Maybe PRG products should work on this on their "test' Tundra??
I wonder how the new (gulp) 2009 Dodge Ram 1500 will be? New rear 5 link suspension (or whataever it is) that I think states a 1850 lb payload capacity and 9100 lbs towing capacity.
They are trying to address the inherent bounce issues of the typical pickup truck.
Mark
New ram is fully hydro-formed and boxed. Just read that today, actually. 5-link coil is actually better for towing and load than one would think. I'm still surprised that GM gave up on coils in 73.
Demello Off-road and others make frame plates for Tacomas for this exact reason. Most weld on the outside, which I'm not a fan of, but I've seen inside (boxing the frame) as well.
Toyota has just never had good luck with frames. Rust on the 79-95 mini-trucks w/ boxed frames (at rear spring frame mount) and same problem on the Tacoma's now, prompting them to buy back hundreds of thousands of trucks.
All one really has to do is watch the Ford video (fraud or not) to see the frame flex. It's not a suspension issue, unfortunately.
I've read parts of this thread and there are a number of good theories here, but nothing that is going to address the root cause - horrendous frame design (courtesy of Dana Corp).
Toyota attempted to make this tundra better riding truck and went with the box, modified C and C channel frame to smooth the ride. Unfortionally, the torsional stiffness is completely lacking, especially with the externally mounted shocks relying on a stiffer frame than previous internally mounted shocks.
I've been waiting to hear that. Although my opinion may be unqualified I had a suspicion the shock location had something to do with the problem. Not just the bounce but also the torsional shake my CM bed has. Some Ford F-150s had the same shock location and same shake.
I also read the info. on that shackle website (forgot the name-use to be velvet rides) about the frame flex at the kick up. Also when I met with the factory rep. he stated that the frame was designed with RIDE COMFORT in mind,so all that "...how a truck should ride" is BS.
I may consider boxing the frame but when it comes down to it, Toyota should own up to and correct the problem.
Or I can leave it like it is for a why you shouldn't buy a Tundra demo. when someone asks about the truck.
Last edited by rackman; 08-24-2008 at 07:52 AM.
Reason: After thought
I actually looked into having my frame boxed.. I called a number of places that could do some fabrication welding for me.. When I explained to one of the guys what I wanted he didn't recommend it.. He said, the frame was likely Carbon Steel and when you weld plates to close the C you weaken the frame substantially in the weld locations. I dunno how true that is though.
I've been waiting to hear that. Although my opinion may be unqualified I had a suspicion the shock location had something to do with the problem. Not just the bounce but also the torsional shake my CM bed has. Some Ford F-150s had the same shock location and same shake.
I also read the info. on that shackle website (forgot the name-use to be velvet rides) about the frame flex at the kick up. Also when I met with the factory rep. he stated that the frame was designed with RIDE COMFORT in mind,so all that "...how a truck should ride" is BS.
I may consider boxing the frame but when it comes down to it, Toyota should own up to and correct the problem.
Or I can leave it like it is for a why you shouldn't buy a Tundra demo. when someone asks about the truck.
I'm not aware of the problems with the F150, but I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near as bad as the Tundra. Yes, the shock placement does impact the issue, but I don't think it would be nearly as bad *IF* the frame had enough torsional stiffness to support the shock placement. Watch that video and note that the frame moves faster and easier than the rear suspension - torsional stiffness, or lack thereof, is the overall issue here.
Don't buy into any of the ride comfort BS - Toyota is the only company who makes, to the best of my knowledge, different frames/suspensions (up until recently) for the US market. Add to that the fact that most other manufacturers are touting their newly boxed frames, and I think you can make an argument that Toyota completely missed the dart board on this one. Sadly.
I have a 96 T100 that I was going to build as a tow vehicle - 4.7, 5-speed auto, Diamond rear, 33's with airbags... don't have the time or energy to do that anymore, and 05/06 Limited Doublecabs are almost as expensive as 08 Crew Max SR5's... Difficult decision.
I actually looked into having my frame boxed.. I called a number of places that could do some fabrication welding for me.. When I explained to one of the guys what I wanted he didn't recommend it.. He said, the frame was likely Carbon Steel and when you weld plates to close the C you weaken the frame substantially in the weld locations. I dunno how true that is though.
Can you ask them if they have steel plates 3/8 to 1/2 inch thick about 4 or 5 inches wide? This is similar to willybar but instead of putting it on the bed, it will bolt to the frame. Its main purpose is to prevent the frame from twisting .
On the rear frame above the axle, on top of the C channel, there's a big hole there. Same on the other side. The quickest way to locate this is to stand in front of the rear wheel, imagine a vertical centerline on the wheel and and look up all the way to top of the frame, the hole is just slightly off the centerline. I believe this where the mounting bracket for the 5th wheel and gooseneck bolts on to.
So all they have to do is measure the distance from one side of the frame to the other to get the lenght, cut the steel plate, insert the plate between the bed and the frame, once the plate is perfectly lined up and even on both sides, mark the holes, drill the holes, and put some high tensile strenght bolts.
They also have to fabricate a spacer made of 3/8 inch steel. I'm not sure how long they have to be--but as long as the space permits and slightly narrower then the C channel. This will go below the top C channel and its main purpose is to distribute the stress to a wider area to prevent the frame from cracking. So basically, the top of the C channel is going to be sandwiched between the top steel plate and the spacer.
They can also fabricate a beefier spare tire bracket--the "K" looking thing. The stock is just too flimsy.
i dont know if this will help, but after i put my drawtite gooseneck hitch in my truck it doesnt have near the bed bounce it did when i bought it. but i was not experiencing near the bounce you all are refering too. i doubt alot of you all want to drill a 4" hole in the middle of your bed, but it worked for me. the bed bounces and flexes now about the same as the bed on my 93 F-250 diesel did.
have any of you all with 5th wheel or gooseneck hitches experienced this?
i dont know if this will help, but after i put my drawtite gooseneck hitch in my truck it doesnt have near the bed bounce it did when i bought it. but i was not experiencing near the bounce you all are refering too. i doubt alot of you all want to drill a 4" hole in the middle of your bed, but it worked for me. the bed bounces and flexes now about the same as the bed on my 93 F-250 diesel did.
have any of you all with 5th wheel or gooseneck hitches experienced this?
This is what I've read too from another forum member, I forgot if he's from this forum or tundratalk. Can you post pics of the installed mounting frame for the gooseneck or 5th wheel where it is bolted to the frame?
I want to see how the gooseneck mounting frame bolts to the truck frame. Since the mounting frame ties up both sides of the frame, it stiffens it and prevents twisting. I'm thinking about bolting a 3/8 or 1/2 inch steel plate across the frame above the axle. There's already an oblong hole there, one on each side of the frame. Thanks.
i dont know if this will help, but after i put my drawtite gooseneck hitch in my truck it doesnt have near the bed bounce it did when i bought it. but i was not experiencing near the bounce you all are refering too. i doubt alot of you all want to drill a 4" hole in the middle of your bed, but it worked for me. the bed bounces and flexes now about the same as the bed on my 93 F-250 diesel did.
have any of you all with 5th wheel or gooseneck hitches experienced this?
I think this is further evidence that the frame is just too flexible. That goosneck acts as an additional, beefy cross member.
So all they have to do is measure the distance from one side of the frame to the other to get the lenght, cut the steel plate, insert the plate between the bed and the frame, once the plate is perfectly lined up and even on both sides, mark the holes, drill the holes, and put some high tensile strenght bolts.
.
Thats a pretty good idea. You deserve a lot of credit for the time and thought you have put into this problem. How does the Artie Bar sound?... $800 ea.
I have a gooseneck hitch in my truck. It made a huge difference. Absolutely no bed bounce.
They are easy to install. You do not need to drill the frame as the hitch utilizes existing holes.
so if i installed a gooseneck hitch in my truck this would get rid of the bed bounce 100%. what kind of hitch did you get? i dont have it like the cali guys, but it gets alittle springy at times on certain roads down here.
Re: Possible Tundra Bed Bounce CURE FOUND
I dunno how true that is though.
How does the Artie Bar sound?... $800 ea.
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