You're right, it is indeed your choice. We all have choices. If you would prefer to call a toll-free number and receive fast service (albeit not as skilled) from a conglomerate call center, then you're better off buying from a larger company anyways.
Quite frankly, the only thing "flame-worthy" in your post (IMO) is how quickly you've decided to pass judgement and form your patronage decisions based on disappointingly limited information. You've already formed and trumpeted your "unimpressed" opinion based on a PARTIAL part number you found through an internet search?
Yikes.
Personally, I could care less if you buy from PRG Products or some douche down the street. I don't own stock in Greg's company. I just enjoy passing on information/ modifications that have worked for me and vendors that actually use and install their products. Getting support on an install at 8pm on a Saturday - that's HUGE. A large part of my life is devoted to vehicles, so I may come across stuff that's worthy of sharing. These springs are by far the most cost-effective mod I've bought for this truck, and I've invested more than 50% of the truck's MSRP in aftermarket additions. You can choose to spend your money as you see fit with vendors you deem "trustworthy". I don't know anything about the Alcan springs, but I'm sure you'll be happy with them and the service they provide you. Best of luck!
Last edited by ThirdHorseman; 03-27-2008 at 11:26 PM.
These springs are by far the most cost-effective mod I've bought for this truck, and I've invested more than 50% of the truck's MSRP in aftermarket additions. You can choose to spend your money as you see fit with vendors you deem "trustworthy". I don't know anything about the Alcan springs, but I'm sure you'll be happy with them and the service they provide you. Best of luck!
X2 These springs are by far the BEST mod on my truck, they made more of a difference in my ride than my Sway-a-Way coilovers, and that's with STOCK rear shocks. The ride is only going to get better with the addition of SAW rear shocks.
BTW I hope when you get your Alcans they fit properly.
You're right, it is indeed your choice. We all have choices. If you would prefer to call a toll-free number and receive fast service (albeit not as skilled) from a conglomerate call center, then you're better off buying from a larger company anyways.
Quite frankly, the only thing "flame-worthy" in your post (IMO) is how quickly you've decided to pass judgement and form your patronage decisions based on disappointingly limited information. You've already formed and trumpeted your "unimpressed" opinion based on a PARTIAL part number you found through an internet search?
Yikes.
Personally, I could care less if you buy from PRG Products or some douche down the street. I don't own stock in Greg's company. I just enjoy passing on information/ modifications that have worked for me and vendors that actually use and install their products. Getting support on an install at 8pm on a Saturday - that's HUGE. A large part of my life is devoted to vehicles, so I may come across stuff that's worthy of sharing. These springs are by far the most cost-effective mod I've bought for this truck, and I've invested more than 50% of the truck's MSRP in aftermarket additions. You can choose to spend your money as you see fit with vendors you deem "trustworthy". I don't know anything about the Alcan springs, but I'm sure you'll be happy with them and the service they provide you. Best of luck!
I had to edit the post because I didn't say what I wanted to say.
There were also other things, it wasn't uninformed, it was not a worthless internet search, it was showing what I found in the off-road industry from other product makers, the website just shows what I am trying to express. I do not fly off half cocked, I do research and I always make an informed decision which I have done.
Whether or not you "own stock", I could care less, and I genuinly appreciate the passing of information, that is why we are hear, but I don't like to be told one thing to find out different elsewhere.
I also don't like to see one company bash another company in any way, shape or form. This is completely unimpressive.
And this isn't the most cost effective mod. You can get the same thing from a better product maker for a lesser price.
Alcan spring company via Alcan directly. They have been making the same 3 leaf pack in a 60mm material not a 2.25" SAE material with better alignment clips to avoid the squeek that you stated you did not like and left the bolts out and Alcan sells them for $150.00 per pair with U-bolts.
Ah, I understand now. Since Greg is a business owner himself, we should hold him to a higher level of impressive behavior. He shouldn't relay to customers important information about products to avoid, or companies with known deceptive practices because to do so would be tacky and unbecoming. He is a proprietor first, and a truck enthusiast second. Gotcha.
In your research to form your informed decision, I'm sure you called Greg back to ask him directly about the Deaver part number posted on their website. It seems like a very fair, logical question coming from a customer and one I plan to ask myself.
I had to edit the post because I didn't say what I wanted to say.
There were also other things, it wasn't uninformed, it was not a worthless internet search, it was showing what I found in the off-road industry from other product makers, the website just shows what I am trying to express. I do not fly off half cocked, I do research and I always make an informed decision which I have done.
Whether or not you "own stock", I could care less, and I genuinly appreciate the passing of information, that is why we are hear, but I don't like to be told one thing to find out different elsewhere.
I also don't like to see one company bash another company in any way, shape or form. This is completely unimpressive.
And this isn't the most cost effective mod. You can get the same thing from a better product maker for a lesser price.
Alcan spring company via Alcan directly. They have been making the same 3 leaf pack in a 60mm material not a 2.25" SAE material with better alignment clips to avoid the squeek that you stated you did not like and left the bolts out and Alcan sells them for $150.00 per pair with U-bolts.
Good info Imdone, Thanks for sharing!
__________________
2007 Tundra Crewmax SR5 5.7 4x4 Superwhite with Sunroof!
Ready Lift Leveling Kit!
Pro Comp Wheels (8128)!
305/65/18 BFG TA/KO's!
N-Fab Nerfbars!
Front Windows Tinted 20%!
Black Headlight Mod!
Black Grill Emblem!
Debaged!
I didn't say that there were deceptive business practices or products to avoid being discussed between he and I, I didn't say anything about what he told me, why do you insist on putting typed words in my posts?
He doesn't know me from adam, why would he tell me something unsavory about a company when he doesn't know me? You are telling me he is just a good samaritan and genuinely concerned about the publics wellfare???
It was information from Deaver. Didn't really need to confront or talk to Greg, if he tells me something that is incorrect and then discusses others in unsavory ways, why the hell would I care to talk to him again?
Like I said, I'm not hear to uncover the missing link or find out who shot JFK, I don't care. I am just relaying information, like you were, in providing my experience.
I didn't say that there were deceptive business practices or products to avoid being discussed between he and I, I didn't say anything about what he told me, why do you insist on putting typed words in my posts?
He doesn't know me from adam, why would he tell me something unsavory about a company when he doesn't know me? You are telling me he is just a good samaritan and genuinely concerned about the publics wellfare???
It was information from Deaver. Didn't really need to confront or talk to Greg, if he tells me something that is incorrect and then discusses others in unsavory ways, why the hell would I care to talk to him again?
Like I said, I'm not hear to uncover the missing link or find out who shot JFK, I don't care. I am just relaying information, like you were, in providing my experience.
I agree, it's certainly interesting! It's funny that each one of us feels that the other is doing the same thing I have no problem with you choosing not to do business with PRG Products. However, I do take issue with your methods.
Your posts indicated that your "information from Deaver" consists of comparing the spring part number of 1645F85 to the part number of F85 on their website. This is why I asked if you went any further before firmly deciding that you'd been deceived and broadcasting as such. Now, if you said you called and spoke to a Deaver rep that confirmed this springpack is simply a bolted-on model from a 2006 Tundra with no tweaking to PRG-provided specs...this thread would have not gone down this path.
I believe our disagreement stems from what we feel is acceptable behavior. You brand Greg as unresponsive and "tacky" after one phone call because he supposedly badmouths companies...yet you turn around and badmouth him (and yes, I consider the insinuation that he misled you in ANY way as "badmouthing) in an unsavory fashion based on one telephone conversation and a partial part number?
Maybe I'm a bit more thorough, but this is why I asked if you had spoken to him. If I have any questions about a part or information I've been given, I go straight to the source so in the event that I do want to share the experience with others, I can provide a 360 degree process flow.
In this case, I would call Deaver or Greg, and simply say, "What's up with this part number - is this a new design or what?" If at that point I'm still unsatisfied or feel that I'm hearing two different things from two different sources, at least I know that I gave the vendor a chance to respond, and can tell others as such. But again, this is a public message board and you're free to post your experiences based on whatever information you deem is sufficient.
We could argue all night about this, but it won't do either of us much good. Please post if you find any additional information regarding this, and I'll do the same I'll make a few calls tomorrow afternoon if I can and see if I can track down any more information.
Last edited by ThirdHorseman; 03-28-2008 at 12:26 AM.
I agree, it's certainly interesting! It's funny that each one of us feels that the other is doing the same thing I have no problem with you choosing not to do business with PRG Products. However, I do take issue with your methods.
Your posts indicated that your "information from Deaver" consists of comparing the spring part number of 1645F85 to the part number of F85 on their website. This is why I asked if you went any further before firmly deciding that you'd been deceived and broadcasting as such. Now, if you said you called and spoke to a Deaver rep that confirmed this springpack is simply a bolted-on model from a 2006 Tundra with no tweaking to PRG-provided specs...this thread would have not gone down this path.
I believe our disagreement stems from what we feel is acceptable behavior. You brand Greg as unresponsive and "tacky" after one phone call because he supposedly badmouths companies...yet you turn around and badmouth him (and yes, I consider the insinuation that he misled you in ANY way as "badmouthing) in an unsavory fashion based on one telephone conversation and a partial part number?
However, one major point here, I do not sell off-road/aftermarket products and have no affiliation with such sellers or manufactuers, I am a customer. He is not a customer in the same capacity as I, therefore, I do have a different set of standards. I don't see how this can be disagreed upon. He is held to a different set of standards as he is a seller and designer and installer of off-road/aftermarket products and as you stated has a mom'n'pop shop as such, therefore, he should not be stating things poorly about any other company.
If I were to badmouth companies that were in my business it would not bode well for me and would certainly come full circle which would make me look poorly to other companies, even those not spoken of, and to my customers. When a customer askes me about another company I will always compliment not critisize and if they say different I will explain I know of no such thing. This is the proper standard of ethics which I find his questionable in stating what he said to me.
I am not going to repeat it because I do not agree with it and I do not feel it needs to be said. This is a proper way to handle such information. Taken with a grain of salt, same as my post. If you don't like it then you don't like it, I'm okay with that but the point is he and I are not held to the same standard because I am a customer and he is a supplier.
As for being unresponsive, I also noted that he was busy and I being in a customer service/sales industry understand. I forgave this in my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdHorseman
Maybe I'm a bit more thorough, but this is why I asked if you had spoken to him. If I have any questions about a part or information I've been given, I go straight to the source so in the event that I do want to share the experience with others, I can provide a 360 degree process flow.
In this case, I would call Deaver or Greg, and simply say, "What's up with this part number - is this a new design or what?" If at that point I'm still unsatisfied or feel that I'm hearing two different things from two different sources, at least I know that I gave the vendor a chance to respond, and can tell others as such. But again, this is a public message board and you're free to post your experiences based on whatever information you deem is sufficient.
More thorough??? I did get the information, I will admit indirectly, because I again not being in the off-road/aftermarket industry, will not get the same treatment as someone that is, and received the correct info. How could I be any more thorough. What would calling the person that provided the incorrect information do for me? I don't really see how I could have been any more thorough...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdHorseman
We could argue all night about this, but it won't do either of us much good. Please post if you find any additional information regarding this, and I'll do the same I'll make a few calls tomorrow afternoon if I can and see if I can track down any more information.
At this point I could care less what Greg has to say about this or anything else that he has or plans or is in the process of designing, as far as I am concerned he is questionable and when it comes to spending what you and I both spend on aftermarket parts I need to be able to trust the person/company I am getting these products for. It sounds to me like you have spent a lot of money with this company and they have treated you right on your previous 3 Nissan trucks/SUVs and that is good that you have that confidence, I however, do not have this confidence.
I agree that you and I can bicker like little old ladies all night, but my point is that I am not happy with what I have found and heard from this source and will choose not to do business with him and am posting what I have found and to the best of my ability the evidence to support such statements.
I was not going to get an account until I became a paying advertiser, but I need to address a few statements here. I will become a paying advertiser first thing next week and will gladly pay for the last week or two that our company's name has been on here.
As for the springs, I work closely with Deaver Spring, I have for many years of racing and for the last 4 years they have built many springs specifically for our campany. As for the develpoment of the 07-08 Tundra springs, I really had no hand physically in the design other than the ride height I wanted and the resulting ride characteristics that I was looking for. I am not sure if they used some other pack or part there of. I am not familiar with other Toyota springs or mini-packs. I take the finished prototypes and test the results and request changes until I'm happy. That is the way the springs get developed. I dont sit there with a hammer slaving away over a buring fire pounding springs into curved shapes. Here is another example, I recently brought drawings of a current Frontier spring to Deaver, with the qualities I need to build a race-style pack. I will pick-up the preproduction springs in a week or so. I dont know if they all ready exsist, or if they are identicle to some other Toyota/Frontier pack, as long as they do what I want. We test them and if the results are good then we are ready to go into production.
As for talking smack about another company, I'm not sure what I said to you, I dont even remember talking to you or who you are, but if I offended you Im sorry. I have made plenty of enemies in this industry in the last few years (from retail to publications to racing) and Im sure I'll make a few more with enough time. I have also built many, many more alliances and have had plenty of customers/clients become great friends. My point is not to offend or disrespect but if I have a beef with a certain company or product, Ill probably let you know. If a product doesn't perform to expectations, I'll probably let you know (even if we sell it). If a company lies about the performance of certain products, or if it can be improved or you can get it elswhere at a better price (even if that means I lose a sale), I'll probably tell you. Our company has decided to focus on the customer, to offer parts that the end user can use in daily life, at a good price, and offer good service. We are not concerned with magazine articles, fancy showrooms, or building race cars. We focus on the customer and his/her needs.
Last edited by prerunnergreg; 03-28-2008 at 10:11 AM.
glad to see you here prerunnergreg. I will be calling in the AM to order a set of springs for my Tundra. I have faith that you are an honest business man. I have followed this thread since the beginning and am very interested in your product.
__________________
'07 SR5 DC 5.7 silver sky metalic
5% tint rear windows, 2 Flowmaster 40 series w/ dual tips out the back, Carriage Works polished grill overlay w/emblem, 3-piece bumper inserts (not CW), Airaid, Ground Force rear shocks, DJM 3" arms, belltech flip kit, 22" BOSS 329 w/ 305/45/22 General grabber UHP, G2 bakflip.
You've already made a few friends just in this thread that were happy with your level of service and even added coilovers and UCAs to their initial $179 order. I'm sure you'll have even more once those parts are installed...especially if they drive the SoCal freeways
Seems like people are always quicker to complain than to compliment, so the fact that this entire thread has only one "complaint" says a lot.
As I said in an earlier post, I first did business with Greg on my 05 Frontier. If everyone conducted themselves the way Greg and Jen do, no one would ever have anything to complain about. From my personal experience, along with their reputation in the industry, they really are that good.
Seeing all the positive comments in this thread about the perfomance of this pack made it easy for me to jump on board and give it a try, as I have exhausted all other options to get rid of the bed bounce. All of my improvements have helped, but from what others have said this will be the one that really does the trick.
Best of luck to all with this mini-pack and whatever other mods you do. We are fortunate to have someone of Greg's expertise and integrity with Nissan moving into the Toyota camp. All the reports on this mini-pack are exemplary. Since Toyota sells many more Tundras and Tacomas than Nissan sells Titans and Frontiers, I hope this venture proves profitable for Greg. I'm looking forward to adding more of his products in the future.
__________________ 07 DC SR5 TRD 4x4 5.7 TRD exhaust, 46K miles, 17 mpg city after battery disconnect reset. Truxedo Lo-Pro with deck rails. Front Susp: Stock coilovers, 4" lift (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...6-4-inch-lift/), swapped extra spacers for Bilstein 5100s on lowest setting, wheel well height still 41.5." Rear Susp: ProComp ES3000 #326510 (2.25" taller than stock), 1.25" blocks plus PRG mini-pack (http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forum...and-new-truck/) gives 2.25" total lift, parking brake cable bracket spacers, wheel well height 43." Front diff and rear ds drop; trailer hitch electrical harness tucked up above bumper. After 20K miles swapped 305/65/18 BFG AT for 285/75/18 Toyo AT, still on stock 18x8x60 offset TRD wheels, about 1/8" clearance to sway bar. Like the extra height but miss the width. Next time either 305/70/, 295/70, or 35x12.50/18. Added 5th 285/75/18 Toyo AT as spare. Bed Bounce: Stiffer E-tires are worse than stock P-metric; biggest improvement from PRG mini-pack, slight improvement from shocks. Still a stiff ride but tolerable now. Best things about this truck: 5.7 and transmission, interior size and comfort, very quiet at high speed. Worst things about this truck: bed bounce, no VSC in 4wd, mileage sucks above 70.
8 bucks difference in price isn't much to get worked up about. It's always good to do research on internet sales. Bottom line is if they help and your happy, it's all good. Let's keep the feedback coming from the guys that have installed them.
Guess I should have promoted my overload replacements a little bit more considering I had good reviews about them but I got so busy that I just didn't have the time. I'm just going to go over a few points made by people on the last page. First off the springs should be 60mm wide vs 2-1/4" wide and whoever says they're losing money by selling them for $190 needs to refigure their numbers because I know what it cost to build these. On another note Deaver does build their own custom springs and probably just gets their oem replacements from Triangle or has Triangle reproduce their design. Next, you need to realize this mod will effect your towing capacity because you're taking out your overload which is designed to stop the springs from bending farther down once it's engaged. The leaves which replace it will help but are not an equal as far as spring capacity is concerned. Obviously the ride will be enhanced because the springs are no longer prohibited from flexing once they hit a certain point unlike before. I designed these way back in July or August last year so I'm kind of surprised at the response of some new miracle cure which probably numerous spring shops have had out for quite some time because I'm sure I wasn't the first. Anyways, Deaver has a great reputation and I'm sure if they designed these for the Tundra then it's a good product but would be disappointed if they were designed for something else and being they're 2-1/4" wide that's probably the case.
Re: Rides Like a BRAND NEW Truck!
If you would prefer to call a toll-free number and receive fast service (albeit not as skilled) from a conglomerate call center, then you're better off buying from a larger company anyways. 
I have no problem with you choosing not to do business with PRG Products. However, I do take issue with your methods.
Please post if you find any additional information regarding this, and I'll do the same 
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