Umm whats up With Insideline on Tundra?? uh-oh?

[Geordybass]

5. Death to the Tundra
Some of The Mechanic's best friends drive Toyota Tundras. And Mrs. The Mechanic has frequently been seen behind the wheel of the Tundra-based Sequoia SUV. But forget it. The Tundra is doomed.
During 2009 the Tundra sold at about one-fifth the rate that Ford sells F-150s. In fact, Toyota isn't going to move more than about 75,000 of them during 2009, though it had predicted volumes somewhere around 200,000 when it opened that nice, expensive plant to build the truck in San Antonio. Considering that the big, bad second-generation Tundra has been a turd for Toyota, it's likely there won't be a third-generation Tundra.
Toyota is already moving the compact Tacoma into the San Antonio plant. It ought to just add a V8 option to that truck.
Look for: Toyota will announce the Tundra's pending death sometime around April.

The Mechanic's Fearless Forecast for 2010

Idk if I should believe what they say, but it's hard not to pass buy it....

What do you guys think about that comment?

[Mr. Creosote]

When I stage against an F-150 at the dragstrip, the forecast is hardly fearless.

[Gutz]

When I stage against an F-150 at the dragstrip, the forecast is hardly fearless.

You and me both brotha!

Screw what ANYONE thinks/writes on the internet, is my motto!!!!

[Mr. Creosote]

My supercharged brother.

Going against an F-150 is a good time to experiment with different launch techniques. Pop the 255/70 street tires back on. Leave off the ALSD. Screw up in the worst possible way and it doesn't matter at all. They can barely break into the 15s. Acceleration of the latest F-150 is the same as carbureted half tons from the '80s. That, gentlemen, is beyond embarrassing.

[PoPo]

The guy's probably right about some of that, but anyone who pays attention to any current events has a decent chance at being right at many of these. Anyhow, here's the comments I posted on that article, feel free to tear them apart:

10. Hatchbacks are the way of the future --- just watch the movies!

9. The Volt will catch on in about 5 years when the technology catches up with (or brings down) the cost. But, by then, there will be other competition for the Volt, so it won't be that significant anyhow.

8. Bob Lutz.... who cares.

7. See #9. Oh, and I'll take $10 billion from Uncle Sam too.... give me a shot to build it.

6. THE CAMARO's IN TROUBLE!!! Especially when the Mustang's new engine is released! Why do you think the Camaro disappeared for 7 years in the first place??? Think about it...

5. Toyota gave only a modest sales goal of 200k per year. In this economy, to hit half that isn't bad. Besides, it's a great truck with Toyota's reputation for quality to back it up... it'll survive, if only in lower production numbers similar to the Gen-1 Tundra.

4. Schumacher... (who's that) who cares...

3. Subaru is an excellent company, but it's one of the big 3 of Japan... does it really matter in what order it falls? Honda makes HIGH QUALITY vehicles. Yes, they're boring! But, I think Honda's future will diverge more into Robotics & Aerospace, before it injects more excitement into their cars.

2. Good riddance to Mercury --- boring brand! Ford/Lincoln... why do you need the "gapper" of Mercury. Get rid of it & focus on the other 2.

1. Good for Hyundai/Kia. Show me another company that's changed a stereo-type/image of their complete vehicle line in such a short time... you can't! Now, let's see if the new cars hold up over time.

[ggemigniani]

Toyota has decades of experience building cars and trucks inside the same plant, (e.g the NUMMI plant in California that builds Corollas and Tacomas) so it would be no biggie for Toyota to build Tacomas alongside Tundras.

It's true Subaru is on a roll. Subaru's new Outback Station Wagon is selling like hotcakes - it has enormous ground clearance so buyers who might otherwise be leaning toward an SUV for good ground clearance will find the Outback meets that requirement plus offers a more sedan like ride than a SUV and better fuel economy.

[Geordybass]

I used to follow IL but I got kicked off of the forums and then it seems like they will belittle Toyota more and not get my approval lol!



I do think toyota does have to at least add some extra supports to the frame, especially in the rear and also use a stronger rust proofing and have them double coated. Otherwise, I live in Sunny ol' Cali(LA) so rust is not even an issue. But I do love the engine and transmission. I'd also want the gauge cluster from the Diesel Concept Tundra(AND A DIESEL Version TOO!) to be on it. It would also help for them to square the front end up just a bit and little minor details to make it look a bit more aggressive but not too overstyled...

Yota To Do List:
1.Improve frame structure and add a couple of leaf springs while at it.
2.Better Quality Control
3.Some Cosmetic Details

And We'll have not just the best truck, but the perfect truck!

[shooter2jim]

Pretty foolish statement. The first gen ran for 7 model years and it really couldn't be considered a serious competitor to any of the domestic 1/2 tons by any measure, but they sold enough to keep it alive. Toyota basically reached their goal with MY2007 sales during a period of $3.50-$5.00/gal. gas prices, which says a lot. Then the economy tanked in 2008 and 2009 and everyone's sales slumped, not just Toyotas. In case that guy hadn't noticed, if the socialist-in-chief hadn't used OUR money to bail out GM and Dodge, their 1/2 tons would already be dead. Now that GM and Dodge have a huge infusion of our money for advertising and product development, they can stay in the game. Ford's in relatively decent shape and they can sell trucks based on reputation alone. Combine that with a model redesign and some genius advertising strategy in getting Mike Rowe as a spokesman, and that definitely hasn't helped Tundra sales.

Despite the revival of the other brands and all of their misleading advertising, Tundra still has the best power package out there. I think Toyota shot their wad on the initial advertising budget for the Tundra and now there's no money for decent promotion and advertising. They spent millions on top of millions on glitzy but very impractical advertising with their initial campaign. Who pulls 10k up a spiral ramp inside a tunnel of flame? Attention grabbing maybe, but they really didn't prove the Tundra could do things the others couldn't. Where were the head to head comparison ads? The simple ads comparing the brake rotors, transmissions, etc, I thought were the most effective and had the best return on investment, by far. Now the competition has caught up and Tundra can't point to one feature they have that's better than anyone else's. And since GM and Dodge are still allowed to run ads that mislead the public into thinking that their big V8's make big hp but still get 20mpg while doing it, the Tundra has a big uphill battle. But anyone who thinks that Toyota is just going to spend $1B on a plant, then 3 years later kill the vehicle it was built to produce is kind of looney.

[canddmeyer]

Six co-workers have first gen Tundra's, but no second gen's. Everyone says they're too large and wish Toyota had kept the Dakota sized Tundra. For now they're keeping what they got, but just haven't a clue as to what the replacement might be, and they definitely don't want a Ford, Dodge, or GM product. Maybe Toyota should have kept the first gen Tundra as it was, and named the fullsized something else. Reading other blogs potential buyers constantly hammer the Tundra for the interior and the bumpy ride, so maybe an early redesign will happen to address these issues.

To me it's the best 1/2 ton powertrain combination out there, especially for towing. Still, I bought a Ram. I just couldn't pass up a fairly well equipped 4x4 for $28,000. Hopefully Dodge will be around awhile, and for the rest of you hopefully the Tundra will too.

[Celly]

Toyota is weird about what they do. So, who knows. Really, I'm surprised that Lexus has not picked up on the chassis and built some uber luxo-barge out of it.

But in a world of down sizing, the tundra is a really odd vehicle for Toyota to have on its lots. But the tacoma fits right in. (And people love the tacoma -- compared to the ranger and colorado)

That being said, Toyota has a ton of money in it's new Texas Plant. I see them taking one more swipe at the Tundra...

Really, I think the Tundra's biggest problem is that it drivability is overly refined. It is a truck that doesn't feel like a truck when it's not doing truck things... And I think that scares 'Manly-men' when they test drive it...

Really Toyota needs to do a few things to save the Tundra. They need to offer more options that people look for in full sized trucks that say 'This is a work truck' -- ie, Larger gas Tanks, and different diff ratios. My neighbor explained to me that the smaller tank is the reason he didn't buy the Tundra -- Since his F-150 will easily drink 20 Gallons of gas in a day in 4WL on back trails.

Also -- They need to come out with a factory supercharged version that pretty much bolts on every TRD part. The fact that they haven't done that yet makes me wonder about their long term faith in the 5.7 w/ a supercharger. A truck like this will bring people into show rooms.

Finally, they need to better educate and excite dealers on the trucks. I find it odd that the dealers will spend more time trying to sell 5 Yaris's than 1 Tundra. Almost like they don't care.

[Art64]

If Toyota kills the Tundra then, it is a major defeat for Japanese truck manufacturers here in the U.S. market. Titan has the same prediction, too. I like the reliability of the product and is a big reason for me in buying the Tundra. If I wanted a truck to be modded extensively, I would get a truck from the other 3. 5 Auto Industry Predictions for 2010 | Tundra Headquarters

[ggemigniani]

I think the Tundra will be around for along time because it has made inroads into the rural upper Midwestern farm work truck market which until 2007m was totally dominated by the Big Three. Prior to 2007 rural upper midwesterners refused to buy any Japanese vehicle but now it's rather commonplace to see Tundras hauling hay and other farm items in the small farm towns
of the Dakotas, Minnesota, Iowa, etc.

Another area where I commonly see Tundras is on road / water pipe / utility line type contruction project worksites. Here again, contractors used to buy the Big Three almost exclusively and now a sizable chunk of them are buying Tundras. So no matter what the price of gasoline, there will continue to be a market for big trucks and Toyota has the only reliable and durable big truck.

[GOOD_LIFE]

Here's my .02

I think it is still the best eng/tranny combo.
-GM- 6.2 drinks premium. If I'm drinking premium it's cuz I got a blower or a chip
-Dodge- still needs a gear
-Ford- We'll see what they do in the next couple months but I've heard the new 6spd could use a lil tuning
-Nissan- Not bad but they need more hp and another gear

Are there any better stock brakes than ours? I'm sure some are close but I don't think so.

I sure do like the beefy rearend and huge bearings they put on our trucks.

And, for what it is, it get GREAT gas mileage. About the same as 3 other GM 5.3's I know of but with way more power.

It was said before but I wish Toyota would stand behind these trucks a lil more, eg: tin can tailgates anyone.

I don't even know what to say about the bed bounce issue but I don't like it. Our trucks don't ride bad but you know when you hit some rough road you feel the BOINGINGINGINGING.

These are competitive trucks and they raised the bar for the industry.

Please stop comparing what BANKRUPT companies do with my tax money to prove a point. They went bankrupt because they make bad decisions. The desisions they make now are not going to change my view of them. I grew up with bowties and will never by them again.

I'm sure Toyota would've loved to have sold more trucks but the comparison of their numbers to domestics isn't as accurate as it would appear.
-Domestic manufacturer's include 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks in their production numbers. Do they not?
-Fleet sales contracts can last for multiple years and help manufacturers ride through this recession.
-Didn't all truck manufacturers' production numbers take a hit recently?
-I'm sure millions of dollars of bailout money, that you didn't earn, put towards adverstising has a positive effect on sales.
-Has Toyota ever relied on truck sales as much as domestic companies?

Toyota has grown to be a great automotive manufacturer. They are profitable and maintain good, overall marketshare. They aren't perfect, but hey, they didn't go bankrupt. I think I'll try to keep the speculating on how advertise, choose production numbers, select incentives, build what vehicles where etc. etc. to the people who do that for a living. Wouldn't mind seeing a lil more advertising though.

[erg801]

May be due to the fact that the vehicle turnover rate is higher for a domestic vs foreign vehicle. I know I plan to keep my Tundra through 200,000 miles if possilbe.

[PoPo]

For what it's worth, the Tundra won MotorTrend's "Truck of the Year" for both 2000 & 2008. Beginning with the Gen-1 in 2000, Toyota built the Tundra in Princeton, Indiana, with approx 65% Domestic Parts content. The Gen-2, launched in 2007, was built at both the Princeton & San Antonio Plants (until 2008 when all production was moved to Texas), with a Domestic Parts content of approx 80%. Many "would-be-smearers" of the Tundra are unaware of those build facts. Many people also don't realize that Toyota built a large Health-Care facility to serve the workers & their families (near the San Antonio plant). Still think it's not an American truck?

And, as far as "killing" the Tundra...let's take a look at yearly production numbers:


2000= 100,445
2001= 108,863
2002= 99,333
2003= 101,316
2004= 112,484
2005= 126,529
2006= 124,508
2007= 196,555
2008= 137,249
--------------
Average= 123,031

Toyota never proclaimed they would take over the full-size truck market. Their numbers have been pretty consistent over the years, and so a modest (and almost reached) goal of 200,000 units for the 2007 model year have shown to be pretty accurate. Now, obviously, 2007 was an anomaly of a year for Tundra sales, when considering the average. (Remove 2007 from the average, and it falls to 113,840).

So, if 2009 sales end up totaling 95,000... and considering the economy ... can you really call it a failure if 2009 sales are only 10k-20k below the average? Nope, not at all. Therefore, the notion that Toyota will "kill" the Tundra is thus absurd.

One point for me, and zero for the "idiot-Mechanic"..... Can I get a hallelujah brothers & sisters... oh, and some Rep points for my research!