What's the likelihood that this alleged diesel will have a higher payload? Maybe all they need, from an engineering perspective, is heavier springs, upgraded rear wheel bearings, and better tires. . . The engine, transmission, rear axle and brakes already make the 1/2 ton Tundra a 3/4 ton contender. An extra 5-6 grand for a true 2500 series Diesel Toyota would have GM, Ford, and Dodge sh!tting bricks. I'd get one. . .
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Last edited by TundraBay; 05-29-2008 at 08:26 AM.
Reason: typo
What's the likelihood that this alleged diesel will have a higher payload? Maybe all they need, from an engineering perspective, is heavier springs, upgraded rear wheel bearings, and better tires. . . The engine, transmission, rear axle and brakes already make the 1/2 ton Tundra a 3/4 ton contender. An extra 5-6 grand for a true 2500 series Diesel Toyota would have GM, Ford, and Dodge sh!tting bricks. I'd get one. . .
Tell me something who's going to buy this beyond your construction workers/RV crowd ? The current Tundra exceeds a pretty good towing figure and with the current tread going on gas I see No Use period for this type truck ..Now Gm is providing a 2 stage hybrid system that my friend will gain notice in the future stake of full sized truck but hell I hate to see the towing figures on that
Now if Toyota can add the Lexus Ls 600 Hybrid v8 and put that under it's hood this would gain a lot of attention.
Last edited by Tundrav8yamaha; 05-29-2008 at 09:15 AM.
hybrids are not going to help you at 70mph in a 5500-6000lb truck. that is why highway milage is not much improved if at all in truck hybrids. the cheby has better aerodynamics, lower profile tires, etc to get 1mpg better highway. hybrids store energy from stopping. good for stop and go but near useless on the highway at speed in a heavy vehicle. towing - forget any real improvements - the gas engine will be running the whole time. plus how long do they last and how much energy does it take to make a hybrid - how green would a truck hybrid really be???
As far as i know all the diesels offered are in Heavy Duty trucks and are not required to have a estimated mpg figure. The powerstroke doesn't have a mpg figure and my lmm duramax (traded for the tundra) sure as hell didn't come with a mpg estimation. what you get for mpg is what you get in a HD diesel. now that being said, i got 18-21 highway and 16 city in the lmm. that was driving it like every light was a drag race. if you don't haul descent sized loads daily than stick to the spark ignition (gasser). i get 7-9 mpg hauling my enclosed snowmobile trailer in the winter. a diesel runs the same loaded or not so it should get at least 13 mpg under load.
Yes you are right now diesel are only offered in 3/4 ton trucks and larger , and thus do not have a mpg rating . The reason all the 1/2 ton truck manufacturares are coming out with smaller diesel for there 1/2 tons is so they can lower there average MPG for the new CAFE rules that include 1/2 tons into the mix . But with a 5-6000 price preimum who is going to buy them with diesel selling for more at the pumps as well .
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Double cab long box 4x4 5.7 L slate grey . would have bought a limited if available with long box
What's the likelihood that this alleged diesel will have a higher payload? Maybe all they need, from an engineering perspective, is heavier springs, upgraded rear wheel bearings, and better tires. . . The engine, transmission, rear axle and brakes already make the 1/2 ton Tundra a 3/4 ton contender. An extra 5-6 grand for a true 2500 series Diesel Toyota would have GM, Ford, and Dodge sh!tting bricks. I'd get one. . .
If it's rated as a 3/4 ton instead of a gvw of 7000 or 7200 and more like 8500 to 9000 gvw I would buy one for 5-6000 more . But i doubt the truck with the 4.5 L diesel will be rated for any more then the current tundra so 5-6000 just to get a diesel is not worth it .
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Double cab long box 4x4 5.7 L slate grey . would have bought a limited if available with long box
I have driven this engine in the new Landcruiser (European version) which has about the same weight. No way I would prefer this engine over my 5.7, not by performance and not by engine characteristics. Also the estimated 22 mpg is too optimistic for the Landcruiser, which is aerodynamically better than the Tundra.
Great. That's all we need on these forums, are diesel guys. They like to pound their chests, and make sure everyone knows they're driving the biggest, baddest, loudest truck.
Should I ever have the need to tow more than 8k, then I'll look into a diesel. ...and hopefully, I won't turn into an arrogant diesel guy.
Yes you are right now diesel are only offered in 3/4 ton trucks and larger , and thus do not have a mpg rating . The reason all the 1/2 ton truck manufacturares are coming out with smaller diesel for there 1/2 tons is so they can lower there average MPG for the new CAFE rules that include 1/2 tons into the mix . But with a 5-6000 price preimum who is going to buy them with diesel selling for more at the pumps as well .
Good call - that's the main motivation for offering a diesel in a half ton. It's not so much power or performance. Diesel is probably the best existing technology available to increase truck fuel economy.
As far as cost goes, here's the lay of the land with other diesels:
Dodge Ram $6100 for the Cummins, $400 for the diesel's automatic transmission = $6500 total.
GMC 2500HD $7,195 for the Duramax, $1,200 for the diesel automatic = $8400 total.
Ford F250 $6,895 for the Powerstroke, $1,490 for the diesel automatic = $8,385 total.
The diesel engine options from the Big 3 average about $7000 (sticker).
The Tundra doesn't require a special transmission (the current 6 speed used with the 5.7 also works with the 4.5 diesel), so that saves about $1000.
Considering that Toyota has an incentive to sell the diesel engine more than the gas (in order to raise their fleet fuel economy rating), perhaps they discount the diesel a little...say $4000 on the sticker? Perhaps economies of scale kick in (because the same engine is being used in three different vehicles) and drop the price a little more...could we see $3,000 on the sticker? At that price, the incentive to buy a diesel (from a fuel cost basis) is pretty significant.
Until we see the cost on the 09 LandCruiser diesel being sold in Canada, it will be hard to make an intelligent guess.
Shout out to OTR - I love the break down - that's how I roll! Seriously, I'm a numbers guy. However, I have to say the math doesn't really work out for most of the current 3/4 and 1 ton diesel buyers. The fuel economy isn't too good on the big diesels (most get 16-18), and maintaining those beasts is pricey ($120 oil changes aren't uncommon). Still, Ford, Chevy, and Dodge sell the hell out of them.
Someone here said you need a 6-figure income to drive a new diesel, and I think that's sort of true. Big diesel trucks (especially with lots of features) are definitely status symbols. I think Toyota is hoping they can pull some of those "status" buyers into a half ton.
That Landcruiser is all wheel drive which doesn't help the 22.6 mpg figure so I'd like to think that the 4.5 in the Tundra mated to a possible 6 speed manual transmission could do a little better. However, changes to meet U.S. emissions may cancel any increased fuel efficiency. I may consider a diesel tundra just for a manual transmission if it is offfered as reported.
Great. That's all we need on these forums, are diesel guys. They like to pound their chests, and make sure everyone knows they're driving the biggest, baddest, loudest truck.
Should I ever have the need to tow more than 8k, then I'll look into a diesel. ...and hopefully, I won't turn into an arrogant diesel guy.
LOL Any time I go to rv.net to talk about towing a TT and I bring up the new tundra every diesel guy has to pump up his chest to make the mighty diesel truck sound like it can move mountains and get 45 mpg while doing it .
or all the gay saying that they have like I would rather be cummin then strokin . or dodge the father and ram the daughter This one I saw on the back widow a new dodge the other day in large chrome letters and the guy driving had to close to 60 .
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Double cab long box 4x4 5.7 L slate grey . would have bought a limited if available with long box
Like I said in my earlier post: There WILL be people for whom this truck is the perfect solution to their vehicle requirements, but that number will be exceedingly small. It is my guess that those small numbers will not make it worth it to produce this truck.
Now put in an even smaller Diesel that's about equivalent to the 5.7 without a huge upcharge and even better gas mileage - you might have a case.
I believe with that the diesel has a very viable niche in the market place. Other than the increase up front out of pocket expense for the option the diesel will cost less to operate as the 5.7.
For example:
Gas engine-
Fuel is now average of $3.93 per gallon at 16mpg and 26 gallon fuel tank =
Cost to fill up=$102.18
Range=416 miles Average cost per mile=24.5 Cents
Diesel engine-
Fuel is now average of $4.72 per gallon at 22mpg (est.) and 26 gallon fuel tank =
Cost to fill up=$122.72
Range= 572 miles Average cost per mile=21.45 Cents
The diesel cost 3 cents per mile to operate and after 167,000 miles you will make up the difference in the $5,000 cost of the diesel engine
Don't forget the added premium you'd get on trade! An '04 Chevy 2500HD gets a $4,800 bump on the trade when it has a Duramax. This will help you break even much faster...
I agree that they are way late in bringing a diesel to the market. I don't really understand why they have to start with a tiny 4.5L when they could just start out with a 6 or 7L and put all the other diesels out of business. The 4.5 diesel would not put down much better numbers than the 5.7 except for torque which it won't beat by a lot. I could justify maybe $6-8k more for a 7L diesel option but for a 4.5L...sounds silly to me.
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Re: 4.5L Diesel on 2010 Tundra
..Now Gm is providing a 2 stage hybrid system that my friend will gain notice in the future stake of full sized truck but hell I hate to see the towing figures on that 
if you don't haul descent sized loads daily than stick to the spark ignition (gasser). i get 7-9 mpg hauling my enclosed snowmobile trailer in the winter. a diesel runs the same loaded or not so it should get at least 13 mpg under load.
Seriously, I'm a numbers guy. However, I have to say the math doesn't really work out for most of the current 3/4 and 1 ton diesel buyers. The fuel economy isn't too good on the big diesels (most get 16-18), and maintaining those beasts is pricey ($120 oil changes aren't uncommon). Still, Ford, Chevy, and Dodge sell the hell out of them.
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