't think there are wide spread problems here, just be looking at the numbers.

You want to see what a forum looks like with a widespread issue...go to Diesel Place - Duramax Diesel Discussion Forums, and check out the 1st gen Duramax (LB7) threads. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of threads about injector issues. Not a dozen, or a few dozen, but hundreds and hundreds. Doing a search there for the word injector in that forum found 500 hits in only the last 5.5 months!!!

Big difference here guys....big difference.

Couldn't agree more!! Seriously, how many people visit TS forums to just say, "having a great time in my Tundra and it has 0 issues". Every now and then, someone will start a thread about how happy they are with their Tundra to clearly state a point that not all people are having issues. I have 0 issues with my 09/07 Tundra CM limited with 1700 miles. Does that mean I won't? Of course not, but I put faith in Toyota that they will make it right if something does go wrong. Again, we all know that Tundra isn't perfect, but what truck is? My truck is man-made with literally thousands of parts (many moving parts) driven daily over horrible roads and mountains. I realize that something might go wrong...but, I know Toyota will make it right if it happens. I love my Tundra and smile every time I drive it.