New 2014 tundra

[Time4change]

I agree Dodge Ram trucks don't have the best reputation for reliability, but they do outsell the Tundra by a significant margin which reflects a certain reality about their product. Even though Toyota's R&D budget has to be huge compared to Ram, Ram still manages to commit tons of R&D money towards their trucks with solid, objective drivetrain numbers to show for it. The stakes are HUGE. 1/2 of all vehicles sold in the US are trucks (all segments).

I agree Toyota's got the reliability card down. However, one could argue whether Toyota spent so much money making the Tundra reliable, that after 7 years they only had enough money left to redesign the grill and interior. As much as I hate to say it, me being a huge Tundra fan and all, it's awful frickin' hard to downplay objective performance numbers like these for the Ram 1500: 25 mpg 305 hp Pentastar engines, 8-speed transmissions, and 28-30 mpg 1/2 ton diesels. At least one of these should have been in a 2014 Tundra brochure

Just curious:

1) What are the actual 1/2 ton vs 1/2 ton sales numbers Ram vs Tundra....and

2)Any links on that R&D budget??? Fiat isn't exactly a small company.

[11Tundra]

Just curious:

1) What are the actual 1/2 ton vs 1/2 ton sales numbers Ram vs Tundra....and

2)Any links on that R&D budget??? Fiat isn't exactly a small company.

Ah, come on, time4change. If you got my point, you'd realize it's only a side point and not really the primary issue. Even if Toyota spent less than Ram on R&D and Tundra sold more trucks than Ram would it really change the primary point? You do get the primary point, right?

FWIW, if #1 and #2 are important to you then I'm sure you'll google it yourself (just like I did) and prove whatever point you're trying to make.

As always, Time4change, have a good one

[deviltundra]

toyota likes to make motor changes even if they dont come with a press release and complete make over.
they are either not telling us something yet with this mild face lift, or they are going to see if others fall flat from it first.
either way i dont think you can count them out!

[doubleds65]

toyota likes to make motor changes even if they dont come with a press release and complete make over.
they are either not telling us something yet with this mild face lift, or they are going to see if others fall flat from it first.
either way i dont think you can count them out!

I agree, IMO when the tundra does change the power train it is goin to b a big deal, they will come out with something other truck makers won't b able to keep up with, just like they did with 2nd gen. Toyota sticks with with what is good like the Tacoma & tundra. It took a long time before the Tacoma goer redesigned, IMO no other small truck can compare & same with the tundra, no other 1/2 ton can compare. So what if dodge is goin to have a diesel in a 1/2 ton, that is what they have to do to compete with the tundra n that being said only the motor will compare but nothing else will. A diesel in a 1/2 ton would b nice but its basically useless, the only reason for it is better gas mileage (maybe). I love the tundra, so much that I can b patient enough to wait for the features because it will b good, exciting and well worth it.

Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using AutoGuide.Com Free App

[Time4change]

Here r the 2012 final sales figures as per PUTC all f series 645,316 tundras 101,621. Ihave been true blue for past 30yrs but I like the looks of the new tundra and will give it a drive before I buy a new truck, I think the toyo drive train is every bit as good as ford or any of the big 3, I think the proof will be in toyo pricing will be very interesting. I am more looking to buy the 4.6 anybody here have experience with it I do not pull much of anything am looking ot up mileage a bit???

"F-series" means everything from 150, 250, 350, 450 chassis cab, diesel, dually etc.....

That is not a 1/2 ton to 1/2 comparison.

[Time4change]

Ah, come on, time4change. If you got my point, you'd realize it's only a side point and not really the primary issue. Even if Toyota spent less than Ram on R&D and Tundra sold more trucks than Ram would it really change the primary point? You do get the primary point, right?

FWIW, if #1 and #2 are important to you then I'm sure you'll google it yourself (just like I did) and prove whatever point you're trying to make.

As always, Time4change, have a good one

LOL....I forgot that TS was the place where anything can be said with 0 accountability.

You have a better one.....

[11Tundra]

LOL....I forgot that TS was the place where anything can be said with 0 accountability.

You have a better one.....

Thank you, Time4change. You didn't need to remind me I have a better one

[11Tundra]

toyota likes to make motor changes even if they dont come with a press release and complete make over.
they are either not telling us something yet with this mild face lift, or they are going to see if others fall flat from it first.
either way i dont think you can count them out!

You could be right, deviltundra. I hope you are. For me, the 2014 Tundra reveal said a lot by saying so little. I'm disappointed, but trying to remain cautiously optimistic.

[Breathing Borla]

I agree Dodge Ram trucks don't have the best reputation for reliability, but they do outsell the Tundra by a significant margin which reflects a certain reality about their product.

it really doesn't say much at all about their product IMO. They sell more because most of the american truck buying public still sees the RAM as an american truck and the tundra as a "jap" truck, it really is that simple. Also, because they have 3/4, 1 ton, and up.

Trust me, I live in a large market and go to all sorts of job sites, ect. tons of conversations about how my tundra seems nice but they "just couldn't drive one", because it's a toyota or on Union sites, believe it or not the unions will not allow them to drive them.

most of them don't even know that the tundra makes so much power. I tell them how much HP it has and they say " in a toyota"???

American truck buyers just don't want a "foreign" truck, which is ironic since we have this new fancy FIAT with grill shutters, ect that everybody seems to be so impressed with.

I say, crap on that, give me a tundra 5.7, yes with no upgrades and the "outdated" 381 hp / 401 torque and the perfectly geared 10.5 rear and 4.30.

they can keep the grill shutters, fancy V6, air ride suspension, ect. More stuff to break and not needed in a 1/2 ton truck.

[11Tundra]

it really doesn't say much at all about their product IMO. They sell more because most of the american truck buying public still sees the RAM as an american truck and the tundra as a "jap" truck, it really is that simple. Also, because they have 3/4, 1 ton, and up.

Trust me, I live in a large market and go to all sorts of job sites, ect. tons of conversations about how my tundra seems nice but they "just couldn't drive one", because it's a toyota or on Union sites, believe it or not the unions will not allow them to drive them.

most of them don't even know that the tundra makes so much power. I tell them how much HP it has and they say " in a toyota"???

American truck buyers just don't want a "foreign" truck, which is ironic since we have this new fancy FIAT with grill shutters, ect that everybody seems to be so impressed with.

I say, crap on that, give me a tundra 5.7, yes with no upgrades and the "outdated" 381 hp / 401 torque and the perfectly geared 10.5 rear and 4.30.

they can keep the grill shutters, fancy V6, air ride suspension, ect. More stuff to break and not needed in a 1/2 ton truck.

Wow, Breathing Borla, you came out and said what I've been politely been trying to say, sometimes directly, mostly indirectly, post-after-post--you let the cat-out-of-the-bag. In one of my previous posts I said most Big 3 truck owners would never consider a Tundra even if it looked and felt like a $5000 hooker. Why? Simply because there's still some latent prejudice against some "foreign" products. It's an image thing. Toyota realizes this very unfortunate fact and changed their sales expectations accordingly--they've hit the classic "glass ceiling". Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, it spells less effort by Toyota to make the Tundra as good as it can be, to make it stand-out and compete directly with the Big 3 like they did in 2007--they'll think twice before trying that approach again. It is what it is. As for this latent prejudice I speak of, I speak from personal experience so I know how powerful and insidious it can be.

Again, Breathing Borla, thanks for speaking your mind. Have an awesome weekend!

[spoon059]

I say, crap on that, give me a tundra 5.7, yes with no upgrades and the "outdated" 381 hp / 401 torque and the perfectly geared 10.5 rear and 4.30.

they can keep the grill shutters, fancy V6, air ride suspension, ect. More stuff to break and not needed in a 1/2 ton truck.

Well said. Its hilarious that just 6 months ago everybody here was in love with this truck and transmission, and suddenly now their are people ready to sell their "piece of crap" and buy a Big 3 truck. I can't seem to pinpoint the exact moment that we decided we would rather have a handful more horsepower in exchange for comfort, reliability and lower price. The Tundra is still the only full size truck available that offers the biggest engine in every configuration from the barebones worktruck up to the highest optioned truck. GM requires you buy the most expensive trim package to get the 6.2L V-8. The Ecoboost doesn't get nearly the great gas mileage they claimed and still has lower HP and torque, although that torque does come at a lower RPM range. Dodge has the Hemi which puts out a little more HP, but has less torque and significantly lower payload and tow ratings because they went after the softer suspension.

Last time I checked, my 5.7 still puts out a sh-t ton of power and pulls my RV like a dream! I have way more miles on my truck than I thought I would because I have a company car I can drive, 2 motorcycles and the wife's car... but none of those (except the motorcycles!!!) are as fun to drive as the truck. I don't have to pay for gas for the company car, and the wifes Camry gets almost twice the mileage as the Tundra... and I still drive the truck everywhere!

Dollar for dollar, the Tundra was and still is the best option for me in regards to interior space, engine power, tow capacity and sheer fun. For those that are so devastated about Tundra keeping the same engines... I guess I'm sorry for your loss. I still think our engines are among the best, if not the best in half tons right now. I think Toyota set the standard and other manufacturers are still trying to play catch up. I would like to see Toyota continue to improve the engine, but that would be mainly to get better gas mileage, not neccessarily more power. Until then, I will continue to LOVE my Tundra and drive it way more than I intended to. Its still as great a truck as it was 3 years ago when I drove it off the lot.

[Breathing Borla]

Wow, Breathing Borla, you came out and said what I've been politely been trying to say, sometimes directly, mostly indirectly, post-after-post--you let the cat-out-of-the-bag. In one of my previous posts I said most Big 3 truck owners would never consider a Tundra even if it looked and felt like a $5000 hooker. Why? Simply because there's still some latent prejudice against some "foreign" products. It's an image thing. Toyota realizes this very unfortunate fact and changed their sales expectations accordingly--they've hit the classic "glass ceiling". Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, it spells less effort by Toyota to make the Tundra as good as it can be, to make it stand-out and compete directly with the Big 3 like they did in 2007--they'll think twice before trying that approach again. It is what it is. As for this latent prejudice I speak of, I speak from personal experience so I know how powerful and insidious it can be.

Again, Breathing Borla, thanks for speaking your mind. Have an awesome weekend!

thanks, I call it how I see it.

I been around here way to long to sugar coat things

[Time4change]

Wow, Breathing Borla, you came out and said what I've been politely been trying to say, sometimes directly, mostly indirectly, post-after-post--you let the cat-out-of-the-bag. In one of my previous posts I said most Big 3 truck owners would never consider a Tundra even if it looked and felt like a $5000 hooker. Why? Simply because there's still some latent prejudice against some "foreign" products. It's an image thing. Toyota realizes this very unfortunate fact and changed their sales expectations accordingly--they've hit the classic "glass ceiling". Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, it spells less effort by Toyota to make the Tundra as good as it can be, to make it stand-out and compete directly with the Big 3 like they did in 2007--they'll think twice before trying that approach again. It is what it is. As for this latent prejudice I speak of, I speak from personal experience so I know how powerful and insidious it can be.



Again, Breathing Borla, thanks for speaking your mind. Have an awesome weekend!

But....but....but .....that was not the only thing you were saying.

You also continually criticized Toy for not spending the money on R&D and mentioned how frustrated the poor engineers must have been for having "0 dollars to spend", among other things.

You also claimed to have never made a direct comparison to other makes and then bring up how wonderful Ram is for doing so much with so little (still would like to see where you found their R&D budget.)

What I find a tad interesting is you rightfully praise BB for the same thing I've been writing.....Everything from the skewed sales numbers to the fact the drivetrain is more than competitive. Oh well, glad you see his point(s).

Just an FYI regarding your prejudice statement: (which I don't disagree with......and has been one of my "points" in why Toy is attempting a different approach this go around via styling)

Our founding father, who has for some strange reason taken this incredibly personal......even going as far as apologizing for the new Tundra, has gone on record writing that those prejudices have nothing to do with sales numbers.

[Lon]

In a story that caught my attention, JD Power & associates wrote that the 2014 Tundra is simply an update and not a redesign.

2014 Toyota Tundra Updated, Not Redesigned | J.D. Power

I think its fair to say that I believe the Tundra has an image problem in America, one that Toyota has been unable to change since its introduction over a decade ago. The question is what are they going to do about it? Well perhaps they don't agree with me or perhaps they don't care. But in either case, I'd sure like to know. I'm offering to put the power of this community behind some plan to help Toyota market and improve the Tundra's image. But for that to happen, Toyota needs to first establish some sort of dialog with me. Lets hope they're watching.

[Time4change]

In a story that caught my attention, JD Power & associates wrote that the 2014 Tundra is simply an update and not a redesign.

2014 Toyota Tundra Updated, Not Redesigned | J.D. Power

I think its fair to say that I believe the Tundra has an image problem in America, one that Toyota has been unable to change since its introduction over a decade ago. The question is what are they going to do about it? Well perhaps they don't agree with me or perhaps they don't care. But in either case, I'd sure like to know. I'm offering to put the power of this community behind some plan to help Toyota market and improve the Tundra's image. But for that to happen, Toyota needs to first establish some sort of dialog with me. Lets hope they're watching.

Excuse me for being redundant on some of these "points", but

IMHO, the 1st Gen was never a full size truck.....always referred to as 7/8's size.....

The '07, while stomping the comp. mechanically had/has a very polarizing shape.......it was called everything from "bulldog" to "Kirby" and many other less "flattering" names.

The interior was never a hit.

Many people, me included, easily overlooked the arguably subjective cosmetic shortcomings because the drivetrain/brakes/stoutness etc.....overcame those.

I say give the new styling/upgrade a chance and see where it takes the Tundra.

Unlike you, me and a few others are not ashamed of the current drivetrain and welcome the refresh.

Obviously we all wanted more HP and some wanted more gadgets, but I'm not declaring the Tundra dead just yet.........Some of us are willing to crunch the numbers a year from now to make the final determination.