Tundra as Tow-Mobile: 1,200 miles, 12,000 lbs, 10 MPG

[TundraBay]

Just finished the longest towing trip so far with the Tundra. Thunder Bay to Oshkosh EAA Air Show and back.
I have a 34 ft 5th wheel which is about 10,000 lbs empty and loaded up is 12 K (best guess, no where to weigh that I could find). Also, fifth wheel hitch, generator, gas, tools, etc in the truck box so total weight should be there.
I know the springs are a little light on this truck, so before the trip I put in a set of Firestone Air bags. At 50 PSI the truck rode level.
I've already got a set of E rated tires so I knew that they would handle the load.
The Prodigy electric brake controller is an easy setup and stopped the rig nicely when someone rear-ended somebody else in Wausau, central Wisconsin, just ahead of me because the doofus ahead suddenly developed a need for a burger.
I set the cruise on 60. This truck drives very nicely and I had to be careful that I didn't forget the damn trailer was behind me! I had the Tow/Haul button pressed, even though I'm not sure what difference it makes. It had to downshift to 4th and sometimes 3rd on steeper inclines, but never revved even to 5,000 RPM. The transmission temperature gauge always stayed rock steady in the middle, as did the engine temp, although the oil pressure went up along with the Tach.

Passing transport trucks on a I could feel a very slight sideways push on the back of the truck, but never enough to budge me in the lane. Some concrete highways in southern Wisconsin with expansion joints did make the truck feel like it was a hobby horse -- I hope that's the closest I ever get to "bed bounce!"

Total trip: 1,187 miles.
Fuel consumed 117 gallons! Mostly 91 octane, and I left the one filling station where E10 was the only option, as I've experienced the reduction in mileage with ethanol before.
Great trip, and I'm very happy with this truck as a towing beast. Much nicer to drive than my 3/4 ton V-10 Dog which I am happy to have sold!

[cwit]

I want your truck I tow 5000 lbs less with the same milage. I set my cruise at 60 same as you, I also use tow haul and don't see a differance with it or without. I only need 20 lbs in my airbags.

[TundraBay]

Well I think the mileage is more of a function of the frontal area of the trailer and less the weight -- once you're up to speed, it takes very little extra input to maintain that speed. That's one reason why keeping it at 60 MPH is so critical. The front of my trailer is HUGE (Keystone Cougar) (sorry, my camera battery died so I can't post pics 'cause I know the importance of pics)
I tried towing a different (smaller) trailer with regular 87 octane gas and my mileage was about 8.2 on the computer read-out. So for this trip I tried Premium and I think that when hauling heavy loads that makes a difference.
Regular gas was about $3.84, Premium averaged $4.00 a gallon for a difference of 16/384=4%, and mileage was better by 18% so the cost difference was clearly worth it.

Based on the amount of air in my bags I think the weight is about 1,600 to 1,800 lbs (I only pressurized to level the truck, not to bring it up to the (rear end high) stock height).

I read that the tow haul changes the shift points, holds a gear a little longer, and downshifts a bit sooner. I figure towing this much weight, the transmission needs all the help it can get.

[sr5mike]

Exceeding the max towing cap. by 25% is irresponible. If someone was exceeding there cap. by that much and I was injurded in a accident I would be pushing for jail time. You are leaving yourself open for civil and legal problems that will follow you for life. That falls into the catergory of gross negalict. People get the right tool for the job. How would you feel if a loved one was killed by someone that was driving a rig that was overloaded. Don't even start to tell me you would say it is no big deal things happen. I will get off of my soap box.

[TundraBay]

Originally Posted by sr5mike

Exceeding the max towing cap. by 25% is irresponible. If someone was exceeding there cap. by that much and I was injurded in a accident I would be pushing for jail time. You are leaving yourself open for civil and legal problems that will follow you for life. That falls into the catergory of gross negalict. People get the right tool for the job. How would you feel if a loved one was killed by someone that was driving a rig that was overloaded. Don't even start to tell me you would say it is no big deal things happen. I will get off of my soap box.

I appreciate and respect your opinion. However, I find it humorous that driving a 5,000 lb pickup at 110 miles an hour and going on about it on this forum doesn't even get a raised eyebrow, yet a sh!tfest results from modifying this truck so that it can safely tow 12,000 lbs (that's 11% over the towing cap. of 10,800 BTW).

It would be a big deal, things do happen, but this truck is way more stable than the 3/4 ton "right tool for the job" that I got rid of. Just because something is "within capacity" doesn't mean it is any safer. The turkey in the 2500 GMC with a travel trailer going 75 MPH down Hwy 53 in Northern Wisconsin, swaying back and forth out of the passing lane may well be within capacity but certainly is a greater menace to the roads than the towing rig I have.

I've posted in another thread payload is a function of the weakest link in the chain. Look at the tires. Once those are upgraded, look at the suspension. Determine balance so that you're not unstable. Finally, make sure you can stop the rig safely. The bullsh!t and fearmongering about the axle breaking or wheel bearing popping out or what have you is exactly that. Just what is it that makes a 3/4 ton vehicle inherently safer? The bottom line is the nut behind the steering wheel makes the biggest difference, and I can assure you that taking engineering tolerances into consideration, exceeding the rated payload of the stock truck by 11%, after the suspension and tire modifications I noted, is no big deal.

You can have the soapbox back

[DocWard]

Oshkosh? I'm jealous. I hope to make it there one day for the show. How was it?

[sr5mike]

There is more to it than tires and airbags. You also have to take into consideration frame strength and weight distribution. Also I have been puling trailers and fifth wheels for year your claim of 1200 lbs is not close. The fiver weight given on the sticker does not include water, batteries , propane gear. Now you have added a generator, tools, fifth wheel hitch. Just think of others on the road and their families. Your argument that another guy is swaying in a 2500 GMC I don't see where that comes into play. I tow a 36ft fiver with a F350 total weight is 14000lbs and that is close to max payload. Be smart and stay with in the specs.

[banshee4785]

To each his own bud.

[07DCwhiteSR5]

i figured the weight police would step in. anyway, glad its working for you, yes its a risk going over the towing capacity but thats on you. its not like people havent been doing it for decades anyway. good luck and enjoy the truck!

[TundraBay]

Originally Posted by DocWard

Oshkosh? I'm jealous. I hope to make it there one day for the show. How was it?

The airshow was awesome. I don't even know where to start. The F22 raptors, the P-38 lightnings (two were there) the twenty some P-51 Mustangs, the list goes on and on. I'm personally interested in bush planes, and was impressed by the Husky, the Tundra, of course the Piper Cup (I'd love a supercub on floats but I'm not there yet, financially). The Glastar Sportsmen is also a true performer even as a home built.

Watching some of the performances just blew me away. There was one guy who flew up to 5,000 feet and turned off his engine. The entire aerobatic performance consisted of his non-powered descent and finished with a dead-stick landing with a stop directly in front of the crowd and a stop at the outstretched hand of the day's show marshall.

I'll be back next year, camping in the huge campground -- just look for the red Tundra with a big a$$ trailer.

Originally Posted by sr5mike

There is more to it than tires and airbags. You also have to take into consideration frame strength and weight distribution. Also I have been puling trailers and fifth wheels for year your claim of 1200 lbs is not close. The fiver weight given on the sticker does not include water, batteries , propane gear. Now you have added a generator, tools, fifth wheel hitch. Just think of others on the road and their families. Your argument that another guy is swaying in a 2500 GMC I don't see where that comes into play. I tow a 36ft fiver with a F350 total weight is 14000lbs and that is close to max payload. Be smart and stay with in the specs.

I did not claim 1200 lbs. My claim of 12,000 lbs is based on known empty weight (I weighed it when new, it was 9,500 lbs, I added up the weights of propane, extra battery, extra gear, etc), the generator and fuel is in the bed of the truck, as is the hitch of course.

As you probably know, the fifth wheel hitch is bolted directly to the frame, through the bed, and it actually strengthens the frame. The center of balance slightly ahead of the rear axle distributes the weight front to back more effectively than a weight distributing hitch, as it doesn't need to torque the frame back to front as a WD hitch does.

My previous truck (as stated) was a 2500 Dodge with a stated GCVW of 19,000 lbs and it was not nearly as well controlled on the road as this Tundra is. Over-engineering may have something to do with that. I also towed this trailer once with a Ford F-150 heavy duty, and let's just say I wasn't impressed at all.

I'm aware I'm over payload, towing capacity, AND GCVW. I calculate I'm about 10% above (not 25% as your initial posting suggested) and I believe that the frame can take it, I know that the tires and suspension can take it, obviously the drive train is capable and stopping wasn't even an issue.

I'm aware of other families on the road -- and I strongly believe I'm safer towing this thing with my Tundra -- even over stated cap. -- than I was towing with the 3/4 ton Dodge well within capacity or the Ford at cap.

Just as an aside, a finding of negligence, in a legal proceeding, requires firstly a duty of care; it requires determining how much care a reasonable person should take in a specific situation. A simple determination of being over the vehicle's stated capacity would still need to take into account the modifications a person has made to change the effective capacity; so failure to monitor tire pressures, drive appropriate to conditions, determine whether a specific maneuver is safe (passing, parking, etc.) will have a greater role in determining fault than simply the weight alone.

I don't take the safety of others lightly, and I'm not advocating any get in a truck, load 'er up and go like hell. However, it is clear that with some forethought, planning, and a modicum of effort, it is possible safely to exceed the stated specifications of this truck. Not by 25% perhaps, although you'll read other threads where people went double and more hauling and towing -- I guess we all have our limits. As a general rule, staying within the stated specifications increases your level of safety, but not if you have an improperly loaded trailer, you're going too fast, the tire pressures aren't right, the brakes are improperly setup or maintained.

I'm happy with my towing setup. But each of us has our own comfort level, and if you're happy with your F-350, that's great.

Just one more thing. I got 10 MPG towing this load: that was what my V-10 Dog got when empty. When I hauled the 5th wheel with that truck I got 6 MPG. (The Ford got 8).

[low c1500]

Come on Guys!

Flaming TundraBay isn't nessasary. I have seen Taccoma's pulling Travel Trailers that weigh at least 7000lbs. There are alot of people using Jeep Liberty's to pull 6000 lbs+. To me thats scary. This Tundra is fine to pull 12,000lbs with good trailer brakes. I pull a 5000lb trailer, and thats enough for me.

TundraBay,

I think your right about 91 fuel for towing, it allows more low rpm grunt, and resists detonation when hot out. I persoanlly don't like tow/haul mode when towing, it seems to burn more fuel and rev alot.

[cwit]

I think sr5mike wants to have your mileage. I will try a higher octane Gas in my Tundra. I would like to tow your camper to see how it goes. In 2 years I will upgrade to a double slide Around 9500 wet.

[sr5mike]

I get 12+ towing a 14000 lbs fiver. when I have my tundra 4.7 i got 8 towing a 4800lbs 20ft TT.

[TundraBay]

My trailer is a single slide out, but it's a big slide.

.


These are the published specs:
Weight...................8105
Carrying Capacity....3425
Hitch ......................1370
Length.................33' 10"
Width.....................8'
Height..................11' 10"
Fresh Water 45 gal.
Waste Water 30 gal.
Gray Water 60 gal.
LPG 60
Tire Size 225/75R15D
Rim Size 15 X 6

The hardest thing about the trip was keeping it at 60. That took willpower, 'cause the few times I needed to, I got to 75 without effort. The engine just wants to pull. I'm thinking that if I went 75 MPH the whole way my MPG would have been more like 7-8 Probably better not to know. There was one time, coming back, there's no gas stations once you get a bit west of Wasau to Chippewa Falls and it was 11 PM and my low fuel light had been on for a while and I hit 240 . . . 245. . . 250 miles since the last fill-up and I have this mental image of myself refueling next the the highway at night out of jerry cans but then the saviour! gas station where I put in 25.2 gallons. Fortunately the computer is accurate: it read 10.0 MPG and I had just gone 253 miles! Why isn't there a bigger gas tank on this, I'd like to know.

[sr5mike]

Thats a nice set up.