The NCDS (National Center for Dispute Settlement) arbitrator awarded me a replacement of my O7 4WD CM limited because of my faulty front differential. I'd like to make you all aware of my experience in case you might be dealing with the same front differential problem, or if you might have to go through this process for any other problem.
Some of you might be familiar with the problem brought up by Seadragon and others - the cyclical, growling noise from the front diff that appears between 10 -30 mph upon returning to 2WD after using 4WD (search humming, "wu wu" and/or front differential). I'll leave it to you to read and distill the various experiences, but what "my" Toyota Field Specialist says is that a collar in the front differential is not sliding back into place once disengaging 4WD. The creates the noise, vibration that can be felt through the steering column, and can wear front differential parts, especially the front drive shaft. The collar can slip into place sporadically or if one switches back and forth between 2 and 4WD, which has been people's experience.
Toyota seems to have acknowledged the design flaw of the first production run, has a new front differential design for 2008 apparently and has issued a TSB to replace the affected 07 AND 08 front differential. It's interesting that Consumer Reports differentiated between the 2 and 4WD versions of this truck when it was being released....
I'll detail my service experience to illustrate Toyota's Dispute Settlement Program (The process was in my owners manual packet - I gather it varies state to state, but I had to send a form letter and a copy of my service reciepts and any other documentation to the NCDS):
6131mi - Replaced front differential fluid (3 days in shop)
9800mi - Replaced front differential (4 days in shop)
10690mi - No repairs done - I "was imagining the noise" (1 day)
15508mi - Replaced drivers side front wheel bearing (3 days)
I then initiated contact with the Toyota Customer Experience Center notiying them that "I expect them to replace the vehicle pursuant to 6.07(c) of the Texas Motor Vehicle Commission Code". In this time, we played phone tag between me, them and my local service manager (their policy is to not leave nor take messages). It was the biggest farce; 2 weeks would pass at a time to communicate a sentence. I live 1/2mi from my dealer/service bay and had to talk to them through ?California? I kept a dated hand written log of our phone conversations which the NCDS arbitrator took particular interest in.
20631mi - Replaced front differential - TSB 0121-08 (10 days)
Since then, the original noise and vibration has gone, but I get an incredible crunching and shuddering from the front within 10 yards of using 4LO ( straight line in the dirt, of course). It seems like some kind of gear mismatch...???
28,500mi - NCDS hearing in local service manager's office between me, arbitrator and Toyota Motor Sales rep & Toyota Field Technical Specialist (both on speakerphone)
29,000mi - Replacement awarded - mileage charge which will probably come to $5-6K
I'm satisfied with the outcome, although I do believe if I had made a spreadsheet (like I did after the hearing) that clearly illustrated dates, mileage and nature of service, how long the truck was out of my hands, etc, and made a demand that I have the vehicle replaced and only have to pay for the first 6131mi, I might have had a more favorable award....
It might be the lack of time/tenacity that I did not find much info on the replacement process - maybe the lack of experience with this process on this board - who knows?
I would sure like to hear your thoughts, especially on what I should expect from here (Toyota Motor Sales, USA is supposed to contact me) and how I should handle it. Do I have the opportunity to adjust the mileage cost? Can I push for an 09, or settle for an 08? What do I do about my aftermarket items - can I make Toyota buy them?
Re: Won Lemon Law arbitration - front differential
More than likely it will be an 08, considering all the rebates out now.
I'll bet they'll want to transfer all the aftermarket stuff over to the new truck. All that is possible that is.
Sorry you've had some bad luck here. Hopefully mine turns out okay, as it was one of the first on the lot. I've already had the motor replaced because of the camshaft issue.
It blows me away that TMC didn't take care of you to your satisfaction. I know i'm satisfied with the way they handled my situation.
Let us know how it goes.
Oh, another thing. Dump that factory front diff oil out (all 3 diffs.)at 5k-10k miles, and replace with some hi quality synthetic stuff. I'm glad i did mine when i did, it looked pretty rough.
Re: Won Lemon Law arbitration - front differential
Wow, Tiburon. Glad to hear you're getting this settled finally, and a new truck to boot!
As you know, I had my front diff replaced twice. The second replacement was with the revised version and so far it has been fine. That was 3 months ago. Time will tell I suppose.
Just make sure that if they give you an '08 that it already has the revised front diff. Otherwise you'll be starting all over again potentially having to get it replaced. The revised one hit the factory sometime in June '08 from what I understand.
Let us know how things go from here and when you get your new truck!
Re: Won Lemon Law arbitration - front differential
Thanks Seadragon - you're right, its critical to get a July and later build date. I don't think I would have pursued the repair if you hadn't posted your experience. With the dealer's unfamiliarity with the condition, I might have tried to just live with the noise/vibration. I hope those in the same boat don't do that.
I filed arbritration on my truck and lost. I've had them replace 3 rack and pinons, power steering pump, CD player, airbag control module, rear differential, speed sensor, driveshaft, rear end seal,and right now its at the dealership because of the traction control. When i get off the freeway on the u turn shape off ramps i have to go 10mph of the truck shakes really bad and all sorts of lights go off.
When i had my teleconference it seemed it went well. When i got the decision and my statement in the mail it was totally false. They reworded everything i said. So now i filed lemon law and got a lawyer working on it. I bought the truck new in July 07 and didnt have any problems until April 08 and its gone down hill since that. I am very unhappy with toyota and how i have been treated.
Its sitting at the dealership right now and the service manager said he has to have a Toyota tech come look at my truck. The reason Toyota denied my request was because i havent given them the chance to inspect my truck?????? Im glad Toyota did some thing for you. I have had contact with Toyota Corp since June.
Oh and i only had my lift on truck until July cause Toyota told me to take it off.
wow you guys, all of this is insane!
My 08 with 19000kms was just diagnosed with the same thing, front diff shot. I was told Id have to wait until Jan for a new front diff, not impressed. Only having a brand new vehicle for 4.5 months and having something this big go wrong with it already isnt impressive. I bought Toyota expecting top notch, Im thinking I should have ordered my GM like origanally planned. If I have any more problems with it, itll be traded in ASAP!
ALLOT OF PEOPLE FLAMED CONSUMER REPORTS for giving 4x4 TUNDRA lower marks then 2 wheel drive, maybe they were on to something?
I think you're right. Looking back at it, when CR did their surveys, Toyota had not yet addressed the issue with a TSB. In fact, I don't think Toyota knew what was wrong with the diffs at that point. I know if I had received a survey about a year ago, I would have made note of the vibration/noise coming from the front end. Maybe there were a lot of people that mentioned this, hence the bad rating for the 4WD system.
Anybody know who makes the front end on our trucks?
I thought i read somewhere it was Dana. Anyone know for sure?
If it is Dana, do the 1st generation tundras have them as well?
I know the rear ends are Hino.
My dad's, brother's, or my tundra have not been plagued with the front diff issue. Knock on wood.
But we have all replaced the oem fluid's with Amsoil 75w90 synthetic gear lube in all 3 diffs.
For everyone's info: Front diff fluid was horrible when replaced, and so was the rear in all trucks. All done at 15k miles or so. I recomend everyone do the same & get rid of that break in stuff.
One can't argue that changing the diff fluid is bad practice, but I hope you're not suggesting that replacing it will mitigate the front diff issue.
This issue is a design problem, recognized by the maufacturer who has redesigned the differential, and issued a TSB to replace affected diffs, not repair them. Every vehicle with that front differential (pre 6/08) has the potential to fail, whether early or after the warranty period expires. I hope it ends up being a relatively rare occurrence.
One can't argue that changing the diff fluid is bad practice, but I hope you're not suggesting that replacing it will mitigate the front diff issue.
This issue is a design problem, recognized by the maufacturer who has redesigned the differential, and issued a TSB to replace affected diffs, not repair them. Every vehicle with that front differential (pre 6/08) has the potential to fail, whether early or after the warranty period expires. I hope it ends up being a relatively rare occurrence.
Not necessarily. I'm simply stating our experiences, that's it. Me and my bro's trucks are one of the first few to arrive at our dealership back in March 07. My dad got his pre 6/08 so take it for what it's worth. But my bro has yet to have the camshaft issue. Go figure.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. But; we work our trucks pretty hard during the summer months towing between 8-10k lbs. So that's why we choose to play on the safe side, and maintain well.
But if it was in fact a design issue, then i can beleive that; with my camshaft problem and other stuff i've read about here.
Mine was actually made in early june in Indiana, I have about 17k on it atm, and nothing yet but i do not use the 4x4 at all. Just pop it into it just to say i used it?
I Just started hearing that cycling noise as yall described as a " wu wu" sound. I have an 07
4x4 and I just havent had time to take it in. Im going to school and the nearest dealership is 40 min away and I dont have another way to move around. If this is what they call a recall the should I be given a loner to move around in while the truck is being fixed?
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Has:
07 black limited 4X4
Black head light mod
AFE CAI
JBA tubing with a Magnaflow muffler
CB radio
2.5 Toy Tec
N-Fab steps
Doug's long tube Headers
Won Arbitration - front differential
Linear Mode
