Just checked out the spy pics in Motor Trend page 18 and 19. Looks like a Dodge Ram double cab covered with a body bra. Seems like a pretty small cargo bed for such a large truck though. I also agree that they are getting into the heavy duty truck market a little late Personally the current size Tundra has more than enough power, towing and cago capacity for my needs and would not be interested in a larger model unless it got a lot better mileage than my 05 Tundra 4x4. It should be a great truck though for someone who really needs the extra towing capacity. I was talking to a guy a little while ago that said he would have loved to buy a Toyota Tundra as he likes Toyotas but the Tundra did not have enough towing capacity for him and he bought a Denalli instead and is not happy with it because it rattles like a tin can A hybrid truck may interest me in the future BUT the only problem with them is the high price. They cost alot more than an equal non hybrid vehicle. I can just imagine what a hybrid Tundra would cost, buy the time you would recoup your gas savings over the initial cost it would be time to buy a new truck.
Toyo will surely make any new Tundra engine more fuel efficient, even if it's bigger. I hope they keep the size in check, it's almost perfect now. And the consumer groups told them so. Toyo made the Tundra a lil' smaller on purpose. The next model will be just as purposeful. They will take every negative the domestic models have and create a positive for the next tundra. I'm hooked.
The reason I bought an 05 AC SR5 2wd instead of waiting for the 07 is I don't want a truck that big, it will cost more , use more gas, to get the bigger V8 you will have to pay way more and this new model will be much heavier.
I wanted a fast,ultra smooth,and well built(end of model life are the best built vehicles)and I got it.
I did exactly the same thing! I have even contacted my dealer (who has been super!) about trading the 05' for an identically equipped 06' at the end of the 06' model year. If gas prices remain high and demand continues to slip you ought to be able to pick up an 06' right. However, I realize that the value of my 05' (I sell them myself) will be falling as well. I love the size, style, and performance of the current Tundra. I sold an 03' for the 05' and the biggest improvement was the 5-speed tranny (although the 03' shifted very smooth as well). I get a lot of compliments on the Tundra as there are not that many in our area because the nearest dealer is 50 miles away. We have Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, and Nissan but no Toyota dealer. As I stated in an earlier post, I think they may be coming out with the right truck at the wrong time or the wrong truck at the right time with the 07' if it is in the size and power range others have discussed. But, Toyota's marketing research staff is not stupid and I'm sure they have a much better handle on the market than I do.
If the Taco becomes the new Tundra (which it could with the 4.7 and maybe the 5.x option), and the Tundra gets BIG...then there's a missing spot in the lineup again - a truck like my '95 where you can pick the thing up for $10K, it's bare-bones, small, decent mileage and will simply last forever (this one's not mine):
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2003 TOYOTA Sequoia SR5: 89K, TRD cat-back, fueled by Chevron; M1 oil/filter
2000 TOYOTA Epic S22: Powered by Lexus 1UZ w/VVTi, Chevron/M1
1995 TOYOTA Hilux: 206K, any gas, any filter, first 100K Castrol Syntec, GTX since
Show me a Japanese company that marks there cars up 10K .... It doesn't happen. Most have a margin of less than 3K !!!! Acura has as low as $500.00 and expects the sales person to make it up in either volume or accessory sales ! Only Domestics have that high of mark up.
This is absolutely unrealistic, especially in the case of Acura where they don't have the volume to "make it up".
And your quote about watching other people negotiate better deals than the employee pricing is a joke. As a former FoMoCo employee who called on dealers and saw ALL the numbers, the employee pricing is real and is actually subsidized by the Manufacturer. Granted nowadays with the internet and the ultra competitive marketplace it's not uncommon to get a deal for $500 over invoice or even invoice, but give me a break.
Granted nowadays with the internet and the ultra competitive marketplace it's not uncommon to get a deal for $500 over invoice or even invoice, but give me a break.
You can do a lot better than buying at invoice....if there's a factory rebate.
The current size Tundra is pretty much the new Tacoma. If only they offered it with a V8... That would be a great truck.
I'm sure the new Tundra will replace the current one. They might overlap for a short time, but they won't be producing both long term.
Good point. Planned on getting an '05 Taco, but was able to get a V8 TRD Tundra Access cab for LESS $. Was amazing to me - bigger engine and bed, better ride and cheaper. Friends' V6 Taco's are not beating my MPG by much anyhow (I get 16 city, they get 17-18 city).
If the V8 fits in a 4Runner, I'd bet that it will fit in the Taco. I think that Toyota's only holding back on V8 Taco idea to preserve Tundra sales until the new Tundra comes out ........
You can do a lot better than buying at invoice....if there's a factory rebate.
Of course. But you can't "negotiate" a rebate. The dealer sells the vehicle somewhere near invoice for example, and then if there's a rebate the Manuf. pays the for the rebate. Either way the dealer is selling the vehicle for the same price/profit and it just depends on whether there is extra money in the form of a rebate. In this case you might end up somewhere in the neighborhood or even below an "employee" price.
Point being the dealer can only go so low before he's losing money. And that threshold is above employee price (at Ford anyway).
P.S. There are sometimes rebates called "dealer cash" which don't have to be disclosed to the public. These "silent" rebates can be used to sweeten up a deal on a sliding scale since the dealer doesn't have to reveal them.
And again you are talking about ford mo co NOT Toyota or especially not Toyota in the Gulf States region where I am !!!! Ford has multiple "invoice" prices some they will show to you and some they wont. And the 2004 RSX only had $750.00 of mark up over invoice ! The dealers finally complained enough to get them to raise it up to about $2k.
Maybe Toyota is different enough to change the equation.
When it comes to Ford I'm only talking about true invoice as it's stated on the MSO. Not some of the "fake" invoices some dealers print up. It doesn't happen much anymore since you can see the same invoice just by going to Ford's website.
The bottom line is, a Ford dealer can't sell at or below "employee price" unless they discount the vehicle heavily AND there are rebates. I'm not sure what Toyota's specific numbers are, maybe it's a lot different.
I reread your original quote and to clarify. Some DEALER employees get an employee price that the dealer offers to it's employees and can vary from dealer to dealer. But actual CORPORATE employees get a fixed employee price that is stamped on every invoice in it's own little box. Corporate discounts are usually much better than what a dealer offers its employees. Like I said in the case of Ford it's BELOW dealer invoice and the Manufacturer subsidizes the deals. Yes the dealer makes a few bucks but not much. Of course it's a captive market for those customers. Again I'm talking about Ford but I'm willing to bet that as far as employee pricing Toyota CORPORATE employees get the same deal, no matter which dealer their buying at.
* I'm sure it's happened on a few select vehicles that dealers are dying to get rid of. But it doesn't happen on a regular basis as your original quote seemed to be suggesting. No business can sell below cost for any period of time and stay in business.
intersting tidbit I just read in the new 4wheel and offroad and they said this info come from Automotive News:
"Toyota: Tundra will be redesigned for'07 to be a 'True Competitor' to the F-150, says the magazine. A heavy-duty version, possibly assembled by Hino, is due in '09"
If that is true, this is a big dissapointment and I am sure others will feel that same about this timeline...
You are correct to a point.... In Gulf States Toyota they will sell there corporate demos below Dealer cost to friends and family. Lexus employees (which I am) get a special promotional lease after years of employment and certain levels of training. GST will never run the employee pricing perks that Domestics ran. My main point to this was that they do not mark up there vehicles to mark them down the way ford,chevy and dodge do. You have to admit the domestics are more known for "high grossing" someone ,especially people with bad credit, more than imports.
intersting tidbit I just read in the new 4wheel and offroad and they said this info come from Automotive News:
"Toyota: Tundra will be redesigned for'07 to be a 'True Competitor' to the F-150, says the magazine. A heavy-duty version, possibly assembled by Hino, is due in '09"
If that is true, this is a big dissapointment and I am sure others will feel that same about this timeline...
Not only will you be disappointed so will Toyota as they will surely lose their @$$ on that move. But, they are a big company and can absorb the loss in market share that they will experience. With the higher gas prices, many who buy trucks for occassional utility use and primarily for basic transportation will rethink their decision. Those who use trucks for their primary purpose-i.e.-construction, agriculture, industry won't switch to Toyota whose base prices are usually higher than the competition. I firmly believe they had a real "niche" with the current Tundra and their older Taco and now will simply become "one of the crowd."
Not only will you be disappointed so will Toyota as they will surely loss their @$$ on that move. But, they are a big company and can absorb the loss in market share that they will experience. With the higher gas prices, many who buy trucks for occassional utility use and primarily for basic transportation will rethink their decision. Those who use trucks for their primary purpose-i.e.-construction, agriculture, industry won't switch to Toyota whose base prices are usually higher than the competition. I firmly believe they had a real "niche" with the current Tundra and their older Taco and now will simply become "one of the crowd."
I disagree, Toyota sees and opportunity to tap into one of the US's largest segments and in order to tap into that large segment they need a real full size truck. I think more guys would have went with a Tundra if it had real full size capabilites but it doesn't. I know a few farmers who love the Toyota trucks but they need to tow and haul stuff which is why they have to have their heavy duty Fords and Chev's. My cousin is a cattle farmer and has a F-250, he thinks it's a piece of sh*t, but he needs a truck that can handle what he puts it through. Price is not the concern, capability is. If Toyota made a real F-150/250 fighter I think a lot of guys would jump ship and join the Toyota faithful. My cousin would I know that.
I disagree, Toyota sees and opportunity to tap into one of the US's largest segments and in order to tap into that large segment they need a real full size truck. I think more guys would have went with a Tundra if it had real full size capabilites but it doesn't. I know a few farmers who love the Toyota trucks but they need to tow and haul stuff which is why they have to have their heavy duty Fords and Chev's. My cousin is a cattle farmer and has a F-250, he thinks it's a piece of sh*t, but he needs a truck that can handle what he puts it through. Price is not the concern, capability is. If Toyota made a real F-150/250 fighter I think a lot of guys would jump ship and join the Toyota faithful. My cousin would I know that.
I agree that Toyota "saw" an opportunity to tap into the "real full size" truck market (however, I never thought of my Tundra as anything less than "full size"). However, that "opportunity" has shifted significantly in the past 6 months. If this is just a temporary sequence of events-i.e.-rising gas prices, rising interest rates, rising insurance rates, and an increase in the general level of prices, Toyota's strategy will work well for them. If it is longer run in nature, then my contention that "right truck at the wrong time" will probably hold true. It is my understanding that bringing a new model to market takes over three years from drawing board to final assembly. I'm sure Toyota, nor anyone else from academics to business, assumed the current economic environment would be as it is currently. I'm sure that Toyota's entry into this market segment will be a superior product than currently offered by the competition. But, take out the "john doe suburbia" buyer and the market that is left becomes somewhat more narrow and smaller in scope. Also, if the economic conditions continue for any lenght of time, those in construction and agriculture will slow down their purchasing as well--IMO!
Seems like a pretty small cargo bed for such a large truck though.
I also agree that they are getting into the heavy duty truck market a little late
A hybrid truck may interest me in the future BUT the only problem with them is the high price. They cost alot more than an equal non hybrid vehicle. I can just imagine what a hybrid Tundra would cost, buy the time you would recoup your gas savings over the initial cost it would be time to buy a new truck.
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