Shocks & springs have nothing to do with the bounce. I've replaced my shocks with the Rancho Adj. and tried every setting. Not one setting worked to stop or slow down the bounce. I've mentioned this before that it's in the frame where the double "C" meets the single "C". There is a week spot there that if you look at your back seat while all the bouncing is going on...you will see your seat bouncing where the 2 "C's" meet. Try not to have an accident while looking back. You can take a passenger with you and have them look while you drive.Others have changed their springs and shocks..all it did was make their truck stiffer.
When my warranty runs out, I may have a fab shop weld or bolt a piece in that area where they meet to make it stronger.
Sorry, incorrectly matched shocks and springs are the majority of the problem.
I'm not new to this... I have a 1993 Integra that I have torn apart and experimented with over the last 10 years and I know what good suspension setups do and what bad suspension setups do. I modify vehicles for performance, that's what I do.
Back in 2001, some genius decided to sell me Civic springs for my Integra (my coilovers were getting rebuilt, had no choice but to run a simple spring/shock setup) without telling me. I threw them on, went for a drive, hit a bump in the road and the car would not stop hopping in the front and I almost totaled the car. We're talking a few hundred pound difference between the Civic and the Integra but, the spring rates were so different that the stock Integra shocks didn't do anything with the over powering spring.
The Tundras have a very stiff rear spring to handle the weight that they can carry and the shocks are not matched to that stiffness. If aftermarket companies can develop rear shocks that eliminate the issue, that tells me that the shock was the problem.
You don't have to listen to me... but I do know that Rancho is not going to solve your problem. Sorry.
I wonder if leveled trucks with bigger tires still have the bounce. I know from experience that changing the rake trucks have has an effect on ride and handling. The bigger tires add more unsprung weight as well as the ability to absorb bumps better.
I know that having about 250 lb's of lead right up against the tailgate makes this the ride silky smooth but that's not always an option.
__________________
2007 Tundra 5.7 6-spd 2wd
Silver, double cab, short bed
TRD package
We all just have to accept the fact that this is a characteristic of most full size trucks, at least from my experience. The Tundra is stiffer than my last two full size half ton trucks, and all of them bounced on bad road conditions.
One of my friend I hunt with has a 2006 F250, use for his concrete business and to pull his 30' travel trailer. We've been hunting together multiple times the last couple years in his truck and mine. He really loves the ride of the Tundra over his F250. On gravel wash board roads, the Tundra goes over them without a sweat. With his F250, he really needs to slow down so it does skid into the river banks.
Like I mentioned before, when I was in California, certain sections of the freeway was so bad that I felt our rental Dodge Charger front tires is hopping and can feel the up/down motion in the cab. I can image what it would be like in a full size truck with no weight in the back.
__________________ 2007 5.7 Crewmax 4x4 Limited, Slate Metallic
20" Ultra Goliath, 305/55R20 Toyo Open Country AT
2.4" Readylift front w/ 1" Toytec rear blocks
Well, apparently putting weight at the back cures the issues. Everyone seems to agree on that correct? Be it a big slab of steel, some bags of sand, etc.
If it was the frame, why would putting weight at the extreme end of the frame make the problem better?
The extra weight DOES play a big difference in how the springs and shocks react. Anyone who rides motorcycles can relate. Jump on a bike with the suspension tuned for someone who's heavier than you, and that first expansion joint you hit will "bed bounce" you right off the seat. I've got my suspension dialed in tight for my weight at track specs, and it rides WAY worse than my tundra does!
Looking at the body panels or even the bed flexing won't tell you much as that's really based on how everythings attached. You might see your bed bouncing when you look in your rear view mirror, but it's possible your whole back end is bouncing along with it due to the suspension.
I'd like to see a road test over one of the courses they do for longevity testing where part of the road is bumpy and they have a smooth side for filming/etc. Drive beside the tundra and see how the body is moving. See if it's the rear suspension jumping or if the frame is flexing or if the bed is just trying to detach itself from the truck for no good reason.
I blame suspension because I can duplicate the problem on any vehicle with adjustable suspension if you set the compression/rebound damping, preload and sag up for a higher weight than expected, which I suspect the tundra is tuned for.
I'm sticking with my thought that the tundra's suspension is tuned for a much higher weight than empty to provide a better ride when it's got a full bed or a 10'800lb trailer behind it. And, just like if i get on a motorcycle tuned for someone who weighs 250lbs, i'm gonna get bounced around when it's empty.
Someone go get their hands on a lotus with fully adjustable suspension and dial it in for a 6600lb trucks weight and tell me how bad the "bed bounce" is, assuming your neck doesn't break under the strain of the first few bumps.
The reason the other manufacturers don't have as bad an issue is a) the closest in towing capacity is 1300lbs lower, and they may have engineered their trucks to cater to the mall ninjas and not the truck drivers who mainly use their trucks for hauling and towing. My brother and dad both have Seirras, I might see if we can do a tow / empty road bounce comparison.
I think that the larger Nitto 275/75 18 tires helped a bit. I've had them on for 6000 miles and I planned on going back the the stock 275/60 BFGs at some point just to use them up. I'll know if the bounce is still there. I don't travel concrete roads much but there is a stretch of I95 up here that was just paved. About one mile was not rolled correctly and the bounce is noticeable but it seems less so with the larger tires.
There is a good comparison of a 2009 F-150 beside a 2008 Tundra on YouTube showing bed shake on both trucks...the Tundra is worse. Search 2009 F-150 comparison.
I went back to the YouTube video and noticed that they compare a 2009 F-150 to both Tundra and Dodge but not GM. The bed shake is present in all three but it does seem to be worse in the Tundra. It is amazing just how much they made the bed shake on these trucks.
Every change I have made to reduce the bed bounce (see signature block) has helped, some more than others, so I would agree with those who say it's a combination of spring and shock rates.
__________________ 07 DC SR5 TRD 4x4 5.7 TRD exhaust, 46K miles, 17 mpg city after battery disconnect reset. Truxedo Lo-Pro with deck rails. Front Susp: Stock coilovers, 4" lift (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...6-4-inch-lift/), swapped extra spacers for Bilstein 5100s on lowest setting, wheel well height still 41.5." Rear Susp: ProComp ES3000 #326510 (2.25" taller than stock), 1.25" blocks plus PRG mini-pack (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...and-new-truck/) gives 2.25" total lift, parking brake cable bracket spacers, wheel well height 43." Front diff and rear ds drop; trailer hitch electrical harness tucked up above bumper. After 20K miles swapped 305/65/18 BFG AT for 285/75/18 Toyo AT, still on stock 18x8x60 offset TRD wheels, about 1/8" clearance to sway bar. Like the extra height but miss the width. Next time either 305/70/, 295/70, or 35x12.50/18. Added 5th 285/75/18 Toyo AT as spare. Bed Bounce: Stiffer E-tires are worse than stock P-metric; biggest improvement from PRG mini-pack, slight improvement from shocks. Still a stiff ride but tolerable now. Best things about this truck: 5.7 and transmission, interior size and comfort, very quiet at high speed. Worst things about this truck: bed bounce, no VSC in 4wd, mileage sucks above 70.
Well I filled up the Shurtrax with water this past weekend and positioned it close to the tailgate. It's really embarassing and pathetic trying to explain to my girlfriend and next door neighbor why I'm esentially putting a water bed in the back of my brand new truck.
Then my girlfriend and I went out to do some shopping and get dinner. I drove ~15 miles down I-575 and the bed bounce was improved significantly. So, I suppose that Willybar, even though it's $700 shipped, would make a big difference. I'm going to have my friend build me a 'Willybar' first for a lot less money and see what difference that makes. I'd also like to alter the rear suspension to be softer but I'm no expert so I'm not sure what needs to be done. Does anybody have any shock recommendations?
__________________
2005 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition V8 - sold
2008 Tundra 5.7 DC XSP w/20" JTI wheels
Sorry, incorrectly matched shocks and springs are the majority of the problem.
I'm not new to this... I have a 1993 Integra that I have torn apart and experimented with over the last 10 years and I know what good suspension setups do and what bad suspension setups do. I modify vehicles for performance, that's what I do.
Back in 2001, some genius decided to sell me Civic springs for my Integra (my coilovers were getting rebuilt, had no choice but to run a simple spring/shock setup) without telling me. I threw them on, went for a drive, hit a bump in the road and the car would not stop hopping in the front and I almost totaled the car. We're talking a few hundred pound difference between the Civic and the Integra but, the spring rates were so different that the stock Integra shocks didn't do anything with the over powering spring.
The Tundras have a very stiff rear spring to handle the weight that they can carry and the shocks are not matched to that stiffness. If aftermarket companies can develop rear shocks that eliminate the issue, that tells me that the shock was the problem.
You don't have to listen to me... but I do know that Rancho is not going to solve your problem. Sorry.
Just curious, if you say the issue is a majority of incorrectly matched shocks.. Why would the Rancho's not solve the problem? I agree that they don't because I have a pair but just for my own curiosity I was wondering why it is that they don't make any difference if the issue is mismatched shocks and spring rates.
The Rancho's have 9 settings. Even on the stiffest setting I still get bed bounce.. Same with the softest so I don't think the issue is shock related at all.
Adding weight to the truck does make a difference.. THe amount of weight seems to be around 2 to 300lbs. I wonder if you can have someone design a spring for the tundra and specifically request that it be exactly 2 to 300lbs less rated than the stock Tundra springs.. I wonder then if it would eliminate bed bounce..
Well I filled up the Shurtrax with water this past weekend and positioned it close to the tailgate. It's really embarassing and pathetic trying to explain to my girlfriend and next door neighbor why I'm esentially putting a water bed in the back of my brand new truck.
Then my girlfriend and I went out to do some shopping and get dinner. I drove ~15 miles down I-575 and the bed bounce was improved significantly. So, I suppose that Willybar, even though it's $700 shipped, would make a big difference. I'm going to have my friend build me a 'Willybar' first for a lot less money and see what difference that makes. I'd also like to alter the rear suspension to be softer but I'm no expert so I'm not sure what needs to be done. Does anybody have any shock recommendations?
I'm with ya man.. I bought a toneau cover to conseal my embarrassment of having to haul around an F;in waterbed just to get a tolerable ride out of my brand new Truck. Ugh.. This will likely be the last TOYOTA Product I ever buy..
Anyhow, if you get an opportunity to have someone provide you a softer spring.. See if you can get them to make one rated a few hundred lbs shy of a stock tundra spring.
As far as shocks.. I do like my Rancho 9000xls.. They won't solve the bed bounce on their own but with my Shurtrax and set to #6 they feel the best.
Just curious, if you say the issue is a majority of incorrectly matched shocks.. Why would the Rancho's not solve the problem? I agree that they don't because I have a pair but just for my own curiosity I was wondering why it is that they don't make any difference if the issue is mismatched shocks and spring rates.
The Rancho's have 9 settings. Even on the stiffest setting I still get bed bounce.. Same with the softest so I don't think the issue is shock related at all.
Adding weight to the truck does make a difference.. THe amount of weight seems to be around 2 to 300lbs. I wonder if you can have someone design a spring for the tundra and specifically request that it be exactly 2 to 300lbs less rated than the stock Tundra springs.. I wonder then if it would eliminate bed bounce..
Yes, exactly. Alcan Springs makes customized springs. Tell Tom that you want a softer ride similar to putting 300lbs in your bed that is with stock springs. If you have a mini-spring pak, tell him too so he can make precise calculations. He'll also ask for the model Tundra, RCSB, DCSB, Crewmax, etc.
My leaf springs were ordered from Alcan back in Dec. I sent them my old set of spring, so now they have a reference there.
I'm with ya man.. I bought a toneau cover to conseal my embarrassment of having to haul around an F;in waterbed just to get a tolerable ride out of my brand new Truck. Ugh.. This will likely be the last TOYOTA Product I ever buy..
Anyhow, if you get an opportunity to have someone provide you a softer spring.. See if you can get them to make one rated a few hundred lbs shy of a stock tundra spring.
As far as shocks.. I do like my Rancho 9000xls.. They won't solve the bed bounce on their own but with my Shurtrax and set to #6 they feel the best.
I'm right there with you. My last two vehicles were 4Runners and I loved them. I figured I'd be just as happy with the Tundra and that's why I stuck with Toyota. After this experience, I will never own another Toyota again.
And as much as I'd love to have custom springs made, I don't know that I'm willing to spend that much more money on this POS. I already spent $350 on the gooseneck hitch bracing hoping to fix the bed bounce (didn't work). Then I spent $225 on the TRD RSB and all it did was improve handling, and did nothing to improve ride quality. And then I spent another $110 to have a waterbed in the back of my new truck. So a total of $685 so far.
How much more am I going to have to spend to fix a flaw in Toyota's design?
__________________
2005 Toyota 4Runner Sport Edition V8 - sold
2008 Tundra 5.7 DC XSP w/20" JTI wheels
Yes, exactly. Alcan Springs makes customized springs. Tell Tom that you want a softer ride similar to putting 300lbs in your bed that is with stock springs. If you have a mini-spring pak, tell him too so he can make precise calculations. He'll also ask for the model Tundra, RCSB, DCSB, Crewmax, etc.
My leaf springs were ordered from Alcan back in Dec. I sent them my old set of spring, so now they have a reference there.
Art,
What sorta price range should I expect custom springs to cost?
I'm right there with you. My last two vehicles were 4Runners and I loved them. I figured I'd be just as happy with the Tundra and that's why I stuck with Toyota. After this experience, I will never own another Toyota again.
And as much as I'd love to have custom springs made, I don't know that I'm willing to spend that much more money on this POS. I already spent $350 on the gooseneck hitch bracing hoping to fix the bed bounce (didn't work). Then I spent $225 on the TRD RSB and all it did was improve handling, and did nothing to improve ride quality. And then I spent another $110 to have a waterbed in the back of my new truck. So a total of $685 so far.
How much more am I going to have to spend to fix a flaw in Toyota's design?
You guys crack me up. I"ve got a fleet of 1/2 ton and 3/4 pickups from Silverados to Superduties (no Dodges here). Pickup trucks are supposed to be pickup trucks, not SUVs or sedans. My Tundra rides rougher than our Sequoia, CRV and Tahoe. My Tundra rides smoother than our Ford Superduites and long bed 1/2 Ton Silverado W/Ts. Stock it rides on par with our Sierra 1500 Crew Cab that's been lowered for an old guy.
That being said I can really feel for you guys experiencing bed bounce.
We began a poll last year about who was buying the new Tundra. 30% never owned a truck before and 26% came from conventional domestic 1/2 ton pickups. I'm sure most of you have plenty of previous pickup truck experience but if you can even take up valuable bed space with extra weight then you probably have the luxury of choosing about any kind of vehicle you want.
I for one think the new Tundra could use some helper springs in the back to stiffen things up with a heavy load. My impression is the stock springs are too soft as it is. Initially Texas declared my Tundra a 3/4 ton for licensing purposes because it's weight capacity is greater than what their computer said a 1/2 should be. They've got that straightened out in the system now.
Declaring the Tundra the last Toyota you'll ever own seems a bit dramatic. Maybe it should be the last pickup you own, not the last Toyota? Those nice folks in Indiana, Alabama, California, Michigan and Texas do a good job making Toyotas as a rule. I'm not so certain about the folks in Monterrey, Mexico making Rams or Silao Guadaljara, Mexico making GMC Sierras. By the way, unlike the Tundra the Ram is categorized an import due to foreign parts content. And the "domestic" classification of ownership fell apart because until recently Chrysler was owned by the Germans.
When I take the wife to town I like to drive an SUV or Tundra equally and there is no tendency to leave the mean Tundra back at the ranch.
A full 11% of those in the poll came to the Tundra from a domestic 3/4 ton or greater capacity pickups. Many of them understand unloaded bed bounce but I wonder how many of them think the bed bounce is an issue (I'm sure there must be at least one). Anybody? Bueller?
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -- Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by jliltd; 10-29-2008 at 05:03 PM.
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Re: Possible Tundra Bed Bounce CURE FOUND
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